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So when did Kishi really decide to switch to NH?


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#21 tricksie

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 01:08 AM

Just thinking about this today....

 

I think the decision to go NH came just before the beginning of the war arc. Because up until then, when Naruto was seeing everyone on the battlefield and he saw Sakura alone, everything was still moving along believeably. 

 

But that was the last truly NS moment. From then on, every Sakura panel got equal Hinata time. And Hinata got more lines, and her interactions became more and more overtly romantic. 

 

The decision may have been made sometime before the war arc, but wasn't put into place until after the start of the war. Hinata before then is simply nonexistent in the storyline. 

 

After the Kage Summit arc, everything got really disjointed and scattered. That's when elements of the story stopped making sense, characters were introduced, backstories were explored then resolved, all just to bloat the plot and drag it on. I think the decision was made as to how to end it, and then Kishi just went on autopilot till it was over.



#22 rocci

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 04:21 AM

Just thinking about this today....
 
I think the decision to go NH came just before the beginning of the war arc. Because up until then, when Naruto was seeing everyone on the battlefield and he saw Sakura alone, everything was still moving along believeably. 
 
But that was the last truly NS moment. From then on, every Sakura panel got equal Hinata time. And Hinata got more lines, and her interactions became more and more overtly romantic. 
 
The decision may have been made sometime before the war arc, but wasn't put into place until after the start of the war. Hinata before then is simply nonexistent in the storyline. 
 
After the Kage Summit arc, everything got really disjointed and scattered. That's when elements of the story stopped making sense, characters were introduced, backstories were explored then resolved, all just to bloat the plot and drag it on. I think the decision was made as to how to end it, and then Kishi just went on autopilot till it was over.

There are no meaningful NS interaction in war arc. An arc that last for four years.

That's why I said in my previous post that (I believe) kishi make decision in 2011.
Why he choose that? Because :
1. Sakura bad reception over her confession.
2. Hinata rise on popularity.

In part 1 all major NS interaction come from naruto.
In part 2 all major NS interaction come from sakura.
Why kishi need to do that? Because naruto already love sakura.
That's why there are no NS interaction after kage summit arc, because it will lead to sakura confrontation about sakura feeling to naruto aka naruto confession.

#23 Aizen-Sama

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 04:53 AM

I hate Hinata in the war arc. She is such a homewrecker! >.< Her constant thinking of Naruto was so annoying and unnecessary but I believed NH was sealed at 615. You just can't ignore a character dying for a pairing like that. I did get hopes up again with Minato's girlfriend comment but Sh*tmoto was just kittening with us.
Ugh. I've never felt so scammed with a pairing. >.> Kishimoto is disgusting for playing with shippers.

#24 questdrivencollie

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 05:05 AM

I mainly hate that it took over the entire plot and the ending. Like, I expected an endgame pairing. But I didn't expect the entire plot to be centered around it or change things for it's sake, especially since the story had never centered around shipping.


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#25 Aizen-Sama

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 05:30 AM

I mainly hate that it took over the entire plot and the ending. Like, I expected an endgame pairing. But I didn't expect the entire plot to be centered around it or change things for it's sake, especially since the story had never centered around shipping.


Stupid Hinata took over Sakura's spot. She had to end up with that trash Sasuke. It makes me so mad!!!! NH only happened because readers didn't like Sakura enough. P*sses me off.

Edited by Aizen-Sama, 15 January 2015 - 05:31 AM.


#26 questdrivencollie

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 05:33 AM

Stupid Hinata got Sakura's spot. She had to end up with that trash Sasuke. It makes me so mad!!!! NH only happened because readers didn't like Sakura. P*sses me off.

I don't disagree, but I wouldn't have been happy with simply an NS version of this ending. I was a fan of the plot, too.

And yeah, Sakura and Sasuke...I don't get what's even appealing about that pairing. :|


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#27 Aizen-Sama

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 05:37 AM

I don't disagree, but I wouldn't have been happy with simply an NS version of this ending. I was a fan of the plot, too.
And yeah, Sakura and Sasuke...I don't get what's even appealing about that pairing. :|


NS moments wouldn't have been unnatural since they already had development. I freakin hate sasusaku. Sakura did not deserve to end up with a criminal. This is the first series I've read where the heroine is truly treated like trash.

#28 questdrivencollie

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 05:55 AM

What I mean is I disliked how the ending was nothing but pairings and their babies. Major plot points were left unaddressed. Instead of a conclusive ending there was fan service for the part of the fanbase that they perceived to be the largest.
If the ending was the same but with NS, I would have enjoyed the NS part surely, but still be wondering where the rest of the plot went.
It's true that the ending wouldn't be quite so screwed with NS since it fit with the themes and no outside explanations or retcons would have been needed. But there was so much more wrong with the ending than the pairings.
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#29 Aizen-Sama

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 07:03 AM

What I mean is I disliked how the ending was nothing but pairings and their babies. Major plot points were left unaddressed. Instead of a conclusive ending there was fan service for the part of the fanbase that they perceived to be the largest.
If the ending was the same but with NS, I would have enjoyed the NS part surely, but still be wondering where the rest of the plot went.
It's true that the ending wouldn't be quite so screwed with NS since it fit with the themes and no outside explanations or retcons would have been needed. But there was so much more wrong with the ending than the pairings.


Like NYC Konoha and alien SaiIno child? XD And abusive father Naruto? Kikitten also forgot to explain what happened to Orochimaru. And why the hell did Tsunade look like a teenager? The epilogue if filled with crap.

#30 Narufan85

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 03:08 PM

What I mean is I disliked how the ending was nothing but pairings and their babies. Major plot points were left unaddressed. Instead of a conclusive ending there was fan service for the part of the fanbase that they perceived to be the largest.
If the ending was the same but with NS, I would have enjoyed the NS part surely, but still be wondering where the rest of the plot went.
It's true that the ending wouldn't be quite so screwed with NS since it fit with the themes and no outside explanations or retcons would have been needed. But there was so much more wrong with the ending than the pairings.

 

Yup. It's like all the important themes and goals of the manga, as well as the important themes and goals of the characters themselves, are cast aside in order to pair everyone up and pop out babies for the advertisement that was chapter 700. It's like Kishi is telling us that the women in his narrative have no value beyond their ability to spawn the next generation, and the men are all left bland and unfulfilled.

Great message.



#31 Pix

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 02:54 AM

I don't disagree, but I wouldn't have been happy with simply an NS version of this ending. I was a fan of the plot, too.

And yeah, Sakura and Sasuke...I don't get what's even appealing about that pairing. :|

Agreed. Everything was just poorly handled, even the Naruto v. Sasuke, even the random Kaguya, everything was just a mess at the very end of this series. I would have accepted NH if Hinata was developed more, especially during the middle and not at the very end. I was (and still kinda am) a Sasuke and Sakura shipper, but I HATE canon Sasusaku with a boiling passion.  

 

The only Sasusaku that exists to me is in the realms of fanfiction.


Edited by Pix, 16 January 2015 - 02:55 AM.

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