Why do you ship?
#21
Posted 08 January 2012 - 08:47 AM
I don't remember why. I honestly don't.
I can't even remember why I started the series, and here I am following it with the greatest attention.
I guess I just like how the situation of the pairing works, how the story has been built up to this point, and how they fall in between the lines.... I guess it's because its addictive: like a Mexican soap opera XD. You get to know the characters, their lives, as if you knew a friend in real life. And so on x)
#22
Posted 08 January 2012 - 10:12 AM
And Tricksie, actually there has been a number of western animated shows with romantic theme. Disney movies of course. The first ship I vaguely recall shipping was Lady and the Tramp from the Disney movie of the same name. I was around 3 or so when I first saw that movie...
Slightly before that I also first saw the animated Beatles movie "Yellow Submarine" My favorite part of the movie was where a fictional John dances with a fictional Lucy to the song "Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds". (That movie made me a Beatle fan, which lead at 12, in 1978, to discovering how much John Lennon and Yoko Ono shared my dreams and ideals and becoming an ardent John and Yoko shipper- my one and only real life ship. While the title of the song LITSWD is inspired by a drawing John's older son Julian did as a 4 year old, the lyrics are all about John's budding romantic feelings for Yoko.)
The first US animated kids show that had romantic ships that I watched as a small child was the Archie show- based on the kids comic, with the mostly friendly rivalry of Betty and Veronica over Archie. I can't remember having a preference in that triangle, I think because I found Archie dull. I liked it better when the focus was just on Betty and Veronica's friendship. That show came on in 1969 and lasted until some time in the 1970's (I stopped watching after first grade... having moved onto more interesting shows...)
In Scooby Doo, which premiered around that time, Daphne and Fred are a couple, but I never was interested in either character, both were kind of dull
In the live action campy shows made for adults but also appealing to kids, in syndication rereuns in the early 1970's, I can recall vaguely shipping Batman and Catwoman and Robin and Barbara on Batman (still the version of Batman I like best!), and Morticia and Gomez in the Addams Family
Then comes the first dubbed anime I saw- Speed Racer. Not a strong shipper but I thought Speed and Trixie were okay. I was more a Trixie fan than anything else. While she was kind of a fangirlish girlfriend to Speed, she was so dramatically different from the female characters in American cartoons for kids. Trixie could hold her own in hand to hand combat, had a job flying a helicopter, and had no hesitation in speaking her mind. (No she wasn't quite to the tsundere type, but she was no helpless maiden either.)
It was hitting adolescence, I think, that made me truly start shipping. My first serious ships began when I was around 12 years old in the later part of 1978.
More later....
When you go to war, both sides lose totally- Yoko Ono
Remember, our hearts are one. Even when we are at war with each other, our hearts are always beating in unison- Yoko Ono 2009
#23
Posted 08 January 2012 - 03:48 PM
#24
Posted 08 January 2012 - 05:20 PM
Shaggy and Velma FTW, yo.
#25
Posted 08 January 2012 - 06:10 PM
#26
Posted 08 January 2012 - 08:31 PM
The soap opera model began on the radio in the 1930's as stories written by male writers (soaps, in the US, even today as the genre is nearly dead, still have mostly male writers, directors and producers....) to draw the interest of housewives dealing with the solitary boredom and drudgery of household cleaning tasks (so the show sponsors were mostly soap companies and other cleaning products- meant to increase sales for those products, thus the name "soap opera", the later because the storylines were over the top melodramatic and almost never had a long term positive outcome) This melodramatic negativism became more the case after the transition to TV in the 1950's and dramatically so in the 1970's (when the traditional housewife market dramatically declined as more than 50% of married women had full time jobs outside of the home.) The soaps shifted to storylines they believed would appeal to teenage and college age students of both genders- thus relationships became even more short term, sexuality was ramped up as was sexual violence- rapes, sexual assaults and harassment, etc... Disturbingly the sexual violence was usually glamorized and depicted as having a romantic basis- not the reality of being an agent of control and degradation...
This was also the case in the prime time soaps of the 1980's and 90's- again the target audience was the teen and college age demographic of both genders. This filters over into non soap shows starting in the later 1980's, even in a sanitized way in cartoons targeted at children above 7 years old- like Jem and X-men. Which brings me to American comic books...
The soap opera model isn't unusual even as far back as the beginning of Archie comics. The Archie comics tend to follow the more traditional soap opera model, which isn't as overtly negative to permanent romantic relationships as the 1970's shift in the genre went. Superhero comics up through the mid 1980's tended to follow the traditional soap opera model: characters did get married and even had children (only then would the anti romantic part of the story truly kick in as in soaps prior to the 1970's). In the later 1980's, as the first generation of mostly male writers raised on the more overtly anti romantic soap opera storyline model began to move into the superhero comic writer and editor positions. Thus the late 1980's-1990's purging of positive permanent romantic storylines in DC and Marvel comics....
Female writers were largely shut out of writing in most popular fiction in the west- TV shows of all kinds, the comic book industry; it was difficult for women to even gain entry into the romance novel genre, much less science fiction and fantasy, until the 1970's, the movie industry as well. The feminist movement began to break that wall down- first in the romance novel genre: up to the mid 1970's only a few women had a career as romance novelists and romance novels up to that time reflected storylines similar to traditional soap operas, except they ended at the positive point of the wedding.
In the mid 1970's the second wave of the feminist movement first opened up opportunities for women writers in the romance genre and women poured in. But the editors remained dominantly male, so the story guidelines only shifted slightly- in the direct of more overt sexuality- the "bodice ripper" era, with the similar disturbing element of what was happening in soaps- sexual assaults glamorized and seen as romantic. In the early 1980's that began to change dramatically as women became not just the majority of writers but also editors in the romance genre. The soap opera storylines all but disappeared and the emphasis- especially the the historical and paranormal subgenres continued to be more sensual, but also more psychologically romantic- it became all about two people discovering each other as they fell in love. Rapes and sexual assaults all but disappear in storylines, instead the dominant theme is the male character romantically seduces the attracted but uncertain female character...
In Japan women writers didn't have the difficulties they had in the west, having a career being a writer was not stigmatized like it was in the west, it was considered a respectful occupation for a woman. This made entry into the manga industry much easier for women than entry into the comic industry was in the west. (Writing for newspapers, TV, movies, the stage or animation had a similar barrier as in the west though.... In Japan there was a dramatic split between how a poet or novelist was seen versus how a playwright, journalist, scriptwriter, etc... was seen. Mangaka (manga creators) were seen as being closer to novelists than scriptwriters, thus as the feminist movement in Japan gave large numbers of young Japanese women entry into the shoujo manga genre starting in the late 1960's, storylines shifted similarly to how romance novels did in the west in the early 1980's. Japanese editors, although also being predominately male, were more open to letting the women define the direction the stories would go. (editing in Japan is not quite as invasive storyline wise as it is in the west- especially in the comic book industry where editors basically call almost all the shots.)
In the west women comic book writers basically had to "go independent" to get published at all, much less be able to tell the stories they wanted to tell (Wendy Pini, Coleen Doran, Trina Robbins, etc...) If you look at Robbins, Pini, Doran, etc... independent works you again see the more romantic positive storylines you see mid 80's onward in romance novels, rather than the soap opera model.
The difference does boil down to how women and men were, and to a degree still are, socialized how to view romance. (You can see the differences in that socialization in male and female novelists in the west at least as far back as 1600's- when you finally get few, but enough, women writers to draw a comparison. It becomes dramatic by the Regency period- compare Marquis de Sade and Casanova to Anne Radcliffe and Jane Austen, for a prime example...) The second wave of feminism did slowly have a positive effect on even how males are socialized to view romance- slowly the more romantic positive view of romance has filtered into how boys are socialized. It's still stigmatized, to a degree, for guys to like the more positive view of romance that women are socialized with, but they are more likely to admit they actually like it in mixed gender audiences than before the 1970's. This is more true amongst Japanese men, but they've had a lot more exposure to that image of romance via shoujo manga and anime than guys in the west. It's still pretty unusual to see guys regularly reading romance novels- although I've noticed a few younger men in the past few years in the library are becoming regular readers of romance novels- interestingly, but not surprisingly they tend to be guys who like manga.
Edited by ciardha, 08 January 2012 - 08:46 PM.
When you go to war, both sides lose totally- Yoko Ono
Remember, our hearts are one. Even when we are at war with each other, our hearts are always beating in unison- Yoko Ono 2009
#27
Posted 08 January 2012 - 08:36 PM
#28
Posted 08 January 2012 - 08:53 PM
I'll continue on that shortly. I just saw several folks post the query about why the difference between Japan and the US and it's such a great question that almost anyone who becomes regular reader of manga or watcher of anime asks. I did myself around 20 years ago, and decided to investigate why. That post was what I was able to discover after much research.
When you go to war, both sides lose totally- Yoko Ono
Remember, our hearts are one. Even when we are at war with each other, our hearts are always beating in unison- Yoko Ono 2009
#29
Posted 08 January 2012 - 10:21 PM
#30
Posted 08 January 2012 - 11:28 PM
...
Touché.
#31
Posted 11 January 2012 - 08:33 PM
Do all the relationships you ship have similar dynamics, or do they vary?
For example, I find I tend to ship relationships with similar dynamics; two strong and equally independent(?) characters who eventually strike up a friendship and eventually develop romantic feelings towards each other. NaruSaku, ToumaMikoto, ZeLink, and JiraTsu tend to follow that for me.
#32
Posted 11 January 2012 - 08:48 PM
#33
Posted 11 January 2012 - 09:00 PM
You and I are in the same boat, Smiter.
#34
Posted 11 January 2012 - 09:03 PM
#35
Posted 11 January 2012 - 09:05 PM
Do all the relationships you ship have similar dynamics, or do they vary?
For example, I find I tend to ship relationships with similar dynamics; two strong and equally independent(?) characters who eventually strike up a friendship and eventually develop romantic feelings towards each other. NaruSaku, ToumaMikoto, ZeLink, and JiraTsu tend to follow that for me.
Except in cases like, well, NaruSaku, I usually like the typical Takahashi couple- "tsundere" girl and a jerk (with a heart of gold) boy.
Also, the least likely it's going to happen, the more I ship. It's just how I roll.
IKR?
Edited by KonaKonaFan, 11 January 2012 - 09:06 PM.
#36
Posted 11 January 2012 - 09:10 PM
But really, my ships require awesome chemistry. I think the last major ships I had were Rock/Levy from Black Lagoon, and Church/Tex from Red vs Blue. Which may or may not count. I try not to fall into the typical character-type ships.
#37
Posted 11 January 2012 - 09:16 PM
But really, my ships require awesome chemistry. I think the last major ships I had were Rock/Levy from Black Lagoon, and Church/Tex from Red vs Blue. Which may or may not count. I try not to fall into the typical character-type ships.
Caboose/Shelia all the way!
#38
Posted 11 January 2012 - 09:50 PM
Do all the relationships you ship have similar dynamics, or do they vary?
For example, I find I tend to ship relationships with similar dynamics; two strong and equally independent(?) characters who eventually strike up a friendship and eventually develop romantic feelings towards each other. NaruSaku, ToumaMikoto, ZeLink, and JiraTsu tend to follow that for me.
It definitely varies for me. I think to tend to prefer that same dynamic you mentioned, but I might break that rule if one of the partners doesn't interest me as a character. I rarely ship supporting characters together in fiction, so the only real ships I get into involve either the main hero or heroine, and there's many cases where I just don't care about one of them, and ship the hero or heroine with someone else.
Also, like Kim, I think the probability of them becoming a couple also plays a major role. I don't mind crack or non-canon ships, but if another couple is getting the lion's share of romantic development or screen/panel time, I have a tough time shipping either of them with anyone else. I think that especially holds true if romance is a key point of the story. At a certain point, it'd be like shipping Juliet with Paris or Benvolio.
For me to actually ship a couple though, I tend to need to a lot of blatant romantic development. I don't mind shipping friends together and crossing my fingers they'll cross into romantic territory, but if it's not openly romantic I tend to lose interest. There's a reason I've only just now started Zelink shipping, despite having played the games for well over a decade. The first few hours of Skyward Sword were SO FLUFFY, I couldn't help myself.
#39
Posted 11 January 2012 - 10:09 PM
"They don't want none"
#40
Posted 11 January 2012 - 10:59 PM
How could I forget RockLevy? DX That is a really fun thing to ship, and it's really awesome to watch Rock and Levy change and grow with each other. I blame the slow releases of Black Lagoon for falling out of touch.
Also, like Kim, I think the probability of them becoming a couple also plays a major role. I don't mind crack or non-canon ships, but if another couple is getting the lion's share of romantic development or screen/panel time, I have a tough time shipping either of them with anyone else. I think that especially holds true if romance is a key point of the story. At a certain point, it'd be like shipping Juliet with Paris or Benvolio.
For me to actually ship a couple though, I tend to need to a lot of blatant romantic development. I don't mind shipping friends together and crossing my fingers they'll cross into romantic territory, but if it's not openly romantic I tend to lose interest. There's a reason I've only just now started Zelink shipping, despite having played the games for well over a decade. The first few hours of Skyward Sword were SO FLUFFY, I couldn't help myself.
I feel the same way as you do, and also tend to go for main characters. I didn't even see ZeLink as a ship until I played Skyward Sword, it was so fun to see how they interacted. XD I don't like to ship Naruto and Sakura with others, but NaruIno seems an interesting exception (anyone know any good NaruIno fics that don't bash Sakura? Or even NaruSakuIno? PM me please!).
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