179 replies to this topic

[StriderC]

I don't know why but I always feel like her perfect chakra control would work in her favor when it comes to gaining sage mode.

[Jake]

But chakra is made out of Physical Stamina and Spiritual Energy...

 

Maybe calling it molded is not the best term, the Chakra in Sakura's seal has already been made, in order to make Senjutsu Chakra Natural energy must be added at the point of creation, this was stated bu Fukasaku during Naruto's Sage Mode training.

 

I don't know why but I always feel like her perfect chakra control would work in her favor when it comes to gaining sage mode.

 

It was stated by Fukasaku that only those who have large Chakra reserves like Naruto, Jiraiya and Hashirama can even attempt to learn Sage Mode, the only oddity in this is Kabuto who resorted to genetically altering himself with DNA from Karin an Uzumaki, and Jugo who's clan gathers natural energy constantly (at the cost of their sanity).

[Chatte]

 

Maybe calling it molded is not the best term, the Chakra in Sakura's seal has already been made, in order to make Senjutsu Chakra Natural energy must be added at the point of creation, this was stated bu Fukasaku during Naruto's Sage Mode training.

 

Going by what it was explained here, we see that chakra has those 2 parts. So basically, what you do is add the nature energy to it.
I don't quite get it, really. All it was said in the training is that you need to have big chakra reserves to be able to add the Nature chakra to your system, so to speak. So with her seal, she'd complete that part.
It was never stated, as far as I remember, that the chakra needs to meet a certain aspect, besides the large reserves thing... So I don't get it, why she could not use it... You made that analogy with the cake, but to me, the best analogy is like with a car and NOS [Ever played Need for Speed?]

You have your power to begin with but when you add the NOS, the car just goes crazy running, adding to its initial power. Same here... Sakura has the reserves now and if she adds the Nature chakra, voila Sage Mode.

[Jake]

 

Going by what it was explained here, we see that chakra has those 2 parts. So basically, what you do is add the nature energy to it.
I don't quite get it, really. All it was said in the training is that you need to have big chakra reserves to be able to add the Nature chakra to your system, so to speak. So with her seal, she'd complete that part.
It was never stated, as far as I remember, that the chakra needs to meet a certain aspect, besides the large reserves thing... So I don't get it, why she could not use it... You made that analogy with the cake, but to me, the best analogy is like with a car and NOS [Ever played Need for Speed?]

You have your power to begin with but when you add the NOS, the car just goes crazy running, adding to its initial power. Same here... Sakura has the reserves now and if she adds the Nature chakra, voila Sage Mode.

 

This is Fukasaku explaining Senjutsu Chakra

 

[Enkai]

 

This is Fukasaku explaining Senjutsu Chakra

 

 

 I originally thought that the chakra from the seal would mean she could learn sage mode. Based on what it says here though I guess she theoretically can't :( It's still possible Kishi might find a way around this, maybe make it so that she can some how use the chakra stored in the seal so expand her own natural reserves? :/ Either way Kishi flopped when it came to character development in general besides a few characters, like most of the rookies... Sakura could have been developed so much more compared to the potential she had.

[Dkey]

And yet a thought occurred to me regarding medical ninjutsu and how chakra is made. We saw it can heal body parts basically anything from scratches to bone fractures, so maybe medical ninjutsu works in breaking up the chakra back into physical and spiritual energy and applying one of those to the damaged area. We also saw that medical ninjutsu also restores someone's energy not just heals wounds.

 

So if in theory if it is possible to break up chakra back into those base components then Sakura could afterwards combine it with natural energy to obtain senjutsu.

 

Unfortunately I don't have proof for this, but somehow if Kishi wants to explain it then it could be the only way without retconning what was linked above.

[Atheck]

And yet a thought occurred to me regarding medical ninjutsu and how chakra is made. We saw it can heal body parts basically anything from scratches to bone fractures, so maybe medical ninjutsu works in breaking up the chakra back into physical and spiritual energy and applying one of those to the damaged area.

So if in theory if it is possible to break up chakra back into those base components then Sakura could afterwards combine it with natural energy to obtain senjutsu.

How does raw physical or spiritual energy induce this? Healing an injury involves platelets developing a clot to prevent any further blood loss, white blood cells killing the foreign bacteria, and cellular division which closes the wound. That's like saying an energy drink will heal a scrape someone got on their knee after falling on the pavement.

All medical ninjutsu has the same basic principals. The chakra used expedites the restorative process which causes the wound to heal in a matter of seconds. Sozo Saisei, Byakugou, and the bijuu shroud are all just extreme variations of this original technique.
 

We also saw that medical ninjutsu also restores someone's energy not just heals wounds.

They're supplied with chakra that allows them to continue fighting for extensive periods of time. No techniques have been shown to restore just stamina or spiritual energy.

[Dkey]

How does raw physical or spiritual energy induce this? Healing an injury involves platelets developing a clot to prevent any further blood loss, white blood cells killing the foreign bacteria, and cellular division which closes the wound. That's like saying an energy drink will heal a scrape someone got on their knee after falling on the pavement.

 

Probably we understand the concept of energy different. For me those actions you described like cellular division requires energy. Same can be said for white blood cells killing foreign bacteria, energy is required for the body to develop those white cells.

An energy drink thou it offers energy it offers it for some functions of the human body.

 

All medical ninjutsu has the same basic principals. The chakra used expedites the restorative process which causes the wound to heal in a matter of seconds. Sozo Saisei, Byakugou, and the bijuu shroud are all just extreme variations of this original technique.
 

They're supplied with chakra that allows them to continue fighting for extensive periods of time. No techniques have been shown to restore just stamina or spiritual energy.

 

 

 

As I said I don't have proof for my theory. But where being injected with chakra from another person may make one feel restored doesn't it feel like touching both of those energies?

[Atheck]

Probably we understand the concept of energy different.

The people in the Naruto universe are biologically and anatomically human for the most part. What separates those characters from us is that they are capable of using a metaphysical substance existing inside of them to create various things like clones, water, fire, lightning, distortions in the Space-Time continuum, ect.
 

For me those actions you described like cellular division requires energy. Same can be said for white blood cells killing foreign bacteria, energy is required for the body to develop those white cells.

If my biology is accurate, white blood cells are created from stem cells in the bone marrow. They do require energy but as it's understood in the Naruto universe, chakra functions as that energy; without it, you die. It's for that reason chakra is moulded in the first place. Even by those who scarcely use ninjutsu or genjutsu like Guy.
 

An energy drink thou it offers energy it offers it for some functions of the human body.

As I said I don't have proof for my theory. But where being injected with chakra from another person may make one feel restored doesn't it feel like touching both of those energies?

They offer temporary surges because of the sugar and caffeine that's used in the drink but soon afterwards a "crash and burn effect" sinks in. In many ways the soldier pills are like those beverages. They're stated to provide a momentary increase to a person's chakra levels (by releasing the reserves inside the body). But when Kiba ingested that supplement, despite added proteins, the scrapes on Kiba's face remained unchanged - i.e. there were no restorative repercussions. 

Moreover, healing ninjutsu was stated to be usable through transferring chakra into the person's body and speeding their recovery rate. Sozo Saisei is the pinnacle of this basic idea. Chakra is used to stimulate the enzymes necessary for cellular division. If there was another step in this process where chakra was broken down into its original components then that would have been referenced. As it stands, the only explanations for medical ninjutsu are the ones Tsunade and the Databooks give.

 

Edit: It's highly probable that Sakura doesn't have the seal anymore because of the Shinju extracting what chakra her and the other shinobi carried. Frankly, I half expect the next chapter to show her emaciated and in critical condition. The features of those who were drained of their chakra became gaunt and lifeless. Now despite the general indistinctness of the panel, you can just about make out her eyes which appear sunken given the shadowing encircling her sockets. Her mouth looks agape and tense like those who lost their vigour. And her hair seems less vibrant and more crimped like Nagato's when he used Rinne Tensei jutsu. 

 

Sakura might have entered into the same state of senescence as Tsunade whenever she is no longer siphoning chakra for her transformation jutsu. Coincidentally, Tsunade gained a chakra resupply not too long ago and her youth was restored. It's possible that Kishi is intending for the roles of master and apprentice to be switched in the upcoming chapters.

Edited by Atheck, 12 September 2013 - 09:50 AM.

[narusakuforlife1667]

probly because she does need to prove to every one shes a power full woman that has surpassed tsunade

[Atheck]

probly because she does need to prove to every one shes a power full woman that has surpassed tsunade

 

How is this not possible with the training she has already received? Sakura wields not only Tsunade's superhuman strength, but her seal and ninjutsu arsenal as well. She's already demonstrated her superiority (circumstantially) in the area of brute force. Their healing ninjutsu is on par with each other's. If she were to find ways to correct the imperfections in Tsunade's Byakugou jutsu and expand the range and potency of her healing techniques more than what Tsunade ever achieved then for all intents and purposes her succession is proven.

Edited by Atheck, 13 September 2013 - 03:52 AM.

[narusakuforlife1667]

 

How is this not possible with the training she has already received? Sakura wields not only Tsunade's superhuman strength, but her seal and ninjutsu arsenal as well. She's already demonstrated her superiority (circumstantially) in the area of brute force. Their healing ninjutsu is on par with each other's. If she were to find ways to correct the imperfections in Tsunade's Byakugou jutsu and expand the range and potency of her healing techniques more than what Tsunade ever achieved then for all intents and purposes her succession is proven.

Don't forget sakura and her genjutsu it may come in handy in the future oh and i totally agree with you

[Chatte]

 

This is Fukasaku explaining Senjutsu Chakra

 

Yeah, but based on the previous chakra explaining, it says that it's made out of physical and spiritual energy. What you have to do is infuse natural one but you must know how to balance it and that your reserves have to be big. And to be honest, I don't see any problem here as she already bypasses that with her seal.  All he is saying is that if you don't have enough, you can't make it. But now, that's no more the problem. Nowhere did he say anything more than just requirements of large chakra pools and being able to balance them and I personally don't see any problem.

[Jake]

Yeah, but based on the previous chakra explaining, it says that it's made out of physical and spiritual energy. What you have to do is infuse natural one but you must know how to balance it and that your reserves have to be big. And to be honest, I don't see any problem here as she already bypasses that with her seal.  All he is saying is that if you don't have enough, you can't make it. But now, that's no more the problem. Nowhere did he say anything more than just requirements of large chakra pools and being able to balance them and I personally don't see any problem.

 

You can not just add another element to chakra this was explained during Naruto's Wind Training when Kakashi said that both he and Minato were unable to infuse the Rasengan with their Chakra Nature, the proves that both Naruto's Wind Style: Rasengan and Wind Style: Rasenshirken are not made out of pure Wind Chakra, and as such in order to use them Naruto has to use both his normal Chakra and his Wind Chakra (or when he is in Sage Mode, his Senjutsu Chakra and his Wind Chakra). the fact the it is done this way means that once you have made Chakra, you can not change it, you can mix different types of chakra together like Naruto is doing with his Senjutsu Chakra and Kruama's chakra and what Sasuke and Jugo are doing. but in both cases that requires one party to supply Senjutsu Chakra (Naruto & Jugo), and someone else providing regular chakra (Kurama & Sasuke).

[Codus N]

 

You can not just add another element to chakra this was explained during Naruto's Wind Training when Kakashi said that both he and Minato were unable to infuse the Rasengan with their Chakra Nature, the proves that both Naruto's Wind Style: Rasengan and Wind Style: Rasenshirken are not made out of pure Wind Chakra, and as such in order to use them Naruto has to use both his normal Chakra and his Wind Chakra (or when he is in Sage Mode, his Senjutsu Chakra and his Wind Chakra). the fact the it is done this way means that once you have made Chakra, you can not change it, you can mix different types of chakra together like Naruto is doing with his Senjutsu Chakra and Kruama's chakra and what Sasuke and Jugo are doing. but in both cases that requires one party to supply Senjutsu Chakra (Naruto & Jugo), and someone else providing regular chakra (Kurama & Sasuke).

 

This explanation is a lot easier to understand compared to the previous explanations you and Atheck gave.

[Jake]

 

This explanation is a lot easier to understand compared to the previous explanations you and Atheck gave.

 

Thank you.

[Chatte]

 

You can not just add another element to chakra this was explained during Naruto's Wind Training when Kakashi said that both he and Minato were unable to infuse the Rasengan with their Chakra Nature, the proves that both Naruto's Wind Style: Rasengan and Wind Style: Rasenshirken are not made out of pure Wind Chakra, and as such in order to use them Naruto has to use both his normal Chakra and his Wind Chakra (or when he is in Sage Mode, his Senjutsu Chakra and his Wind Chakra). the fact the it is done this way means that once you have made Chakra, you can not change it, you can mix different types of chakra together like Naruto is doing with his Senjutsu Chakra and Kruama's chakra and what Sasuke and Jugo are doing. but in both cases that requires one party to supply Senjutsu Chakra (Naruto & Jugo), and someone else providing regular chakra (Kurama & Sasuke).

But this is not another element. It's nature chakra.

One part supplies senjutsu chakra, as in the nature itself and the regular chakra is provided by herself.

[Jake]

But this is not another element. It's nature chakra.

One part supplies senjutsu chakra, as in the nature itself and the regular chakra is provided by herself.

 

But she lacks the capacity to produce Senjutsu Chakra, and if you can't just add an element (which most Jonin have at least two of) to normal chakra then why would it be possible to add Nature Energy which is far more difficult.

[Chatte]

 

But she lacks the capacity to produce Senjutsu Chakra, and if you can't just add an element (which most Jonin have at least two of) to normal chakra then why would it be possible to add Nature Energy which is far more difficult.

In order to produce Senjutsu Chakra, one must first gather/add Natural Energy... And after you've gathered that, you can produce Senjutsu chakra... Plus, we're talking the possibility of going into SM, which, as concluded in the manga by explanations, she could do it.

[Jake]

In order to produce Senjutsu Chakra, one must first gather/add Natural Energy... And after you've gathered that, you can produce Senjutsu chakra... Plus, we're talking the possibility of going into SM, which, as concluded in the manga by explanations, she could do it.

 

It was stated during Naruto's training that only a few people could obtain Sage Mode, if you could just add Natural Energy to already formed chakra then how could it be so rare?, I'm pretty sure somewhere down the line someone would have tried something like that, it's not to like Fuinjutsu is something new or anything it's been around since at least the Sage of Six Paths sealed the Jubi.

 

If you could add Natural Energy to pre-formed chakra then anybody could do it with enough time and the same Fuinjutsu Kakashi used on Sasuke's curse mark back in Part I.