Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

If anything they are controversial, after the revelation that naruto and sasukr are the reincarnations of them.

 

Never liked that. I know in my fanfic, I have it that Naruto and Sasuke are descendants to Ashura and Indra instead of reincarnations, with Naruto being a less direct one while Sasuke is more direct to show the big difference in their abilities.

SP's obsession came from Kishimoto's indifference allowed them to make Hinata their own ideal girl.

 

Hinata is seen as the ideal Japanese woman; traditional. beautiful, submissive, obedient, devoted to her love, but they also have a iron will which Hinata lacks. However, they don't make that interesting a Heroine in Shounen stories, unless you really know what you are doing, so Tsundere are preferred due to being more dynamic and active of a character. There are characters in shounen of the archetype to be sure, but they are often the secondary female destine to lose to the tsundere because she is the primary heroine. So the stories are often the shy meek girl meeting the hero, and through interacting with the hero developing the backbone and will that they didn't have before. In theory, even Kishimoto was going to do this with Hinata by having her marry Neji and help reform the clan. So, he considered her story done and only needed to be addressed at the ending, I doubt he ever considered Hinata, "Sakura's rival for Naruto's love," until it was force upon him. However, his indifference meant he offered no push back because that her story was obvious, to him.

 

SP probably originally was just fond of her as she was their type. However with Kishi doing nothing with her and them needing filler; this meant that they needed to develop their own version of her, like they did many other Naruto characters. So they slowly crafted her into their ideal girl, but not only that but she started to be seen by them as their character over Kishimoto's. Naruto's success was really because of them, and Kishimoto would never been as successful without them, they felt. So, they were entitled to their character winning over Kishi's, to make it clear whose story Naruto really is. Kishimoto could have stopped this if he had been aware and willing to do something...or even accidentally by just developing Hinata's story and character more. But he didn't. And he and his story was punished for his refusal to do something.

 

The Last was SP them doing their story. They didn't really care about Naruto's suffering other than to show how perfect Hinata was for being only that truly cared for him. She is their goddess, Naruto is a stand in for them or her trophy to prove she is superior to Sakura.

 

Well said, and all it's done has ruined Naruto beyond repair it feels like. Considering how they kept trying to twist the story over in Boruto to try to make the story their way, and all this other side story crap, all it does is drive people away which is why people don't want anything about Naruto as it is now. They just don't care because they see Naruto as THEIR story but won't admit they screwed the pooch over it.

How far is it in terms of comparison to movie?

 

It seems to be close but I also get some vibes how Toneri feels a bit more sympathetic even if he still seems crazy.

The same mentality I see run rampant with Edelgard parallels what I've seen of the Akame Ga Kill fanbase and their obsession with Esdeath.  It doesn't matter to them that she allows her men to literally rape, torture and pillage villages.  It doesn't matter that she sees MC Tatsumi as a toy for her to dominate, disregards his opinions, beliefs or what he values if it does not coincide with her own.  It doesn't matter that she lives a life based on hedonism and social darwinist principles  where she will wage wars for her own entertainment and justifies the deaths of innocnet lives in her wake as the fault of their own "weakness".  As long as she has big boobs, she can do no wrong.

Reminds me how some people are cool with Sasuke in spite of the crap he did since he was involved in some terrible things too!

Most of us are done with Naruto as it's become, Phantom, but we remember the good times as we ignore the bad.

We also get a teaser for the Black Clover movie.  Tabata's comments seem to suggest that it will be canon to the manga, probably taking place within the recent time-skip. 
 
Also, BC subreddit are being salty, entitled brats over Ichika kicking Asta's ass in training and labeling her a "Mary Sue", which is just a translation for "I don't want Asta to be challenged by this new female character since he's the main protagonist! I don't care if the internal logic over why she's beating his ass such as being exponentially more proficient in Ki, which massively amplifies strength and isn't derivative of magic, or that she's older and more experienced in combat, makes perfect sense. This is Asta's show and he should always win!"

I don't mind Asta getting knocked around, but what I don't like is how Ichika seems to look down on his greatest ability, to never give up, by claiming he was pushing himself too hard, since it reminds me of Mereoleona to an extent, but she did get over it quickly. In Ichika's case, she's just taking her frustration with Yami out on Asta is what I have the issue with. She needs to work that out eventually, but she shouldn't take her being angry at her big brother on Asta.

agreed and there better stories than sasuke heck ezio was the same but we saw him grow as a character and when he beat Rodrigo said killing him wouldn't change anything his father and brothers were still dead. 

The thing I see as the problem for Sasuke and his wanting revenge so much is his motives for why change so much. Witt Itachi, it wasnt just the fact of the massacre, it was Sasuke being jealous of Itachi, even as much as he admired him, since he had their fathers approval, even as Fugaku wanted to use Itachi as a tool for his coup.

When Itachi died, and Obito told Sasuke some of the truth for his own aims, Sasuke wanted to not just make those who hurt Itachi pay, he wanted to simply destroy the thing Itachi chose over their WHOLE family, even if he spat on all Itachi did to keep him alive.

For Sasuke, his approach is more like Kratos, choosing to change the goalposts constantly but not seeing his own faults in his ambitions for vengeance, such as how his jealousy was his biggest factor to wanting to kill Itachi, since he said it himself as a kid he loved Itachi but deep down, he monologued about how he HATED him too. Only difference is while Kratos accepted his own choices being why he went through what he did, Sasuke never really did that.

i agreed i don't see why abby getting revenge is good and elie getting it is bad to me there both equal revenge doesn't play favorites.
also consequences in naruto are never a thing since if they were naruto wouldn't have let orochimaru walk free. 
sasuke got no consequences which is annoying since he was one the reason the war started.
a better revenge story is kratos, robocop and ezio, bayek and altair 
at least with altair he learned from his pain and became a better and wiser man, bayek even saw his revenge wasn't helping anything and why he made the hidden ones 

In the case of Robocop/Alex, while he does get revenge, he does also still follow a path of justice in his work as a cop, and for Kratos, he saw the consequences of his selfishness with his desire for revenge so much, even trying to stop Baldr in the last game since he knew revenge wouldnt make him feel better since for Kratos, he was so full of it he kept shifting his vengeance until he saw what he was doing and accepted his own blame for his circumstances too.

Or again how about the idea of vengeance is wrong, but apparently it' not due to an individual's actions or choices. It is a global problem created by a militaristic system full of super natural powers and it's up to a chosen one to fix it but in the end he does nothing. You can't get a more broken message than that. Naruto at the very least  practiced what he preached regarding Nagato, to be fair. Now the message falls flat on it's face because not only does Naruto hold back on vengeance, he goes as far as excusing and forgiving the horrible crimes that others have caused, but that is only his pov and everyone just goes along with it which is what leaves a bad taste in my mouth, because it is unrealistic and disproportionate. It is much more admirable to have the desire for vengeance because of the the vicarious pain you feel for others losing loved ones but not act out on it, because of your principles. Another example I would like to add is Gordon in the Killing Joke. He had every right pierce Joker with every single bullet on his person after what Joker did to Barbara but he said to Batman he wants him to be "taken in by the law"

And in "Hush", when Hush faked his death as Tom and Joker was believed to be the killer, Batman was driven to kill Joker, until Jim talked him down, stopping him from making a mistake in more ways than one.

It's nice to see that this franchise is getting a reboot. I wonder which production will handle the English dubs.

 

 

Honestly, Cartoon Network stopped the dub at the Shishio Arc. But I heard that the fillers were horrible.

 

Yeah, I've heard that too. Some of the stuff early on was pretty good filler wise though. As for the dub, I wonder if it'll be Funimation/Crunchyroll Dubs, considering they did handle dubbing the live-action Rurouni Kenshin movies, and Micah Solusod, their choice for Kenshin, was pretty great, but I'd be glad to hear Richard Cansino as him again!

And this is why Ive grown to love Tolkiens works even more as the man put his whole life into making a whole history of Arda.
This even goes with the tale of Beren and Lúthien which is a very sweet but also very sad. I wont go into but this shows how better Tolkien is at doing romance.
The sad fact is Kishi unlike Tolkien who told the Natizs to kitten off in his own way look it up on YouTube it is funny had more balls than Kishi ever will.

Tolkien also had so much more world building even with doing a massive series like The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings. And he stuck to his guns, something Kishimoto couldn't do since I still say his dad's death and his own exhaustion led him to give up,

Honestly the more I think about Sasuke should have been the final opponent of the series, he should have had a story arc more like that of Harry Osborn in the Sam Rami trilogy. Be Naruto's enemy for a bit have a fight, learn he was wrong

and help him in the final battle to redeem himself. Whether or not he dies like Harry I think is up for debate.

 

I like that. Or show him starting to be like that over time, how he feels bitter and empty even after "beating" Itachi because while he hated him for the massacre of their clan AND the attention he got from their father, we know Sasuke loved and admired Itachi, wanting to become a great ninja like he was. So I figure that "beating" Itachi would get Sasuke to realize his hate and jealousy are what motivated him most of all, which could be like what Harry realized when Bertrand told him what really happened to Norman near the end of Spider-Man 3, and how Harry had his chance to redeem himself, especially since he was so misguided in his anger at what happened when he learned Peter was Spider-Man, supposedly killed his father, and the fact Peter while bonded to Venom came at him for payback and ended up scarring him too.

See, Iruka could had a much more impactful event during the Pain attack, unlike a certain Hyuga who came out of nowhere (also acting like a selfish, lovey-dovey dumb b****) because that's what "the fans" wanted. No, that wasn't what the actual fans wanted in the first place because someone (I bet it was the editor at the time) wanted Hinata for "better" relevancy and to start rile shipping fans. Ignoring the fact that she wasn't even that high of the list in terms of Naruto's important people. 

 

Replace Hinata and that goddamn confession part. Add in Iruka, he can make a great speech about Naruto to provide more impact/heartwarming/approaching suspense to the readers, knowing that he's in "danger of being killed off". Goes in to attack but then Pain counters and stabs him, similar on what he did to Hinata. Cue Naruto becoming 5+ Tails.  

 

Same result but better impact and value to audiences. Not to mention to bring back Iruka to relevancy, in regards of popularity. 

 

Exactly! I can imagine Iruka just having a sixth sense moment after helping with evac, and that he just rushes as fast as he could. After all, Konohamaru was similar, since he came to Ebisu's rescue, and he showed just how much Naruto taught him when he showed he learned the Rasengan from him.

 

And yeah, I totally feel this was the work of Kishi's editors trying to butt in and put too many hands in the cookie jar with the story. Now I think for my fanfic, I wanna do that with Iruka, but what would be different is Naruto going berserk, mostly because he and Kurama would have a rocky, but growing steadily bond after earlier stuff, and that they both feel rage, Naruto feeling it from all Pain/Nagato did to the Leaf as well as killing Jiraiya, Kurama feeling it due to his refusal to be anyone's puppet anymore, leading them to sync up and become a different kind of tails level than just the kind of standard 5 tails he DID take in canon.

 

You know part of me always wondered why Obito when he was naruto's enemy didn't try to go after sakura to try and break him, since the team 7 similarities to his team were obvious but it was never brought up. Part of me wonders if kishimoto was originally supposed to make a situation where it looks like Sakura has supposedly "died" in a similar manner to Rin in front Naruto in went Naruto begins to feel despair, but doesn't break in the end to help make obito realize that he gave up to quickly or something. for then Sakura to turn out to be alive due to her medical justu. Or obito when good tells Sakura about himself, rin and Kakashi to her and why she is important to naruto etc and dies protecting her saving the rin of the next genration so that naruto doesn't end up like him. 

 

Though I assume when Studio Pierott and the editors forced their Hianata agenda they made Kishimoto drop it and her involment in the obito battle and instead made him kill Neji to have Naruto feel that despair and have Hianata "save" him from it.

 

I agree on what you said, Blue. Or do something like in a Superman story from years ago, "Ending Battle". In it, Superman had to deal with Manchester Black, a previous enemy who led a super team called the Elite, and Black had Clark running ragged by sending tons of supervillains after people who knew him in his regular life, and then Black came to Lois, making it look like he killed her, all because he wanted Clark to be exposed as a "fraud" just because he never believed Clark was the kind of person who really was not about killing and the like, and when Clark said he refused to kill Black, this is what was said.
 

MAJOR SPOILER ALERT:
 
I can't believe Horikoshi actually pulled this off for a character death. But then again...

 
It must be pretty big stuff for the upcoming chapter! Then again, he surprised us with Midnight/Nemuri dying a while back, so with us nearing the climax, anything goes it seems!

EDIT: Whoa, you weren't kidding, Derock! Though like Chi, I'm gonna wait to see what happens.