54175 replies to this topic

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

You know this is my take, but Id rather Sakura go through a state of ptsd after Sasuke tried to kill her in the 5 Kage summit.

Narratively it would make sense because like Naruto, she wanted to try Sasuke and that moment shouldve left her questioning herself about what shes been doing. You know give her a reality check which I think wouldve been a good push for her character.

 

You're not necessarily wrong either, Chi, since it also could make her get away from "loving" Sasuke since he's no good for her and he doesn't give a **** about her!

[DrK]

 

I also think when Sarada asked Sakura if she and Sasuke were really married, she was mad about the idea too that her supposed daughter (sure she raised her, but she isn't Sarada's mom, no matter what's said, Karin is since she has the umbilical cord AND DNA tests can be pretty damn accurate) had the gall to do that and just doesn't like to be reminded she didn't really "win" Sasuke, just like how she lost Naruto just because she didn't think deep down (if you ask me) she "deserved" him for hurting him. SO WHAT?!!

It was Karin's own umbilical cord. I think  So the DNA machine result had nothing to do with Sarada whatsoever.

 

But it doesn't matter to me if Sakura had one, ten, or zero kids with Sasuke. I don't acknowledge that Sakura as being the character I read, because it was nonsensical. She's a pathetic clown. Naruto is also a pitifully hypocritical clown.

 

Basically there was a reason why I made that one thread... I wanted to show that the ending wasn't something that SHOULDN'T have happened... but something that strictly WOULDN'T have happened.

 

But maybe I failed at that. But anyway, when someone approaches the postcanon materials in this way, making some allowance for Sakura being completely unreasonable, or whatever... All you're really doing is dignifying them.

 

The non-destroyed version of Sakura is just the only one that I care about. And Naruto as well. I don't care about some dude who kittens his pants making a shadow clone while Orochimaru experiments on kids.

Edited by DrK, 10 February 2020 - 07:04 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

It was Karin's own umbilical cord. I think  So the DNA machine result had nothing to do with Sarada whatsoever.

 

But it doesn't matter to me if Sakura had one, ten, or zero kids with Sasuke. I don't acknowledge that Sakura as being the character I read, because it was nonsensical. She's a pathetic clown. Naruto is also a pitifully hypocritical clown.

 

Basically there was a reason why I made that one thread... I wanted to show that the ending wasn't something that SHOULDN'T have happened... but something that strictly WOULDN'T have happened.

 

But maybe I failed at that. But anyway, when someone approaches the postcanon materials in this way, making some allowance for Sakura being completely unreasonable, or whatever... All you're really doing is dignifying them.

 

The non-destroyed version of Sakura is just the only one that I care about. And Naruto as well. I don't care about some dude who kittens his pants making a shadow clone while Orochimaru experiments on kids.

 

It's also the ending that made me wanna work more on my fanfic, even if I've hit some stumbles due to writer's block.

[James S Cassidy]

 

I also think when Sarada asked Sakura if she and Sasuke were really married, she was mad about the idea too that her supposed daughter (sure she raised her, but she isn't Sarada's mom, no matter what's said, Karin is since she has the umbilical cord AND DNA tests can be pretty damn accurate) had the gall to do that and just doesn't like to be reminded she didn't really "win" Sasuke, just like how she lost Naruto just because she didn't think deep down (if you ask me) she "deserved" him for hurting him. SO WHAT?!!

I really hate this argument. The "I don't deserve a guy like you" argument. It is so bad because it does nothing. "I don't deserve you because you are too nice to me. Now, I will ignore your feelings and focus all my attention on a guy who does the same to me: ignore me and treat me poorly."

I never understand this concept of falling in love with people who have no feelings for you whatsoever only to try and beat brow them into caring about you....but then turn around and tell another person that they shouldn't have feelings for you because you're not worth it. Like, you are literally telling people how they feel instead of asking them. If a girl does this apparently it is cute and romantic, but if a guy does this...it is creepy and he is being oppressive.

To me I would look at both Sakura and Hinata and tell them both..."Until the time comes when you truly appreciate love for what it is...you both don't deserve any."



I understand young lovers can be stupid when they first experience love, but how many times has Sasuke said "no" and yet they still pushed him to be with Sakura and pushed Naruto to Hinata? Literally, it feels like not one person save for our group cared about what the guys felt at all. All anyone else in the fandom cared about was what Hinata wanted and only slightly supported Sakura's feelings because "it got Naruto to be free to choose Hinata." It is the most asinine way of looking at love and this is how every one views as romantic now. The guy's are abusive and the girls are obsessive. Yet, they deny any of this despite being on the pages.
 

 

It was Karin's own umbilical cord. I think  So the DNA machine result had nothing to do with Sarada whatsoever.

 

But it doesn't matter to me if Sakura had one, ten, or zero kids with Sasuke. I don't acknowledge that Sakura as being the character I read, because it was nonsensical. She's a pathetic clown. Naruto is also a pitifully hypocritical clown.

 

Basically there was a reason why I made that one thread... I wanted to show that the ending wasn't something that SHOULDN'T have happened... but something that strictly WOULDN'T have happened.

 

But maybe I failed at that. But anyway, when someone approaches the postcanon materials in this way, making some allowance for Sakura being completely unreasonable, or whatever... All you're really doing is dignifying them.

 

The non-destroyed version of Sakura is just the only one that I care about. And Naruto as well. I don't care about some dude who kittens his pants making a shadow clone while Orochimaru experiments on kids.

Oh, I wish to portray that Sakura has been completely destroyed as a character. In fact, 99% of the characters in Naruto are a pale comparison to their former selves save for maybe the likes of Rock Lee and Temari.

It is just that I stopped blaming the characters themselves and instead focused on the REAL issue of that Kishimoto bent the knee to Hinata's popularity because he had no balls and the fact that everything that occurred with the retcons and more are all for the sake of making Hinata SEEM like the best girl.

And believe me, the Hinata fanatics are still at it. I talk with fanatics that talk about how great Hinata is and how bad Sakura is, but all they can remember is 2 scenes throughout the entire manga.

I literally stop the entire conversation and tell them: Do you see how pathetic your logic is? 15 years of story and all you can remember is 1 scene? You can't remember anything else from the story? Is that because you choose not to remember or that you live in your own headcanon so hard that you block out everything else?

They try to play coy, but the arguments are ALWAYS piss poor and they always fall back on "Well, at least she is not as bad as Sakura."

One Hinata fan literally said to me and I will quote this:
"Hinata is better than Sakura because she stays in her lane and does not get in the way, unlike Sakura."

I was like "Woah, so you're telling me that the reason you think Hinata is better is because when you tell her "Get back in the kitchen, this is a man's world" she listens to you? Holy crap are you sexist. Also, how come you say this about Hinata, but the one scene you LOVE about her is when she DOESN'T stay in her lane and gets in the way?"

What the hell are these people thinking?

Edited by James S Cassidy, 11 February 2020 - 09:20 AM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I really hate this argument. The "I don't deserve a guy like you" argument. It is so bad because it does nothing. "I don't deserve you because you are too nice to me. Now, I will ignore your feelings and focus all my attention on a guy who does the same to me: ignore me and treat me poorly."

I never understand this concept of falling in love with people who have no feelings for you whatsoever only to try and beat brow them into caring about you....but then turn around and tell another person that they should haven't feelings for you because you're not worth it. Like, you are literally telling people how they feel instead of asking them. If a girl does this, apparently it is cute and romantic, but if a guy does this...it is creepy and he is being oppressive.

To me I would look at both Sakura and Hinata and tell them both..."Until the time comes when you truly appreciate love for what it is...you both don't deserve any."



I understand young lovers can be stupid when they first experience love, but how many times has Sasuke said "no" and yet they still pushed him to be with Sakura and pushed Naruto to Hinata? Literally, it feels like not one person save for our group cared about what the guy's felt at all. All anyone else in the fandom cared about was what Hinata wanted and only slightly supported Sakura's feelings because "it got Naruto to be free to choose Hinata." It is the most asinine way of looking at love and this is how every views is romantic now. The guy's are abusive and the girls are obsessive. Yet, they deny any of this despite being on page.
 

 

Oh, I wish to portray that Sakura has been completly destroyed as a character. In fact, 99% of the characters in Naruto are a pale comparison to their former selves save for maybe the likes of Rock Lee and Temari.

It is just that, I stopped blaming the characters themselves and instead focused on the REAL issue of that Kishimoto bent the knee to Hinata's popularity because he had no balls and the fact that everything that occurred with the retcons and more are all for the sake of making Hinata SEEM like the best girl.

And believe me, the Hinata fanatics are still at it. I talk with fanatics that talk about how great Hinata and how bad Sakura is, but all they can remember is 2 scenes throughout the entire manga.

I literally stop the entire conversation and tell them: Do you see how pathetic your logic is? 15 years of story and all you can remember is 1 scene? You can't remember anything else from the story? Is that because you choose not to remember or that you live in your own headcanon so hard that you block out everything else?

They try to play coy, but the arguments are ALWAYS piss poor and they always fall back on "Well, at least she is not as bad as Sakura."

One Hinata fan literally said to me and I will quote this:
"Hinata is better than Sakura because she stays in her lane and does not get in the way."

I was like "Woah, so you're telling me that the reason you think HInata is better is because when you tell her "Get back in the Kitchen, this is a man's world" she listens to you? Holy crap, are you sexist. Also, how come you say this about Hinata, but the one scene you LOVE about her is when she DOESN'T stay in her lane and gets int he way?"

What the hell are these people thinking?

 

They're idiots who want to be 1,000% right no matter how asinine their arguments are, James. That's all there is to it!

[James S Cassidy]

 

They're idiots who want to be 1,000% right no matter how asinine their arguments are, James. That's all there is to it!

It is just funny trying to save face when they say the most sexist thing about Hinata and Sakura only to try and back-pedal saying "well, that's not what I meant. You took it out of context."

My response: "Well, you said it...you need to own it. You only like Hinata because she had big boobs and is submissive. End of story. You can't remember anything she does and the one thing you do remember you conflate that farther than even what she herself said it was."

[DrK]

It is just funny trying to save face when they say the most sexist thing about Hinata and Sakura only to try and back-pedal saying "well, that's not what I meant. You took it out of context."

My response: "Well, you said it...you need to own it. You only like Hinata because she had big boobs and is submissive. End of story. You can't remember anything she does and the one thing you do remember you conflate that farther than even what she herself said it was."

Even if you make armor piercing points like that one they are just going to dismiss everything you say through appeal to ridicule. You cannot win arguments against people who are closed-minded or not engaging with you in good faith. The most you can do is make them look stupid which is something they would do on their own.

[James S Cassidy]

Even if you make armor piercing points like that one they are just going to dismiss everything you say through appeal to ridicule. You cannot win arguments against people who are closed-minded or not engaging with you in good faith. The most you can do is make them look stupid which is something they would do on their own.

Winning is the easy part....it is trying to convince them they are wrong is the tricky one.

It is easy to win with the facts because...well, they apparently have never read the manga. They forget a vast majority of it in favor of what they deem as their canon. You don't know how many time they ask for proof and I pull it up almost instantaneously with them going "I don't remember that part."

Like I said....they can remember the Pain arc scene, but they don't remember Hinata saying "I am just being selfish."

Hell, they think Sakura would have lost her fight against Sasori if not for Chiyo, but Chiyo specifically says that Sakura could have won the fight with or without her. All Chiyo did was make it quicker to achieve victory. (And yes, I do have the panel where she says it)

The point is not to win...but to prove to them that they are NOT Naruto fans. They are Hinata fans.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 11 February 2020 - 10:02 AM.

[DrK]

Winning is the easy part....it is trying to convince them they are wrong is the tricky one.

But that is winning. Or at a minimum getting them to acknowledge your view as at least equal to theirs.

 

I have many times on the internet engaged with someone, and sometimes even in an entirely acerbic manner, but one of us still eventually says essentially "I respect your view/respect that you feel that way." And we both move on. We both win in a sense.

 

I doubt most Hinata stans are willing to give you even that.

Edited by DrK, 11 February 2020 - 10:11 AM.

[VanitasDS76491]

I really hate this argument. The "I don't deserve a guy like you" argument. It is so bad because it does nothing. "I don't deserve you because you are too nice to me. Now, I will ignore your feelings and focus all my attention on a guy who does the same to me: ignore me and treat me poorly."
I never understand this concept of falling in love with people who have no feelings for you whatsoever only to try and beat brow them into caring about you....but then turn around and tell another person that they shouldn't have feelings for you because you're not worth it. Like, you are literally telling people how they feel instead of asking them. If a girl does this apparently it is cute and romantic, but if a guy does this...it is creepy and he is being oppressive.
To me I would look at both Sakura and Hinata and tell them both..."Until the time comes when you truly appreciate love for what it is...you both don't deserve any."

I understand young lovers can be stupid when they first experience love, but how many times has Sasuke said "no" and yet they still pushed him to be with Sakura and pushed Naruto to Hinata? Literally, it feels like not one person save for our group cared about what the guys felt at all. All anyone else in the fandom cared about was what Hinata wanted and only slightly supported Sakura's feelings because "it got Naruto to be free to choose Hinata." It is the most asinine way of looking at love and this is how every one views as romantic now. The guy's are abusive and the girls are obsessive. Yet, they deny any of this despite being on the pages.
 
 

Oh, I wish to portray that Sakura has been completely destroyed as a character. In fact, 99% of the characters in Naruto are a pale comparison to their former selves save for maybe the likes of Rock Lee and Temari.
It is just that I stopped blaming the characters themselves and instead focused on the REAL issue of that Kishimoto bent the knee to Hinata's popularity because he had no balls and the fact that everything that occurred with the retcons and more are all for the sake of making Hinata SEEM like the best girl.
And believe me, the Hinata fanatics are still at it. I talk with fanatics that talk about how great Hinata is and how bad Sakura is, but all they can remember is 2 scenes throughout the entire manga.
I literally stop the entire conversation and tell them: Do you see how pathetic your logic is? 15 years of story and all you can remember is 1 scene? You can't remember anything else from the story? Is that because you choose not to remember or that you live in your own headcanon so hard that you block out everything else?
They try to play coy, but the arguments are ALWAYS piss poor and they always fall back on "Well, at least she is not as bad as Sakura."
One Hinata fan literally said to me and I will quote this:
"Hinata is better than Sakura because she stays in her lane and does not get in the way, unlike Sakura."
I was like "Woah, so you're telling me that the reason you think Hinata is better is because when you tell her "Get back in the kitchen, this is a man's world" she listens to you? Holy crap are you sexist. Also, how come you say this about Hinata, but the one scene you LOVE about her is when she DOESN'T stay in her lane and gets in the way?"
What the hell are these people thinking?

Agreed NH fans are the worst and don't listen I know I've gotten into fights on da over this and I'm convinced they got a commission I payed for removed on da cause it had himawari ripped in half by a super ripped shina that is evil and him holding bolt by the throat saying hinata caused him to be a monster.

[VanitasDS76491]

Winning is the easy part....it is trying to convince them they are wrong is the tricky one.
It is easy to win with the facts because...well, they apparently have never read the manga. They forget a vast majority of it in favor of what they deem as their canon. You don't know how many time they ask for proof and I pull it up almost instantaneously with them going "I don't remember that part."
Like I said....they can remember the Pain arc scene, but they don't remember Hinata saying "I am just being selfish."
Hell, they think Sakura would have lost her fight against Sasori if not for Chiyo, but Chiyo specifically says that Sakura could have won the fight with or without her. All Chiyo did was make it quicker to achieve victory. (And yes, I do have the panel where she says it)
The point is not to win...but to prove to them that they are NOT Naruto fans. They are Hinata fans.

Also chiyo one arm was rendered useless from the iron sand so her using Sakura as a puppet was really all she could do and it's not like Sakura was useless in that fight her and chiyo did equal work. Plus Sakura also found a cure for sasori poison something he had to remember the dosage has hinata done anything like that.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Also chiyo one arm was rendered useless from the iron sand so her using Sakura as a puppet was really all she could do and it's not like Sakura was useless in that fight her and chiyo did equal work. Plus Sakura also found a cure for sasori poison something he had to remember the dosage has hinata done anything like that.

 

Yeah. Chiyo even said that Tsunade was only one of the few who could make an antidote for Sasori's poison, while Sakura was able to figure it out thanks to her training under Tsunade, and also her own brilliant intellect too.

[James S Cassidy]

But that is winning. Or at a minimum getting them to acknowledge your view as at least equal to theirs.

 

I have many times on the internet engaged with someone, and sometimes even in an entirely acerbic manner, but one of us still eventually says essentially "I respect your view/respect that you feel that way." And we both move on. We both win in a sense.

 

I doubt most Hinata stans are willing to give you even that.

Battles and Wars, my friend.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 11 February 2020 - 09:05 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Battles and Wars, my friend.

Yep! Sometimes in this kind of scenario, you gotta pick and choose what you want to get across, even to those who wont pull the mittens out of their ears to listen to you.

[Phantom_999]

 

I would if people would have like Sakura if she was shy, had big boobs and had a crush on Naruto from the start.

 

YES. Key factors being, liked Naruto form the start, and didn't go gaga over resident bad boy Sasuke Uchiha. Even if Hinata were to exist after that there would only be wars on who is better for Naruto than there would be merciless bashing of Sakura as a character and her integrity. Just saying. 

[LuckyChi7]

So my best friend and I were having a discussion about Sakura, and he brought up something about Sakura which led to an interesting conversation.

 

 

I was telling him about why fans were bashing on her since the beginning and why she didn't really go through a lot of development in the story from a retrospective standpoint, and when she did it backfired because of how the ending turned out. 

 

 

He told me for that those fans don't understand what Kishi was interpreting for her character, and it made sense for Sakura to be the character that she ultimately ended up becoming in the end. She was never given that badass status and that's what Kishi wanted because she was the smartest, but not a total badass.

 

The biggest reason he brings up was that Naruto is an emotional series thus her being the way she is makes sense and that includes the excessive flashbacks (uchiha hideout, naruto and sasuke, etc.) in the story we got too because of the realistic aspect it brings with the real world standpoint like naruto and sasuke's bond, sakura's love for sasuke, and hinata's love for naruto. Love works in mysterious ways from a real world schematic because it's not about the person you spend the most time with it's about the person who truly loves you from the good and bad times and sometimes the one that's important isn't the one you realize it to be. 

 

 

Which okay I get that perspective when it comes to love, but it's a mutual thing, where you and someone special reach to that certain point which is something NaruHina and SasuSaku don't quite frankly have. I mean let's face it NaruHina could've happened at the end of war, but nope Hinata didn't talk with Naruto about the confession until two years later which quite frankly wasn't on his mind. Then you've got SasuSaku which many of us can already see the issues with that specific relationship.

 

Bottom line is,  you reach a certain point where it goes too far in Sakura's case for Sasuke where he didn't care until literally the last minute, and the same thing can be said about Naruto's connection to Hinata too. That's particularly why I love the relationship between Naruto and Sakura because that to me is accurate when it comes to love.   

[VanitasDS76491]

Yeah. Chiyo even said that Tsunade was only one of the few who could make an antidote for Sasori's poison, while Sakura was able to figure it out thanks to her training under Tsunade, and also her own brilliant intellect too.

Yes I don't see hinata doing any of that.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Bottom line is,  you reach a certain point where it goes too far in Sakura's case for Sasuke where he didn't care until literally the last minute, and the same thing can be said about Naruto's connection to Hinata too. That's particularly why I love the relationship between Naruto and Sakura because that to me is accurate when it comes to love.   

 

I know what you mean, Chi. I read your whole comment and with your friend, I was thinking "For real?" with what he was trying to get at. And that's the rub with NaruHina and SasuSaku, as well as the big difference between NH and NS. The fact NS actually, REALLY has a connection because of the growth both have, and Sakura letting go of her preconceived notions of how Naruto is, as well as seeing how bad Sasuke is for her, and how he doesn't really care about her the way Naruto does, and when he does show it a lot of times, it's only for HIS benefit, like when he complimented Sakura's Genjutsu skills before the Chunin Exams.

[James S Cassidy]

The biggest reason he brings up was that Naruto is an emotional series thus her being the way she is makes sense and that includes the excessive flashbacks (uchiha hideout, naruto and sasuke, etc.) in the story we got too because of the realistic aspect it brings with the real world standpoint like naruto and sasuke's bond, sakura's love for sasuke, and hinata's love for naruto. Love works in mysterious ways from a real world schematic because it's not about the person you spend the most time with it's about the person who truly loves you from the good and bad times and sometimes the one that's important isn't the one you realize it to be.

Oh that is kitten and they know it.

You know what is also realistic? Divorce and falling out of love with someone. Does that mean NH and SS should get a divorce and have custody battles? Sasuke would be like with a heavy sarcastic tone: "No, don't take my child, please." And then just up and leave.

This "love works in mysterious ways" is about how you find your true love in unorthodox ways like bumping into each other at a random location. This person's logic is completely stupid. I'm sorry, but it is. Sasuke had not a single mutual love for Sakura and Kishimoto said himself he has no reason why she loves him. I'm sorry, but this person has not experienced true love if he thinks this is how love works.

You're going to fall in love with the wrong person. It happens to everyone. I am sure we all have that one crush you had where it didn't work out or a relationship that ends badly.

I dare this person....I dare this person to get married to a person that spends NO TIME with them and see how they feel. No intimacy, no moments with them, nothing. Now do it for 15 years straight. Any realistic person would go crazy or begin to cheat on their spouse. Why not have your friend tell that to all our military boys who lost their girlfriends because they got deployed for 2 years or more and their girlfriend's cheated on them because if the lack of attention and intimacy?

Sasuke left for 15 years, never contacted Sakura, and every time he was in town he avoided him like the plague. It got so bad that even Naruto said :"Would it kill you to go home every once and a while?" Again Kishimoto said it: "He deals with it by not being home." I highly doubt how realistic it is given all the facts.

I have seen couples cheat over less or break up over less and I have seen marriages get ruined over less. It CAN be realistic but you know what they call this? Stockholm syndrome. No sane person would still be in a relationship like NH and SS.

"It is so realistic."
pff...yeah, it is so realistic that a girl would stay in love with a guy who abuses her physically and mentally, attempt to murder her multiple times, and this is even before they get married and have a kid to which he ignores the family, pays no bills, and just up and leaves.

How many songs do we have about breaks up and more about all of this based off just simple neglect?
 

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

I don't see Hinata pulling a Kairi in ReMind.