54175 replies to this topic

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Ramen guy had done
More for Naruto than Hinata at the point that Pain attacked.

 

omg yes! 

 

Oh, God, I forgot about Mr. Teuchi, since he didn't care if Naruto was a Jinchuriki or not, he just saw him as someone who was starving and who everyone else was cruel to just because of what he was without trying to give him a chance to do anything. SO I wanna say thanks so much for reminding me of him, ladies!

Edited by Bryon_Konoha_Ninja, 28 January 2020 - 07:46 AM.

[Kagomaru]

A random villager who treated Naruto badly as a kid, but had since learned his lesson and wanted to atone would have been a better and more meaningful option than Hinatatas.

Actually, yeah, seeing the villagers stand up in defense of Naruto against Pain would've been far more impactful and meaningful. Not only would've emphasized the "Will of Fire" that Konoha denizens are supposed to be known for, but it would've demonstrated how the villagers have grown beyond their prejudices towards Naruto and recognize him as one of their own. 

[VanitasDS76491]

Actually, yeah, seeing the villagers stand up in defense of Naruto against Pain would've been far more impactful and meaningful. Not only would've emphasized the "Will of Fire" that Konoha denizens are supposed to be known for, but it would've demonstrated how the villagers have grown beyond their prejudices towards Naruto and recognize him as one of their own.

Funny that teuchi and his daughter and iruka had more impacted on Naruto life than hinata.
Plus anyone think Naruto even cared how many people had to die for his obsession with sasuke.

[catsi563]

He did and didnt care 

 

the Naruto in the series was selfless almost too selfless he was willing to sacrafice everything for Sasuke. and that is the major issue, he had no concept of the long term effects of his actions and was all about immediate gratification 

 

if he didnt gert Sasuike back then and there he was a failure

if he didnt gert Sakura on a date he failed

 

 

basically he let himsefl become a legacy of immediate failures which he had to be pulled out of and set back on couse by others reminding him to keep on trucking. the problem with this was while he did care about people he would get so caught up in his immediate goal of this or that, that he would tunnel vision on said goal forgetting that other people and things exsisted 

[Tsuki Hoshino]

A variety of genin almost died trying to get Sasuke back the first time and it still didn't change anyone's mind. Plot armor taken to retarded extremes imo.

[tricksie]

He did and didnt care 

 

the Naruto in the series was selfless almost too selfless he was willing to sacrafice everything for Sasuke. and that is the major issue, he had no concept of the long term effects of his actions and was all about immediate gratification 

 

if he didnt gert Sasuike back then and there he was a failure

if he didnt gert Sakura on a date he failed

 

 

basically he let himsefl become a legacy of immediate failures which he had to be pulled out of and set back on couse by others reminding him to keep on trucking. the problem with this was while he did care about people he would get so caught up in his immediate goal of this or that, that he would tunnel vision on said goal forgetting that other people and things exsisted 

Yeah - it would have been interesting to have Jiraiya come back and connect with Naruto on letting go of your old teammateand moving on.

 

After all, Jiraiya is supposed to have left the village and turned down the Kage position (which the Third was wanted him to take) so that he could follow Orochimaru around and either a) try to make him see the light, or b) stop him from harming others. Well, Jiraiya failed on both counts didn't he? Cause he didn't ever change - in fact he only got worse and started capturing and locking people up for medical experiments, and got so big he apparently formed his own country (Sound). And he harmed others in a massive way — including coming back, attacking the village, killing the Sandaime (his former teacher) and the leaders of Sand, as well as scores of other nins. 

 

Jiraiya failed in bringing Orochimaru back, and he failed in protecting the ones he loved. And Orochimaru went on to 'poison' Sasuke and make him defect the village, causing the whole cycle to continue. 

 

I know he's dead...but that apparently never stopped anyone in the Narutoverse from coming back!! So it would be interesting to see Jiraiya come back and say "You know, if I had just killed Orochimaru way back when...then AAAALLLLLLL these people would still be alive...."

 

Instead, we get to see Naruto paying the price for Jiraiya's mistakes, and reliving the whole cycle! Ugh!

[DrK]

After all, Jiraiya is supposed to have left the village and turned down the Kage position (which the Third was wanted him to take) so that he could follow Orochimaru around and either a) try to make him see the light, or b) stop him from harming others. Well, Jiraiya failed on both counts didn't he? Cause he didn't ever change - in fact he only got worse and started capturing and locking people up for medical experiments, and got so big he apparently formed his own country (Sound). And he harmed others in a massive way — including coming back, attacking the village, killing the Sandaime (his former teacher) and the leaders of Sand, as well as scores of other nins. 

 

I know he's dead...but that apparently never stopped anyone in the Narutoverse from coming back!! So it would be interesting to see Jiraiya come back and say "You know, if I had just killed Orochimaru way back when...then AAAALLLLLLL these people would still be alive...."

Was that what he was supposed to be doing? I didn't know that, honestly (either that or I had forgotten.) I remember a scene where the Third had the opportunity to deal with Orochimaru but didn't, but I don't remember Jiraiya having the chance to do so.

 

Or was that filler? Eh, I guess it doesn't matter.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Yeah - it would have been interesting to have Jiraiya come back and connect with Naruto on letting go of your old teammateand moving on.

 

After all, Jiraiya is supposed to have left the village and turned down the Kage position (which the Third was wanted him to take) so that he could follow Orochimaru around and either a) try to make him see the light, or b) stop him from harming others. Well, Jiraiya failed on both counts didn't he? Cause he didn't ever change - in fact he only got worse and started capturing and locking people up for medical experiments, and got so big he apparently formed his own country (Sound). And he harmed others in a massive way — including coming back, attacking the village, killing the Sandaime (his former teacher) and the leaders of Sand, as well as scores of other nins. 

 

Jiraiya failed in bringing Orochimaru back, and he failed in protecting the ones he loved. And Orochimaru went on to 'poison' Sasuke and make him defect the village, causing the whole cycle to continue. 

 

I know he's dead...but that apparently never stopped anyone in the Narutoverse from coming back!! So it would be interesting to see Jiraiya come back and say "You know, if I had just killed Orochimaru way back when...then AAAALLLLLLL these people would still be alive...."

 

Instead, we get to see Naruto paying the price for Jiraiya's mistakes, and reliving the whole cycle! Ugh!

 

I know what you mean, Tricksie. Especially considering Jiraiya tried to convince Naruto to do what he was trying to do with Orochimaru, but Naruto still somehow managed to reach Sasuke, even if it was convoluted as **** when he did do it too! But we also saw too how Jiraiya, before his death, realized how Naruto was better since for his faults, he chose to not give up and realized as his teacher, he needed to do the same. 

 

I also do wish there was more times Jiraiya showed he believed in Naruto, since it was few and between, especially when he was first teaching him the Summoning Jutsu, without thinking Naruto is NOT his dad or his mom, he's himself, and that he couldn't even just rely on Kurama's chakra alone all the time.

 

 

Was that what he was supposed to be doing? I didn't know that, honestly (either that or I had forgotten.) I remember a scene where the Third had the opportunity to deal with Orochimaru but didn't, but I don't remember Jiraiya having the chance to do so.

 

Or was that filler? Eh, I guess it doesn't matter.

 

Jiraiya kept tabs on Orochimaru after he escaped, and he did try to stop him after Hiruzen found him doing his experiments to complete the Immortality Jutsu, but Jiraiya never did try to stop Orochimaru directly, only when he confronted him. Hell, we saw Hiruzen do more by taking away Orochimaru's arms temporarily with the Reaper Death Seal.

[Derock]

The one thing Masashi never EVER revealed in regards to Jiraiya (getting off-topic a bit) is this:

 

Remember that spy network he has? We never ever see or even receive a mention of it in the entire franchise!!!

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Well that's like Sasori's grudge against orochimaru and his own spy network. He didnt just "have" Kabuto under his "control" but others too and it all basically went nowhere

Spies are just side notes for kishimoto where for real ninjas they were bread and butter.

[Phantom_999]

Like I said for a story about Ninjas he used the term "ninjas" VERY LOOSELY. stealth stopped becoming a thing all the way back since the fight against Zabuza. Spying, infiltration, and information gathering were just just thrown around like everyday tasks but you NEVER SEE IT with the main characters, or even named characters. In fact it only applies to unnamed Anbu members no one cares about. Truly, ninjas were not even a thing in Naruto, it was just a throw away line to sound cool because no actual character acted as such, and the fights became such stereotypical loud flashy bang bang like affairs in cliche shonen fashion you think to your self, "Oh yeah that is totally ninja-like! Very stealthy and "kitten".

 

Funny that teuchi and his daughter and iruka had more impacted on Naruto life than hinata.

Plus anyone think Naruto even cared how many people had to die for his obsession with sasuke.

 

Does it look like it in "Boruto"? Just saying

 

BUT, my constant yaoi jokes about those two aside, I have always considered the "bond" those two have to be the most P*** @SS sorry excuse of writing to be incorporated into the entire series. The bond between them is all hearsay and all just talked about, not shown through actions. Naruto's obsession with Sasuke doesn't sound like anything a "friend" would do and comes off as a little "kitten trying to satisfy his own ego". Sasuke has never treated Naruto as anything more than a pest that wasn't worth his attention or as a measuring stick on how far he has to go to kill his brother and has his pride broken when Naruto proves to have progressed father than him and combined with the fact Itachi ignored him like a fly plus that showing there was no no gap closed between them is why he sought out Orochimaru in the first place. It all went down hill from there. NOTHING speaks to me that these two were ever best friends in their behaviour which is why I don't even accept that notion

Edited by Phantom_999, 09 February 2020 - 04:16 AM.

[tricksie]

 

I know what you mean, Tricksie. Especially considering Jiraiya tried to convince Naruto to do what he was trying to do with Orochimaru, but Naruto still somehow managed to reach Sasuke, even if it was convoluted as **** when he did do it too! But we also saw too how Jiraiya, before his death, realized how Naruto was better since for his faults, he chose to not give up and realized as his teacher, he needed to do the same. 

 

I also do wish there was more times Jiraiya showed he believed in Naruto, since it was few and between, especially when he was first teaching him the Summoning Jutsu, without thinking Naruto is NOT his dad or his mom, he's himself, and that he couldn't even just rely on Kurama's chakra alone all the time.

 

 

 

Jiraiya kept tabs on Orochimaru after he escaped, and he did try to stop him after Hiruzen found him doing his experiments to complete the Immortality Jutsu, but Jiraiya never did try to stop Orochimaru directly, only when he confronted him. Hell, we saw Hiruzen do more by taking away Orochimaru's arms temporarily with the Reaper Death Seal.

 

You know, I don't even remember Jiraiya and Orochimaru having any big scenes together. Like, for that to be Jiriaya's whole motivation (stopping Orochimaru somehow), you would think that at one point that storyline would have to come to some kind of fruition. Either they meet and fight, or Jiraiya admits to Naruto that he no longer wants to pursue Oro. Any scenario would be fine. I remember him being there when Tsunade fought him, but he was there as an advocate for Tsunade, not to stop Orochimaru. 

 

The one thing Masashi never EVER revealed in regards to Jiraiya (getting off-topic a bit) is this:

 

Remember that spy network he has? We never ever see or even receive a mention of it in the entire franchise!!!

Yeah... the famous spy network. Like all things in the series, that went nowhere. There could have been so many more double agents, so much more espionage to liven the whole plot up. There could have been someone who inherited Jiraiya's network on the good side, same as Sasori on the bad side. Would have been have added a level of complexity to the plot after the Pein arc wrapped up, and built in plot arcs for Sakura or the rookies — to either participate in or fight against. It's a shame Kishi let it drop. But honestly, I think he stopped 'writing' Naruto and just started dragging it out after Pein. There were no more major arcs, only minor ones. 

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

 

Like I said for a story about Ninjas he used term "ninjas" VERY LOOSELY. stealth stopped becoming a thing all the way back to the fight against Zabusa. Spying, infiltration, and information gathering were just just thrown around like everyday tasks but you NEVER SEE IT with the main characters,or even named characters. In fact it only applies to unnamed Anbu members no one cares about. Truly ninjas were not even a thing in Naruto, it was just a throw away line to sound cool because no actual character acted as such, and the fights became such typical loud flashy bang bang like affairs in typical shonen fashion you think to your self, "oh yeah that is totally ninja-like!, Very stealthy and "kitten".

 

And where an "assassination technique" is bright, loud, and leaves one wide open for counterattack regardless of whether it hits or not.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

And where an "assassination technique" is bright, loud, and leaves one wide open for counterattack regardless of whether it hits or not.

 

Yeah, no ****. Chidori/Lightning Blade anyone? Speed of it not withstanding, it's like "How the hell is this an assassination Jutsu...??"

[Derock]

 

Yeah... the famous spy network. Like all things in the series, that went nowhere. There could have been so many more double agents, so much more espionage to liven the whole plot up. There could have been someone who inherited Jiraiya's network on the good side, same as Sasori on the bad side. Would have been have added a level of complexity to the plot after the Pein arc wrapped up, and built in plot arcs for Sakura or the rookies — to either participate in or fight against. It's a shame Kishi let it drop. But honestly, I think he stopped 'writing' Naruto and just started dragging it out after Pein. There were no more major arcs, only minor ones. 

There were more stuff that the team ignore. The ninja with the demon masks that Danzo defeated... ugh would've been a potential plot point, wasted!

[tricksie]

Uh yeah, not to mention the big finale of the whole manga is a giant, army-style ninja war, with massed troops right out in the open. lol.

 

I always imagined the other ninja wars to be fought silently, behind the scenes, through cloak-and-dagger assasinations and out-of-sight ambushes. And no one even knows it's going on, until suddenly whole clans start disappearing on their missions; or a farmer walks into a once-thriving merchant town with his goods to sell only to find it abandoned; or a whole village is obliterated in the night (a la Whirlpool). That to me is a ninja war. 

[Tsuki Hoshino]

The war arc made 0 sense from a Tactical stand point. In what world do you create squadrons of all "distance fighters" like Kankurou's and all close range like kakashi's vs the swordsmen?

Irl they would have been mixed with long,close and support members to become more well rounded units.

Sakura knocking out her own comrades to kill Sasuke was probably the last most ninja thing that occured in the series and before that it was her taking Sasori out.

Out of team 7 Sakura is obvs the most ninja

[DrK]

Uh yeah, not to mention the big finale of the whole manga is a giant, army-style ninja war, with massed troops right out in the open. lol.

 

I always imagined the other ninja wars to be fought silently, behind the scenes, through cloak-and-dagger assasinations and out-of-sight ambushes. And no one even knows it's going on, until suddenly whole clans start disappearing on their missions; or a farmer walks into a once-thriving merchant town with his goods to sell only to find it abandoned; or a whole village is obliterated in the night (a la Whirlpool). That to me is a ninja war. 

Well, the previous ones were mostly about one guy fighting like a zillion troops by himself. Like the Nidaime fighting a whole army and eventually dying, whichever Raikage doing the same and dying, Minato doing the same and actually WINNING, only to wind up being killed by the Coolest Guy... etc.

[VanitasDS76491]

Like I said for a story about Ninjas he used term "ninjas" VERY LOOSELY. stealth stopped becoming a thing all the way back to the fight against Zabusa. Spying, infiltration, and information gathering were just just thrown around like everyday tasks but you NEVER SEE IT with the main characters,or even named characters. In fact it only applies to unnamed Anbu members no one cares about. Truly ninjas were not even a thing in Naruto, it was just a throw away line to sound cool because no actual character acted as such, and the fights became such typical loud flashy bang bang like affairs in typical shonen fashion you think to your self, "oh yeah that is totally ninja-like!, Very stealthy and "kitten".
 



 
Does it look like it in "Boruto"? Just saying
 
BUT, my constant yaoi jokes about those two aside, I have always considered the "bond" those two have to be the most P*** @SS sorry excuse of writing to be incorporated into the entire series. The bond between them is all hearsay and all just talked about, not through actions. Naruto's obsession with Sasuke doesn't sound like anything a "friend" would do and comes off as a little "kitten trying to satisfy his own ego". Sasuke has never treated Naruto as anything more than a pest that wasn't worth his attention or as a measuring stick on how far he has to go to kill his brother is has his pride broken when Naruto proves to have progressed father than him and combined with the fact Itachi ignored him like a fly plus that showing there was no no gap closed between them is why he sought out Orochimaru in the first place. It all went down hill from there. NOTHING speaks to me that these two were ever best friends in their behaviour which is why I don't even accept that notion

I don't watch bourto so I don't know if you he does or dosent care.

[Bail o' Lies]

Sakura knocking out her own comrades to kill Sasuke was probably the last most ninja thing that occurred in the series and before that it was her taking Sasori out.

Honestly, it was. She used deception, distraction, manipulation, playing them against each other, positioning them in an ideal spot so when she made her move against them she would gain the maximum benefit, used a tool to accomplish defeating them the fastest, and then moved forward towards her objective without delay.