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Dragon Ball vs. Naruto - Who Will Win?

Dragon Ball Naruto Who Will Win The End

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#1 Nostradamus

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 02:58 AM

So who will the battle of the ages? Stay tuned on the next episode of Dragon Ball Z. XD

Ok, ok let's get serious now. This isn't really a thread about who would win, even though I called it that way.

It's actually about something that I wanted to talk about for quite a while now. As most of you know Dragon Ball Super ended a couple of months ago, and I want to talk about how the ending to Dragon Ball Super made me feel and how the ending to Naruto made me feel. But I couldn't do it back then since I've things to do and also something happened with my health that doesn't allow me to do what I want.

 

I'm going to start with DB. Now some of you may or may not know that Super is under Toriyama's supervision. And unlike Kishimoto; Toriyama actually got involved in the process of making Super.

He wrote bullet points and the people working on Super had to follow those points. He wasn't the one that wrote episode after episode, just gave a summary of his vision and then off to the races. He actually was pretty involved in it.

But for the last two episodes he took charge and we can see that. The difference is instantly noticeable.

 

Now I'm not going to praise Toriyama for being this great writer because he isn't. And anyone who actually says he is, doesn't understanding writing.

However he does do one thing really good, but before I talk about that let's talk about what happens in the episodes for the ones who haven't watched them. So spoilers ahead.

Not going through every single moment, just specific moments. In less than 2 minutes he captures the essences of Goku perfectly through flashbacks. Something that Kishi would need 10 chapters or the anime will need several episodes to do and still it wouldn't be a match to what Toriyama does.

 

Goku finally defeats Jiren, but his body gives up before he could eliminate Jiren. Goku is about to get eliminated and the one who saves him is Frieza the most ruthless of them all.

17 and Frieza take on Jiren, manage to bring him to his knees, but Jiren overpowers them. We see 17 and Frieza trying their best to hold Jiren's monstrous power, as we see a struggling Goku trying to get up and just in the nick of time our hero saves 17 and Frieza. Then we see something that I never thought I would ever see on Dragon Ball.

 

Goku and Frieza working side by side as team and working well together. Together Goku and Frieza with the help of 17 manage to eliminate Jiren. We see Frieza in his final form while Goku is fading in and out of Super Saiyan. A reminder of Namek.

17 as the last member of Universe 7 gets to make the wish and everyone is brought back. We see Whis reviving Frieza as a thank you for all he did, and Frieza says he won't change his ways. Then we see the 5 warriors that fought him on Namek, as Goku says if that happens he will defeat him.

We get the credits and they wrap everything so nicely. And just to be in fashion with what other pieces of media do, they also have two after credits scenes. The first one is the Emperor of the Universe returning, while the second one is Goku and Vegeta fighting and standing in the exact poses that they did in the manga when they first fought.

 

Now let's talk about what I felt when I watched these two episodes. When I was watching those two episodes, especially the last episode. I felt like I was a kid again that just came home from school and turned on the tv to watch DB. It really managed to make me feel nostalgic and happy at the same time. The entire time I had this grin on my face. It was exactly what I wanted and more. It managed to make me happy about an ending. Because what Toriyama does really well, is that he knows how to end a story in such a way that it doesn't really end. The story continues because like life itself, it's never the end. Life goes on, things continue to move. And Toriyama showcases that well. While Super came to an end, the story in DB continues. New adventures and new opponents are on the horizon.

 

And both times he ended DB, he never ended it on a "Here's some kids in order to continue selling merchandise" note. He always ended on the note that there are still plenty of adventures left for Goku and everyone else.

 

Moving on to Naruto. I'm not going to discuss what happened in the ending of it, because we all know. And I'm not going to talk about why it's bad and how it doesn't make sense. Because I've already talked about that several times, and you guys and gals have done that so many times.

I am however going to mention what I've felt after I read those two last chapters.

For those of you who read my rants, you know those really really really long ones. I did cover a bit of what I felt in those, but I never talked about it properly because honestly at that moment, I didn't quite knew what that was.

 

For an entire week I felt weird. Like things just didn't seem the same. everything just felt off. Weird.

And it wasn't until a couple of months ago that I thought about it and realized what it was.

It was depression. I know, I know it sounds weird, how could you get depressed from a fictional story?

Well that's what happens when you invest yourself emotionally in it and you really like it.

But it is what it is. And Naruto's ending instead of bringing joy. Brought sadness and depression.

 

Interesting, isn't it?

One ending brings hope while the other brings destruction. And Naruto is mirrored after Dragon Ball.


Edited by Nostradamus, 13 November 2018 - 03:07 AM.

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Which I've told you - time and time again - is dangerous! There will never be consensus, son, among those you have helped to ascend. They will all differ in their views of what it means to be free. The peace you so desperately seek does not exist.
 
These men are united now by a common cause. But when this battle is finished they will fall to fighting amongst themselves about how best to ensure control. In time it will lead to war. You will see.

#2 Phantom_999

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 06:29 AM

My thoughts are simple

Naruto- ended with themes that were just ham-fisted in to sound deep and philosophical but amounted to nothing. Has a sequel with an annoying, self-entitled, whiny, preachy, hypocritical brat as the main character. Ended the way it did to appease idiot, weaboo, japanese-wannabe fans with which most of them don't pay a cent to supporting the franchise.

Dragon Ball- simple fun. Terribly inconsistent, but at least no-one, not even the creator insults the fans' intelligence by forcing a reason for the BS down the audiences throats. Doesn't pretend to be what it's not. The characters remain or become LIKABLE by the end.

No more comments.


Edited by Phantom_999, 01 December 2018 - 03:12 PM.

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#3 Yyubie

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 09:46 AM

For me :

 

DBS : I saw the ending , good fight good graphic animation. That's the only thing i like about this , story doesn't make sense (i stop watching after zamas). Power level doesn't make sense , this Jiren beat goku full power but android 17 can stand toe to toe with him :lmao: . Too many hair color , let's see now we have black , yellow , green , blue , red (what's next hair color they gonna make ? purple ?) for me it's silly i lost that sense of epicness when i see Goku turn SSJ for the first time and now seeing DBS it's like watching a party with MC Donald clown ... too many bright color. I feel like DBS rob me away of my childhood.

 

Naruto : I feel like i lost my soul and my hope after watching the ending , legit i can't sleep for 3 days 2 night. The ending is so bad to the point that it affect my relationship with my girlfriend (now shes my wife). I became paranoid i feel like i'm going to lose her and i always have these negative thought that shes cheating on me all the time. Naturally this affect my job as well , i got yelled by my boss because i'm distracted. It's basically like when you sick and your tongue lose some of it's function , even food that usually taste good suddenly taste bad , salt taste bitter , etc. This going on for a month , i keep refreshing this site i'm a lurker that time my mistake was i'm too shy to make an account so when chapter 700 hit this site was on complete lockdown i can't enter. The best way to put it is like reading a cheating story where the evil guy steal the main protagonist love interest , it's like that evil dude trying to rape Asuna in front of Kirito in Sword Art Online ... it breaks my mind. For me the ending of Naruto is able too change me into a worse person , if not by the support of people around me i might be a criminal right now.

 

Expectations , i got betrayed by my own expectation and ideology that THERE IS ALWAYS HAPPY ENDING ON EVERY STORY AND BAD GUY WIN AT FIRST BUT IN THE END GOOD GUY WILL COME BACK AND WIN LAST BECAUSE HERO IS ALWAYS LATE. I watch too many disney movies when i was a kid , i thought that hero and good/justice always prevail at the ending. The ending of Naruto is painful but it help me open my eyes , i realize how naive i was , i realize that this world is not that pretty. Dragon Ball of course have better ending but still far from good.


Edited by Yyubie, 13 November 2018 - 09:50 AM.

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#4 Nostradamus

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 03:29 PM

By no means do I want to say that DB has a great story or that its endings are amazing in writing quality. That wasn't the point.

It's just that it managed to deliver on what it knew it had. And it managed to give me the satisfaction I wanted.

It never went into philosophical nonsense that it knew it couldn't handle. It was simple straight to the point.

 

Naruto went into a more mature direction or at least wanted to go in that direction, and in the end couldn't deliver on that, but not only that it couldn't deliver, but it also did things a lot worse than they ever were. To the point in which not even the good parts that it had can't be fondly remembered.


                               Posted Image
 
Which I've told you - time and time again - is dangerous! There will never be consensus, son, among those you have helped to ascend. They will all differ in their views of what it means to be free. The peace you so desperately seek does not exist.
 
These men are united now by a common cause. But when this battle is finished they will fall to fighting amongst themselves about how best to ensure control. In time it will lead to war. You will see.

#5 James S Cassidy

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 08:47 PM

Hmmm..

Well, let me first start by saying that Dragonball and Naruto are certainly very different. Not in the sense of story, but of structure. Dragonball more or less defined the modern Shonen writing structure. So I have to give lenience to some aspects of Dragonball because it is essentially the first of its kind. Similar to like Superman and superheroes we know today.

Dragonball - Series I grew up with and very nostalgic. It was good for a while and it was all pretty awesome, but when Buu Saga came about I was miffed by how confusing it got. Powers seems to just sprout and it felt everything was pointless. Gohan goes to Kai world to pull out a sword called the Z-sword which when broken revealed a Great Kai that can super power people up by use of a weird dance and techniques? Not much of an explanation. Supposedly was supposed to make Gohan amazing, but Gohan still lost so what was the point? It just had weird stuff that didn't make sense and the rules kept changing like Buu eating everyone else and they die, but east Goten, Trunks, and Gohan and they survive? Along with even Goku and Vegeta. Weird.

Dragonball Super was interesting when it started, but after a while it got anti-climatic. Everyone kept saying how powerful Goku was, but the fact that people would match him or better him with little effort or just a small bit of training made Goku's power seem trivial. I mean, to this day, people don't know whether SSJGSS or SSJ4 is more powerful.

Naruto - Take everything wrong with Dragonball and crank it to 11. Naruto is like a goth rocker who makes these horrible songs and then tells everyone "You don't understand true meaning" despite mostly everyone say it is horrible.

Dragonball is better. Dragonball is easier to follow, the characters are more likable, and even if the plots fall flat at times it never tries to act like it is smarter than the viewer. It is basically a story where if you shut off you brain and just watch, you can find plenty of enjoyment and awesomeness. Kind of like Micheal Bay films. Sure the plots are very flat, but hell if it is not good action. I can;t follow Naruto anymore because the story keeps changing every time a new chapter comes out.

Naruto's personality changes every single chapter from huge d-bag to somewhat caring soul (as long as it is not his own family.) Goku may be a man child idiot, but he stays a man child idiot.

I even think Sword Art Online is a better story because at least the characters don't do a 180. I mean, damn, I can't think of very many stories that are actually better than Naruto. It just might be the worst manga/anime I have ever seen with the biggest wasted potential since Ghostbusters 2016.

It all comes down to whether or not the story insults you or leads you. I can take a story that leads into a way of thinking. Like, I can see them making rules, however unrealistic, to better the suit the story, but when you first establish rules and then break those very rules, then stuff goes wrong. Worse still when it breaks its own rules and then insults you for not understanding. This is where alot of people had a problem with movies like The Last Jedi.





 


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#6 DrK

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Posted 19 November 2018 - 04:12 AM

I mean... A good point for DB is that the characters are still basically good people, and it's possible to like them.



#7 Frankie

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 12:17 AM

I mean... A good point for DB is that the characters are still basically good people, and it's possible to like them.


Eh, I can't even like most of the Dragonball cast simply because they're all idiots. Not in the book smarts way, but in the, "Damn, we should probably all gang up on this guy to win, but Goku over there wants to do it alone, so kitten it, let him."

A better example would be how Goku essentially makes things worse all the time, yet nobody ever calls him out on his kitten. And how he and Vegeta always prioritize their pride of fighting alone over the safety/logistics of the life and death situations they find themselves in and everyone is always okay with it, completely blind how Goku and Vegeta, mostly, are terrible morons.

In short, I can't even say the Dragonball cast are good people

#8 DrK

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 12:32 AM

Eh, I can't even like most of the Dragonball cast simply because they're all idiots. Not in the book smarts way, but in the, "Damn, we should probably all gang up on this guy to win, but Goku over there wants to do it alone, so kitten it, let him."

A better example would be how Goku essentially makes things worse all the time, yet nobody ever calls him out on his kitten. And how he and Vegeta always prioritize their pride of fighting alone over the safety/logistics of the life and death situations they find themselves in and everyone is always okay with it, completely blind how Goku and Vegeta, mostly, are terrible morons.

In short, I can't even say the Dragonball cast are good people

This was really more of an issue in DBS than it was in DBZ, though.

 

Like for Buu, Vegeta just screwed everyone over until him and Goku eventually did fight together. With Cell Gohan was the only one who could touch him anyway, after Vegeta screwed everyone over. And they did gang up on Frieza until it became the same situation as Cell.

 

DBS is just the Goku show. They gave Vegeta all these perks but he never really gets elevated beyond being a sidekick. And Goku is selfish about wanting to fight by himself because he loves fighting and I can see why someone might get annoyed at that. In DBS they turned that up to 11 and it now really seems like Goku would rather just lose than not fight the way he wants.


Edited by DrK, 20 November 2018 - 12:33 AM.


#9 Frankie

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 01:46 AM

This was really more of an issue in DBS than it was in DBZ, though.
 
Like for Buu, Vegeta just screwed everyone over until him and Goku eventually did fight together. With Cell Gohan was the only one who could touch him anyway, after Vegeta screwed everyone over. And they did gang up on Frieza until it became the same situation as Cell.
 
DBS is just the Goku show. They gave Vegeta all these perks but he never really gets elevated beyond being a sidekick. And Goku is selfish about wanting to fight by himself because he loves fighting and I can see why someone might get annoyed at that. In DBS they turned that up to 11 and it now really seems like Goku would rather just lose than not fight the way he wants.


Despite Vegeta atoning, which admittedly makes me tear up every time, it took him kittening them over for years for him to go, 'Damn, probably shouldn't do that'

Yeah, Super really killed Goku's character. Any endearment he had is gone. He's just frustrating to watch now and every character bends over backwards to justify his stupidity.

Just remember without the Dragonballs, they'd all be dead by their own stupidity and selfishness. Also, never forget they could've prevented the entire Android Saga before it started but didn't because, "Nah, nigga, I wanna fight cyborgs for my fighting boner, bro!"

#10 James S Cassidy

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 03:40 PM

Despite Vegeta atoning, which admittedly makes me tear up every time, it took him kittening them over for years for him to go, 'Damn, probably shouldn't do that'

Yeah, Super really killed Goku's character. Any endearment he had is gone. He's just frustrating to watch now and every character bends over backwards to justify his stupidity.

Just remember without the Dragonballs, they'd all be dead by their own stupidity and selfishness. Also, never forget they could've prevented the entire Android Saga before it started but didn't because, "Nah, nigga, I wanna fight cyborgs for my fighting boner, bro!"

 

DBS kind started suffering from the same issues alot of shows are dealing today. Forced drama for the sake of story. What I mean is, they did something and it was proven time and time again that it was a bad idea.

Look at The Flash TV series. He was told by every character INCLUDING HIS FUTURE SELF not to mess with the timeline. "Don't mess with the timeline, Barry, you will screw things up and make it worse." What does he do? Messes with the timeline and then acts all surprised when things mess up.

I see anime doing the same thing now with stories that keep repeating the same issue over and over with varying differences. Goku keeps wanting to fight and fight and fight even though he knows everything is at stake. Trunks literally gave precognition and he STILL didn't listen.

The only thing I can say is when someone smart enough might say "But if we do this, wouldn't this cause a bigger rift and maybe even bring about something worse? Let's think what we should really do."


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#11 Azor Ahai

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Posted 25 November 2018 - 04:18 PM

DB Super ended with a Goku and Vegeta fight, finishing in a wilderness with a stance that is reminiscent of their fight back when they first met. With no longer the fate of the world hanging in the balance, and becoming something akin to "best buddies." That is a huge development.

 

Naruto ended with their spoiled little kids...that is all I am going to say about it.

 

Also to note...when Super ended...it made me feel like that wasn't really the ending of Dragon Ball...if anything it made me wanted to see more of the story...of course more of the story is the end of Z when Goku left to train with Uub.

 

When Naruto ended on the other hand, it made my stomach turn, and I just wanted it to stop.


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