81 replies to this topic

[No WhereMan]

Now, I like most of you am a very dedicated Naru/Saku shipper, keeping that in mind I do by chance like looking at stories with Naruto paired with someone besides the Strawberry haired vixen. Its just to have a nice bit of spice and all. And you'd be surprised how many good stories are really out there. But there is one thing that I constantly run across.

Any story where Naru and Sakura aren't the main pairing and he's paired with someone else, the author often makes Sakura quote un-quote a b*tch. She's shallow, snobbish, completely unsympathedic towards people, mainly Naruto. And the main girl, that Naruto is destined to be with usually has a grace period where she hates him, but through the course of the story warms up to the goofy dope.

Now, I was wondering does anyone else notice this? That in order for Naruto to be destined to for someone else Sakura has to be gravely out of character? Or is it just me?

[Rick (Bonta-kun)]

Its mainly in the crap fics this happens alot. I read a variety of different Naruto pairings and i admit that this does happen alot, and it happens in EVERY 'Naruto leaves/gets banished from Konoha fic', mainly because he brought back Sasuke and Sakura kicks the crap out of him for hurting Sasuke, which is total crap and extremely OOC. But yeah, like i said, this is mainly the crap fanfiction, theres quite a few good stories where this doesnt happen, but there harder to find amongst the big pile of crap.

This also happens alot in Naruto/Harem fics, alot of the writers are hardcore Narutards who hate Sakura because she hits Naruto or some other stupid reason. In fact it probably happens the most in Harem fics.

[SakuDotz]

Yeah, sort of what Rick said. Probably because she's hit him before and because of how easily she would get annoyed with him around the first time they were put on Team 7.

[Gnosismaster]

Ugh, I hate when that happens. Those 'people' have no sense of respect.

[Traekor]

It seems most writers don't really understand Sakura's character. They take her initial fangirl-ism, and how she blows Naruto off (especially in the earlier episodes) and expand on that using her as a plot device to push Naruto toward another girl.

Honestly, I never thought Sakura was that cruel to Naruto. Every time she 'hit' him, he was generally doing something deserving, ie pulling her for a hug, attempting to pee in front of her, saying something stupid (like with Konohamaru), etc. I never got the impression she goes around beating him up for the sake of it. She hits him yes - but its always in a comedic slapstick fashion, and not a 'cruelty' route people seem to take. I always saw her as being one of the most supportive people toward Naruto in part 1, even as early as the wave arc, she's shown as being doubtful of him at first but praising him in her thoughts.

As far as fanfiction goes though, since she isn't a popular character for a lot of people, they abuse her faults just as you have said - into a snobbish shallow b*tch.

[MagusKyros]

Traekor pretty much took the words out of my mouth. First impressions are always the lasting ones, and Sakura's first impression wasn't great. As a matter of fact, it was downright horrible, but logically speaking, it suited her character at that time.

Characters NEED to have flaws in order for them to grow, and Sakura had a lot of them. That is why Sakura had the most growth in part 1.

[Nick Soapdish]

And it doesn't help that the anime played the "abuse" up more.

[No WhereMan]

And it doesn't help that the anime played the "abuse" up more.

It just strikes it odd to me, where it happens in the Naruto centered fics. And despite what someone else said, I think Sakura is the most used female character in romance fic stories. I think Hinata comes in second and Ino/temari come in 3rd. But all the fics I see generally have Sakura as the main paired with someone else girl.

It just irritating to see because Sakura, I think, is a great character. She's not perfect. But she's a decent type character. I mean even if, heaven forbid, Naruto and Sakura don't get together in the manga, I still see her and him being extremely close.

Also the "abuse" thing, that's typical in all anime. There is usually some guy and girl team that the girl hits the guy for being an idiot. And its always natured in some form of being friendly.

[SkyStrider]

NoWhereMan, I see that situation a lot. The thing is, I personally have no problems at all with people who portray 12-year-old Sakura as a cold, snobbish, heartless b*tch without compassion for Naruto. Because to tell you the truth, that's EXACTLY what she was in the beginning. According to the manga, it's completely IN CHARACTER for her to be that way. And personally, I cannot in good faith bring myself to objectively defend her treatment of him throughout the majority of Part 1. And furthermore, I cannot begin to understand the reasoning of anyone who does (though heaven knows others have tried).

My problems come when people try to portray Sakura as that same b*tch after the Promise of a Lifetime scene whilst retaining that scene in it's entirety, or try to portray her as being such a b*tch after the timeskip. That's when I see people engaging in complete OOC treatment of her character. The way I see it, you can make Sakura as much as a b*tch as you want before the Promise of a Lifetime scene, and I'd honestly find little wrong with it. But it's when you try and maintain this view even after retaining her epiphanies and understanding on the worth of Naruto and her other companions that I strongly begin to object. To maintain this view, you have to completely change the PoaL from what it is to make it something else altogether, or completely erase the PoaL from history. The original Promise of a Lifetime can't happen in any plausible story in which Sakura maintains her negative views on Naruto beyond Sasuke's betrayal. It's the fulcrum upon which the tide first turns in the favor of NaruSaku, and the foundation stone upon which her willing acceptance of Naruto, their openly wo-sided relationship, and her Part 2 character are all built. That's the reason why I can see myself enjoying a fic in which Sakura betrays Konoha by going with Sasuke to Sound, and yet generally don't like those fics that have Sakura punishing Naruto for hurting Sasuke at the VOTE. It's a matter of understanding what type of person she was at a certain time, and showing that period of her character in the appropriate time and place. Sakura is a character who's undergone some amazing development from Part 1 to Part 2. People tend to forget this.

And that, to me, is where I see many fics failing. They give no logical reason as to why Sakura would believably insist on refusing to be Naruto's friend after his promise, or even so much as a reason as to why she would still treat him like dirt past that point. And furthermore, they play off of this idea in their attempts to make Naruto magically fall for whatever girl they choose, who conveniently just happens to be able to "give Naruto everything that the pink-haired b*tch won't". :shamefulcry0js: It's ridiculous, to tell you the truth. And it's even worse when they try to use this same storyline in the sense of having Sakura suddenly ignore Naruto once he gets Sasuke back, as if they think she'll go back to her 12-year-old self the moment he comes back. :headbash:

I do think it's possible to make a fic in which Sakura stays in-character, and still has Naruto falling for another. But I haven't found many of them at all. Just goes to show you the sad state of Naruto fanfiction today: the majority of it is made up of people who disregard the manga and don't think their stories through. Hence, you get the garbage you often see.

SkyStrider

[MagusKyros]

Sakura was a cold toward Naruto before Team 7 was official, but that changed quite quickly after they became a team. Though she still didn't like him, it was hell of a lot better than before, and it just got better overtime.

Definitely by the preliminaries, Sakura thought of Naruto as good friend and comrade.

[SkyStrider]

Sakura was a cold toward Naruto before Team 7 was official, but that changed quite quickly after they became a team. Though she still didn't like him, it was hell of a lot better than before, and it just got better overtime.

Definitely by the preliminaries, Sakura thought of Naruto as good friend and comrade.

Right...

I've gone over this countless times, and I think I've proven why Sakura DID NOT consider Naruto anywhere close to a good friend or comrade until long after the preliminaries. Good friends or comrades don't forget to thank each other for saving their lives, and they most certainly don't consider each other to have such little worth that they'd betray and abandon them with little more than a passing thought. Yet Sakura did both of the above in regards to Naruto. With friends like that, you don't need enemies.

Why this is so incredibly difficult for anyone to see, I have no idea.

SkyStrider

(P.S: Any by the way, the scene in which Sakura makes fun of Naruto for being an orphan in Part 3 happened after Team 7 formed. And she didn't come close to even thinking about changing her views until Sasuke woke her up with his rant, which not coincidentally also happened after Team 7 formed)

[Nick Soapdish]

Right...

I've gone over this countless times, and I think I've proven why Sakura DID NOT consider Naruto anywhere close to a good friend or comrade until long after the preliminaries. Good friends or comrades don't forget to thank each other for saving their lives, and they most certainly don't consider each other to have such little worth that they'd betray and abandon them with little more than a passing thought. Yet Sakura did both of the above in regards to Naruto. With friends like that, you don't need enemies.

Why this is so incredibly difficult for anyone to see, I have no idea.

SkyStrider

(P.S: Any by the way, the scene in which Sakura makes fun of Naruto for being an orphan in Part 3 happened after Team 7 formed. And she didn't come close to even thinking about changing her views until Sasuke woke her up with his rant, which not coincidentally also happened after Team 7 formed)

You haven't and I am also completely flummoxed at your point of view. I've seen it lots from Sakura-haters or SasuSaku fans that try to argue that the only development between Naruto and Sakura is expressly due to Sasuke thus NaruSaku would never work, but that's really it.

ETA: And yeah, she didn't warm up to him and show him friendship until the Chuunin exam. Before that, she was willing to support him, but in my view, it was more the actions of one supporting a teammate.

[Vespar]

Right...

I've gone over this countless times, and I think I've proven why Sakura DID NOT consider Naruto anywhere close to a good friend or comrade until long after the preliminaries. Good friends or comrades don't forget to thank each other for saving their lives, and they most certainly don't consider each other to have such little worth that they'd betray and abandon them with little more than a passing thought. Yet Sakura did both of the above in regards to Naruto. With friends like that, you don't need enemies.

Why this is so incredibly difficult for anyone to see, I have no idea.

SkyStrider

(P.S: Any by the way, the scene in which Sakura makes fun of Naruto for being an orphan in Part 3 happened after Team 7 formed. And she didn't come close to even thinking about changing her views until Sasuke woke her up with his rant, which not coincidentally also happened after Team 7 formed)

I'd have to disagree with your assessment on that particular scene.

It's true that Sakura doesn't thank Naruto for saving her life, but it's not as if Naruto did it to specifically get thanked. Actually, has he ever brought up anything in conversation that should've merit him being thanked for? It just seems to me that his actions have always been rather thankless with the one exception of the Mizuki incident (and, to a lesser extent, when Kakashi made a roundabout compliment to Naruto during the initial Zabuza fight).

Well, either thankless or some sort of soliloquy.

Come to think of it, I think I've seen it quite a few times before. I wonder if that's a Japanese thing...

[No WhereMan]

Right...

I've gone over this countless times, and I think I've proven why Sakura DID NOT consider Naruto anywhere close to a good friend or comrade until long after the preliminaries. Good friends or comrades don't forget to thank each other for saving their lives, and they most certainly don't consider each other to have such little worth that they'd betray and abandon them with little more than a passing thought. Yet Sakura did both of the above in regards to Naruto. With friends like that, you don't need enemies.

Why this is so incredibly difficult for anyone to see, I have no idea.

SkyStrider

(P.S: Any by the way, the scene in which Sakura makes fun of Naruto for being an orphan in Part 3 happened after Team 7 formed. And she didn't come close to even thinking about changing her views until Sasuke woke her up with his rant, which not coincidentally also happened after Team 7 formed)

SkyStrider, I'm going to have to say I think you're being a bit overally critical about Sakura reaction to the news that Naruto saved her from Gaara. Granted she didn't immediately rush over to thank him, but if anything I think she was a bit reflective about the whole situation. Because for one, she honestly couldn't believe that, that little Naruto, was the one that could defeat a monster like Gaara and two the fact he went all out, just for her. If anything I think she was mentally reevaluating her opinion about him yet again.

I think the first time she starts to take note of Naruto is his confidence and plan to defeat Zabuza. But from there, there are smaller events that triggered an improved opinion, where he goes from that annoying kid that just won't leave her alone, to an ok ninja but still annoying at times, to a trustworthy friend and comrade when she needs one and so on.

If anything part one depicts besides the growth of all the characters to their roads at the present, but I think also as a sidenote it shows the developement of Sakura's opinion and trust for Naruto.

[SkyStrider]

You haven't and I am also completely flummoxed at your point of view. I've seen it lots from Sakura-haters or SasuSaku fans that try to argue that the only development between Naruto and Sakura is expressly due to Sasuke thus NaruSaku would never work, but that's really it.

ETA: And yeah, she didn't warm up to him and show him friendship until the Chuunin exam. Before that, she was willing to support him, but in my view, it was more the actions of one supporting a teammate.

I don't see what flummoxes you about it, and I never have. A person who does the things Sakura's done to Naruto and has gone to those lengths to willingly show her lack of appreciation for him and what he's worth to her (regardless of whether or not she had the entire picture on the issue) can not and should never even consider calling that other her friend at that point in time. It utterly insults the meaning of the word.

The fact that she later became his friend does not change this in any way, and I honestly think that a lot of people here are using Sakura's attitude and persona in Part 2 to justify such a change. Frankly, it's a train of thought I cannot begin to comprehend. It would be like saying that Ty Cobb's achievements on the baseball field should make us disregard the fact that he was one of the most notoriously outspoken racists the sports world has ever seen. It's the classic case of people allowing a person's positive changes and achievements to diminish and disregard their past faults and crimes as less than they were. And I, for one, refuse to engage in it.

'd have to disagree with your assessment on that particular scene.

It's true that Sakura doesn't thank Naruto for saving her life, but it's not as if Naruto did it to specifically get thanked. Actually, has he ever brought up anything in conversation that should've merit him being thanked for? It just seems to me that his actions have always been rather thankless with the one exception of the Mizuki incident (and, to a lesser extent, when Kakashi made a roundabout compliment to Naruto during the initial Zabuza fight).

It's not about Naruto looking for thanks, and it never was. The entire point behind thanking someone who does you a favor is not giving them what they expect, but rather showing your appreciation for what they've done for you regardless of whether they were looking for or not. To thank someone for risking their life in order to save yours is to show appreciation of both them and the act. To fail to do so is a clear sign of showing a lack of such appreciation. And someone who sees a person they consider a "true friend" risk their own lives to save them would never show such a lack of appreciation. Yet Sakura, despite every little supposed display of "growth" she showed up to that point, clearly couldn't be bothered to respect their relationship for even that much. Therefore, she's doesn't consider Naruto a friend. It's that simple.

SkyStrider

[Nick Soapdish]

I don't see what flummoxes you about it, and I never have.

I know.

And I don't see what confuses you about our position. We've established that at great length already, although I'll add that I came to my own position long before I'd read any chapters from part two (although not before they came out because I was way behind and just getting into the manga then).

Do we really have to repeat this entire argument again?

[ciardha]

Any story where Naru and Sakura aren't the main pairing and he's paired with someone else, the author often makes Sakura quote un-quote a b*tch. She's shallow, snobbish, completely unsympathedic towards people, mainly Naruto.

Now, I was wondering does anyone else notice this? That in order for Naruto to be destined to for someone else Sakura has to be gravely out of character? Or is it just me?

This a very common thing across fandoms.

It's a hatred toward strong willed female characters, especially if they don't fit a Alpha female type role. If the strong willed character also has a compassionate and romantic side, it seems a certain segment of fans will hate the character because she doesn't fit the two most common types- the absolutely confident Alpha or the submissive Beta type. She takes neither typical role but is a blend of both, plus a sensual vibe that is neither dominant or submissive but playfully flirtatous. She also has hot temper- a reflection of the character's passionate nature. These type characters actually are more a more realistic reflection of how women really are than your typical Alpha or Beta types. The character type cannot be fit into a box with easy to figure out reactions- they are something of a mystery and some fans cannot deal with complex characters, so they must simplify them into a character type they understand.

Then there are the shippers of other pairings who see the character as a threat to their favorite pairing, thus they must hate the character. This is, by far the largest segment of people who hate a character like Sakura, Buffy, Rogue, etc... Some become so obsessed that troll forums and write fanfictions where they bash the character they spend their days loathing like a celebrity stalker.

[Chisaki]

Wow! I noticed that too

[Tohno Shiki]

Quite simply, the NaruHina and SasuNaru fanbase are huge. Sakura is someone they see as an obstacle for both of these pairings, so people make her out to be an evil person. It's just convenient for them that way, because they can't really see Naruto giving up on Sakura without her doing something truly terrible to him.

Of course, as Shippuden Sakura (And to an extent, Sakura after the wave arc) is so kickass, Sakura bashers resort to her Chapter 1-3 behaviour to prove that she's a horrible person. After that, her character really only goes uphill, so most Sakura bashing has her behaving like an obsessive fangirl who hates Naruto. Which is the way she acts right at the start.

Now, I'm not saying that's 100% true, and it's not. I'm biased towards Sakura simply because I like her, but the sad truth is that people simply bash her for shallow reasons (most of the time). Most people simply use it as a way to net easy reviews from other Sakura haters, and boost their ego. Others use it to justify pushing their favourite characters together in a pairing. I don't mean to offend anyone, but this is indeed my honest opinion.

[TheVileOne]

The thing I hate more in fanfics is when a grown Naruto goes on a date with someone like Sakura and then gets lynched by Konoha citizens, gets stuff thrown at him, and gets called a demon by adult townspeople. If there was some basis for this, it'd be alright, but it's usually pretty stupid and melodramatically written as well.

For starters, if they truly believed he was a demon, they'd be pretty retarded to go up to him and try to provoke him, even in a small group.