115 replies to this topic

[DrK]

And at least we know that gaurenteed he was going to end up with Kushina and not some shy background character that did nothing more than hinder Minato because she "lurves him so much."
 

Probably it would be Sasuke's or Hinata's mother.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Please Mikoto Uchiha had more personality then Hinata and she had EVEN LESS panel time.

[James S Cassidy]

Please Mikoto Uchiha had more personality then Hinata and she had EVEN LESS panel time.

I think the front gate to Konoha had more personality than Hinata.

The kitten that Naruto took after drinking that bad milk had far more personality

[DrK]

I think the front gate to Konoha had more personality than Hinata.

The kitten that Naruto took after drinking that bad milk had far more personality

Savage.

[Kasimir38]

Canon doesn't mean logical. It also doesn't mean that it sounds reasonable in the sense of storytelling. Most people on this site couldn't care less what is "canon" and what is simple speculation. Because if we would just look at "Kishimoto confirmed" and "canon it is", then we should take everything seriously that was ever confirmed in official Naruto publishment, and thus, never question its credibility.

 

Back to topic:

I feel like Sasuke is slowly changing in Gaiden/ Boruto. It's the first time I actually find him sympathical. So...maybe...he will make up for the time he was away? Because ending SS in a good way is Sasuke apologizing and making up for his mistakes and maybe this is something that will come to happen?

[Kasimir38]

 

I find the standard argument more "I don't like it, therefore it is not logical", rather than any actually valid reason, or the reasons put forward are to justify not liking it to it being illogical with post-ad hoc reasoning, but it's still very evident born of dislike.

 

The credibility shouldn't be questioned regardless anyway, what is though, up for criticism, is if it was written well, but that's rarely the angle put forward, and instead, it's speculation that the writing was changed up from what it was supposed to be. We never do this in Workshops. We never do this in literature classes. No one questions the writing process in such a conspiracy way, or worse, just plains make stuff up, as the last post I responded to. 

 

I do agree though that Gaiden/Boruto is more evidence of Sasuke growing. He is far more sympathatical than before, because he isn't the bad Sasuke he once was. He does apologize in Gaiden (Before Shin takes Sakura) if I remember, in the way Sasuke does such a thing.

 

Well, I agree, simply disliking something and calling it illogical isn't logical itself. It's more like: Altering the truth for yourself in your favor. But this isn't literature class, therefore there is room for speculation and conspiracy, isn't it? In the end, many people point out true facts, for example, the lack of NH development during the main series. This might not be a "canon" argument, since Kishimoto created the Last and also said that he planned them from the start. But it is the impression of many people, not only in this forum.

I also don't always agree with every post written here so I don't take it as "wrong" or "right", but more as a subjective impression of a certain topic. I just pointed out my overall impression of the counter-arguments.

 

When I watched the episode, I was actually pretty thrilled about SS. They are both 30 - something adults and behave that way. They both seem to have settled, and no matter how hard I tried to dislike it, I kind of grew fond of it? However, I don't like the scene in which Sarada asks Sasuke if his feelings are connected with Sakura's and his answer is: Yes, because we have you. That did not sound like: We love each other so we had you,- but more like: I wouldn't love her if we didn't have you. xD

[DrK]

 

I feel like Sasuke is slowly changing in Gaiden/ Boruto. It's the first time I actually find him sympathical. So...maybe...he will make up for the time he was away? Because ending SS in a good way is Sasuke apologizing and making up for his mistakes and maybe this is something that will come to happen?

I don't think this will happen, and I don't think it would be good enough even if it did. Because at this point the characters have been OOC for a long time. It can't really be done in a good way if they're portrayed as OOC to get to that point.

Edited by DrK, 30 November 2017 - 03:34 PM.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Sasuke hasn't changed at all, he's still a stoic he's still selfish, he still DGAF. Naruto couldn't change that and neither can burrito

[Tsuki Hoshino]

[Tsuki Hoshino]

[rocci]

 
Well, I agree, simply disliking something and calling it illogical isn't logical itself. It's more like: Altering the truth for yourself in your favor. But this isn't literature class, therefore there is room for speculation and conspiracy, isn't it? In the end, many people point out true facts, for example, the lack of NH development during the main series. This might not be a "canon" argument, since Kishimoto created the Last and also said that he planned them from the start. But it is the impression of many people, not only in this forum.
I also don't always agree with every post written here so I don't take it as "wrong" or "right", but more as a subjective impression of a certain topic. I just pointed out my overall impression of the counter-arguments.
 
When I watched the episode, I was actually pretty thrilled about SS. They are both 30 - something adults and behave that way. They both seem to have settled, and no matter how hard I tried to dislike it, I kind of grew fond of it? However, I don't like the scene in which Sarada asks Sasuke if his feelings are connected with Sakura's and his answer is: Yes, because we have you. That did not sound like: We love each other so we had you,- but more like: I wouldn't love her if we didn't have you. xD

Sometimes I have a heat argument with member of this forum about naruto thing. Having different opinion is something but trolling is another.

That's why kishi should make ss happen from the beginning or during part 1 before sasuke coma or make sasuke think sakura fondly and not naruto or his family. It will make ss and its argument brought by ss fan legitimate. It will make kishi claim that he intend ss since the beginning undoubted by non ss and nh.

[Illnevergiveup3]

SS sucks no matter how much times you put them in a blender and try to mix them around with different types of chocolate or whatever sweet thing it may be. 

Edited by Illnevergiveup3, 01 December 2017 - 05:38 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

SS sucks no matter how much times you put them in a blender and try to mix them around with different types of chocolate or whatever sweet thing it may be. 

 

It's due to their lack of chemistry really. =/ And the fact for Sasuke, Sakura never was in his mind outside of being a friend and teammate. I still wonder if the only reason besides her obsession with him that Sasuke even calls her his wife is because he wants to try to stick it to Naruto, given their rivalry didn't seem COMPLETELY finished.

[DrK]

 

It's due to their lack of chemistry really. =/ And the fact for Sasuke, Sakura never was in his mind outside of being a friend and teammate. I still wonder if the only reason besides her obsession with him that Sasuke even calls her his wife is because he wants to try to stick it to Naruto, given their rivalry didn't seem COMPLETELY finished.

it's impossible to say how the course of events went for Naruto and Sakura, because nothing makes any sense. You have Naruto showing interest in Hinata near the end of the war and being disgusted rather than charmed by how overly strong Sakura is. But he's still the regular Naruto. Then in the Last he's a guy who thinks love for noodles and love for the opposite sex is the same thing. There is no way to know if he would have even cared about what Sakura decided or if he would have even understood it. Maybe he thought that Sakura wanted to go out to eat with Sasuke.

 

Because if you remove Naruto's understanding of love you also remove his understanding of Sakura loving Sasuke as well. It seems most likely that he was just completely oblivious to everything that happened.

Edited by DrK, 01 December 2017 - 07:36 PM.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Honestly for this series to have ended SS in a good way it would have to be completely rewritten starting from wave country to end.

[DrK]

Honestly for this series to have ended SS in a good way it would have to be completely rewritten starting from wave country to end.

Yeah, I actually hate the fact that I made this topic. The only way I added any value was in the exchange about Analyzer being a basher. Those were the only worthwhile posts I offered.

Edited by DrK, 01 December 2017 - 08:22 PM.

[Illnevergiveup3]

The only way I’ll ship SS is if Naruto and Sasuke switched names.

[DrK]

The only way I’ll ship SS is if Naruto and Sasuke switched names.

I actually read a really interesting story once where Naruto was reborn as Sasuke. And the Sasuke fangirl Ami has the Kyuubi instead. He was so nice and paid attention to every fangirl. It was really cute and endearing.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

I actually think you would have to go beyond the beginning of the series, back to when Sasuke was still a kid before the massacre. With how he was turning out, his attitude seemed to start creeping in as early as when he obsessively tried to learn the Fireball Jutsu, all just so he can get Fugaku's praise and attention and to prove he was better than Itachi since we saw that Sasuke was jealous of Itachi always getting said praise and attention because of his genius. We even see in the story itself how Sasuke seemed to care more about proving he was stronger than Itachi than about revenge, so I would say Fugaku would need to be removed from the equation, as well as having Danzo, Homura, and Koharu removed from any positions of power.

Or go back even further and, after Hashirama ACTUALLY kills Madara after his betrayal (no magical deus ex machina survival and Rinnegan acquisition), the rest of the Uchiha Clan could eliminate those who followed Madara's beliefs and most likely be the ones who caused trouble down the road, which lead to Tobirama and the elders down the road to taking the actions they did, and keep going back and forth until it culminated with the massacre.
 

The problem is still the fact that Sasuke decided to go a more evil route in the story than just being a introvert which is what Tsundere's usually are. They hide their true feelings with a tough facade.

In order for Sasuke to be that he couldn't just be evil, plan to kill people, and take over the world. Not even the most idealistic introverts think that way. Which means that in order for SS to be seen as "good" Sasuke can never do anything to like leave the village or persue revenge or have Naruto go after him the entire time. The fact that Sasuke and Naruto had to fight to near death is proof that Sasuke is not as introverted as they think. He wanted to destroy everything that causes him pain. That is a reminder of things that he lost. Someone who is an introvert would not persue this. It is not within their character unless they change.

That means most of the story of Naruto would not be him spending a god awful amount trying to "bring Sasuke back." Instead, it would be more Dragonball Z style with Sasuke being more like Vegeta in that he will help and occasionally fight against Goku ina  true rivalry.

In order for SS to work...you basically need to turn Sasuke and Sakura into Vegeta and Bulma. Even Vegeta is not as heartless as Sasuke and at least he spends time with his son and takes him out.

"Son, if you can land a hit on me, I will take you to the park for one hour."

His methods are different, but Vegeta is still a better father and husband than Sasuke. You know how? Vegeta actually came back and was there for his son from time to time.

Even ultimately sacrificing himself in order to try to save their lives from Majin Buu. Does anyone honestly believe that Sasuke would EVER sacrifice himself in any degree for someone else at this point besides maybe Naruto?
 

[James S Cassidy]

I actually think you would have to go beyond the beginning of the series, back to when Sasuke was still a kid before the massacre. With how he was turning out, his attitude seemed to start creeping in as early as when he obsessively tried to learn the Fireball Jutsu, all just so he can get Fugaku's praise and attention and to prove he was better than Itachi since we saw that Sasuke was jealous of Itachi always getting said praise and attention because of his genius. We even see in the story itself how Sasuke seemed to care more about proving he was stronger than Itachi than about revenge, so I would say Fugaku would need to be removed from the equation, as well as having Danzo, Homura, and Koharu removed from any positions of power.

Or go back even further and, after Hashirama ACTUALLY kills Madara after his betrayal (no magical deus ex machina survival and Rinnegan acquisition), the rest of the Uchiha Clan could eliminate those who followed Madara's beliefs and most likely be the ones who caused trouble down the road, which lead to Tobirama and the elders down the road to taking the actions they did, and keep going back and forth until it culminated with the massacre.

You actually don't need to change the Uchiha massacre. You just have to change Sasuke from wanting revenge to more wanting justice. Basically, Sasuke stays in the village the whole time and as soon as itachi comes along he just gets more introverted and secluded. He never turns evil or wants power. He just wants justice to be sought.
 

Even ultimately sacrificing himself in order to try to save their lives from Majin Buu. Does anyone honestly believe that Sasuke would EVER sacrifice himself in any degree for someone else at this point besides maybe Naruto?

 

I think we both know that Sasuke was given multiple chances to "save Sakura" and he either downright ignored her or said that he had no use for her and almost took her out himself. Heck, he was willing to use her as a distraction to get to Madara and again, if Naruto didn't save her and pull her out of the way, would have cut her in half.

Basically Sasuke, but more of a D-bag.