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To What Degree IS Kakashi Responsible for Team 7's Neuroticism?

Kakashi Team 7 Sakura Naruto Sasuke

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#21 Tsuki Hoshino

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 11:24 PM

LeeSaku doesn't work for me. I can't see her being amused by Lee's eccentricity in the way that she is with Naruto... It's too in your face and constant. Naruto is a goofball and makes her laugh, but he also has his moments of quiet care for her. Lee would be way too much. He'd want to carry her bridal style everywhere. Also I think she still has some of that Ino type shallowness where she wants a handsome guy, and Naruto did become that. Lee is never going to fit that ideal. I just don't think Sakura would ever come around to him, even if Sasuke and Naruto both died or something.

Yea but at least Lee is genuinely nice to her, and shows that he likes her. and part of her falling for him would be showing she really HAD grown all the way up. He's not handsome, he's not the biggest hero, but he's constant and honest. He'd always be home for dinner, he'd always be happy with the kids, he'd never give her the could shoulder. Coulda been a happy ended. IDK something about it...


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#22 DrK

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 11:34 PM

Yea but at least Lee is genuinely nice to her, and shows that he likes her. and part of her falling for him would be showing she really HAD grown all the way up. He's not handsome, he's not the biggest hero, but he's constant and honest. He'd always be home for dinner, he'd always be happy with the kids, he'd never give her the could shoulder. Coulda been a happy ended. IDK something about it...

I do like that aspect, but it's the only thing that works for me about it. Like one thing about NaruSaku is that they're very different outwardly, but deep down they have a lot in common. I don't see what her and Lee really have in common.

 

It doesn't help that he fell for her based on her appearance... Like the thing I find irresistible about NS is the idea that Naruto sees something in Sakura that he can't get anywhere else. He's completely addicted to the fiery tsundere spirit that is burning inside her. This is why the ending is so tragic. Hinata is the exact opposite of everything Naruto wanted.

 

I dunno what Lee saw in her. Maybe he liked a lot of the same things. But at first it was just cosmetic, and it's unclear how his interest in her progressed from there. But yeah I don't want to bash LS when I could be bashing SS, so I'll stop.


Edited by DrK, 20 November 2017 - 11:35 PM.


#23 Tsuki Hoshino

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 11:37 PM

 

I do like that aspect, but it's the only thing that works for me about it. Like one thing about NaruSaku is that they're very different outwardly, but deep down they have a lot in common. I don't see what her and Lee really have in common.

 

It doesn't help that he fell for her based on her appearance... Like the thing I find irresistible about NS is the idea that Naruto sees something in Sakura that he can't get anywhere else. He's completely addicted to the fiery tsundere spirit that is burning inside her. This is why the ending is so tragic. Hinata is the exact opposite of everything Naruto wanted.

 

I dunno what Lee saw in her. Maybe he liked a lot of the same things. But at first it was just cosmetic, and it's unclear how his interest in her progressed from there. But yeah I don't want to bash LS when I could be bashing SS, so I'll stop.

 

Hey its not bashing! its thoughtful discussion  :chuckle: Its not like I'm a hardcore Leesaku shipper. Its just that over time i've grown to appreciate it more then i used too. I think what he saw was how great they would be as a coordinated couple He'll be the leaves, she'll be the flowers. Together they make a tree  :woot: 

Omg I crack myself up....


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#24 BlackShirtGuy

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 11:48 PM

Hey its not bashing! its thoughtful discussion  :chuckle: Its not like I'm a hardcore Leesaku shipper. Its just that over time i've grown to appreciate it more then i used too. I think what he saw was how great they would be as a coordinated couple He'll be the leaves, she'll be the flowers. Together they make a tree  :woot: 

Omg I crack myself up....

 

Yeah, NS beats LeexSakura in everything, but that's mostly beause Lee isn't a part of the main cast or even a very popular character (like Shikamaru), however if is between LS and SS , LS all the way god, at the very least Lee always cared for Sakura and helped her when she was in a pinch and to a certain degree she cared for him too, and he unlike Sasuke at least would be there for his flipping wife  :zaru:


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#25 DrK

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 12:01 AM

You have to wonder why LeeSaku was ever given any attention at all if SasuSaku was going to win. Do we really need two rival ships for one character? It's okay if NS ends up winning because in that case SS wasn't ever even an option, as Sasuke never liked Sakura to begin with. So Lee ends up being Sakura's Hinata. But instead we live in bizarro world.



#26 Tsuki Hoshino

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 12:20 AM

I think it was supposed to be a joke, or a subtle hint to people who thought Sakura wasn't cute "Oh hey look this guy besides Naruto finds her fancy!" 


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#27 DrK

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 12:23 AM

I don't really like how she looks in Part 1, either. But most of the kunoichi look weird then. Probably because of the art style. Tenten is the only one who looked similar to her Part 2 incarnation. Part 2 Sakura is the nicest looking, though.

 

Part 3 is Ino, and it's not even close. What the hell happened to everyone else?


Edited by DrK, 21 November 2017 - 12:26 AM.


#28 Tsuki Hoshino

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 12:28 AM

:lmao:  I don't know...We know Kishi can draw pretty women, but it seems he has trouble drawing girls, and teens...Sakura is still pretty good looking in part 3 imo, but she lacks attitude in her style. 


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#29 rocci

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 08:38 AM

Part 1 sakura is good. She's the most beautiful with long hair. That's why I like her the last kishi design.

Kakashi is the problem of kishi in ability to write toughtful backstory. He just simply make it on the way which make a big glaring issue. He can get away with it if he can combine it smoothly.

Kakashi is bad teacher because he doesn't teach his student what they should know. He doesn't teach sasuke other elemental jutsu when he capable to do that cause sharingan, he doesn't teach naruto and sakura what's their elemental ninjutsu, he doesn't teach sakura genjutsu. He doesn't do any of that especially to naruto and sakura. This make them in action department, bland and uninteresting.

At least for sakura, he can give her how to perform a genjutsu and a elemental ninjutsu, if she can't do that then it's not his fault.


He should support NS if he saw obito in naruto.

#30 milan kyuubi

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 01:33 PM

Yeah, I can totally imagine a story where Kakashi resented Kushina taking time away from someone who he saw as a surrogate father. The young Kakashi isn't really someone to be admired. Even Sasuke is better than him, honestly. The young Kakashi would never have respected Naruto as Sasuke ultimately did before his fall.

I think more of the resentment would come from the tailed beast issue. I mean on one hand he could KNOW its not Kushina's fault she is what she is, but also hate the fact that she's the embodiment of why he lost so many friends, compounding onto the fact that now His teacher is too busy, and then ultimately the both of them are ALSO killed because Kurama even exists and gets to continue existing inside Naruto when both have died. 

On one level there can be the knowledge that none of it is Naruto's fault, and on another grief, resentment, ect. 

Looking at Kakashi likes this makes me like him more  :lmao:

 

About Kakashi resenting Kushina. I don't think it's that, at least not because of a tailed  beast. Since Kakashi did not know what Kushina was.


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#31 Wubbzy

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 04:58 PM

You know, a part of me thinks it's not because Sasuke reminds him of himself, but because Naruto and Sakura remind of Obito and Rin, that he had trouble.

He probably saw them in Naruto and Sakura and probably made it difficult for him since they got killed off and he may feel a bit responsible for that.

And he may see himself as Sasuke, so he's trying to give Sasuke the necessary tools to protect both of them, something he couldn't do himself with Obito and Rin.

Of course, this is just my best guess that doesn't completely crap on him. Idk man. Still sucks tho that he didnt help Naruto and Sakura as much.

Edited by Wubbzy, 22 November 2017 - 04:59 PM.

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#32 T XD

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 05:20 PM

Kishimoto spent much time focusing on Sasuke which is why Kakashi is seen neglectful towards Naruto and Sakura in many instances. It would have been better if the protagonist was Sasuke.


Edited by T XD, 22 November 2017 - 05:20 PM.


#33 Tsuki Hoshino

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 05:29 PM

I honestly don't know why Kishi just didn't kill Naruto and focus on Sasuke since he wanted to so badly.

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#34 T XD

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 05:35 PM

I honestly don't know why Kishi just didn't kill Naruto and focus on Sasuke since he wanted to so badly.

Cause he already made Naruto the protagonist talking about his story as much as he can and he named the manga ' Naruto '.



#35 Tsuki Hoshino

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 05:37 PM

Yeah but it can still be called Naruto and be about Sasuke. It could be like, Sasuke completing Naruto's dreams for him :zaru: easy.

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#36 T XD

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 05:41 PM

Yeah but it can still be called Naruto and be about Sasuke. It could be like, Sasuke completing Naruto's dreams for him :zaru: easy.

That's too, but it seems he embraced the first option which his intentions were the contrary of his choice from what he writes in the story.


Edited by T XD, 22 November 2017 - 05:41 PM.


#37 James S Cassidy

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 07:28 PM

Sometimes you can see why Kakashi was so neglectful of Naruto and Sakura because it seemed like he had nothing to contribute to them, but the fact that he spent so much time with Sasuke because they both had a sharingan is telling. I guess one could argue kakashi taught Naruto the rasenshurikan, but I felt he could have taught this to him earlier. Maybe even taught them all of their elemental abilities and how to harness them. He is "thousand jutsu" Kakashi. No doubt he would have learned something they both can do.

Maybe teach Naruto some wind techniques or Sakura some...what is her element again? Was it Earth? *looks it up* Okay, Earth and Water. So she totally learn something of those since Kakashi knows some water techniques evident by the Zabuza fight. Since Sakura is Earth and Water....too bad Kishimoto didn't give Sakura wood techniques. That would have been cool. Make her the new Hashirama of sorts. Could have even made it come out understand extreme emotion. Hey, they gave the Sharingan, Rinnegan, and all other kinds of BS to everyone else, so why not this?

You could have had Yamato teach Sakura wood techniques with it. I don't know. Point is, for a person like Kakashi who can do "a thousand jutsu," he could have taught them something.

As for emotional support, yeah Kakashi always sucked at that. I am surprised he pushed for Sasuke and Sakura when he denied Rin her feelings...maybe that is why he pushed them because he felt bad that he killed Rin and never returned her feelings which means he wanted to make up his sins with Sasuke and Sakura. If that is true, Kakashi is so full of it. The fact that he taught Sasuke the chidori knowing full well that he was out for revenge is pathetic and stupid. "Won't teach Naruto the rasengan, but I will teach Sasuke, a child bent on revenge, the most deadly assasination technique known to man."
2v96hzq.jpg
 

LeeSaku doesn't work for me. I can't see her being amused by Lee's eccentricity in the way that she is with Naruto... It's too in your face and constant. Naruto is a goofball and makes her laugh, but he also has his moments of quiet care for her. Lee would be way too much. He'd want to carry her bridal style everywhere. Also I think she still has some of that Ino type shallowness where she wants a handsome guy, and Naruto did become that. Lee is never going to fit that ideal. I just don't think Sakura would ever come around to him, even if Sasuke and Naruto both died or something.

Yeah, I don't see LeeSaku either. Not because Lee is a bad guy, but they just aren't compatible and Lee sees alot of things like in a competition. Imagine a wife who likes to stay at home and relax more often and Lee constantly saying "Let's go rock climbing, let's go do this." Lee is sometimes a danger seeker and really Lee would need someone who can either put up with that for his hidden charm or is exactly like him. Still better than Sasuke, but still...

it's hard to explain really, but...Lee doesn't seem like a person who would know when to stop... and it is important to stop and smell the roses.


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#38 Tsuki Hoshino

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 07:40 PM

I swear it's like some people who claim to have gone to school for writing can't read subtext at all...

@James it would have been fitting if Sakura's elements had been wood and water but that's like too symbolic for Kishi in his later stages of writing where he basically just threw random junk he thought was cool into the mix.

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#39 James S Cassidy

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 07:58 PM

I swear it's like some people who claim to have gone to school for writing can't read subtext at all...

@James it would have been fitting if Sakura's elements had been wood and water but that's like too symbolic for Kishi in his later stages of writing where he basically just threw random junk he thought was cool into the mix.

Yeah, give Kishimoto too much credit right?

Bold: Subtext? They can't even read context correctly.

Naruto: "I am so in love with Sakura. She is amazing. I wish she was my girlfriend. Want to go on a date?"
Them: "Doesn;t mean anything. He loves her like a sister. He is so caring like that."

Sasuke: "Sorry, Karin."
Them: "He doesn't care about his teammate. It's just a formality."

Sakura: "I don't want Naruto to hurt anymore because...
Yamato: "I can see that you...."
Them: "Totally love him like a brother. That is exactly what he was going to say."

Sakura hugs Naruto
Them: "Totally means nothing"
Hinata holds Naruto's hand
Them: "True love at its finest."

Sasuke: "I see no reason why she should love me and I see no reason why I should love her."
Them: "Oh he is so shy. He totally loves Sakura, he just can't admit it yet because he is shy."

Naruto: "Oh, hi Hinata...."
Them: "OMG, DID YOU HEAR THAT? HE PRATICALLY CONFESSED TO HER. THEY ARE SO IN LOVE WITH EACH OTHER."

The more I think about it. The more I hate them.

I am glad DrK said what he did: The ending changed the context of everything done in the manga. Not the other way around like it should have.

I just want the pro-enders to suffer. I know it bad to think this way, but I just want them to feel the pain we felt. For them to be treated like garbage by these people. I don't care what it costs anymore because it already cost us everything else. Get NH and SS divroced and make NS canon. It won't make us happy for us to win this way, but just to see the pro-enders get so mad that they whine worse than use about iut would be totally worth it.

For better or worse, just destroy it all. I don't care about being a "better" fan or a "better" person. It is not worth it especially when all we get for it is a kick to the balls and a mockey by the fandom and the author.

When you get the point where you have nothing else to lose...then you stop caring what people think of your behavior.
 


Edited by James S Cassidy, 26 November 2017 - 07:59 PM.

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#40 Tsuki Hoshino

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 08:14 PM

Lmao all that's true, but I meant that SOMEONE can't seem to tell when people are being sarcastic, hyperbolic, or even flat out joking, or read the subtext to the comments people are making. They also refuse to acknowledge all that you posted, all while claiming they hold some degree. And that they know what a retcon is while refusing to accept obvious retcons for what they are.

If they have a degree their professors really dropped the ball.

Edited by Tsuki Hoshino, 26 November 2017 - 09:44 PM.

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