31579 replies to this topic

[BlueStarSaber]

 

Maybe. But in this case he is particularly proud of Sakura's ending.
 
Anyway Sakura reached her lowest ranking in popularity thanks to Kishimoto and the  bad  writting in Kage Summit Arc who almost ruined Sakura. 
 
Now ironically Sakura is more popular than ever when others mangakas/writers are responsible to write about her.

Sakura's ending sucks and most of sakura writting post ending isn't good.

[Therece]

Sakura's ending sucks and most of sakura writting post ending isn't good.

 

It's still much better than everything that Ikemoto created in his Boruto manga who ruined Sasuke/Naruto popularity and the sales as well.

 

 

Anyway aside the bad writing in Kage Summit Arc to the entire Team 7.

In my opinion this is the Arc who made Kishimoto seriously consider to remove NaruSaku from his final plans thanks to his stupid strategy. Same thing happened in Sarada Gaiden when in less than two weeks he confirmed Sakura-Sarada are biological mother-daughter and turned the Karin thing a red herring.

But NS never was a red herring.

 

He had some type of plan for NaruSaku until he went full retarded adding a fourth element in the love triangle thing with Hinata's confession

Sakura received a lot of hate and backlash with her confession to Naruto, including in JAPAN. The place who loved Sakura the most. (Unlike the Sakura's ending when two SasuSaku scenes were ranked as the best TOP 5 shippuuden moments and everybody got angry with the simply insinuating that Sarada wasn't Sakura's daughter.)

 

The fact that Sakura's confession was after Hinata's "pure" confession only made the situation worst for Kishimoto and NaruSaku.  Sakura was abandoning Sasuke, lying/manipulate Naruto and still ignoring Hinata's feelings.  Kishimoto was questioned a lot of times what he wanted to achieve with that stupid second confession and the third in manga.  Probably the editors just told him to forget NS since this could generate even more backlash against Sakura and him from audience and SS/NH fans.

 

 

 

 

Thats why he said in a interview, he would make Sakura a bad woman for abandoning Sasuke. Now seeing Sakura popular like never before as "Mrs uchiha" with much more room to develop SS/Sakura/Sasuke, milk their fans and still try to revive some part of the franchise..

Kishimoto is now certain that was the best choice.    :

Edited by Therece, 16 April 2023 - 02:58 AM.

[Namaenash]

SS doesnt sell. Their recent manga bombed like nobody business. The ending pretty much wiped out >95% of their revenue, so, since now its proven that NH & SS are financially small, I doubt theyll make more content about them. Good riddance.

Smart move for Kishi to write about Minato. Its the safest bet really. It just further proof that the people that cares are the remaining very few loyal readers from the original series. No one from Boruto, or Next Generation made it in the list. If the Minato manga sales is less than Boruto, he pretty much going to proof that nothing can be done to revive the series.

Speaking of the list, Id take public poll with a grain of salt frankly. Not only the data is full of noise, but you also cant infer who are actually contributing financially. Furthermore, doing poll now is only demonstrate survivorship bias.

https://upload.wikim...ip-bias.svg.png

[Therece]

Retsuden Manga got 50K of Sales. Half of Boruto Sales. Minato didn't got 30k of votes in Japan.

Actually Minato was in #8 in Japan. Minato have  less votes than Sakura, Naruto, Sasuke, Itachi, Shikamaru and even Obito in Japan. The place who matters for Kishimoto/Jump.

 

So i doubt a Spin off or any other thing about him in Japan could sell better if the character barely got votes in his home place.The most safe option from Kishimoto was the characters in Top 5 in Japan who are Itachi, Kakashi, Sakura, Sasuke and naruto.  Team 7 and the entire secondary cast can appear all together because they are still alive.

 

Also Kishimoto just will write a one shot with few pages about Minato like Mitsuki oneShot.

Not a Full Volume.

Edited by Therece, 15 April 2023 - 10:40 PM.

[Namaenash]

Precisely my point. The sales was very bad. Im sure the publisher dont target it to be half the sales of Boruto.

No smart people would come to business plans meeting to suggest that Hey, lets publish a new manga and aim for half the sales of our current manga series. Publishing manga requires not just content creators investment, but also logistics muscles.

These are not charity. They do this for a living. The price of a manga volume is 400-500 yen (which is about $3 - $3.75). Its widely known that its a thin margin business. So, you got to aim for high volume to drives profits. Its also known that manga with low sales are being subsidised by the few larger ones. Since it may take time for the manga to take off. Thats up to Shueisha to manage. So, nett nett, publishing more mangas under the same franchise means higher production cost.

So, how much is required for a series to break even? (I.e run without subsidies). No one knows the exact answer except the publisher, in this case Shueisha. My intuition tells me the threshold is about 175k - 200k sales per volume. Why? Since this is the threshold to which Boruto manga moved to V-Jump Magazine from the prime WSJ, back in July 2019 after their last two volumes didnt sold beyond 175k copies.

Shueisha essentially gave up with this series since July 2019, re-categorised it as series that needs subsidies (I.e. beneficiaries), no longer a series that gives subsidies (I.e. benefactor/donor). No point beating a dead horse. Its already dead.

I think they are surprised that the sales of Sasuke Retsuden is so low. The same way theyre surprised they loose >95% of sales by going with NH/SS and created Boruto: Naruto Next Generation. Which is why theyre trying to gauge whats needed to be done next by asking polls, etc.

[LuckyChi7]

SS doesnt sell. Their recent manga bombed like nobody business. The ending pretty much wiped out >95% of their revenue, so, since now its proven that NH & SS are financially small, I doubt theyll make more content about them. Good riddance.

Smart move for Kishi to write about Minato. Its the safest bet really. It just further proof that the people that cares are the remaining very few loyal readers from the original series. No one from Boruto, or Next Generation made it in the list. If the Minato manga sales is less than Boruto, he pretty much going to proof that nothing can be done to revive the series.

Speaking of the list, Id take public poll with a grain of salt frankly. Not only the data is full of noise, but you also cant infer who are actually contributing financially. Furthermore, doing poll now is only demonstrate survivorship bias.

https://upload.wikim...ip-bias.svg.png

 

 

Also remembering the simple notion that Kishimoto has expressed interest in the past about Minato so it's gonna be something to keep in eye on whenever it does come out. 

[Therece]

Precisely my point. The sales was very bad. Im sure the publisher dont target it to be half the sales of Boruto.

No smart people would come to business plans meeting to suggest that Hey, lets publish a new manga and aim for half the sales of our current manga series. Publishing manga requires not just content creators investment, but also logistics muscles.

These are not charity. They do this for a living. The price of a manga volume is 400-500 yen (which is about $3 - $3.75). Its widely known that its a thin margin business. So, you got to aim for high volume to drives profits. Its also known that manga with low sales are being subsidised by the few larger ones. Since it may take time for the manga to take off. Thats up to Shueisha to manage. So, nett nett, publishing more mangas under the same franchise means higher production cost.

So, how much is required for a series to break even? (I.e run without subsidies). No one knows the exact answer except the publisher, in this case Shueisha. My intuition tells me the threshold is about 175k - 200k sales per volume. Why? Since this is the threshold to which Boruto manga moved to V-Jump Magazine from the prime WSJ, back in July 2019 after their last two volumes didnt sold beyond 175k copies.

Shueisha essentially gave up with this series since July 2019, re-categorised it as series that needs subsidies (I.e. beneficiaries), no longer a series that gives subsidies (I.e. benefactor/donor). No point beating a dead horse. Its already dead.

I think they are surprised that the sales of Sasuke Retsuden is so low. The same way theyre surprised they loose >95% of sales by going with NH/SS and created Boruto: Naruto Next Generation. Which is why theyre trying to gauge whats needed to be done next by asking polls, etc.

 

Well. Did Rock Lee SD or any Novel sold more than any Naruto Volume at the time? Probably not.

Road to Ninja novel with NaruSaku/MinaKushi content just sold 20k.By that logic neither NaruSaku was profitable at the time when the franchise was at the peak. Maybe this is the reason why Kishimoto decided to sell out and kill NS.

 

 

 

 

Retsuden sales is simply good for Boruto new patamar of sales.  Retsuden got 45.000/50.000 of Boruto sales when the expected should be 10k

 

The franchise could survive easily with SS/NH or even with a NS ending.Boruto sales dropped because:

 

1)Otsutsuki aliens/Kara generic and boring

2)Kawaki/Boruto is nowhere compared to Sasuke/Naruto dinamic.

3) Replacing Kishimoto with Ikemoto

4) No Uchihas/Sharingan.

5)They nerfed Sasuke and Naruto

Sasuke was stabbed in the eye and Naruto lost Kurama. Both are useless and jobbed by alliens in Boruto. Trash on your two main characters in this way are enough to destroy a franchise. 

 

This isn't a coincidence why Sakura is the most popular Team 7 member in Japan and Worldwide. Boruto was killing Naruto's franchise during 8 years. Hardly any novel or side manga will sell as good like 2015.  

Any producer is realistically intelligent to know that. Boruto simply lost 90% of the total Naruto Volume Sales and Novels Sales. 

 

This is just a Spin Off manga not write by Kishimoto. At this point only the own Kishimoto writing something could suparss the 100k of sales of Boruto and Minato isn't a good bet in Japan.

The character was out of TOP 5 there. If he have plans to revive the franchise he should focus in alive characters who have future.

Edited by Therece, 16 April 2023 - 05:26 AM.

[Namaenash]

Youre talking about adjacent product (Rock Lee) vs actual strategic pivot of the product (Boruto & SS manga). Its not Apple-to-Apple comparison.

One (Rock Lee) is meant for adjacent, normally for the purpose of marketing / fan service. For sure budget will come from marketing budget, which is money meant to be burned (typically goes to advertisements, joint merchandise products, etc). Think of Databook.

The other (Boruto , SS) is meant to extend the livelihood of this franchise. This comes from their production budget.

Simply put, they took the wrong bet with NH/SS and killed the significant few that finance the series. That much is clear and the manga sales clearly provide the facts. Other details are just made up excuses to justify the wrong decision.

[Therece]

But this is exactly the case for Retsuden. Just a Novel with a Filler Plot to show SS Fanverse and appeal Sasuke/Sakura Fans. Do you really think the ridiculous Dinosaur plot  who is dumb even for Part 1 standards is something serious?

 

Saying Boruto lost sales because SS/NH fault because they aren't profitable and the NS fans were the majority of the Fandom isn't really a good argument. 

 

Because we have Road to Ninja Novel who was basically a story for NS fans fulls of parallel with MinaKushi . Even with the movie, the novel just sold 20k, less than twice compared to Retsuden and much less than the post novels like the Sakura Hiden with SS story.

 

Boruto lost sales for inumerous reason not solely for Pairings reasons.

Edited by Therece, 16 April 2023 - 02:13 PM.

[Namaenash]

The facts have spoken for themselves and I pity folks who cant comprehend basic statistics, such as Pareto principles or Pareto / power law distribution. If you cant relate to this, theres no point to debate really. Im happy with my facts, and you can stay with your opinion.

No one is saying NS fans is the majority of the fandom. My argument has always been around Pareto principles. The significant few who support this series financially. You take it out, you wipe out majority of the income. As simple as that. In Naruto franchise case, NH/SS readers are NOT the significant few. NS is certainly part of that significant few.

https://en.m.wikiped...areto_principle

https://en.m.wikiped...to_distribution

[TheFirstEvil100]

Wasnt the Road to Ninja Novel only for Japan and a select few places around the world?

[Therece]

Just cut out this superiority air.  

 

Just explain why Road to Ninja Movie have less box office than The Last ( NH Movie well knows for his Flop) and not even a half than Boruto Movie estreling SS/NH and Sarada/Boruto.

 

(Just like a lot of Japonese people hated the Last  false advertisement using Kakashi/Sasuke a lot of people hated Road the Ninja for the   false advertisement using SS, Sasuke and NH)

 

 

Why Road to Ninja official Novel have less than twice as sales compared to Retsuden, 20% of Sakura Hidden who sold 100k and just 2.1% of Sarada Gaiden who sold 900.000?

 

NS fandom simply isn't big or important for sales like you think in Japan and hardly they will make any diference in Boruto Sales.

Edited by Therece, 16 April 2023 - 06:19 PM.

[Namaenash]

I meant no disrespect. Simply stating the facts, instead of opinions. And the fact is as clear as day: NS was part of the significant few that finance the franchise.

Where were you in 2012? RtN novel was part of the movies promotional material (read: advertisements). This is widely known. Again, youre trying to compare adjacent products vs strategic products.

One is marketing budget, the other one is franchises production budget. Once again, its not Apple-to-Apple comparison.

One is designed to be printed in limited numbers (promotional purpose to the adjacent product), the other one is designed for strategic growth and customer stickiness (print as much as budget allowed to be in the circulation, cross fingers the sales rate goes beyond the target so that publishers wont bite the bullet for returned copies from sales channels. If sales go beyond the target, reprint again and push to the circulation using some of the revenue generated from the previous prints batch. Rinse and repeat.).

I think youre confusing yourself. Look, I know its hard to accept the fact that NH/SS just doesnt sell and they turned out to be the smallest segment that barks the loudest. The facts are just right in front of us. Not worth to dwell in details and cherry pick frankly. It further exhibits the limited understanding you might have when it comes to manga industry in Japan (publications, circulations, etc).

Edited by Namaenash, 16 April 2023 - 07:11 PM.

[milan kyuubi]

Looking trough my old posts at AS forum. I found this old NaruSaku Doujin from 2009.

 

https://www.devianta...pag-1-111229542

[Nostradamus]

I think people are confused that it still sells. To which if that's the case I would have to say there will always be a group of people that's willing to support the thing they like even though the quality went down. Unless it's truly catastrophically bad.

Maybe people were expecting with Naruto when the ending came out to completely stop selling anything.

[Illnevergiveup3]

Just cut out this superiority air.  
 
Just explain why Road to Ninja Movie have less box office than The Last ( NH Movie well knows for his Flop) and not even a half than Boruto Movie estreling SS/NH and Sarada/Boruto.
 
(Just like a lot of Japonese people hated the Last  false advertisement using Kakashi/Sasuke a lot of people hated Road the Ninja for the   false advertisement using SS, Sasuke and NH)
 
 
Why Road to Ninja official Novel have less than twice as sales compared to Retsuden, 20% of Sakura Hidden who sold 100k and just 2.1% of Sarada Gaiden who sold 900.000?
 
NS fandom simply isn't big or important for sales like you think in Japan and hardly they will make any diference in Boruto Sales.

shes got you on the ropes bra. You have to wrap your arm behind the ropes to prevent from falling after a knockout. You looking a little dizzy.

[LuckyChi7]

shes got you on the ropes bra. You have to wrap your arm behind the ropes to prevent from falling after a knockout. You looking a little dizzy.

 

A bit too dizzzy from what I'm seeing. 

Edited by LuckyChi7, 18 April 2023 - 03:11 AM.

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

Next week is another Naruto-kH podcast.

It's also my birthday on Friday.

[Therece]

shes got you on the ropes bra. You have to wrap your arm behind the ropes to prevent from falling after a knockout. You looking a little dizzy.

 

 

 

 

The fact remains the same no matter who some of you try to ignore data.

NS wasn't so much profitable compared to SS/NH when you consider the only novel focused in NS relationship that was Road to Ninja, not even the Movie/Novel was enough to save NaruSaku popularity at the time from the fiasco Kage Summit Arc and the huge backlash Sakura received in Japan. Maybe this was decisive to Kishimoto/Editors kill NS at the end.

Replace Hinata with Sakura as Naruto's housewife and Boruto's series is still kitten.

Sakura is popular like never before both worldwide and in Japan even without  the NS fandom who died, disbanded or even hates Sakura after the manga ending.

Even as old NS sympatizer, I'm not desilusional. But if some of you still wants to live inside a NaruSaku bubble in this forum, Makes really no differences.

Edited by Therece, 19 April 2023 - 05:43 AM.

[Dalton.T.R]

If I recall correctly, didn't they falsely advertise "The Last" as a NS movie but then secretly changed Sakura to Hinata? I remember people talking about a huge outcry in Japan at the time over something along those lines. People went to the theaters expecting to see Naruto and Sakura, then saw it was Naruto and Hinata. A lot of people just stood up and left the movie, but they weren't allowed refunds. 

 

If I'm remembering this correctly, that's some shady business from SP and would answer why "The Last" sold better than "RtN." But it's possible I'm just misremembering since its been basically a decade.