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Sakura was written to be Disliked


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#21 jak123

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 07:02 PM

I don't remember if Kishimoto said it specifically. I believe he must have since she got super pissed at him over the ending and he tried to comfort her by saying she was like Hinata, but she didn't believe him. 
I do remember that even other people (I don't remember if it was Jump staff or who) but they said his wife looked like Sakura.

 

Well, he must have told her something else at first. Apparently she loved Sakura and thought NS would happen very early on. So she sat with those thoughts for YEARS. Both she and Naruto's VA hated the pairings and ending. Wonder how many others in the cast also did.

 

I swear, people who hate Sakura saying "she's useless" or "she's abusive to Naruto" or whatever are getting more and more desperate to "prove" how their blind hate is right. They're not even pretending to give actual legit criticism anymore

 

Comedy violence doesn't count because it's usually exaggerated. Sakura never hit Naruto in a non-comedic situation. 

Real abuse is what Sasuke did to her. He also neglects the kitten out of her which can be seen as a form of emotional abuse.



#22 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 07:12 PM

Well, he must have told her something else at first. Apparently she loved Sakura and thought NS would happen very early on. So she sat with those thoughts for YEARS. Both she and Naruto's VA hated the pairings and ending. Wonder how many others in the cast also did.

 

Comedy violence doesn't count because it's usually exaggerated. Sakura never hit Naruto in a non-comedic situation. 

Real abuse is what Sasuke did to her. He also neglects the kitten out of her which can be seen as a form of emotional abuse.

Kishimoto even after he was told Sakura was unpopular. Said that Kushina was thought up and based off his wife. The character most compared to Kushina is Sakura. Naruto is Kishimoto, and Sakura is his wife; it isn't that hard to connect the dots. It like I been saying NS was Kishimoto telling his wife, "I'm sorry I can't be with you at the moment due to my work schedule but the main pairing of Naruto (NS) represents us, and my love for you." Then at the last moment he gave up and went with the rich sexy shy girl that is nothing like her. How do you think she felt?


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 08 July 2018 - 08:52 PM.


#23 RulesofNature

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 07:41 PM


The switching of their personality traits is more SP's doing in Boruto. They want to make Hinata more like, and Sakura less; so start giving Hinata some of Sakura's personality and vice versa.

 

Just look at Boruto himself. In the original movie, he was a supremely talented kid who never worked hard in his life. He never applied himself to his training, hence why cheating was such an alluring option for him when his own skill set was lacking. The device allowed him to do things he couldn't do, and Naruto noticed it. Then we get the anime version of these events, where Boruto knows those moves already and was able to advance in the competition without cheating.

 

They have NO IDEA what they're doing with these characters, that much is clear. They don't understand them or what makes them tick, which has become a major problem over time. Old Naruto would have chewed Boruto's dad's ass out a long time ago for not being there for his family or changing the system, but nah. Boruto's Dad is the coolest guy after Obito.


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#24 RulesofNature

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 07:53 PM

She was never written to be disliked. Kishimoto didn't really know what he was doing, but he wrote her to reflect real girls. She grew out of that immature phase and became an awesome girl.

Honestly, it's fact she's pretty universally loved. The only place she has a huge anti-group is the western fandom. Western culture and tropes are vastly different from Japan's and that's why Sakura is loved in Japan, but hated in America. Also a lot of kids started with Naruto as their first anime. So age and maturity played a role. Thinking on it some more, I think the Western fandom was a huge factor in killing the series. Especially since the biased editors used American Hinatard videos to support their point. "Forget the fact our Japanese fandom loves Sakura over Hinata, and loves NaruSaku look at what America loves!!!" I really wish Naruto never left Japan. :/
I was watching the series before it touched American shores, so I would have totally been fine.

 

Even in America, I think the Sakura-hate is over-exaggerated. Naruto was able to establish a casual fanbase, who ended up turning against the show due to various issues both on screen and online. I actually have a friend who never got into the series because she heard about all the shipping wars of which Hinata was the center. Hell, I was a casual fan during it's initial run and I thought Hinata was nothing special.

 

I swear, people who hate Sakura saying "she's useless" or "she's abusive to Naruto" or whatever are getting more and more desperate to "prove" how their blind hate is right. They're not even pretending to give actual legit criticism anymore

 

We had that thread analyzing NaruSaku moments throughout the manga. I really think that we should do the same for the NaruHina moments, examining the implications of them as well as highlighting how Hinata doesn't understand Naruto.


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#25 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 08:33 PM

Just look at Boruto himself. In the original movie, he was a supremely talented kid who never worked hard in his life. He never applied himself to his training, hence why cheating was such an alluring option for him when his own skill set was lacking. The device allowed him to do things he couldn't do, and Naruto noticed it. Then we get the anime version of these events, where Boruto knows those moves already and was able to advance in the competition without cheating.

 

They have NO IDEA what they're doing with these characters, that much is clear. They don't understand them or what makes them tick, which has become a major problem over time. Old Naruto would have chewed Boruto's dad's ass out a long time ago for not being there for his family or changing the system, but nah. Boruto's Dad is the coolest guy after Obito.

I disagree, they have an idea it just doesn't work with the material they were given. They want to make Bolt the perfect shounen protagonist to justify their sleazy practices to make nH happen, but it just doesn't work with what they are given. Boruto designed by kishimoto is more gifted then his father, but is lazy. He clearly was better educated then Naruto, but lacks his creativity/ingenuity. Though over all he is still a kid with room to grow. That's Kishimoto, and the manga's Bolt. SP is the most perfect born genius to have ever existed, and ever will exist. Top of his class the moment he started the academy able at the age of seven to go up against demon, jounin, chunin, and older children and win handedly. Genius that excel and master anything the second he see it, and so on.

 

I have not seen the anime chunin exam, but in the manga bolt had to use the device to survive the exams, as far as I can tell from what I have heard in the anime he was able to hold his own with the device only enhancing his natural talent.

 

Even in America, I think the Sakura-hate is over-exaggerated. Naruto was able to establish a casual fanbase, who ended up turning against the show due to various issues both on screen and online. I actually have a friend who never got into the series because she heard about all the shipping wars of which Hinata was the center. Hell, I was a casual fan during it's initial run and I thought Hinata was nothing special.

 

We had that thread analyzing NaruSaku moments throughout the manga. I really think that we should do the same for the NaruHina moments, examining the implications of them as well as highlighting how Hinata doesn't understand Naruto.

People pitied, and were sympathetic to Hinata. Spend anytime with her fanatic, and those feeling will disappear by the end of a month; tops. The only thing they have ever really accomplished is damage the series: they drive away fans that got sick of the pairing wars, scared off potential fans, and ultimately them getting what they always wanted destroyed the IP.

 

Go ahead there only like ten or so shouldn't take you too long.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 08 July 2018 - 08:34 PM.


#26 DrK

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 08:45 PM

Go ahead there only like ten or so shouldn't take you too long.

In terms of scenes with the two characters on panel together and there is a dialogue, there's like half that many... and in only half of that half do both of them actually talk. They had only one real conversation.



#27 jak123

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 09:31 PM

In terms of scenes with the two characters on panel together and there is a dialogue, there's like half that many... and in only half of that half do both of them actually talk. They had only one real conversation.

And yet somehow she's his "soulmate" over Sakura.



#28 Nostradamus

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 09:32 PM

Planned and Naruto just don't mix.

To say that things were planned is foolish. Yahagi was the writer, and even he wasn't good.

Naruto was just a story where it wasn't thought through in advance. Why? Most likely because no one knew it was going to take off the way it did. And when it did, they were too preoccupied in making it to actually stop and think about the bigger picture and how it all tides up.

They believed it will work itself out in the end.

And after Kishi lost Yahagi, all went down the tubes since the writing fell on Kishi. Someone who is only good at drawing.

 

You can only say that some basic things were planned. Like having a fight between Naruto and Sasuke. Or having the loud mouth end with the tsundere. Or having a grand battle against a generic bad guy where the heroes fight together to stop him. These basic things.

Anyone who says that Naruto was planned, just show that person the Tobi-Obito reveal.

 

If you need more proof just look at Naruto and Sasuke's great friendship. It was never developed early on and then later on we just got these ridiculous moments that tried really hard to show that Naruto and Sasuke are destined friends and brothers for life and their love is immortal and even though they're destined to fight each other, they're also destined to love each other because best friend and brother BS. All these forced moments that are baseless because no one thought about it early on.

 

Winging it, describes Naruto.   


Edited by Nostradamus, 08 July 2018 - 10:40 PM.

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Which I've told you - time and time again - is dangerous! There will never be consensus, son, among those you have helped to ascend. They will all differ in their views of what it means to be free. The peace you so desperately seek does not exist.
 
These men are united now by a common cause. But when this battle is finished they will fall to fighting amongst themselves about how best to ensure control. In time it will lead to war. You will see.


#29 TheFirstEvil100

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 09:48 PM

Yeah, I am planning a post on changes that could be done soon it would be by Arc first and for more the Land of Iron Arc.



#30 rocci

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 11:19 PM

Sakura is not Made to be disliked.
She's Made to be annoying character, because Kishi thought it is interesting. This is taken from Naruto author note in the early volume of Naruto.

I can get where he come from because most Japanese Mangaka rarely make perfect Heroine. Most of them has flaw because most author then can develop them. From Nami, kagome, winry, casca, Akira "Heroine", and so on. All of them has hater but since the authors has either plan or writing skill to make them likeable or relevant to the story, the hated is not as big as sakura.

Sakura is universally hated, so it's not only in the western fandom.

#31 Tiller

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 04:30 AM

I swear, people who hate Sakura saying "she's useless" or "she's abusive to Naruto" or whatever are getting more and more desperate to "prove" how their blind hate is right. They're not even pretending to give actual legit criticism anymore

 

Most people I know who hate Sakura hate her because of what happened to her in the ending, and how ultimately she became a sad pathetic girl who went back to a guy who once tried to kill her. And not only that but she did so by just being persistent, going after him again and again. Many think Sasuke could of beaten her, and Sakura would have went back to him. Since Sasuke tried killing her and she went back to him, they don't have much to say she wouldn't have gone to him even if he did beat her up.

 

There isn't much you can say about canon Sakura because of the ending, all you can do is defend what she was before the ending destroyed her and made her a doormat.



 


#32 DrK

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 05:00 AM

 

Most people I know who hate Sakura hate her because of what happened to her in the ending, and how ultimately she became a sad pathetic girl who went back to a guy who once tried to kill her. And not only that but she did so by just being persistent, going after him again and again. Many think Sasuke could of beaten her, and Sakura would have went back to him.

It's rare that people here actually plainly state this. It is absolutely ABYSMAL. To end with SS this kitten was not necessary. It was not even desirable. It adds nothing to have Sasuke keep rejecting and hurting her if you are gonna end with SS. It could have been established that she was an important person to Sasuke and he struggled with trying to kill her or he was trying to kill her out of some misguided desire to kill his own soul. Nothing like that happened. Sasuke was being paired with Karin.

 

As far as how pathetic Sakura is, it's completely nonsensical that they did that, but more than that, it's... well, it's just pathetic.

 

This theme of a female character being hopeless in love with and repeatedly throwing herself at someone who doesn't care for her and has no issue killing her has no business in a shonen either. If you are drawing a shonen and you feel you have to include this theme then:

 

That female character shouldn't then have a contradictory tsundere personality. If she has to have that then she probably shouldn't be a central character. If you make her a central character anyway, you can probably save yourself a lot of grief by not making her the main character's love interest. If she has to be the MC's love interest then I feel you simply cannot afford to then subvert expectations and put her with the guy who keeps trying to kill her. Like you were writing a stereotypical shonen with a stereotypical shonen hero. A mainstream work. It's completely crazy to do this.


Edited by DrK, 09 July 2018 - 05:28 AM.


#33 Niky

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 01:36 PM

In terms of scenes with the two characters on panel together and there is a dialogue, there's like half that many... and in only half of that half do both of them actually talk. They had only one real conversation.

 

Sorry, I don't remember... WHEN???


“A good novel tells us the truth about its hero; but a bad novel tells us the truth about its author.”

G. K. Chesterton

 

tumblr_o3tosabkSm1untbo7o4_r2_250.gif

Their first encounter...


#34 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 01:57 PM

Sorry, I don't remember... WHEN???

The scene right before the neji Naruto fight by the old tean 7 training ground. The one time in the manga Naruto and Hinata actual hold a conversation.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 09 July 2018 - 04:32 PM.


#35 Yyubie

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 07:03 PM

 

Sorry, I don't remember... WHEN???

Before Naruto fight Neji during chunnin exam , he was very nervous and intimidated. But he meet Hinata and talk with her :

naruto-1566176.jpg

naruto-1566178.jpg

naruto-1566180.jpgnaruto-1566182.jpg

naruto-1566184.jpg

naruto-1566186.jpg

 

So yeah i think a lot of NH fans born from this scene , even me back then i was NH fans i'm still junior highschool.


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#36 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 07:47 PM

Before Naruto fight Neji during chunnin exam , he was very nervous and intimidated. But he meet Hinata and talk with her :

naruto-1566176.jpg

naruto-1566178.jpg

naruto-1566180.jpgnaruto-1566182.jpg

naruto-1566184.jpg

naruto-1566186.jpg

 

So yeah i think a lot of NH fans born from this scene , even me back then i was NH fans i'm still junior highschool.

 

I still think Hinata took this SO out of context when Naruto didn't mean romantically, he meant her tenacity, or what little she DID show. And so...



#37 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 11:54 PM

I like I said this is where Naruto now considers the two of them friends. They don't do anything else for the rest of part one, and in part two she mainly just gives speeches of how she is eternally in love with him.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 10 July 2018 - 04:58 AM.


#38 Phantom_999

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 12:32 AM


Before Naruto fight Neji during chunnin exam , he was very nervous and intimidated. But he meet Hinata and talk with her :
naruto-1566176.jpg
naruto-1566178.jpg
naruto-1566180.jpgnaruto-1566182.jpg
naruto-1566184.jpg
naruto-1566186.jpg
 
So yeah i think a lot of NH fans born from this scene , even me back then i was NH fans i'm still junior highschool.

 

And this is their first and ONLY significant interaction in the whole manga. Well there is their meet up in during the war arc but isn't that just a rehash of this conversation?


Edited by Phantom_999, 10 July 2018 - 12:35 AM.

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#39 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 12:56 AM

And this is their first and ONLY significant interaction in the whole manga. Well there is their meet up in during the war arc but isn't that just a rehash of this conversation?

 

Pretty much, man; Naruto telling Hinata to not be so hard on herself, yadda yadda yadda. X_X And this interaction from the Chunin Exams is taking so outta context by Hinata and her so-called "fans".



#40 Phantom_999

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 12:58 AM

But of course. He never asked her out for ramen now did he? :hehehe: So of course she didn't know his favourite food, he never mentioned it to her. AGAIN, WHAT A LOVELY COUPLE THEY MAKE :roll:

Edited by Phantom_999, 10 July 2018 - 07:32 AM.

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