160 replies to this topic

[Nawheetos]

Also a friend and I are debating and she was like. " Kishimoto is doing the pairings slowly and he knows he has to choose between narusaku and naruhina. He knows if he chooses either or he'll loose a fanbase. So he knows he has to drop narusaku since hes a naruhina fan himself "

I never really got that argument. I'm fairly sure the majority of fans don't give a crap about pairings, as long as Naruto kicks butt. People who care that much about pairings are a minority.

Sure, maybe it wasn't. Kakashi says on page 13 that Naruto isn't very good at this. He's not a perfect negotiator. He's 16 years old, and could never control his emotions well like the "calm and cool" types like Shikamaru or Gaara. That's how he is. It's pretty unfair to jump down his throat for it, and I don't see how it's foolishness or immaturity, especially since his intentions here are noble. And he's not looking for respect. He's trying to get his friend off the hook and prevent more senseless killing. Are people's lives not worth sacrificing a little dignity for? (Yeah, the way Naruto acted wasn't the best way to get through to Raikage, but it's the only way he knew how)

Well, his whole goal to save Sasuke is, in it's nature, pretty foolish. He knows it and doesn't care. But still, how is he "deluding himself"? You could say that before because he thought Sasuke was manipulated or something by Orochimaru/Itachi. But after all the stuff with Nagato, he now understands that hatred is ultimately what changed Sasuke.

Naruto is one of the most mature characters in the series. Being emotional does not make him an "immature pansy."

This. Everything. You said what I wanted to say

Naruto sticks to things - that's a defining trait of his character and that's what he's continuing to do, never mind if it hurts him or makes him look like an idiot - he's used to that. Giving up on Sasuke would be OOC and wouldn't fit the manga at all, so I just can't see it happening. It's not that Naruto is being blind about Sasuke either, which I've heard said before - he clearly states in this chapter that Sasuke is a far from desirable character at the moment. That's why he wants to save him. Raikage seemed to be spelling out the problems of the shinobi world. Naruto's 'solution' was far from the perfect one, but then there is no perfect solution, he just has to do the best he can. His development is far from over but I don't think his actions deserve the reaction they're getting.

Ahhh Sai ... I can't wait for next week already

Edited by DownsEndRoad, 24 July 2009 - 12:19 PM.

[dl316bh]

Are people's lives not worth sacrificing a little dignity for? (Yeah, the way Naruto acted wasn't the best way to get through to Raikage, but it's the only way he knew how)

Never said it wasn't. That bit was me being a bit sarcastic about the whole thing. A little snark about the situation. It didn't come through as that, I guess.

On the last bit, "the only way he knew how", I actually don't agree with that. Naruto's a resourceful kid. We've been shown this time and again. He's gotten through to people in a lot of different ways. Breaking down in front of a guy like the Raikage was not one of them. It simply did not feel like the action of the character we've followed for about four hundred chapters; to drop to his knees and cry, beg and plead does not feel like a Naruto solution. To me anyways; I'm sure some here will disagree.

Well, his whole goal to save Sasuke is, in it's nature, pretty foolish. He knows it and doesn't care.

In general, yes, it always has been. That wasn't what I was referring to in general though. But yeah, I know.

But still, how is he "deluding himself"?

He seems to think that he can actually manage to get Sasuke back and bring him back to Konoha. For the guy to be accepted again. After everything that's happened. That can't be anything but delusion.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, Naruto becomes Hokage by the end and pardons Sasuke. What does that do to his reputation? This is someone who deserted the village, for one thing, which almost led to the deaths of several younger ninja. He's joined the villages greatest enemy. Then he killed that enemy and joined the enemy of the world itself. No one is going to ever fully trust Sasuke again; many wouldn't even want to accept his presence. Many would even try to kill him; in just about any society treason is looked upon as one of the most deplorable of acts.

I could go on, but I feel like I'm going in circles and could swear I discussed this with you before (it might have been another user though and my memory could just be off). To try and cut to the point, up until this chapter he didn't seem to accept what Sasuke had become. He still doesn't seem to have acknowledged where things are. Perhaps there's a point to that; I'm not sure, as we don't know yet and I'm not Kishi.

Naruto is one of the most mature characters in the series. Being emotional does not make him an "immature pansy."

I said it makes him look like one, not that he is one. The issue is that for a relatively mature character - in some ways mind you, because he's still immature in others - that was damn sure not the mature way to handle it. Hell, it doesn't even seem like a Naruto thing to do.

It's not that Naruto is being blind about Sasuke either, which I've heard said before - he clearly states in this chapter that Sasuke is a far from desirable character at the moment.

Perhaps not. This chapter is actually the first time I've seen him acknowledge any of this in some way. It's nice to see, because it doesn't make him look completely blind to reality. But before this chapter, that was how he came off, for the most part.

Raikage seemed to be spelling out the problems of the shinobi world.

To be honest, the shinobi and ninja world in general can be argued to be a problem in itself. It typically revolves around death and destruction. You can't really fix those problems without shifting to something else entirely.

Edited by dl316bh, 24 July 2009 - 12:35 PM.

[Cloud]

Final verdict for me is....

Let Sasuke die. Honestly.

[Freakazoid]

Cloud speaks the truth.

[AchikaMiyu]

Wow, interesting chapter. I'm going to first talk about the Narusaku moment. I don't know about anyone else, but I think the shot of Naruto gazing after Sakura was really symbolic of how Naruto himself felt his chances were of getting Sakura. He personally thinks that there's a huge chasm between them and the main reason why is because of Sasuke and his promise to bring him back. It also shows that Naruto's will to let Sakura walk away from him if that's what will make her happy. I think that's setting up the situation where Sakura has to be the one to bridge that chasm Naruto's build up. She needs to be the one to come to him (like how we saw when she came up and hugged him). It's going to be interesting to see what Sai will say to her. Is he going to spell things out in the Sai kind of way and tell Sakura that she needs to take that extra step? I've always thought that Naruto and Sakura wouldn't get together until Sakura had made it clear to Naruto she chose him and not Sasuke. If Sai and Sakura find a way to make it to where Naruto is, that may prove to be a potential catylst for Sakura to demonstrate this to Naruto. We'll see.

On to the argument over Naruto's conversation with the Raikage. I personally think Naruto's weepy begging actually got to the Raikage. In that last panel when he turns over his shoulder to look at Naruto, that said to me that Naruto may have struck something in the Raikage that he hasn't admitted yet. Also, don't forget that the Raikage can be a deeply emotional guy. He did cry when his brother KillaBee was taken by Akatsuki. I think the Raikage may understand a bit where Naruto's coming from in terms of begging for the life of someone you consider a brother, even if he may be a complete a*hole (referring to Sasuke).

It will be interesting to see what the next chapter will be like. I'm wondering if Naruto's going to crash the meeting of the kages. Afterall, if Naruto wants to change the way shinobi's currently run as his father thinks he needs to, what better way to do that than to put his case in front of the 5 Kages. I know that some people may argue that having Naruto beg and grovel doesn't seem becoming of him, but this is what makes him different. I'm not going to judge about whether that's the best way or not yet. I think we're going to have to see what the results yield first before we can say. I mean, we've seen him fight tooth and nail to get Sasuke back at the Valley of End and we know how that turned out. Perhaps the passive route may be the best route right now.

[Sakura Blossoms]

Wow, interesting chapter. I'm going to first talk about the Narusaku moment. I don't know about anyone else, but I think the shot of Naruto gazing after Sakura was really symbolic of how Naruto himself felt his chances were of getting Sakura. He personally thinks that there's a huge chasm between them and the main reason why is because of Sasuke and his promise to bring him back. It also shows that Naruto's will to let Sakura walk away from him if that's what will make her happy. I think that's setting up the situation where Sakura has to be the one to bridge that chasm Naruto's build up. She needs to be the one to come to him (like how we saw when she came up and hugged him). It's going to be interesting to see what Sai will say to her. Is he going to spell things out in the Sai kind of way and tell Sakura that she needs to take that extra step? I've always thought that Naruto and Sakura wouldn't get together until Sakura had made it clear to Naruto she chose him and not Sasuke. If Sai and Sakura find a way to make it to where Naruto is, that may prove to be a potential catylst for Sakura to demonstrate this to Naruto. We'll see.

Quoted for absolute truth :3

And Sai = and has *always* = luff for meh

[Fox-And-Flower]

Wow, interesting chapter. I'm going to first talk about the Narusaku moment. I don't know about anyone else, but I think the shot of Naruto gazing after Sakura was really symbolic of how Naruto himself felt his chances were of getting Sakura. He personally thinks that there's a huge chasm between them and the main reason why is because of Sasuke and his promise to bring him back. It also shows that Naruto's will to let Sakura walk away from him if that's what will make her happy. I think that's setting up the situation where Sakura has to be the one to bridge that chasm Naruto's build up. She needs to be the one to come to him (like how we saw when she came up and hugged him). It's going to be interesting to see what Sai will say to her. Is he going to spell things out in the Sai kind of way and tell Sakura that she needs to take that extra step? I've always thought that Naruto and Sakura wouldn't get together until Sakura had made it clear to Naruto she chose him and not Sasuke. If Sai and Sakura find a way to make it to where Naruto is, that may prove to be a potential catylst for Sakura to demonstrate this to Naruto. We'll see.

i also liked that panel. it was beautiful

i liked that fact that when he was watching sakura walk away, there was nothing else around them but yeah, i believe sakura's gonna have to make that move. im just so damn excited about what sai will tell her!
but we might have to wait. it probably wont even be in this chapter , or it'll come back much later as a flashback or sumthing. here's hoping we actually get to see the conversation they have, soon

[Nick Soapdish]

On the last bit, "the only way he knew how", I actually don't agree with that. Naruto's a resourceful kid. We've been shown this time and again. He's gotten through to people in a lot of different ways. Breaking down in front of a guy like the Raikage was not one of them. It simply did not feel like the action of the character we've followed for about four hundred chapters; to drop to his knees and cry, beg and plead does not feel like a Naruto solution. To me anyways; I'm sure some here will disagree.

I don't think that it's the solution. I think that Naruto is going to need to kick some butt in front of the raikage as well - in order to prove that he's strong and that he's able to do what has to be done.

Not thrilled about the grovelling, but if he can back that up with a show of strength, he can show that being a peace-lover doesn't mean that the idea is weak.

Wow, interesting chapter. I'm going to first talk about the Narusaku moment. I don't know about anyone else, but I think the shot of Naruto gazing after Sakura was really symbolic of how Naruto himself felt his chances were of getting Sakura. He personally thinks that there's a huge chasm between them and the main reason why is because of Sasuke and his promise to bring him back. It also shows that Naruto's will to let Sakura walk away from him if that's what will make her happy. I think that's setting up the situation where Sakura has to be the one to bridge that chasm Naruto's build up. She needs to be the one to come to him (like how we saw when she came up and hugged him). It's going to be interesting to see what Sai will say to her. Is he going to spell things out in the Sai kind of way and tell Sakura that she needs to take that extra step? I've always thought that Naruto and Sakura wouldn't get together until Sakura had made it clear to Naruto she chose him and not Sasuke. If Sai and Sakura find a way to make it to where Naruto is, that may prove to be a potential catylst for Sakura to demonstrate this to Naruto. We'll see.

Agreed 100%.

It's nice to get confirmation on why Naruto is chasing after Sakura quite as fervently.

[Leney]

It has already killed me. I left in my will that i would like for Kishimoto to make my dream pair come true. Oh and my sister gets me car

My reaction reading everything until that moment:

My reaction afterwards; AHJDLKAJHFLKAJHDLKAJHGBDKJAHLKDJHAl ALSD:LAJKD *squeee* *dies*

Okay, I will edit this post when I've actually finished reading the chapter. But I had to let that out.

[Shadowmoon~]

This chapter was awesome!

Naruto breaking down for the sake of Sasuke, might look foolish for others, but for me, I think that it really shows how much he cares for Sasuke. Even after all Sasuke had done, Naruto still wants to save him, and bring him out of his state. That is why many people like Naruto. He is different.

He is a ninja, who has a monster inside of him, who is considered a Sage, and who is inspiring to be Hokage. He could have used his powers to beat his enemies senseless, but he didn't! He would never fight for hatred and revenge, and he is following Jiraiya's principle of peace. He is really different.

I'm so proud of him~

Breaking down like that really shows how much he would go, and how much he would sacrifice, to save Sasuke. That is very heroic.

The Raikage is apparently considering it, since he looked back at Naruto.

---

The NaruSaku moment there was beautiful! I almost cried. I think that it really shows that Naruto loves Sakura, and would have to fullfill his promise to her, because he cares about her, and he wants to see her smile and be happy. GO NARUSAKU!

You rock Sai! I can't wait for the next chapter! I would really like to see what he would say to Sakura. I hope they talk about what Naruto is doing, for her and Sasuke. Maybe, we'll get to see some NaruSaku love. Sakura would see Naruto in a new light, and that is what we all want to see.

---

Edited by Shadowmoon-Sakura, 24 July 2009 - 03:24 PM.

[Smiter]

I'm still so excited, I can't wait for next week's chapter!

In fact, I haven't slept at all since I came home from work this morning.

Of all the people who could possibly bring Naruto and Sakura together, who would have guessed it could be the socially-stunted Sai? XD

(Suspension of NaruSaku fanboying)

Hopefully, this chapter also marks another lesson for Naruto. Begging gets you nowhere. If you want peace, you have to stand tall, be strong, and be prepared to make hard choices. There is never going to be a perfect existence.

(Back to NaruSaku fanboying)

ARRGHH, WHAT WILL SAKURA SAY? WHAT WILL HAPPEN WHEN NARUTO AND SAKURA MEET AGAIN?

[RyrineaHaruno]

the only thing I can say about this chapter is you rock Sai xD

Edited by RyrineaHaruno, 24 July 2009 - 03:30 PM.

[Freakazoid]

I respect alot of Naruto's character and reasoning......I just find nothing heroic or good about laying on the ground before someone crying over a traitor. Come on! Naruto said in his speech that Sasuke is nothing like he use to be(was he ever? lol). A kage that crys on the ground infront of another kage, is one that will be walked all over, leading to the slow steady destruction of his village. This is how it seems for me....

I just hope this chapter was ment as a punch in the face for Naruto to learn something along those lines.

[Shadowmoon~]

Of all the people who could possibly bring Naruto and Sakura together, who would have guessed it could be the socially-stunted Sai? XD

Not me! I was so shocked. It goes to show that we should never underestimate Sai's emotions, observations, and fanboying. GO SAI!

---

ARRGHH, WHAT WILL SAKURA SAY? WHAT WILL HAPPEN WHEN NARUTO AND SAKURA MEET AGAIN?

GO SMITER-KUN! The suspense is killing all of us here in H&E! :teehee:

---

[Freakazoid]

Blinktopia's version is up, reading it now.

[Kyuudaime]

Or it's only killing a few people here.
I'm with Cloud, that's all I have to say.

[Paptala]

Wow, interesting chapter. I'm going to first talk about the Narusaku moment. I don't know about anyone else, but I think the shot of Naruto gazing after Sakura was really symbolic of how Naruto himself felt his chances were of getting Sakura. He personally thinks that there's a huge chasm between them and the main reason why is because of Sasuke and his promise to bring him back. It also shows that Naruto's will to let Sakura walk away from him if that's what will make her happy. I think that's setting up the situation where Sakura has to be the one to bridge that chasm Naruto's build up. She needs to be the one to come to him (like how we saw when she came up and hugged him). It's going to be interesting to see what Sai will say to her. Is he going to spell things out in the Sai kind of way and tell Sakura that she needs to take that extra step? I've always thought that Naruto and Sakura wouldn't get together until Sakura had made it clear to Naruto she chose him and not Sasuke. If Sai and Sakura find a way to make it to where Naruto is, that may prove to be a potential catylst for Sakura to demonstrate this to Naruto. We'll see.

Perfectly described! I couldn't have said it any better myself! This was probably one of the most meaningful panels in part 2. I love how Naruto and Sakura's relationship has always been more about actions than words.

I really hope to see Binktopias translation soon, because I'm wondering if Sai really used the word 'like', as opposed to love.

On to the argument over Naruto's conversation with the Raikage. I personally think Naruto's weepy begging actually got to the Raikage. In that last panel when he turns over his shoulder to look at Naruto, that said to me that Naruto may have struck something in the Raikage that he hasn't admitted yet. Also, don't forget that the Raikage can be a deeply emotional guy. He did cry when his brother KillaBee was taken by Akatsuki. I think the Raikage may understand a bit where Naruto's coming from in terms of begging for the life of someone you consider a brother, even if he may be a complete a*hole (referring to Sasuke).

I see what you mean about the Raikage. I was wondering what was up with that, him turning to look back at the last minute. Perhaps there's something that Kishi left out that we'll be shown in flashback?

It will be interesting to see what the next chapter will be like. I'm wondering if Naruto's going to crash the meeting of the kages. Afterall, if Naruto wants to change the way shinobi's currently run as his father thinks he needs to, what better way to do that than to put his case in front of the 5 Kages. I know that some people may argue that having Naruto beg and grovel doesn't seem becoming of him, but this is what makes him different. I'm not going to judge about whether that's the best way or not yet. I think we're going to have to see what the results yield first before we can say. I mean, we've seen him fight tooth and nail to get Sasuke back at the Valley of End and we know how that turned out. Perhaps the passive route may be the best route right now.

Very true. He's not going to get the same results doing the same thing over and over. I don't exactly like how he handled the situation, but I'm going to hold off until I see where this has gone. If nothing else, I'm going to love to see their faces when Naruto shows them what he's got. Sasuke's there, and if Naruto runs into him, a fight is a pretty good possibility.

[Sakura Blossoms]

I really hope to see Binktopias translation soon, because I'm wondering if Sai really used the word 'like', as opposed to love.

If anyone has the link can they post it up soon, thanks

[Freakazoid]

Blinktopia 457

Seems to be basically the same, guess sleepyfans did pretty well this time around.

[jworks]

i think, like many are saying, that Sai won't talk about narusaku directly but more about Sasuke and Sakura's feelings towards him and Naruto's failure to keep the promise. though i think it will have a similar effect.

yeah Naruto's desperate begging surprised me, but i guess that just further demonstrates Naruto coming to the end of his best efforts. what i mean is, Naruto has been working towards Sasuke so long it has been wearing on him and it gets tougher as every last one of his attempts fail. Though I am confident that when he sees how his begging has failed, he will put himself into real action like he always has. Also, i can see why some say his begging was so ridiculous, seeing as how Naruto even acknowledged that Sasuke was changed to such a dark place, so I am not sure what he plans to do if he were to 'rescue' Sasuke. He probably doesn't know either, he just knows how important Sasuke is to Sakura and what a friend he was.

anyway, (waiting for next chapter)