363 replies to this topic

[Yyubie]

It's amaze me how people still think Sakura truly love Sasuke ....

[Kagomaru]

It's amaze me how people still think Sakura truly love Sasuke ....

I'm more amazed that people think that Naruto loves Hinata and is happy with her.  Y'know, despite the fact that he never smiles when around her, is rarely seen with her(let alone talking with her) *or* his children,  has become a deadbeat father who'd rather sleep on the couch and get himself drunk on a consistent basis then sleep in bed with his wife, all but ignores his son and seems to favor doting and teaching his rival and lost love's child over his own.

 

Naruto right now makes Goku and Vegeta look like the Fathers/Husbands of the Century. And frankly, to depict Naruto and Hinata's home life in this light is almost like SP's confession of guilt.  They knew what a marriage between Hinata and Naruto would entail: sterile, passionless and dysfunctional.  But they did it anyway because Naruto is their proxy to live out their fantasies with Hinata as their docile, complicit, big-boobed sex doll.

Edited by Kagomaru, 16 July 2017 - 11:57 PM.

[ThroughWithLove]

The Bench scene in chapter 3 does -not- work for several reasons to revisit.

 

1: It would be something that would need to be revisited sooner. The reason why the forehead poke works is it is shown recently enough, that its impact can be easily recalled, its symbolism understood, I.E., it's used within the same war time period, within the last couple hundred chapters.

 

Yeah, I reject this argument completely and absolutely. When it comes to symbolism, the forehead kiss blows the headpoke out of the water for four reasons:

 

1) Sakura's stated insecurity about having a large forehead and Naruto being the only one that thought it made her look cute.

 

2) Dan kissing Tsunade's head relatively recently during the war arc in a similar fashion.

 

3) The Kushina parallel of her being insecure about her red hair, but Minato thinking it makes her look cute.

 

4) Any time the author can tie together scenes/events that happen all of the way at the beginning of the story, it makes rereading the series from start to finish a lot more fulfilling and makes the story look more consistent and cohesive overall.

 

2: The Bench Scene isn't very memorable, nor a symbol. It's this one moment where Naruto uses deception to earn a kiss. It's not a good NS moment to lean upon.

 

 

Disagree about it not being very memorable. Thousands of posts and topics on this very forum would suggest otherwise. It's the one scene we've discussed more than any other and the very basis for NS. And it's a great moment to tie back to because Naruto has come full circle, is mature, has learned from his mistakes. It'd be the epitome of his growth as a character. He screwed up the first time with his deception and now doing things the right way.

 

 

3: The Bench scene's words aren't why Sakura fell in love with Sasuke. Here, Sakura's feelings are easily summed up as a school girl crush. They evolve and form onwards in the journey.

 

 

We have no idea why Sakura fell in love with Sasuke. We have no idea why it ever went anything beyond a silly crush. This isn't me saying this. Kakashi himself says this when he tells Sasuke that love does not need a reason. All I'm doing is using the main problem with her character arc to fix it. In this hypothetical, Kishimoto can even pat himself on the back, lie and insist that this was his plan along and the reason he never bothered delving too much into Sakura's thought process.

 

Sakura's Arc -does- extend past the first timeskip. 699 is -different- from every prior Sakura and Sasuke moment, because it is a romantic moment, the sole time. It's basically Sakura asking to be with Sasuke, and Sasuke saying that can be visited upon his return, I.E., when he returns at the end of the Sakura Novel. Essentially, now that there is no obstacles, and Sakura is older, she can broach this topic, and she's shy, because it's romance, and she's nervous. There's no regression. It makes sense. Amusingly, just about every female and many of the males is shown nervous when this was broached for the canon pairings in the blank period novels/anime adaptions/movie.

 

 

Any observation you make about Sakura's arc as of the first timeskip, I can easily go back and demonstrate how she has already progressed this stage as of the pre-timeskip era. And I mean any observation. The only thing that exist in part 2 is potential.  I haven't read the Sakura novel nor do I have any intention of reading it, so I can't comment there.

 

 

The Fake Confession isn't highlighted in such a manner to make that recognition work. Here, we would be entering what we call "retcon". This is why I would propose it being re-written, or an acknowledgement that this is what Sakura thought then, but as the journey progressed, her thoughts would change.

 

 

I disagree. Sakura is shown to be visibly angry with Naruto during the Fake Confession when Naruto calls her a liar. The grounds for her anger are never explored or touched upon. I merely provide an answer for her anger while also touching upon other events that would allow us to infer that Sakura has romantic feelings for Naruto deep down.

 

Naruto didn't understand Hinata's confession, which is why he "ignored it". I find it interesting that most people visit this and put in some sort of visible rejection. I also don't agree that she's often placed in this stance of fixing the clan, where her sister Hanabi is the next appointed clan leader.

 

 

Observation after-the-fact. Based on the original 700 chapters alone, there is no way to reach the inference that Naruto "didn't understand" Hinata's confession, much less any notion that the most empathetic character in the series doesn't understand love or thinks of "love" like "loving Ramen." Using our good friend occam's razor, the most likely explanation is that 1) Naruto was already in love with Sakura, 2) Naruto didn't know how to respond to Hinata's confession without hurting her feelings.

 

As to her fixing clan, I don't understand your problem with this. With or without ending up with Naruto, it is healthy character progression nonetheless to reach a stage where she can "walk beyond him."

 

 

The Big Deal, as you are saying that people don't have to end up with their first love, which is true, is that the progression in the manga established up to the end, was pointing to NH and SS. That is supported by the ending, which has these two things. So if you are creating an ending, you have to change things so the arrows point to the new ending, and it's not as simple as presented. The best way to do this is an overhaul.

 

 

And as someone who has said that the pairings in this manga were trivial, why would you have an issue with where you perceived their progression was by the end of the manga?

 

But I digress. To me, it's not about the pairings, but the characters. And in my hypothetical, I have created resolutions that do no damage to Naruto (someone who has been in love with Sakura throughout most of the series), Sakura (someone whose love for Sasuke has never been delved into beyond face value, whose arc does not require that she end up with Sasuke and can easily be written to be in love with Naruto with clever use of chapter 3), Sasuke (someone who is borderline asexual, thus doesn't give a hoot about romance!) or Hinata (someone whose character who would actually benefit were she able to muster the strength to eclipse and surpass Naruto). So no, I don't really see the overhaul. Especially when you consider that I was able to do everything purely by relying on what is already in the manga.

 

Hinata doesn't have that many problems, she's actually one of Kishimoto's better characters, ignoring my cultural complaint, she is underutilized but well executed.

 

 

I think she has the the potential to be one of his better characters (if not his best). But that's what this manga is to me: Untapped Potential.

 

 

I explained it somewhere earlier, but "A girl can't just change her feelings", isn't limited to girls, and is about truly loving someone, when even if the relationship dies, or doesn't work, you still love them, painful or bitter as it may be. This is very true in real life.

 

 

Massively disagree. People change. Especially while growing up. That is what Sakura's arc ought've amounted to. Growing up. And what better way to illustrate the process of adulthood than having her go from being insecure and having the hots for the cool guy to maturely realizing that Naruto is one for her.

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 17 July 2017 - 12:09 AM.

[ThroughWithLove]

Yeah I'm also not a big fan of the whole, "girls can't change their feelings, yet guys can" thing that seemed to happen a little at the end. Still not a fan of the rivalry being the reason for his love thing too but it's canon. Idk I just don't like overall how they played narutos feelings as not true feelings yet he actually had in manga reasons to love sakura.

 

It seemed to me that the writers were terrified to death of any notion that Hinata would be perceived as a silver medal, so they rewrote Naruto's characteristics and a couple of scenes in the manga in an effort to assure themselves otherwise. But yeah, the rivalry thing makes zero sense in light Sai's comments and the databooks.

[rocci]

Chapter 3 can work because :
It show that all sakura desire is in naruto beside sasuke Bishonen apperance. Naruto is the prince of her dream and not sasuke.
Oh and it show that naruto want and understand sakura.

It doesn't make any sense that naruto doesn't know that Hinata love because she already did a confession. It just bad excuse.

[rocci]

 
It seemed to me that the writers were terrified to death of any notion that Hinata would be perceived as a silver medal, so they rewrote Naruto's characteristics and a couple of scenes in the manga in an effort to assure themselves otherwise. But yeah, the rivalry thing makes zero sense in light Sai's comments and the databooks.

Because Hinata is popular and they can't make her look bad so they need to ignore the entire manga and make sure that sakura is not naruto first love thus removing the silver medal argument/notion.

[VanitasDS76491]

I'm more amazed that people think that Naruto loves Hinata and is happy with her.  Y'know, despite the fact that he never smiles when around her, is rarely seen with her(let alone talking with her) *or* his children,  has become a deadbeat father who'd rather sleep on the couch and get himself drunk on a consistent basis then sleep in bed with his wife, all but ignores his son and seems to favor doting and teaching his rival and lost love's child over his own.
 
Naruto right now makes Goku and Vegeta look like the Fathers/Husbands of the Century. And frankly, to depict Naruto and Hinata's home life in this light is almost like SP's confession of guilt.  They knew what a marriage between Hinata and Naruto would entail: sterile, passionless and dysfunctional.  But they did it anyway because Naruto is their proxy to live out their fantasies with Hinata as their docile, complicit, big-boobed sex doll.

Vegeta is a better father from his death in the buu saga to super. Dude faced Beerus a guy he embrassed himself for and freaked out when Beerus hit his bulma, and a better moment is him refusing training from whis to be with bulma who was pregnant at the time.

[ultranx]

 

 

I agree that Sakura does love Sasuke and that her love does need resolution in some way. However, I would submit to you that if the author is willing to allow a movie devoted to wrapping up all of the pairing issues, this can readily be done in a fashion that makes sense and that results in NS. But before we get into that, I'd like to note that our concern here is coming with a way of resolving Sakura's arc that makes sense, doesn't disregard anything throughout the past 698 chapters (aside from editing some of the dialogue in 693) and syncs perfectly with series' themes.

 

 

 

The problem with the 699 scene (and SS in general, as presented in the manga) is that it makes it to where Sakura doesn't really have an arc that extends beyond the first timeskip. Yes, you've explained that she's gone from a crush on Sasuke to have a selfless desire to save him, but even if I am to grant that (and I don't, since Kakashi more or less destroys any and all character progression by saying Love doesn't need a reason!), all that would mean is that her arc ended in part 1 when she begs Sasuke not to leave and assures Naruto that they will both save Sasuke. When we look to the entirety of part 2, it's all (or rather, as of the Kage Summit Arc), it's all 'cry cry cry, Sasuke I love you and I want to save you, cry cry cry, etc etc." She gets some big moments that created the potential for something else (i.e. trying to kill Sasuke), but in the end, it doesn't amount to anything and there's no real sense of character progression in sight. You could bring up her training with Tsunade as well as well as that time she did well against Sasori (arguably Sakura's shining moment in the entire manga), but in the end, it amounts to nothing and the girl still has to watch Naruto and Sasuke's back, insecure about her self-worth. 

 

As to symbolism . . . we'll get to that in a moment.

 

 

 

I won't call any fic horrible without actually reading it first, but I do agree with the sentiment that you can't just up and flip some dialogue around to make an NS resolution make sense in the context of the Last. 

 

Here is how you make NS happen (1) despite the fake confession and (2) chapter 615 as well as simultaneously fix and (3) resolve Sakura's character arc all in one fell swoop: Three words: The Bench Scene. One single moment in chapter 3 can be used to fix everything. By taking the biggest weakness with Sakura's character (never explained reason for loving Sasuke), she can be written to have gone from having a crush on Sasuke to falling deeply in love with him as a result of Naruto foolishly pretending to be Sasuke, saying the words she had yearned to hear as well as nearly kissing her. All these years, she thought it was Sasuke who did all of that and was determined to be with him no matter what due to what she saw in Sasuke's eyes all those years ago. That's why she romantically loves Sasuke, according to our little rewrite here anyway! 

 

Bada bing, bada boom, after some drama, action and self-reflection, Naruto goes for broke and takes a second crack at what he did in chapter 3, only without the henge jutsu this time. This is perfect for the character as it brings things full circle, highlights his growth as a character by placing in the same situation he was at the start of his journey, only does things the right way this time. Following a simple "That was you" from Sakura, we get this:

 

 

 

Now THAT'S symbolism.

 

 

 

 

So is this: 

 

 

 

Around the time this happens, everything else comes into fold. 

 

Fake Confession: Sakura finally realizes why she was getting angry with Naruto about him accusing her of lying to herself. Because deep down, she was speaking the truth when she confessed. She just didn't realize it at the time. She also recalls what Yamato said to her on the Tenchi Bridge that one time, realizing that part of her has known the truth all along. At long last, Sakura is able to realize what love truly is. And though she will always think fondly Sasuke and remain endeared that he saved from his own inner darkness, Naruto is the one she loves and her heart is finally at ease after all of these years.

 

 

 

 

Chapter 615: Hinata loves Naruto. This is indisputable. But she also loves him enough to the point that she wants him to be happy first and foremost (which is arguably the way Naruto felt about Sakura throughout the manga). And so when Naruto reaches his lowest point in our version of the film, it is Hinata who is there to comfort Naruto as well as to tell him to get back on his feet and to be the ninja she admires the most and not give up on Sakura. Naruto then gives Hinata a tender embrace, thanks her for always supporting him, apologizes to her for never having had the courage to approach her after her confession and tries to comfort her with a "In a different life . . ." line, but Hinata sends him on his way. We then get a scene of a jealous Kiba approaching a tearful Hinata, possibly hinting at something in the future. Nonetheless, Hinata's arc is complete and, still retaining her love and admiration for Naruto, is now able to move forward without him and stand on her own two feet (which is what she needs if she's going to finally fix the problems with the Hyugga clan), arguably having surpassed the strength she saw in Naruto. At the beginning, she could walk behind him. At the end of the manga, she was able to walk alongside him. And in this film, she is finally able to walk ahead of him. Perfect conclusion for her arc, IMO.

 

 

Themes: The next generation is always stronger than the previous and this is the especially the case for Naruto, who has succeeded his master in every area he failed:

 

 

 

 

Sasuke: His character is complete as of chapter 698. The only role he'd serve in the film is assisting Naruto both in combat and indirectly helping to wake Sakura up to her true feelings. This dude, however, doesn't care about romance. At very best, he could have at a scene at the end where he smiles at his former teammates from afar before leaving the village and reluctantly being followed by a persistent Karin. If anything were to happen between them, it'd be in a sequel.

 

Summary: I disagree with your conclusion. To get an NS ending, you simply have to bring up stuff that happened prior to the last 250 chapters and tie it all together with what happened in the last 250 chapters. Chapter 3 basically allows us to get Sakura to come around no matter what and Sai's multiple comments about Naruto as well as Naruto's actions in chapter 3 and throughout the manga make it pretty easy for him to get on board. The only issue is dealing with Hinata and I'd say my conclusion for her character arc is a lot more admirable than what we got in the canon. And unlike with what we got in the canon, you wouldn't need a genjutsu scarf or newly made contradictory flashbacks. Don't need to rewrite the chuunin exam arcs (or any arc for that matter). 

 

 

No need to kill Hinata. Just need to be willing to confront the reality that people don't always get what they want. And in Hinata's case, I'd use that in a way that actually betters the character and gives her a more robust arc (which is honestly the way it should have been done for Naruto in The Last movie as opposed to that candy-pants "you only loved me due to your rivalry" nonsense).

 

No need to kill Sasuke either. Honestly, I don't understand why the prospect of not ending up with the first person you like is something people have so much trouble with when Naruto himself did not get the person he liked in the actual canon. There, the solution was not to kill Sakura, so what's the deal?

HOLY CRAP THIS IS AS GOOD AS MY OTHER COMMENT, AGREED 9000%, NARUTO AND SAKURA TOGETHER ARE

HEAVEN AND EARTH, TRUE LOVE.

 

Yyubie, POINTING OUT YOUR EPIC SIGNATURE:

WELL after discord and chrome finally stop being frozen idiotic butts, posted this.

AND THIS IS FROM DATA BOOK 3 I THINK?

THE OFFICIAL CHARACTER DATA BOOK?

http://naruto.wikia....wiki/Sha_no_Sho

HOLY CRAP, EVERY SINGLE COMMENT OF THIS PAGE IS A GEM. 

Edited by ultranx, 17 July 2017 - 03:41 AM.

[rocci]

So sasuke see sakura as sister because that's what forehead poke mean between sasuke and itachi.

For the second paragraph, you just use a subjective opinion of fandom to determine whatever or not chapter 3 is not important? And then you said that nh happen because she's not popular?

[ultranx]

The Bench Scene then works less as much as the head poke, because the Head poke is both at Sakura's forehead, and this gesture of love Sasuke understands. It would work better if the Forehead was still a source of insecurity, but it isn't, in fact, that's more weaven with Ino and that conclusion then anything else.

 

The Scene is memorable for some here, for whatever reason, yes, but its not something memorable in general for the fandom. It's not a great shining NS moment as its played out to be, IMO, but feel free to believe otherwise here.

 

We don't know the full reason why, or when Sakura fell in love with Sasuke, but we know she did. We do know why she had a crush though, and we can infer some details. I'm not sure if stating it blatantly is necessary, though that can be debated.

 

Part 1 does not deal with to what extent is Sakura willing to save the man she loves. In Part 2, we see that Sakura is willing to kill Sasuke if that is what it takes to save him. We also see in part 2 that Sakura feels guilty for asking Naruto to take on the promise to get Sasuke in part one. These things have developed on from part one. Further, we also see Sakura push herself to be on par (Or close at least) To Naruto and Sasuke, which she talks about, as she doesn't want to be at their backs, as she always feels she is.

 

So no, Part 2 Sakura did not have no growth.

 

Naruto not understanding Hinata's feelings is clear after the fact, but its certainly an observation during the fact. Another popular theory at the time was they were in war, and it wasn't the time. "Not Hurting Hinata's feelings" doesn't work, because you see Naruto's feelings develop to form the baseline for a future romance in the last hundred chapters. It's evident in 615, as Naruto is the one reaching for her hand (I.E. Naruto being active, not Hinata).

 

And I'm talking about in regards to the clan thing, why do fanfic writers put her in this position to fix the clan, where she hasn't shown any desire to lead the clan, where Hanabi is doing. I think it is understood that the animosity between the branches won't really continue, personally. Sure, it could have been done more with, no one would have complained if it was.

 

No, Sakura's feelings for Sasuke are most certainly not at face value. Pairings are trivial, but you still can't necessarily do whatever you want when you have progressed things to build up to a direction. I can't build an eifel tower, and then at the last minute, declare I am making a tower of Pisa, with 90% of it complete, only topping the last 10% with a tower of pisa style. It would look ridiculous. That is the same thing with an ending: Building up 95% of it towards a particular end, then diverting it with the last 5%. It has nothing to do with triviality, and more with keeping flow/build up intact.

 

Hinata's words were never about surpassing Naruto, but walking side to side with him. Her next growth isn't moving, because Naruto's growth is gradually moving towards her too, thus setting up the Last.

 

Regardless, even with dissenting opinions to all of the above, ultimately Kishimoto chose to do what he did, and it worked.

 

Lastly, on your massively disagree with a girl can't change how she feels.

 

Here's the thing: When you really love someone, and regardless of what happens, marriage, or it doesn't work out...A small part is still there. You can move on and love someone else, absolutely. But you will always have a love for this other person, even if its not the same form or the same amount. It's very real, and I'd argue objective, and this is what Sakura is talking about, which people misunderstand, or misconstrue to something else entirely. Maybe it could have been worded better for these people, though I  notice those who have accurately guessed and predicted where things would flow also understood this meaning accurately.

 

 

 

 

This is one of those statements that holds no foundation or merit. It's baseless, and shouldn't even be used.

http://www.narusaku....247#entry943181

 

 

CASE CLOSED.

 

"No, what I mean is the post ending naruto is real naruto. It's canon even if it is bad."

 

YUP, ITS THE REAL NARUTO GIVING UP ON SAKURA, HIS TRUE LOVE. XD

BUT WE DON'T UNDERSTAND LOVE RIGHT? XD

 

MIND BLOWN?

 

 

Heaven And Earth, Naruto And Sakura, Naruto x Sakura, NaruSaku, NaruXSaku, narusaku.com,

IRONY RIGHT? XD

WHY IS ONLY ASH AND MISTY AS A COUPLE CALLED POKESHIPPING, NO OTHER PAIRING?

 

I love this website xD         

Edited by ultranx, 17 July 2017 - 08:11 AM.

[ultranx]

I'm going to conclude the debate of giving up on Sakura here with some final thoughts, then leave it at that:

 

At what point do you stop? When Sakura is married? When she more or less asks to be with a different guy? To save someone and not give up in the face of evil and obstacles is heroic. Nothing wrong with persistence in love, but there's a growth and altruism in letting someone go. Notably, attaining Sakura benefits only Naruto individually. Being persistent on saving Sasuke more or less aids the world against those he would harm. Being persistent against Obito saves the world. This is an argument that "Not giving up", does not and should not be weighted in a romantic field. 

 

Naruto never stated that his goal was to win Sakura's heart. This was a fan leap. 

 

It's notable that Naruto isn't the only one who has a not giving up attitude. Lee has similiar, and Hinata as well adopted Naruto's nindo. Does giving up on their pursuits. Naruto "giving up" is bad, but having these two "giving up" is growth, is often what I see. The truth is, if any of these three abandoned X for whatever reason, it has nothing to do with giving up in the terms of what a hero's creed would mean in being persistent, as such a nindo points to personal growth and enduring the bad to bring out good. 

https://plus.google....500116336010146

I opened my heart, lived and learned, was free, never gave up, never turned back, lived life, believed in endless possibilities, felt the sonic boom, will do what I feel is right, will fight for justice. I am one of the SONIC YOUTH!!! xD I go with the flow of life. I go where life takes me. and move like the wind.

thank you so much. sadly I don't remember her name and she moved away years ago, I still live in the same house with my parents, used to be my grandma's xD

been living here since 1995, the house is falling apart and we can't afford to fix it. my grandma died in I think 2006 while I was in high school, my uncle bruce(who was a scifi/tech geek along with my dad, and who got me into video games in the first place by giving me his extra nes, nintendo entertainment system, was really close to him) died in 2001, while I was in middle school and was bullied. the kids would kick me in the legs under the desk in class, and other things too, teachers never did anything about it, eventually dropped of middle school and was homeschooled by mom til I went to high school. school sucks.

came home crying with bruises on my legs in middle school. high school didn't get much better. kid hit me in the head with the metal chair I was sitting in because he wanted to use the computer even though I was doing school work on it, while a substitute teacher was there. was always the shy kid in school, never talked to anyone to stay out of trouble. met my best friend in high school though. still talk to him on skype and discord and hang out when not busy. school felt like a prison to me. I think only the popular kids remember school fondly.

to be honest, the reason I haven't got in a relationship is because, well, my mom and dad used to be hardly home all the time, now my mom is disabled because of her old job, and my dad, a former military vet, who is a tech genius, knows how a computer works to the component lvl, is worked to death all the time by his bosses, at an oxygen company, so I only work parttime at my job, so that I can be home with my family. I don't want work to be more important than everything else. and I'm wary of being in a relationship because of the whole situation, and because I feel they would judge me for my hobbies, like playing video games, watching anime, reading manga, reading fanfics online, collecting figures and physical copies of my games.

 

 

this is all me analyzer, and I relate to naruto/kishimoto and feel he gave up, and kishimoto thought of sakura like a daughter, so naruto was his child, and all forms of love matter, so tell me analyzer, did he give up? did he give up on his true love, on a form of love? yes, he did. but I don't matter right? even though I'm an individual? is my voice heard now?

 

the reason I like dragon ball? I now know the answer: I relate to akira toriyama, he never gave up, he gave his story a end, but decided to continue it, and further the journey towards his ending, because the journey in life is what's most important. so I will never give up too.

as naruto would say: "THAT'S MY NINDO, MY NINJA WAY."

 

 

 

 

guys? 'SMIRK' TRY WATCHING BOTH VIDEOS AT THE SAME TIME. OR RATHER, WATCHING ONE WHILE LISTENING TO BOTH? THE 2 VIDEOS ABOVE I MEAN.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udgOhSB2Jw0&list=PLcAuTaaooopIhVcFnKNSwIjgcWJJ_Tqt4&index=1

 

 

Edited by ultranx, 17 July 2017 - 02:14 PM.

[ultranx]

YOU CAN DO ANYTHING:

 

okay yeah, definitely gotta bingewatch this show:

Edited by ultranx, 17 July 2017 - 02:32 PM.

[ultranx]

 

Naruto did not pursue "True Love" in the manga. There is objectively no romance. Just chronic build up for what is used in the Last. That is it. He cannot give up on something if he did not pursue it, and he never truly pursued it.

true, but who's to say true love isn't worth pursuing? this site is called heaven and earth after all, narusaku, naruto and sakura?

there are endless possibilities after all right?

BREAK THE LIMIT, FEEL THE SONIC BOOM

Edited by ultranx, 17 July 2017 - 03:21 PM.

[ultranx]

Well, did pursue it later with Hinata. It's more of a matter that Kishinoto wasn't interested in doing romance.

true, whereas in a way, toriyama was, and never gave up?

NO LIMITER, ONE PUNCH MAN?

 

GOTTA PUT YOUR MIND TO IT, KISHIMOTO DIDN'T PUT HIS MIND TO ROMANCE.

"THE POWER'S IN YOUR MIND TO SHAKE THE PLANETS AND  CONQUER TIME."

Edited by ultranx, 17 July 2017 - 03:34 PM.

[ultranx]

 

 

narusaku strong enough, part 1  out of 4

 

ALL BONDS ARE IMPORTANT, ALL FORMS OF LOVE ARE IMPORTANT, EVERYTHING MATTERS.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKoIiEx7DgA

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swhx4_SjLhs

Holy crap, GOD TALKED TO ME THROUGH BARDOCK FROM XENOVERSE 2!!!

NO WONDER I enjoyed the skill riot javelin!!!!!

Bardock: EVERYTHING!!! me: Matters!!!!!!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liZgSHlaiIM

true happiness, awesome, bible, the first book ever written, god

 

jesus? yup

 

never forget

 

 

closer english lyrics joe inoue  naruto shippuden opening 4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AqllKAzJCA

 

break the limit, no limits, limit break x survivor, I will survive

break the limit, no limits, limit break x survivor, I will survive

 

never forget what makes you happy

 

do what's right, what you feel is right, fight for justice, evil never wins, good always triumphs.

 

this hand of mine is burning red, fire, the will of fire

 

@Ultranx Before you talk about the story or things that happening in the last , i think we should start from the basic logic , the law of physic. How the F can they go to the moon and breathe in space ?? like I said, they literally ripped that from paper mario the thousand year door, near the end of the game you use a cannon and blast paper mario to the moon, and he's walking on the moon without oxygen all willy nilly. all to save princess peach. sound familiar? xD they used a non plot based kids game to come up with this crap xD this is literally a badly done disney movie done by a bad writer xD naruto officially got so bad they resorted to the "mario save the princess" type of storytelling xD they're using marioxpeach stuff to justify nh xD

 

 

 

rofl, lmao

 

 

 

the last naruto the movie

 

our logic is sound

 

narusaku, naruto x sakura, naruto and sakura, ns true believers thread, beliefs, true love, IRONY

 

OMG, WE ALL SAID COOKIE MONSTER OBVIOUS AT THE SAME TIME!!!!

 

 

 

RED COOKIES(edited)

Edited by ultranx, 17 July 2017 - 11:53 PM.

[ThroughWithLove]

The Bench Scene then works less as much as the head poke, because the Head poke is both at Sakura's forehead, and this gesture of love Sasuke understands. It would work better if the Forehead was still a source of insecurity, but it isn't, in fact, that's more weaven with Ino and that conclusion then anything else.

 

There is no indication that the forehead is no longer a source of insecurity for Sakura and the fact that it has been acknowledged as a source is what makes Naruto kissing it all the more prominent. Here, it would be a clear romantic gesture and something that ties back to what Sakura specifically wanted, per the third chapter. In the case of "poking" her forehead, it is simply a brotherly gesture Itachi would give Sasuke; there is nothing inherently romantic about it. It just doesn't have the same connotations the forehead kiss has.

 

Add these three others point I raised . . .

 

2) Dan kissing Tsunade's head relatively recently during the war arc in a similar fashion.

 

3) The Kushina parallel of her being insecure about her red hair, but Minato thinking it makes her look cute.

 

4) Any time the author can tie together scenes/events that happen all of the way at the beginning of the story, it makes rereading the series from start to finish a lot more fulfilling and makes the story look more consistent and cohesive overall.

 

And forehead kiss > forehead poke is clear as day.

 

 

 

The Scene is memorable for some here, for whatever reason, yes, but its not something memorable in general for the fandom. It's not a great shining NS moment as its played out to be, IMO, but feel free to believe otherwise here.

 

You're welcome to disagree about it being memorable, but the cold hard fact remains is that use of this scene in the way I described ties things together perfectly, which is what Kishi tries to do in chapter 700 with Boruto committing the same pranks Naruto had committed in chapter 1. It's a good literary technique and you've said nothing to dispute this.

 

 

We don't know the full reason why, or when Sakura fell in love with Sasuke, but we know she did. We do know why she had a crush though, and we can infer some details. I'm not sure if stating it blatantly is necessary, though that can be debated.

 

 

We know nothing beyond face value. Because we don't know or understand the basis for Sakura's love, it'd be easy for a writer to do what I've done and use whatever animus there was in Sakura's love to reach the conclusion that Naruto's foolishness inadvertently resulted in her loving the wrong person the entire time. We're told Sakura fell in love with Sakura, but if it were to turn out that she truly fell in love with him due to thinking that the henged Naruto was really Sasuke, then making NS happen is pretty simple and straightforward.

 

Part 1 does not deal with to what extent is Sakura willing to save the man she loves. In Part 2, we see that Sakura is willing to kill Sasuke if that is what it takes to save him. We also see in part 2 that Sakura feels guilty for asking Naruto to take on the promise to get Sasuke in part one. These things have developed on from part one. Further, we also see Sakura push herself to be on par (Or close at least) To Naruto and Sasuke, which she talks about, as she doesn't want to be at their backs, as she always feels she is.

 

 

I preempted these examples in a previous reply.

 

The whole "kill Sasuke" bit never amounted to anything as she didn't go forward with it (meaning she was NOT willing to kill Sasuke). It had potential to amount to something, but it didn't. It unfortunately ended up being used a cheap shock value and nothing more.

 

Sakura ALREADY felt guilty about asking Naruto to save Sasuke, as we can see from her reaction to his injuries after the VoTe fight in part one as well as her insisting that she and Naruto would save Sasuke TOGETHER (something the author ended up forgetting about).

 

Sakura ALREADY had a "I won't watch their backs anymore" moment during the Chuunin exams. The version you see in the war arc is a shallow rehash of what had already happened AND amounts to nothing as we see from various scenes afterwards such as Sasuke more or less calling Sakura (and Kakashi) useless and Sakura having a pity-party about it

 

So really, as of part one, Sakura is a complete character. Sad but true. The only thing she had going for her in part two was potential.

 

Naruto not understanding Hinata's feelings is clear after the fact, but its certainly an observation during the fact. Another popular theory at the time was they were in war, and it wasn't the time. "Not Hurting Hinata's feelings" doesn't work, because you see Naruto's feelings develop to form the baseline for a future romance in the last hundred chapters. It's evident in 615, as Naruto is the one reaching for her hand (I.E. Naruto being active, not Hinata).

 

 

 

If you have any proof that Naruto was incapable of understanding love prior to this explanation being presented in The Last, feel free to present it.

 

What exactly does "the baseline for a future romance" mean? If that's a run-around means of describing "friendship", then you haven't actually given us a reason on why "Not Hurting Hinata's feelings doesn't work." You can be close friends with somebody and still not want to hurt their feelings by turning down a romantic relationship with them. Happens all the time in real life to proclaimed "nice guys."

 

 

 

And I'm talking about in regards to the clan thing, why do fanfic writers put her in this position to fix the clan, where she hasn't shown any desire to lead the clan, where Hanabi is doing. I think it is understood that the animosity between the branches won't really continue, personally. Sure, it could have been done more with, no one would have complained if it was.

 

 

Because it's a good sign of independence and ability to move beyond Naruto. Perhaps the ultimate expression of "give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime." She no longer needs Naruto's fish; she can get them on her own and can do more than she ever could just by watching Naruto from afar.

 

 

No, Sakura's feelings for Sasuke are most certainly not at face value. Pairings are trivial, but you still can't necessarily do whatever you want when you have progressed things to build up to a direction. I can't build an eifel tower, and then at the last minute, declare I am making a tower of Pisa, with 90% of it complete, only topping the last 10% with a tower of pisa style. It would look ridiculous. That is the same thing with an ending: Building up 95% of it towards a particular end, then diverting it with the last 5%. It has nothing to do with triviality, and more with keeping flow/build up intact.

 

 

Pairings are trivial, so by your reasoning, whoever ends up with who is not the crux of the story and its character. It is the development. You haven't articulated a single reason as to why my hypothetical film does anything to harm the actual development of these characters.

 

Naruto: There isn't a single scene in the first 699 chapters where he is shown to have any romantic inclinations towards Hinata. You've hung your hat on chapter 615, but even by your own words, all that amounted to was a "baseline" for a potential future romance. In other words, nothing that compares to the character outright being said to be in love with Sakura. At no point are his feelings for Sakura abandoned are put to rest in the first 699 chapters of the manga.

 

Sakura: Everything regarding her feelings for Sasuke is provided at face value. So much the point where the author lampshades this by telling us that "love doesn't need a reason." We have no idea why Sakura loves Sasuke, making it easy for NS to happen with clever use of chapter 3. As shown above, Sakura's arc was complete by part one, so an NS resolution is actually doing her character a tremendous favor.

 

Hinata: The entire reason she fell in love with Naruto was because of his convictions and nindou. It was his convictions and nindou that allowed her to become strong to walk besides him.  My proposal concludes her arc by taking her to next step and making her able to not just walk besides Naruto, but beyond him . . . to the point that she no longer needs him for strength.

 

Sasuke: Not an ounce of his character has ever hinged on any romance, so he's fine no matter who ends up with who.

 

So no, I offer nothing besides natural and logical character progression. 

 

On another note, this "it changes the direction of the manga" argument is also faulty on the basis of the boatload of NS parallels we had been getting even during the final arc. It's so bad to the point that Kishi didn't come out and say "Look, NH and SS were obvious for the past 300 chapters", but rather "I deliberately kept throwing in NS moments to keep readers guessing!"

 

 

Hinata's words were never about surpassing Naruto, but walking side to side with him. Her next growth isn't moving, because Naruto's growth is gradually moving towards her too, thus setting up the Last.

 

 

Her words were about getting stronger as a result of what she saw in Naruto. That is why she fell in love with him. I've merely given her arc symmetry by creating a third and final stage. A point at which she loves Naruto enough to set him free. A point at which she is strong enough to set him free. And a point at which she is ready to move forward and beyond. 

 

 

Lastly, on your massively disagree with a girl can't change how she feels.

 

Here's the thing: When you really love someone, and regardless of what happens, marriage, or it doesn't work out...A small part is still there. You can move on and love someone else, absolutely. But you will always have a love for this other person, even if its not the same form or the same amount. It's very real, and I'd argue objective, and this is what Sakura is talking about, which people misunderstand, or misconstrue to something else entirely. Maybe it could have been worded better for these people, though I  notice those who have accurately guessed and predicted where things would flow also understood this meaning accurately.

 

Given that all I'm proposing is that Sakura's love be a result of mistaken identity, the notion that a girl cannot change how she feels isn't really dispositive to our conversation. If it's a sudden " thought I feel in love with Sasuke, but it was really you all along", then her "giving up on Sasuke" wouldn't be at issue as she never would have technically fallen in love with Sasuke in the first place. If anything, she has given up on her shallow crush from her academy days, her immature thoughts about Naruto and her immature thoughts about life in general. Perfectly good way to do an arc for a character like Sakura.

[ultranx]

 

There is no indication that the forehead is no longer a source of insecurity for Sakura and the fact that it has been acknowledged as a source is what makes Naruto kissing it all the more prominent. Here, it would be a clear romantic gesture and something that ties back to what Sakura specifically wanted, per the third chapter. In the case of "poking" her forehead, it is simply a brotherly gesture Itachi would give Sasuke; there is nothing inherently romantic about it. It just doesn't have the same connotations the forehead kiss has.

 

Add these three others point I raised . . .

 

2) Dan kissing Tsunade's head relatively recently during the war arc in a similar fashion.

 

3) The Kushina parallel of her being insecure about her red hair, but Minato thinking it makes her look cute.

 

4) Any time the author can tie together scenes/events that happen all of the way at the beginning of the story, it makes rereading the series from start to finish a lot more fulfilling and makes the story look more consistent and cohesive overall.

 

And forehead kiss > forehead poke is clear as day.

 

 

 

You're welcome to disagree about it being memorable, but the cold hard fact remains is that use of this scene in the way I described ties things together perfectly, which is what Kishi tries to do in chapter 700 with Boruto committing the same pranks Naruto had committed in chapter 1. It's a good literary technique and you've said nothing to dispute this.

We know nothing beyond face value. Because we don't know or understand the basis for Sakura's love, it'd be easy for a writer to do what I've done and use whatever animus there was in Sakura's love to reach the conclusion that Naruto's foolishness inadvertently resulted in her loving the wrong person the entire time. We're told Sakura fell in love with Sakura, but if it were to turn out that she truly fell in love with him due to thinking that the henged Naruto was really Sasuke, then making NS happen is pretty simple and straightforward.

 

 

I preempted these examples in a previous reply.

 

The whole "kill Sasuke" bit never amounted to anything as she didn't go forward with it (meaning she was NOT willing to kill Sasuke). It had potential to amount to something, but it didn't. It unfortunately ended up being used a cheap shock value and nothing more.

 

Sakura ALREADY felt guilty about asking Naruto to save Sasuke, as we can see from her reaction to his injuries after the VoTe fight in part one as well as her insisting that she and Naruto would save Sasuke TOGETHER (something the author ended up forgetting about).

 

Sakura ALREADY had a "I won't watch their backs anymore" moment during the Chuunin exams. The version you see in the war arc is a shallow rehash of what had already happened AND amounts to nothing as we see from various scenes afterwards such as Sasuke more or less calling Sakura (and Kakashi) useless and Sakura having a pity-party about it

 

So really, as of part one, Sakura is a complete character. Sad but true. The only thing she had going for her in part two was potential.

 

If you have any proof that Naruto was incapable of understanding love prior to this explanation being presented in The Last, feel free to present it.

 

What exactly does "the baseline for a future romance" mean? If that's a run-around means of describing "friendship", then you haven't actually given us a reason on why "Not Hurting Hinata's feelings doesn't work." You can be close friends with somebody and still not want to hurt their feelings by turning down a romantic relationship with them. Happens all the time in real life to proclaimed "nice guys."

 

 

 

Because it's a good sign of independence and ability to move beyond Naruto. Perhaps the ultimate expression of "give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime." She no longer needs Naruto's fish; she can get them on her own and can do more than she ever could just by watching Naruto from afar.

 

 

Pairings are trivial, so by your reasoning, whoever ends up with who is not the crux of the story and its character. It is the development. You haven't articulated a single reason as to why my hypothetical film does anything to harm the actual development of these characters.

 

Naruto: There isn't a single scene in the first 699 chapters where he is shown to have any romantic inclinations towards Hinata. You've hung your hat on chapter 615, but even by your own words, all that amounted to was a "baseline" for a potential future romance. In other words, nothing that compares to the character outright being said to be in love with Sakura. At no point are his feelings for Sakura abandoned are put to rest in the first 699 chapters of the manga.

 

Sakura: Everything regarding her feelings for Sasuke is provided at face value. So much the point where the author lampshades this by telling us that "love doesn't need a reason." We have no idea why Sakura loves Sasuke, making it easy for NS to happen with clever use of chapter 3. As shown above, Sakura's arc was complete by part one, so an NS resolution is actually doing her character a tremendous favor.

 

Hinata: The entire reason she fell in love with Naruto was because of his convictions and nindou. It was his convictions and nindou that allowed her to become strong to walk besides him.  My proposal concludes her arc by taking her to next step and making her able to not just walk besides Naruto, but beyond him . . . to the point that she no longer needs him for strength.

 

Sasuke: Not an ounce of his character has ever hinged on any romance, so he's fine no matter who ends up with who.

 

So no, I offer nothing besides natural and logical character progression. 

 

On another note, this "it changes the direction of the manga" argument is also faulty on the basis of the boatload of NS parallels we had been getting even during the final arc. It's so bad to the point that Kishi didn't come out and say "Look, NH and SS were obvious for the past 300 chapters", but rather "I deliberately kept throwing in NS moments to keep readers guessing!"

 

 

Her words were about getting stronger as a result of what she saw in Naruto. That is why she fell in love with him. I've merely given her arc symmetry by creating a third and final stage. A point at which she loves Naruto enough to set him free. A point at which she is strong enough to set him free. And a point at which she is ready to move forward and beyond. 

 

 

Given that all I'm proposing is that Sakura's love be a result of mistaken identity, the notion that a girl cannot change how she feels isn't really dispositive to our conversation. If it's a sudden " thought I feel in love with Sasuke, but it was really you all along", then her "giving up on Sasuke" wouldn't be at issue as she never would have technically fallen in love with Sasuke in the first place. If anything, she has given up on her shallow crush from her academy days, her immature thoughts about Naruto and her immature thoughts about life in general. Perfectly good way to do an arc for a character like Sakura.

OVER 9000 LIKES TO THIS COMMENT!!! NO LIMIT ON THE LIKES IT DESERVES!!!

 

I broke my limits,I used the full power super saiyan blue mod in xenoverse 2 and the instant  charge skill mod and was invincible, and NO ONE DIED(edited)

broke my limit, 60 frames per second

don't assume your dreams are just fantasy, if you can imagine a world, believe in it...and dive in.

youtube.com - Sword Art Online - Crossing Field (1st Opening) [English Cover Song] - NateWantsToBattle

YouTube

Nathan Sharp - NateWantsToBattle

Sword Art Online - Crossing Field (1st Opening) [English Cover Song] - NateWantsToBattle

 

 

YouTube

StormRedDesert

Sonic & Shadow: Live and Learn [With Lyrics]

https://www.youtube....h?v=elm8jAW6y-o

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AotUfGHuiBM

YouTube

MAKAVELI*MOTIVATION

KEEP MOVING FORWARD - Hardcore Gym Motivation

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkRcgbNr7SQ

YouTube

Overtaken Productions

MOVING FORWARD BY HEZEKIAH WALKER - LYRIC VIDEO

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkwMJ6I8tek

YouTube

ANIME LYRICS

No Game No Life op [[This Game]] ~「English and Romaji Lyrics」

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkwMJ6I8tek

YouTube

ANIME LYRICS

No Game No Life op [[This Game]] ~「English and Romaji Lyrics」

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkRcgbNr7SQ

YouTube

Overtaken Productions

MOVING FORWARD BY HEZEKIAH WALKER - LYRIC VIDEO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxo3i45wC5M

YouTube

BrawlBRSTMs3 X

Title Screen - The Legend of Zelda: Tri Force Heroes Music Extended

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B08HBdjLzIc

YouTube

Blackenfist

Decoding The Dragon Ball GT Ending

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxo3i45wC5M

YouTube

BrawlBRSTMs3 X

Title Screen - The Legend of Zelda: Tri Force Heroes Music Extended

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B08HBdjLzIc

YouTube

Blackenfist

Decoding The Dragon Ball GT Ending

Edited by ultranx, 18 July 2017 - 02:42 AM.

[ultranx]

YouTube

sherrifjam917

Awake and Alive-Skillet

 

 

this is awesome xD

YouTube

christal9900

Skillet- Hero (lyrics)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfGQfQwlFlM  Here are the Lyrics of this amazing japanese song :

 

 

Translated:

 

I just feel the "Rhythm Emotion"

The beat of my heart

reaches out to you, so far away

 

It's OK if I get hurt.

I want to live passionately and intensely

without turning my eyes away.

 

Because it was you who gave me the strength

to never give up, I want to embrace you.

 

I just feel the "Rhythm Emotion"

Mistakes and pain

lead us to a brilliant, momentary light.

I just feel the "Rhythm Emotion"

The beat of my heart

reaches out to you, so far away

 

Yeah... Lithely accepting the moment

with my bare skin,

I want to find more "gentleness!"

 

Take back the miracle of your youth,

when everything shined.

 

I just feel the "Rhythm Emotion"

I believe in the kindness

of feeling and understanding each other's heartbreak.

I just feel the "Rhythm Emotion"

With this kiss, I want to [3]

show a definite passion to you, so far away...

 

I just feel the "Rhythm Emotion"

Mistakes and pain

lead us to a brilliant, momentary light.

I just feel the "Rhythm Emotion"

The beat of my heart

reaches out to you, so far away

YouTube

BrandonLeeXD1

Gundam Wing - Rhythm Emotion w/ Lyrics

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57nmmjZ1xsY

YouTube

astraycat

V for Victory

 

- The wonderful theme song of Gundam Wing ^^ Lyrics are shown below - in English!!! *I didn't do the translation myself, so don't blame me for a wrong translation... -

I have the song in mp3; if you want it, I prefer trading another song. I also have 'White Reflection', 'Battle Theme', 'Who Burns Away', 'With Only My Words' and 'Rhytm Emotion'. 

 

 

JUST WILD BEAT COMMUNICATION

While being pounded by rain 

I want to let you know the unfading hot feelings in side me 

TONIGHT!

 

I held your damp shoulders to warm you

Your fingers tremble--what are they seeking?

In broken speech, tell me why you want this pain

You no longer seem so grown up, as your pretenses fa de

I want to protect this image of you--

Believe that love will change sadness to strength

 

* JUST WILD BEAT COMMUNICATION

Don't be afraid of anything

Because noone's going to take away the shared feelings of now, our youth

JUST WILD BEAT COMMUNICATION

While being pounded by rain

I want to let you know the unfading hot feelings inside me

TONIGHT!

 

Until the far away dawn, I want to spend the night nestled close to you

We can lose everything else, as long as we don't lose gentleness

From words, through kisses, we feel each other's heartbeats

Drawing passion near, for an instant, for eternity...

Painfully, violently, I want to focus on this

In this tearful situation, only you are precious

 

JUST WILD BEAT COMMUNICATION

Don't surrender anything

Because, if we both understand each other, we'll be able to fight as one

JUST WILD BEAT COMMUNICATION

Don't let go of love

This overflowing, hot face will tell you its deepest secrets

TONIGHT! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV5XU4vIu5E

YouTube

RenaNifa

Just Communication - Mobile Suit Gundam Wing (with lyrics)

 

 

Edited by ultranx, 18 July 2017 - 04:52 AM.

[ultranx]

No offense, but it's bad conduct to post off-topic things.

I know, but we all have our flaws right? we have to acknowledge them and learn from them? LIVE AND LEARN? 

 

orange? afk? away from keyboard? fitting eh matthew? xD

SEE WHAT WE CAN DO WHEN WE NEVER GIVE UP? NO LIMITS? ONE PUNCH MAN? DRAGON BALL XENOVERSE 2 FOR NINTENDO SWITCH?

 

crazy, I did all that playing dragon ball xenoverse 2 xD the original xenoverse 2 lols

omg try turning the music off on xenoverse 2 and playing this song on loop

YouTube

Spaghedward1

G Gundam-Burning Finger Theme

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsYdLeeHiu0

YouTube

DashKof 99

Theme of ONE PUNCH MAN ~Seigi Shikkou~ (Extended)

 

or this one

with mods, fanmade and official, omg xD

we're not humans or gods, we're men(edited)

evil never wins

evil = stupidity, take out the negativity?

 

I think god is talking through me xD

Edited by ultranx, 18 July 2017 - 06:00 AM.

[catsi563]

What should have been said at the end of the story