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Therece

Member Since 16 May 2014
Offline Last Active Today, 07:48 PM

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In Topic: Did NaruSaku only have a chance because Sasuke was away?

10 May 2024 - 03:10 AM

 

I do wish so much that we got the same level of love and care for NaruSaku especially in the later half of Part 2 without Masashi throwing a bone to get the fandoms to wag their tails... like "OMG could it be? Could it be?"  and I'm just like thinking.... as an aspiring writer..... this is not how to win over your readers when it comes to developing romance between two characters.  I know the argument a lot of people make is "Well Naruto isn't a romance therefore it's fine we didn't get a lot of focus..."  that has always been such a poor excuse I've heard time and time again.

 

If you as the writer already know from the conception of your story that this couple is going to be canon then just focus on developing that pairing as you are telling the story you've created. 

That is definitely the #1 thing Masashi didn't understand when it came to Naruto. 

 

 Around 70% of the fandom was focused on power levels and the plot. Meanwhile, pairing fans were constantly discussing their parallels, pairings, getting embroiled in shipping wars and mocking rival fans on Tumblr, blowing things out of proportion.

 

For example, I've even encountered many NaruSaku Shippers who believe Naruto failed completely as a character because he 'lost' Sakura and moved on.     :twitch:

 

Maybe if these fans had dedicated themselves more to the actual manga plot instead of talking about ship wars and pairings all the time, the shock and rage wouldn't have been so great for the losing side. Inevitably, in a love triangle dragged out for so long, some part of the fandom will feel like losers, whether they were SS, NH, or NS fans.

 

 

Anyway, this isn't exclusive to Kishimoto or Naruto manga. Ichigo and Rukia fans were outraged that Ichigo ended up with Orihime. Even today, there are shipping wars in the Avatar fandom, with Zutara and KataAang fans insulting each other and Zutara fans refusing to accept the canon.

In Topic: Did NaruSaku only have a chance because Sasuke was away?

10 May 2024 - 02:40 AM

you ss fans would gladly push a button to change the series to "sasuke" instead of "naruto" if it existed  :lmao:

 

Whether it's NS, SS, or NH, it doesn't matter. Naruto is not a shoujo manga. It's a shonen manga with a primary focus on fights, villains and plot. The pairings were just secondary plots that shipping fans gave too much importance due to the drama Kishimoto created and pairings wars inside the Fandom.

 

But whether you like it or not, Sasuke is the second main character of the manga. More than half of the manga and its arcs revolve around him and the Uchiha clan. He was Sakura's first love and the one she ended up with. He was also the main link that brought Sakura and Naruto together in Part 2 and the central theme of their interactions.
 
That's why I created this topic to discuss what a Part 2 for Sakura and Naruto would be like with Sasuke  in the village and without any major drama surrounding him like in Part 1. 
 

 

 well nagato always deep down wanted to do the right thing these feelings you claim are "repressed" are not visible at any time which is the problem there... gaara had a terrible upbringing it isn't unlikely he could find a new path. zabuza raised haku it isn't a stretch to find out he cared about him after haku sacrificed his life to save his. and itachi's motivations were properly explained it wasn't a 180 degree change of character but rather a secret that the higher ups in the leaf village and itachi kept from sasuke and the readers/viewers it's not comparable to some sort of "repressed feelings" 

 

 

Sasuke also had a tragic past marked by the Uchiha clan massacre. Additionally, characters like Itachi, Madara, and Orochimaru constantly manipulated him, trying to sway him down the wrong path. These events played a crucial role in Sasuke's departure from Team 7, the ensuing drama and his descent into "darkness" of Part 2.
 
The issue is that you want a Sasuke who pines for Sakura or openly asks her out on dates like Naruto. He's a character with a completely opposite personality. That will never happen.  However, in Part 1, it was clear that Sasuke cared about Sakura deeply, even to the point of being willing to die to save her. This was before the drama with the Uchihas unfolded and he left the village. Additionally, she had a level of influence over him, as seen when she helped break the cursed seal with her hug.
 
Even if less important characters could change after Naruto TnJ , it was naive to believe that Sasuke would never return, find a new purpose, or acknowledge Sakura in the end.  "SasuSaku" was never dead until Sakura moved on from Sasuke. Sasuke had already demonstrated his capacity for a complete turnaround without any Naruto TnJ. His decision to abandon his plan to destroy the village and instead fight in the war to protect it as clear evidence of this.
 
 

 

kakashi in this case did not have any feelings for rin so why would sasuke? logically the only real reason sasuke and sakura ended up with one another is likely because of the ship's popularity.  

 

 

If he didn't like it, Kishimoto had the pen and the authority to avoid making them official and stopping emphasizing Sakura's feelings altogether. The idea that Kishimoto was forced to do anything by the shipping fandom or editors is absurd. As the creator and owner of the franchise, he had complete creative control over everything in his manga, including secondary plots pairings. Especially at the end of the manga when Kishimoto was doing whatever he wanted. Or did some editor forced Kishimoto to make Kaguya?   Madara was much more popular than her . 

  

Sasuke ultimately accepted Sakura's feelings, while Rin ended up dead by Kakashi's hand, leaving Kakashi filled with guilt and resentment.  Kakashi could have easily dismissed Sakura's love as childish and foolissh and emphasized Naruto's loves for Sakura at this moment like he did with Rin. But he never did. Furthermore, Kakashi defended Sakura's feelings for Sasuke when she confessed for the second time, arguing that Sasuke was wrong to reject them.

 

While there are parallels between Team 7 and other characters, fundamental differences prevent them from being mere clones.  Sasuke, Naruto and Sakura  has their own unique identities. Additionally, there's no Hinata's equivalent in the other teams and neither Kushina and Minato have any ""Sasuke"" in their life.

 

Theoretically, Sakura surpassed Rin. She didn't die and won the love of her teammate. Naruto surpassed Obito. He didn't become a simp obsessed with a girl for his entire life and achieved his dream of becoming Hokage.

 

Sakura surpassed Tsunade. She didn't lose any loved ones and managed to save Sasuke and Naruto, unlike Tsunade who lost Dan and Nawaki. Naruto surpassed Jiraiya. He managed to save his friend and became Hokage.

 

It was never stated that the only important aspect of the parallels was Naruto simply winning Sakura's love. It's not like Naruto gives this the same importance to that as he does to Sasuke or his dream of becoming Hokage. He never said:  "How I can become Hokage without Sakura-Chan as my wife?"  But he did say he couldn't be Hokage without Sasuke back.

 

The POAL, which was once was  requirement for Naruto to confess his feelings to Sakura, was simply disregarded when Sakura "confessed". Instead, Naruto declared his unwavering resolve to save Sasuke, regardless of Sakura's approval.

 

 

if the confession was the end of narusaku why have kushina and sakura be a parallel later? why have naruto tell his father sakura was his girlfriend?

 

 

The same logic can be applied to both SS and NH. Why did Kishimoto make Hinata confess her love for Naruto and kill Neji if he didn't have plans for NH? Why did Kishimoto make Sakura admitts that she still loved  Sasuke in chapter 540, have her declare her love so many times throughout the series?

 

The Last began it's production in 2012. So, by then, Kishimoto had already decided the main couples.  Probably, he just threw the Kushina/Sakura  to keep the NaruSaku fandom interested in the manga until the end, prolonging the dramas or pairing wars between SS/NH/NS until the last chapter. 

 

Not that I agree with this stupid logic of deceiving a portion of the manga readers. But he himself admitted to using it as a form of trolling and red herrings in a interview later.

 

 

he liked doing that he clearly opposed nh in the kage summit arc he stated "sakura is the heroine not hinata"

 

I've always disagreed with this  argument that Sakura's role as a main female hinges on her ending up with Naruto.

Sakura's prominence throughout the manga and her significance as Team 7's member solidify her place as a main female of the franchise, regardless of whether she ended up alone or married to any random character.

 

Sakura remained far more important than Hinata until the final chapter of the manga written by Kishimoto.

I cannot recall Hinata having any significant role in the war aside from holding Naruto's hand and constantly mentioning his name like a robot.

  • It was Sakura who unraveled White Zetsu's plan. 
  • Sakura received the Byakugou and healed the entire Ninja Alliance, surpassing Tsunade. 
  • Sakura saved Naruto while Hinata tripped over a rock. 
  • Sakura saved Sasuke and played a crucial role against Kaguya while Hinata remained trapped alongside the other secondary characters. 
  • Sakura received her character conclusion in the final volume and chapter of the manga. 
  • Sakura had a Gaiden dedicated to her daughter in the manga and later saved Sasuke, Naruto, and Sarada from a powerfull enemy.
  • To this day, Sakura receives far more novels, merchandise, and official events than Hinata.

 

At most, Hinata was the heroine of The Last. In the Boruto manga in trash anyway and her presence is practically nonexisten

If popularity were a criterion for defining the manga's heroine, Sakura crushed Hinata in the last popularity poll. Hinata did not become the heroine nor did she become more popular for ending up as Naruto's housewife.

In Topic: Did NaruSaku only have a chance because Sasuke was away?

09 May 2024 - 05:09 AM



yes he did that was part of growth  but he NEVER showed any form of actual affection or direct return of her feelings throughout this remained consistent to the point where at the end he had to practically spell it out for everyone that NO I HAVE NO FEELINGS FOR HER

 

 

One thing I learned after 700 chapters of Naruto and 6 years following the manga  It's that there's one thing Kishimoto loves more than trolling and drama. Those are plot twists, no matter how surprising or poorly done, especially after a Talk no Jutsu from Naruto. A discerning reader will readily identify the recurring pattern.

 

Zabuza saying he didn't care about Haku and he didn't mean nothing to him, but after a Talk no Jutsu, he went on to love him. 

 

Gaara, hated by the village and killing everyone, then became the Kazekage after a Talk no Jutsu. 

 

Nagato reviving the entire village after Naruto's TnJ.

 

Itachi, a psychopath who killed the clan in front of his brother and tortured him to the limits of insanity, becomes a martyr and a loving brother after his death.

 

Kishimoto wouldn't throw in a second declaration of love for Sakura in the last volume of the manga for nothing. Everyone, including NaruSaku fans, should be aware of the possibility of Sasuke's 180-degree shift in relation to Sakura and the potential for repressed feelings to be shown after his fight against Naruto and Naruto's Talk no Jutsu.

 



 

This of course followed the garbage ending we got which i personally consider non canon given how bad it was everything past the manga titled the TRUE ending as it was called

 

While i wont dispute the possibility as anything can happen the story to that point does not support such a conclusion beyond a what if, No where does he accept her feelings 

 

I  consider only the Boruto manga non canon because it wasn't written, illustrated and even  Kishimoto's supervision hasn't been confirmed yet.

 
Regardless of the theory – whether Kishimoto always had everything planned out or if he changed his mind due to some editorial influence – the fact remains that he written and illustrated everything in the original Naruto manga.    Therefore, everything written in those chapters should be taken into account.

 



She does question him as the moment happens right at the bench where it happend she asks in a round about way sadly the writing wasnt on point for this but Sasuke clearly states I have no memory of this which refutes her entire claim at the moment of the special moment they shared

 

 

Sasuke was lying. The fact that he called her "annoying" again was clearly a callback to the first time, showing that he remembered and Sakura got the reference.

 

 

...

 



 

this sadly is bad writing and a plot hole left over from the eventual editorial interference the event shouldve been bought up as it is one of the pivotal moments in the ""relationship"" and i use the word loosely that had occurred. yet its never bought up again BECAUSE it would torpedo things on the spot. Wait you didnt compliment and want to kiss my forehead

 

 

 

 

Sakura never thought about or had any flashbacks about this scene.

If the fact that the fake Sasuke complimented her forehead was so important for Sakura

 

Kishimoto should at least have shown a flashback to this scene at some point during 700 + 10 chapters  to demonstrate how iconic this moment was for Sakura. However, this never happened.

 

 



 

 

Disagree they were allready moving closer together as multiple interactions showed during the wave arc chunin exams and sand invasion the fond look she gave naruto a smile by the way she never showed to ANYONE but for him alone is more than ample evidence of the relationship growing

 

 

Just as NaruSaku became stronger than SasuSaku in Part 2 due to Sasuke's absence and his descent into "darkness" by trying to kill her and destroy the Village.

 

SasuSaku was stronger than NaruSaku in Part 1  Sakura openly loved Sasuke and always wanted to be near him. Additionally, Sasuke wasn't a jerk and considered Sakura important enough to protect or even sacrifice his life and revenge goal for her. But this is just opinion and I will not delve deeper into this theme.

 

 


 



 

 

yes eventually she would it would take time but would happen as Naruto always needed a bit of a kickstart in some ways

 

Sasuke the confessions were the same spontaneous confessions of any love sick crush and dismissed as cleanly as they were

 

for Sakura and Naruto its a larger deeper narrative one that would end with not so much a spontaneous confession as a mutual one where both just talk to each other and remember all that they shared

 

 

The issue is that none of Sakura's confessions to Sasuke have been classified as false or a simple blind infatuation. She wasn't forced or influenced by anyone neither.

 

In the first one, Sasuke himself thanked her. Naruto recognized that her love was real, and that's why he did the POAL when he saw how much she was suffering.  If it were a simple blind infatuation, there would be no reason for the POAL to exist in first place.

 

In the second one, when Sasuke said that he had no reason to love her, Kakashi scolded him, saying how true Sakura's love was and she still wanted to save him even after everything. This led Sasuke to do a complete 180-degree turn towards Sakura after the fight against Naruto

 

Sakura's confession to Naruto was influenced by the circumstances surrounding Sasuke and Sai blaming her for the POAL.

 

...

 

Sai himself admits:

 

 

...

 

 

I really doubt that Sakura would even consider making a love declaration to Naruto if Sai hadn't interfered.

Much less  in a Part 2 scenario with Sasuke in the village, without committing crimes and Sai blamming her for the POAL. Second point Naruto basically admitted that Sakura didn't love him, and she was lying to herself.

 

...

 

 

Naruto placed his goal to save Sasuke above both the POAL and Sakura, ultimately undoing the POAL.

 

 

 

...

 

 

Sakura later simply confirms her love for Sasuke during the war in her first scene. 

Despite the fact that many NaruSaku fans don't accept it, the NaruSaku ship may have truly sunk in this chapter.

Afterward, at most, there are only arguments based on parallels and hopes that Sakura will move on from Sasuke, or that Sasuke won't return to the village or ever be redeemed.

 

 

In Topic: Did NaruSaku only have a chance because Sasuke was away?

08 May 2024 - 05:47 AM

Yes there was a solid chance because the development was there 

 

it was slower and steady but present. Sasukes presence sans all the drama wouldnt have changed Narutos actions really nor the fact that he did not have feelings for Sakura. 

 

the issue is that the premise is based on SS being strong in part 1 well that fact is that isnt true because its missing one key element 

 

namely a VERY large

 

Sasuke was not present in the relationship as any form of equal partner and it was all in Sakura lap and one wall cannot build a house 

 

the entire relationship was one sided where as in NS it was growing visually before our eyes and we could witness its progression

 

A Sasuke; sans all the drama,wouldnt really have a motivation to change anything as Sakura would be one of a collection of fangirls who dont know him and do nothing but fawn all over him. And Sakura would not distinguish herself from this by any stretch of the imagination until late in part 

 

It's true that Sasuke didn't give a damn about any fangirl, like Ino.

The conviviality on Team 7 played a key role in making Sakura stand out.

Eventually, Sasuke came to consider her an dear person to him and want to protect her.

 

...

 

...

 

Meanwhile, Sasuke made it clear Naruto became his best friend. Sakura's importance to him, however, remained open-ended. Was she just another best friend?

 

 

I'm not saying Sasuke will ask her out. never.

But it's possible that eventually, he will come to accept her feelings, if she were to grow even more in importance to him.

 

 

Just like he had no problem accepting her romantically at the end of the manga when he stoped to being obcessed about revange and let his past go...

 

 

 

 

 

Its possible that Sakuras change could have come without the Sasuke drama as Sakura herself was shown slow signs of growth which was mostly due to Naruto plus her rivalry with Ino but this would have taken time.

 

 

theres also the bench scene to consider where in if Sasuke stays Sakura eventually confronts Sasuke about it in some attempt at a love confession only to discover the truth that it was Naruto all along who complimented her forehead.   

 

this throws an entirely new monkey wrench in the works as suddenly Sakura has to question everything she thought she knew

 

 

 

I don't think this is relevant. Sakura had several opportunities to ask about this moment, but never brought it up to Sasuke throughout Part 1.

 

When Sasuke left and she tried to stop him, it was the perfect chance to question him about the Forehead scene. But she remembers the later moment when he called her annoying because of her comment about loneliness.

 

Sakura

 

 

 

When Sasuke returned, Sakura could have questioned him about this moment. But she preferred to ask if she could go with him. This led to the Forehead poke, which ironically, touched at the point of Sakura's insecurity.

 

And again, Sakura didn't relate or even remember the fake Sasuke complimenting her forehead at Chapter 3.

 

 

 

 

in Conclusion no i do not believe without a radical shift in Sasukes behavior and Sakuras for that matter that Sasukes presence would change the dynamic between the NS pairing it would be slower and take longer but it would still happen as the development was progressing in that direction as a wise manifesto said a long slow walk.

 

 

 

I believe the NaruSaku relationship would develop much slower or almost become nonexistent in Part 2, just as it was in Part 1 and the post-manga period.

 

What brought Sakura and Naruto closer together was their mutual desire to bring Sasuke back, along with all the drama that surrounded him + POAL. With Sasuke present, this desire that united them and the POAL simply dissipates.

 

 

Of course, Sakura would continue to support Naruto and his dream of becoming Hokage, as she did during the Chūnin Exam.

However,  things would dramatically change for NaruSaku relationship in Part 2. For example:

  • Naruto would not have most of Sakura's attention in Part 2, as he would not be the only member of Team 7 close to her. Sasuke would be present too.
  • Sakura would not have doubts about her feelings and would not be sad with a Sasuke who hasn't committed crimes.

 

 

Another important question: Would Sakura ever spontaneously confess her feelings to Naruto without the pressure from Sai about the POAL, and Sasuke in the village?

 

Probably not, while she would probably confess her feelings to Sasuke at some point, as she did twice in the canon.

In Topic: Did NaruSaku only have a chance because Sasuke was away?

07 May 2024 - 05:18 AM

If SasuSaku happens in part 1 or early part 2, then yeah I can imagine NaruSaku wouldn't develop much of a bond. We can see their bond is non-existent post the ending and in Boruto as evidence for that.

Their connection and friendship for much of the series was on getting Sasuke back and as soon as Sasuke was back, they don't act much more than acquaintances. That's why I always thought the brother/sister arguments were weak arguments. I don't see one moment of them acting like best friends or brother/sister in Boruto.

Once you remove any notion of romance for Naruto and Sakura, then there is basically nothing left for their relationship for ikemoto or kishimoto to write about.

 

 

The majority of NaruSaku moments were directly influenced by Sasuke and POAL.

 

 

  • The POAL revolved around Sasuke as a central character.
  • Naruto's four-tailed transformation was triggered by Sasuke, causing guilt in Sakura because of the POAL.
  • During their hospital visit, Naruto once again brings up Sasuke, mentioning their shared goal of catching up to him. This inspires Sakura to help Naruto later by feeding him.
  • Naruto mentions POAL as a condition for confessing to Sakura.

  • Finally, Sakura's confession, fueled by Sai's words about the POAL and Sasuke's transformation, was an attempt to free Naruto from the POAL.

In her confession to Naruto, Sakura cites Sasuke's aloofness and unavailability as justifications, contrasting them with Naruto.

 

This paints her confession to Naruto as a consolation prize, offered not out of genuine love, but because of the circumstances surrounding Sasuke and Sai's guilt trip about the POAL. 

 

The only genuine NaruSaku moments without Sasuke's name in the picture are:When Sakura considers giving up on the Chunin Exam to protect Naruto's dream.  In a  similar context to the CPR scene in the war, where Sakura saves Naruto with his Hokage dream in mind.

 

If Sasuke had returned to the village after killing Itachi without discovering the truth about the village and joined the Akatsuki, Sakura might not have had any trouble forgiving him and jumping into his arms  more easily than at the end of the manga. 

 

But let's set aside scenarios where Sasuke reciprocates Sakura's feelings  or accepts her confession at the end of Part 1. Imagine a scenario where Sasuke simply remains on Team 7 throughout Part 2 treating Sakura in the same way as part 1. Essentially, Part 2 without the drama of saving Sasuke or his descent into Darkness.

 

Interestingly, in this scenario, Sai and Yamato were not even introduced to Team 7. They were created only due to Sasuke's absence or to replace him. Karin also doesn't exist.  Sakura is the only girl Sasuke even interacts with.  Would Naruto and Sakura's relationship develop in the same way with Sasuke closer to Sakura in the village during Part 2 and without any POAL, with Sakura feeling no guilt towards Naruto?