33 replies to this topic

[pharix]

Narutoget

ehehe --Click here to view--

there was plenty of "lingering" when he held Sakura

Edited by pharix, 09 June 2011 - 01:12 PM.

[crazyefra]

Thoughts --Click here to view--

Well, talk about "lingering" ... if it wasn't for Sasuke being the "main focus", it would have been far better if he asked her if she was alright. What was the purpose of turning Kakashi's "push" into a fist fight with Sasuke? I liked that Sakura got backtalked by Sasuke unlike in the manga. Seriously, why change what Kakashi says to Sakura in the manga to something that wants to give hope to SS fans and keep on destroying Sakura's character much worse than what Kishi did?

Edited by crazyefra, 09 June 2011 - 02:05 PM.

[Kobayashi]

My thoughts on the episode!!! --Click here to view--

Yeah there was lingering but it looked unnatural like naruto was so full of hidden sexual tension so he held her too long, that moment woulev been nice if they didnt screwed up the rest of the moments and make them look totally opposite from what author intended. Sakura was animed from bad angles not like in manga, we dont see her face, and she is not looking at naruto, she is looking at water full of sadness most of the time, that is not how it happened in manga. In manga she was fixated with naruto and in awe that he saved her, it was epic moment, now it has gone to mediocre level.

Another thing when sakura yelled at sasuke she rose up to her feet, but they didnt showed her angered face that she gave to sasuke (which was NS moment where it was shown how much sakura puts naruto before sasuke, and now she is defending naruto not like she used to do in old times for sasuke even when he wasnt right) and it didnt showed her face looking at naruto how only naruto still belives in sasuke and she no longer belives in him, that moment was also part that is showing that sakura is largely out of her so called love for sasuke. Again at the beggining it was shown sasuke going away part only to reinforce sakuras undying love for him and also in contrast to that it was shown how karin is not that persistent and that she doesnt have "deep love" that sakura has for sasuke when she said im over with you sasuke. That part was more emhasised in anime than in manga and it was shown in other light than the author intended.

Also part where kakashi said to sakura "youve come to terms with you fellings, right? Romantic notion, when in manga he said "and besides...youve seen that you cant handle this, non romantic notion that highlights sakuras teammate bond and her human side to that. Than she showes this crazy weep moment full of pain like her heart was broken again that wasnt there in the manga, like she is doing nothing else but crying all the time for sasuke. Sakura in manga came to terms how sasuke is evil and it came to her mind earlier after sai talked to her, when in anime she is struggling with those thoughts like she just find out how sasuke is this bad person.

I now understand how SS fans could come to a conclusion that sakura is in pain because she loves sasuke so much, when in reallity this episode was supposed to break that old sasuke picture and help her move on. I have respect for the anime team, OVA came from them, but it looks like they are deliberately downgrading these very vital moments of the manga only to keep all pairings alive not to give any pairing advantage, and sadly at the expense of NS, so that many people who only watch anime dont see that anything particulary important happened in this episode, only that sakuras love for sasuke is still strong,undying and enduring even if he tries to kill her.

That moment where she said sasuke kun tried to kill me, didnt help much, after whole distorted episode that line had low impact overall. Someone said in forum how the anime team gave us plenty of NS moments, and yes i agree with them but that was long ago when NS pairing was not as close strong like it is now so they gladly threw a bone to us NS fans, like oh poor NS fans they are so little bunch, lets pat them. But now that NS pairing is formidable and likely to happening that is beginning to give them headaches how to simplify NS moments so they dont look like ones.

All in all bad animation, poorly done, they couldev gave more thought to this important moments, heck they are giving to much thought when thinking how to animate fights of side characters more interestingly, than this that is important to whole story. If theyve just made the episode copy of manga, even that wouldev been much better and epic than this crap they did.

Edited by Kobayashi, 09 June 2011 - 02:24 PM.

[merryGOflava]

HECK YA! --Click here to view--

lingering~ for like a minute!!! SHANNARO!!

[Chew]

Damn it Talk no Jutsu...you made me cry :'( but yes...plenty of lingering AWESOME episode.

[pharix]

she also --Click here to view--

didn't seem to protest having him holding her for like 30 seconds

[Yuna]

thoughts --Click here to view--

Oh, wow. This ep. was pretty good, especially Naruro vs. Sasuke: loved all those slow/fade/sparks effects. And yes, the 'lingering' and that part where Sakura was defending Naruto's feelings was something!!

[Fliss]

KJDIWEHNCXJDA<3 --Click here to view--

Like all of you guys, the lingering made me fangasm <3 He held her for quite a while and took extra care to gently set her dooowwwn and then they looked into eachothers eyes for a moment Ahaha maybe I'm dramatizing it...oh well. I don't care. I actually liked this episode and the flashbacks didn't bother me as much. I could still definitely do without them, though. Sakura defending Naruto was awesome, I know she has her priorities straight now and this episode was to prove the transition. Although the manga chapter diiiiddd portray that a little better. Still, it didn't irritate me. I thought the animation was decent. Not amazing, not awful, but decent. The part where Naruto and Sasuke were conversing was actually kind of cool. The background was preeettty aha. Some of you guys were bothered by this episode but for me it was better than the past couple and it was kind of a breath of fresh air.
Can't wait for the next one~

Edited by Fliss, 09 June 2011 - 08:39 PM.

[Gravenimage]

Wow. --Click here to view--

Pierot has finally done a good episode I love how Naruto stood holding Sakura for like thirty seconds it was good. I'm beginning to think that studio Pierot is constantly fighting (the NS side and the NH S/S side). I give this episode a 8/10 it was very good.

[narutouzumaki50]

HE'LL YEAH ! --Click here to view--

This was a great episode! Is,it me alone or did u anyone notice that naruto was actually enjoying holding sakura in his arms.? I don't think he wanted to let her go:

[Strangelove]

reminder --Click here to view--

At how crazy Sasuke boy has become.

Edited by Strangelove, 09 June 2011 - 09:56 PM.

[ciardha]

My thoughts on the episode!!! --Click here to view--

Yeah there was lingering but it looked unnatural like naruto was so full of hidden sexual tension so he held her too long, that moment woulev been nice if they didnt screwed up the rest of the moments and make them look totally opposite from what author intended. Sakura was animed from bad angles not like in manga, we dont see her face, and she is not looking at naruto, she is looking at water full of sadness most of the time, that is not how it happened in manga. In manga she was fixated with naruto and in awe that he saved her, it was epic moment, now it has gone to mediocre level.

Another thing when sakura yelled at sasuke she rose up to her feet, but they didnt showed her angered face that she gave to sasuke (which was NS moment where it was shown how much sakura puts naruto before sasuke, and now she is defending naruto not like she used to do in old times for sasuke even when he wasnt right) and it didnt showed her face looking at naruto how only naruto still belives in sasuke and she no longer belives in him, that moment was also part that is showing that sakura is largely out of her so called love for sasuke. Again at the beggining it was shown sasuke going away part only to reinforce sakuras undying love for him and also in contrast to that it was shown how karin is not that persistent and that she doesnt have "deep love" that sakura has for sasuke when she said im over with you sasuke. That part was more emhasised in anime than in manga and it was shown in other light than the author intended.

Also part where kakashi said to sakura "youve come to terms with you fellings, right? Romantic notion, when in manga he said "and besides...youve seen that you cant handle this, non romantic notion that highlights sakuras teammate bond and her human side to that. Than she showes this crazy weep moment full of pain like her heart was broken again that wasnt there in the manga, like she is doing nothing else but crying all the time for sasuke. Sakura in manga came to terms how sasuke is evil and it came to her mind earlier after sai talked to her, when in anime she is struggling with those thoughts like she just find out how sasuke is this bad person.

I now understand how SS fans could come to a conclusion that sakura is in pain because she loves sasuke so much, when in reallity this episode was supposed to break that old sasuke picture and help her move on. I have respect for the anime team, OVA came from them, but it looks like they are deliberately downgrading these very vital moments of the manga only to keep all pairings alive not to give any pairing advantage, and sadly at the expense of NS, so that many people who only watch anime dont see that anything particulary important happened in this episode, only that sakuras love for sasuke is still strong,undying and enduring even if he tries to kill her.

That moment where she said sasuke kun tried to kill me, didnt help much, after whole distorted episode that line had low impact overall. Someone said in forum how the anime team gave us plenty of NS moments, and yes i agree with them but that was long ago when NS pairing was not as close strong like it is now so they gladly threw a bone to us NS fans, like oh poor NS fans they are so little bunch, lets pat them. But now that NS pairing is formidable and likely to happening that is beginning to give them headaches how to simplify NS moments so they dont look like ones.

All in all bad animation, poorly done, they couldev gave more thought to this important moments, heck they are giving to much thought when thinking how to animate fights of side characters more interestingly, than this that is important to whole story. If theyve just made the episode copy of manga, even that wouldev been much better and epic than this crap they did.

Agreeing with your assessment, way underplayed Sakura's showing her love for Naruto, instead having her look at Sasuke. and the ultimate stupid filler line they gave her "he was really going to kill me" Uh that made her look really freaking stupid and totally contradicted her knowledge of how bad he'd become. Sakura certainly knew Sasuke was capable of killing her, and sure as heck wouldn't have been surprised when he orders her to kill Karin. In manga canon Sakura hardly looks at Sasuke at all once Naruto shows up. The only time she looks at him is when she gets mad and yells at him for Naruto's sake, and they have those lines in there, but again underplay Sakura's connection to Naruto, because in manga canon at lines, "even now" her eyes go back and focus on Naruto. Yeah, they definitely altered it to make it look less narusaku and inserted filler garbage to make it slant toward sasusaku. Oh and they again underplayed sasukarin, in manga canon Karin's lines were less definiteive. But they've never liked sasukarin, dropping all the moments where Sasuke actually showed a bond to her (on the level of his with Naruto's). They want to keep pushing sasusaku no matter how it makes Sakura look, just because it's still (barely) more popular than narusaku in Japan. I dislike whenever the anime team distorts things way too obviously from manga canon. It looks especially bad since they even emphasized "psycho Sasuke" even more than Kishimoto did. Sasuke actually drops back to semi sane (for him in part 2) once he Naruto start talking.

Edited by ciardha, 09 June 2011 - 11:48 PM.

[Broken Figurine]

Agreeing with your assessment, way underplayed Sakura's showing her love for Naruto, instead having her look at Sasuke. and the ultimate stupid filler line they gave her "he was really going to kill me" Uh that made her look really freaking stupid and totally contradicted her knowledge of how bad he'd become. Sakura certainly knew Sasuke was capable of killing her, and sure as heck wouldn't have been surprised when he orders her to kill Karin. In manga canon Sakura hardly looks at Sasuke at all once Naruto shows up. The only time she looks at him is when she gets mad and yells at him for Naruto's sake, and they have those lines in there, but again underplay Sakura's connection to Naruto, because in manga canon at lines, "even now" her eyes go back and focus on Naruto. Yeah, they definitely altered it to make it look less narusaku and inserted filler garbage to make it slant toward sasusaku. Oh and they again underplayed sasukarin, in manga canon Karin's lines were less definiteive. But they've never liked sasukarin, dropping all the moments where Sasuke actually showed a bond to her (on the level of his with Naruto's). They want to keep pushing sasusaku no matter how it makes Sakura look, just because it's still (barely) more popular than narusaku in Japan. I dislike whenever the anime team distorts things way too obviously from manga canon. It looks especially bad since they even emphasized "psycho Sasuke" even more than Kishimoto did. Sasuke actually drops back to semi sane (for him in part 2) once he Naruto start talking.

What? On par with Naruto's? The bond the two had, growing up alone, fighting as rivals, comparable to a girl who loves him because he saved her from a bear? Sasuke treated Karin same way he treated Sakura part one, except under different circumstances. Karin and Sakura were both saved at points by Sasuke, both praised for their ability (no doubt for his own benefit) and shown concern for their safety. Now, they've both been betrayed as Sasuke has lost sight of that empathy he had, however much of it. If we're going to say Karin had a strong bond with him, then hey, maybe the SasuSaku ship and the anime are onto something here, because unlike her Sakura hasn't seen to "give up" on him, so to speak. Also, that aspect of Karin where she was able to let go of Sasuke had been my point of respect for her. Or are we to encourage her to follow after Sasuke, even after he tried to kill her? Karin's only flashback of why she 'loves' Sasuke doesn't nearly amount to the one's Sakura has throughout the course of the series. I don't like it when the anime leaves out scenes/distorts them either, but if they tried to show me that Karin is on level to Naruto's bond, I'd claim SasuKarin bias and call it distorted just the same.

I just wish they would stick to the manga, not add in their own spins all the time. Their symbolisms, their making characters do what they didn't do... It's too annoying. This was one of my favourite chapters in the manga so I'm really disappointed.

[Gravenimage]

You know I really wish Kishi will sell his rights to make an anime of his manga to another studio one that isn't bias and play favorites by the fandom.

[Super Boom]

My thoughts! --Click here to view--

I liked the episode. Sure, they added a lot of filler, but what else is new? Naruto holding Sakura for like five minutes of episode time (he was still holding her during the opening song in my mind, LOL), was pretty awesome. Though I guess it wasn't really more romantic than it was, just an extended version of what happened in the manga. If one of them was blushing, it'd be a different story. I did like Naruto's reaction when he stood up and goes "Sasukeeeee...Sakura-chan's a member of Squad 7 too." It almost sounded like a snarl, he really sounded angry to me. The seiyu did a great job with that line. I actually liked Sakura's "Sasuke tried to kill me. If it wasn't for Naruto I'd be dead now" reflection. The more times she reflects on Sasuke being evil and Naruto being great the better, at least IMO.

The only part I didn't like was Kakashi's line to Sakura: "You've come to terms with your feelings haven't you?" Seriously, so far only one person here's complained about that line. Am I misinterpreting it? I guess he could just mean that she can't kill him because she cares about him, but talking about 'feelings' and then seeing Sakura cry for the millionth time leaves a bad SasuSaku taste in my mouth. Then again, she screams Naruto's name right after that, so maybe I am misinterpreting it.

As for the SasuKarin thing, I guess I didn't really see it as too definitive. I mean she's ready to go down to heal Sasuke, then remembers him trying to kill her. I kind of felt like she was forcing herself to give up on Sasuke. Either way, that scene didn't really bother me too much.

[Grace]

Do I still need tags? Oh well, puttin' 'em anyways. --Click here to view--

[[Step-by-step commentary here, made as I watch and pause the episode.]]

Oh goodie, a rehash of the flashback. Because, y'know, I loved it when they played that entire thing the first time instead of just the bit where Sasuke says, "Thank you".

Aaand the Kakashi-punch to Sasuke was turned into a full-on fist fight, followed by sky-diving because....?

Meh, no real complaints from me about Sakura's added line about Sasuke "really trying to kill her"--that may not have been in this corresponding chapter at that moment, but it's a decent enough follow-up to Sasuke, well....trying to kill her. And she does mention that if it wasn't for Naruto being there, she'd have been dead; *shrug* no harm in it.

Oooh, I like Naruto's growly voice when he reprimands Sasuke; nice touch.

Mmm, not sure what to think about Sakura's standing up for Naruto. In the manga it was so immediate, making her being on Naruto's side as opposed to Sasuke's much more intense. Here...it seems kinda flimsy. She stands up, tells him off in what seems more like a scolding manner than a "shut your freaking face" manner, and doesn't glance to Naruto when she talks about he's the only one that still held hope for Sasuke. When she did so in the manga, it showed that she was acknowledging Naruto's faith and backing him up in the face of Sasuke's remark. In this episode, she instead looks down and seems to be reflecting on herself when she mentions Naruto's faith, which to me looks like she's thinking about how she hasn't done the same--basically, the episode seems to put more focus on her disappointment/regret at her lack of faith rather than her acknowledgement/support of Naruto's having faith.

Whoa. What's with the "I'll save you from vengeance" statement? That is nowhere in this chapter, and in fact goes against what is in it. This chapter/those that follow are about Naruto saying that he'll take Sasuke's vengeance and hatred on himself--to have him say that he'll save Sasuke from it, especially when keeping in mind that Naruto later says they'll die together once they fight, takes away the level-headed finality of Naruto's choice of action. It just....ugh, bugs me.

Um....Sasuke, somethin's wrong with your hand dude. Y'look like you've got Alien Hand Syndrome or something. (When saying he killed Danzo.)

Oh geez, now even Kakashi's having flashbacks? Really?

....what the hell animation team. "Come to terms with your feelings"? Sakura having a sad-face that's almost as bad as when she cried over realizing how much Naruto did for her out of love? Nononononononono. Bad team, very bad.

Aww, even though they resorted to a flashback, I really like Karin's "screw Sasuke" moment. At least her flashbacks flowed with her actions and emotions, and didn't last for more than 30 seconds or a minute.

Whoa, sudden jump in animation quality! Right around when Naruto asks if Kakashi's gonna kill Sasuke it gets much better.

GEEZ. Just when I was getting really impressed by the build-up of Naruto and Sasuke charging each other, they had to throw in a stupid filler flashback. That is just....absolutely one of the most disappointing things.

What the hell--what's with the ending? They just fade out on Naruto's line, no real solid end to the scene? God, they are getting lazy aren't they?

A rant within a review. --Click here to view--

THE FLASHBACKS HAVE GOT TO STOP. I can't take it anymore! Does the animation team really think we forgot everything they're showing us? That when Naruto says "if it wasn't for you and Iruka I'd have gone nuts too", that we really can't understand what he's saying or referring to without flashbacks to the first series? And to stupid filler?? It detracts from the flow of the current plot when they do it, and is an unbelievably cheap way to pad out an episode. When they do something quick like in Karin's moment, fine--that little flashback showed only the portion of the fight with Danzo that was relevant to Karin's feelings and Sasuke's actions. No more, no less. The replay of the flashback to Sakura's confession to Sasuke (for an example)? Unnecessary. For one, it was played in the last episode--in its entirety--instead of a few episodes back, like Karin's. Two, it's the very first part of the episode and thus could have been kept to just the "Thank you" (y'know, like in the manga?) to get us back up to speed.

I...could rant about this for hours, but I'll stop now.

[Nee-sama]

I think Kakashi's line is being misinterpreted. I really don't think they meant to change the context of that line from the manga, it was just translated a bit differently. In English, just a few words can seemingly change the meaning of two statements that really mean the same thing. Whereas, in Japanese their words seem a lot more vague and encompass a broad spectrum of ideas that can't be translated literally from English. By "coming to terms with her feelings" he is referring to her inability to kill Sasuke because of their teammate bonds regardless of how evil he has become.

[ciardha]

What? On par with Naruto's? The bond the two had, growing up alone, fighting as rivals, comparable to a girl who loves him because he saved her from a bear? Sasuke treated Karin same way he treated Sakura part one, except under different circumstances. Karin and Sakura were both saved at points by Sasuke, both praised for their ability (no doubt for his own benefit) and shown concern for their safety. Now, they've both been betrayed as Sasuke has lost sight of that empathy he had, however much of it.

It was on the level of Naruto's because of Sasuke's words and actions. In the manga he uses nearly the same words to Karin that he did with Naruto when they fought at the Valley of the End about the bond between them getting in the way of his goal, they had to die because his bond to them had temporarily distracted him (gave him something else to live for).

No, whatever the remnant Sasuke's bond to Sakura is not anywhere near that, never was for that matter. Sasuke just outright tries to kill her, no words or acknowledgement of any bond, she's just a threat. (he acts the same way in Grass Country actually). But you can say at least he recognizes her as a threat, to Kakashi he is just contemptuous, even worse than Orochimaru was to Hiruzen- Orochimaru at least acknowledged that had they fought 10 years earlier Hiruzen would have been a real threat to him, and plus Hiruzen detected that Orochimaru still felt something of bond, and while Orochimaru got mad about that, he didn't really deny it.

Studio Pierrot, by drastically minimizing the bond that Sasuke felt toward Taka, and especially to Karin (including going as far in causing injury to himself to save her as he only did for Naruto in part 1- he didn't go that far for Sakura in part 1.) takes away from Naruto too. It's this bond that showed even as dark as he had already gone there was still a shred of humanity- hope he could be redeemed.

Kishimoto also showed Sasuke did have a bit of mutual attraction to Karin. (something he absolutely never had for Sakura or any other girl- frankly before Karin I wondered if Sasuke was gay- his feelings toward Naruto shaded into a romantic love/hate, plus he never reacted the least bit negatively to Orochimaru's invasive fondling.) Sasuke stuttered and looked nervous in the original Japanese manga of the scene with Karin and himself when she overtly came onto him. (Instead of indifference, annoyance, or anger- his reactions to Sakura and Ino when they flirted or glomped him) Catsi can point out the other differences, I just noticed the overt stuff and mentally noted it.

I'm not saying at all it's anything wonderful that Karin was hesitant, just that it was there, (I'm not a SasukexKarin shipper but it was there in the manga and Pierrot ignored it to such an extreme it distorts the story) while they fillerized to way overplay Sakura's emotions toward Sasuke, and way underplayed her feelings toward Naruto. A bad pattern for them...

One wonders how they are going to reconcile all this playing around with manga canon when Naruto and Sakura do get together- they haven't done so much that anime only viewer will be going completely WTH? But they've done enough (and continue to) that those viewers will feel like they've been trolled and will unjustly blame Kishimoto. That's the core of what makes me really irritated at the animators, I don't like seeing a good writer having his reputation as writer lessened by animators fooling around with filler garbage that distorts canon. (and I know from what other manga writers have said about animators doing stuff like this to their stories, it really bugs them. There's harmless fillers and then there's fillers that distort canon. Harmless fillers they don't mind- sometimes even like: like Sakura pulling her hair back in the anime scene where she heals Kankuro- Kishimoto clearly liked that, because he has her hair that way in this arc while she's treating the injured. He's liked some of the filler costumes too, he's later done variants on them in the manga- like the ninja cloaks. Neither damaged manga canon, just interesting variations in hair and clothes.)

I do agree with Neesama about Kakashi's line (barring the idiotic filler garbage) it has the same basic meaning. (In fact I prefer it over what was used in the fan translation of the manga chapter- the line used in that gives off a kind of jerkish vibe that I don't think was what Kishimoto intended). I think the problem comes with the canon distortion in the episode, the minimizing of her feelings and actions toward Naruto and throwing in filler garbage with the focus on Sasuke that wasn't there in the manga, including the let's make Sakura look really dumb line...

Edited by ciardha, 10 June 2011 - 04:04 AM.

[Broken Figurine]

It was on the level of Naruto's because of Sasuke's words and actions. In the manga he uses nearly the same words to Karin that he did with Naruto when they fought at the Valley of the End about the bond between them getting in the way of his goal, they had to die because his bond to them had temporarily distracted him (gave him something else to live for).

No, whatever the remnant Sasuke's bond to Sakura is not anywhere near that, never was for that matter. Sasuke just outright tries to kill her, no words or acknowledgement of any bond, she's just a threat. (he acts the same way in Grass Country actually). But you can say at least he recognizes her as a threat, to Kakashi he is just contemptuous, even worse than Orochimaru was to Hiruzen- Orochimaru at least acknowledged that had they fought 10 years earlier Hiruzen would have been a real threat to him, and plus Hiruzen detected that Orochimaru still felt something of bond, and while Orochimaru got mad about that, he didn't really deny it.

Studio Pierrot, by drastically minimizing the bond that Sasuke felt toward Taka, and especially to Karin (including going as far in causing injury to himself to save her as he only did for Naruto in part 1- he didn't go that far for Sakura in part 1.) takes away from Naruto too. It's this bond that showed even as dark as he had already gone there was still a shred of humanity- hope he could be redeemed.

Kishimoto also showed Sasuke did have a bit of mutual attraction to Karin. (something he absolutely never had for Sakura or any other girl- frankly before Karin I wondered if Sasuke was gay- his feelings toward Naruto shaded into a romantic love/hate, plus he never reacted the least bit negatively to Orochimaru's invasive fondling.) Sasuke stuttered and looked nervous in the original Japanese manga of the scene with Karin and himself when she overtly came onto him. (Instead of indifference, annoyance, or anger- his reactions to Sakura and Ino when they flirted or glomped him) Catsi can point out the other differences, I just noticed the overt stuff and mentally noted it.

I'm not saying at all it's anything wonderful that Karin was hesitant, just that it was there, (I'm not a SasukexKarin shipper but it was there in the manga and Pierrot ignored it to such an extreme it distorts the story) while they fillerized to way overplay Sakura's emotions toward Sasuke, and way underplayed her feelings toward Naruto. A bad pattern for them...

One wonders how they are going to reconcile all this playing around with manga canon when Naruto and Sakura do get together- they haven't done so much that anime only viewer will be going completely WTH? But they've done enough (and continue to) that those viewers will feel like they've been trolled and will unjustly blame Kishimoto. That's the core of what makes me really irritated at the animators, I don't like seeing a good writer having his reputation as writer lessened by animators fooling around with filler garbage that distorts canon. (and I know from what other manga writers have said about animators doing stuff like this to their stories, it really bugs them. There's harmless fillers and then there's fillers that distort canon. Harmless fillers they don't mind- sometimes even like: like Sakura pulling her hair back in the anime scene where she heals Kankuro- Kishimoto clearly liked that, because he has her hair that way in this arc while she's treating the injured. He's liked some of the filler costumes too, he's later done variants on them in the manga- like the ninja cloaks. Neither damaged manga canon, just interesting variations in hair and clothes.)

I do agree with Neesama about Kakashi's line (barring the idiotic filler garbage) it has the same basic meaning. (In fact I prefer it over what was used in the fan translation of the manga chapter- the line used in that gives off a kind of jerkish vibe that I don't think was what Kishimoto intended). I think the problem comes with the canon distortion in the episode, the minimizing of her feelings and actions toward Naruto and throwing in filler garbage with the focus on Sasuke that wasn't there in the manga, including the let's make Sakura look really dumb line...

I never once recall Sasuke stuttering or looking nervous around her, and that's so out of character for him that if it was canon I'd be pretty unhappy. One thing I notice with Sasuke is that it's never considered if he cares for people on a human level beyond the romantic and no, I don't buy that he's done anything with her or that he has a "special place for her" when it deviates away from the path his character was set. Remember before team Taka? What was Sasuke all about? So I'm supposed to be believe he was able to leave behind everything, commit himself to power, but one girl who he once saved from a bear somehow manages to find that connection with him enough to be special on par with Naruto hasn't had nearly enough development to convince me. Karin had her chance to show that they had a meaningful relationship. That flashback could have been to anything. Would have revealed the big question--why does Karin love him?

She admired him. He saved her, and since then she's seen him as cool, been physically attracted to him, and clung onto the image of a boy she once saw in him. Goodness, that sounds familiar, but no... Sakura just wasn't important at all, because, I don't know, shipping preferences? For Karin to mean more to Sasuke than Sakura, it just doesn't make sense. Karin cares about him, I won't deny that, but he tried to killed the both of them; are you saying that somehow Karin's attempt was a little kinder? Oh, or maybe we shouldn't trust Karin herself to back away from him. Yeah... I don't think I would have minded SasuKarin, but for the same reasons I don't think SasuSaku works here, I don't make exceptions when there hasn't been enough to say "look, this is legit". Naruto and Sasuke have the most explored relationship, so it would take a lot more than using similar wording to say "look, he feels for someone just as closely" which I doubt. The episode's central theme is about Sasuke slipping into the darkness. Team Taka was meant to show that even though he had left Konoha and sworn himself to the darkness, he still had hope. He was able to create new bonds, and want people to live.

Karin is an interesting character, sure, and it took me a bit to actually appreciate her, but I don't place her on that level of importance. It's not cool that they mess with her scenes (or anybody's for that matter) but if you're saying they're meant to portray her as something extra-special..? I'd say Karin and Sakura are somewhere on the same level for him. It's why that time when Sakura was healing her was so effective, in my opinion. They were both hurt by someone they loved--in the same situation. Except depending on whether you ship SasuSaku or SasuKarin, you'll say one of them still had a chance with the other. Man, Naruto girls just let a guy get away with everything huh?

Episode content --Click here to view--

Bah, the only relationship I'm interested in was Naruto's and Sasuke's as far as our Uchiha goes--and the part for this episode where they clashed was great. Unfortunately... As Kushina said, flashbacks are way too abundent in this episode. They should have finished off that scene instead of having it carry over to the next episode. They should know something about pacing, right? Or are they padding? Probably padding.

Edited by Broken Figurine, 10 June 2011 - 06:54 AM.

[Kobayashi]

Agreeing with your assessment, way underplayed Sakura's showing her love for Naruto, instead having her look at Sasuke. and the ultimate stupid filler line they gave her "he was really going to kill me" Uh that made her look really freaking stupid and totally contradicted her knowledge of how bad he'd become. Sakura certainly knew Sasuke was capable of killing her, and sure as heck wouldn't have been surprised when he orders her to kill Karin. In manga canon Sakura hardly looks at Sasuke at all once Naruto shows up. The only time she looks at him is when she gets mad and yells at him for Naruto's sake, and they have those lines in there, but again underplay Sakura's connection to Naruto, because in manga canon at lines, "even now" her eyes go back and focus on Naruto. Yeah, they definitely altered it to make it look less narusaku and inserted filler garbage to make it slant toward sasusaku. Oh and they again underplayed sasukarin, in manga canon Karin's lines were less definiteive. But they've never liked sasukarin, dropping all the moments where Sasuke actually showed a bond to her (on the level of his with Naruto's). They want to keep pushing sasusaku no matter how it makes Sakura look, just because it's still (barely) more popular than narusaku in Japan. I dislike whenever the anime team distorts things way too obviously from manga canon. It looks especially bad since they even emphasized "psycho Sasuke" even more than Kishimoto did. Sasuke actually drops back to semi sane (for him in part 2) once he Naruto start talking.

Agree with your post and the second one. I really dont know why they deliberately screw things up. I am wondering what japanese NS fandom has to say to all this crap, do they even have their own opinion, and do they tell that opinion? If Hinata fans are nagging all the time, could NS fans give normal criticism not bashing but civilized mail. It looks like they approve what anime team is doing in anime because they dont say anything, that is why anime team dont respect NS fandom, like they are afraid of NH and SS fandoms cause they always start up revolution. Is NS fandom ranting about chapters and episodes in their own forums, even if i found their NS forum page it wouldnt matter cause i cant read Japanese. Does anybody know what do they think and what do they do most of the time? Ok if SS has more votes than NS but this gives them no right too bash rightful NS moments. They could made them just like it was in manga like they almost did confession chapter, not add filler crap, how hard can it be?

Was studion Pierot animating Naruto since the beginning of the series? If so how come they have rights to do anime for this long, i mean in almost every country contracts are written for a short amount of time 1-2 max 3 years and than they switch to better firm or they stick to that one if it is that good. But there are much better anime teams out there, who are more eager to do Naruto than these guys. Also they almost always screw up Sakura look in the anime, when Naruto held her in his arms she looked like she has deep stage anorexia or she died of some kind of disease so he holds her fragile body, only once they made her beautiful as she deserves as she is drawn in manga and that was confession episode. Hinata at her best looks fat and in ragged clothes.

I know... --Click here to view--

the amount flashbacks is really ridiculous, right? No wonder Naruto Abridged makes jokes about them constantly. But if the haven't stopped or at least downplayed the amound yet, I don't think they will. Well, at least we can say Naruto is the anime with the most flashbacks per episode and in total.

Yeah now we are having whole episode flashbacks. Super they should sit by the camp fire and remember all the goodie times that happened in the past, who cares about the war and moving on with the plot lets all sit and indulge ourself in the past. Even better lets watch next 10 episodes how sasuke rejects sakura, still wasnt carved through my skull yet.

Edited by Kobayashi, 10 June 2011 - 08:57 AM.