31574 replies to this topic

[Derock]

It hard to find any data. We know the Naruto to Boruto game was a flop a few months back. As for the manga:  Lets see: Vol. 3: 180k Vol. 4: 130k Vol. 5: 124k Now Vol. 6: 96k."

 

... Wait, wait, wait. So if the series is "popular and selling", then why the manga numbers are going down on each volume?!

[LuckyChi7]

Just a heads up, I edited both of your posts. Watch the language, people. Carry on.

 

my bad 

[DrK]

It hard to find any data. We know the Naruto to Boruto game was a flop a few months back. As for the manga:  Lets see: Vol. 3: 180k Vol. 4: 130k Vol. 5: 124k Now Vol. 6: 96k."

But Vol. 6 was super popular. So does that mean that Vols 3-5 were mega ultra popular?

Edited by DrK, 07 February 2019 - 05:22 AM.

[dl316bh]

It hard to find any data. We know the Naruto to Boruto game was a flop a few months back. As for the manga:  Lets see: Vol. 3: 180k Vol. 4: 130k Vol. 5: 124k Now Vol. 6: 96k."

 

Hmm. I don't know much about typical volume sales numbers for series that are supposed to be big in the industry, but those are some major drops, especially for something already a couple volumes in. Looks like a lot of people decided they'd seen enough with volume three and more decided the same after volume five.

 

... Wait, wait, wait. So if the series is "popular and selling", then why the manga numbers are going down on each volume?!

 

That's normal, actually, unless the work in question is a phenomenon. Normal in most mediums, from comics to movies to whatever. It's sales attrition. Usually as something gets further and further along, it loses readers/viewers, whether they've just lost interest in the series or in some cases something actively pissed them off. There are ways to shake things up and bring readers back, but it's generally normal.

 

The numbers quoted there are what do not seem normal to me. Those are big drops for something several volumes in. But I'm not as familiar with Japanese comic sales, just American, so I'm no authority on the matter. Hell, it may still be well within what they consider popular. We don't know what their metrics or expectations for Boruto are.

[Phantom_999]

Question, why are you guys assuming Black Clover is the next Naruto?  No one I knew even talk about that series, online and off. But I'm seeing everywhere that My Hero Academia is getting all of the attention to become the next Naruto.

 

I didn't say it was, It has similar themes to Naruto and not just that, it has a similar structure to Fairy Tail, etc etc. Point is It has A LOT of Shonen cliches in it which is why it doesn't didn't leave the best first impressions but as the story came along it just steadily got better and better. I actually think that Black Clover pulls off the themes that it shares with Naruto MUCH BETTER. MHA is more along the lines of a spiritual successor (and definitely superior if you ask me), which is the common consensus but, Black Clover is just well something that seems similar to Naruto. But ultimately, if you give it a shot and are not avoiding shonen cliches like the plague then you might find it pretty enjoyable, I know I do and several others here too in fact. 

Edited by Phantom_999, 08 February 2019 - 06:57 PM.

[jak123]

 

yeah I don't even know what the story is with Bleach.

 

Black Clover, I believe is still quite popular despite all the negativity surrounding it. I'm not actually sure of what the statistics are for the anime's popularity, nor do I know for sure if it is a big money maker for SP but I think it is doing quite well since it was renewed for new episodes. It originally was supposed to be 13 then pushed to 51, after that point the episodes kept rolling so, yeah. But again I don't know for sure, I am personally a big fan though   

Alot of the negativity seems to come from the poor anime adaptation. I really enjoy the manga.

[Phantom_999]

Admittedly, My Hero Academia also follows the typical shonen structure so if you asre sick of shonen manga/anime or are looking for  something new, you won't actually find it. That said, it does have some noticeable influence from American Comics though the Author for it is a a huge Marvel fan so in Japan it has become quite a novelty.

Edited by Phantom_999, 08 February 2019 - 06:55 PM.

[KClaws_2]

Naruto has been on a steady decline in sales since the war arc started. The final volume sales were a little over a million; by no means a flop, but not what they were probably aiming for. 

 

When the first volume of Boruto didn't break 200k, and continued to decline, that's a bad sign for the franchise moving forward. These numbers may be considered okay for a new monthly series, but for a franchise that was once a major cash-cow, I would've found these numbers unacceptable. 

 

There could be many factors, but if I had to choose:

1) They took too long to get the project off the ground, or didn't wait long enough

It could be either of those things. People WERE getting burned out by Naruto, and Boruto didn't titillate their interest.

On the other hand, SJ DID tease the new era project right before the end of Naruto. Let's face it, everyone was talking about how the series would end and who the children would be (both pro and anti). For better or worse, they moved forward with the Last, the Boruto movie came out afterwards....and for a whole year we heard nothing. That probably killed interest, being promised something but having nothing to show for it.

2) Didn't give off a good first impression

Obviously most were NOT a fan of the artstyle. Good or bad, it was a little bit too different to pass as one of Kishimoto's works. Sarada's outfit made no sense, and they only made it worse as well.

3) REHASH

Probably the biggest factor, and very stupid on their part. Fans got the Boruto movie animated, they didn't want to see it redone in manga format (especially with such a different artstyle). They didn't make a manga version of the Last, if nothing else because they probably realized they would only be showing off what they saw before in a less-appealing format. Add to the fact it's monthly and what should have felt like two hours instead felt like eternity.

4) We have a glimpse of the ending

Yeah, I'm not sure what they were thinking with this one. It felt like they were trying to do what the first episode of Shippuden did, but in the later that manga chapter had been out for a while. Here, NO ONE knows what the hell is going on, and the pacing of the story is not helping. 

5) The anime is more interesting

I probably shouldn't put this on the list since I really haven't cared to watch the anime, but I do know that the anime is having their own arcs and so far has not adapted any of the new material from the manga. I wouldn't say these arcs are "good" (apparently the last arc was especially bad) but at least they're animated and have some action going on. It's something at least.

6) Kishimoto is not involved

I think this is probably the main factor. Kishimoto said since the Boruto movie he wasn't going to do Naruto anymore, and I think many hardcore fans took this as a sign to get off. When a creator hands his work over to someone else, the response is anywhere from mixed to negative. 

[Namaenash]

I beg to differ though :)

Naruto was not declining until volume 64 came out. You can refer to my past posts for numbers breakdown. Volume 64 was the one with Hinata handholding cover.

Kishimoto is supervising Boruto, whatever that entails, that's how it is sold to the readers. I believe he is contractually still obligated to support the franchise.

This series declined in sales due to obvious reason: they killed the 'significant few' readers that supported them financially. Pareto principle taking effect, so to speak. Proxy statistics are out there for anyone who would like to make educated guess. Who is this segment of customer? Well, NS is probably large portion of it. We're the only group who gets nothing albeit our support. We're the only group that the author mocked :)

Only WSJ has the complete stats. But hey, you can see that after the whole fiasco with the ending, Hinata is almost nowhere to be seen again yeah? They learned that she didn't sell to broader audience, why bother developing plot that involves her?

I feel there's a little correlation with the monthly pace, or who is the author of the manga. It's as simple as the main group that financed the manga decided to left. So, now it's up to NH and SS fans to support it (and of course, new readers that they acquire).

Here's a thought about readers behaviour and 'significant few' when it comes to buying manga: in 2018, WSJ decided to restructure Slam Dunk from 31 volume to 20 volume. No change of story, just updated covers from Takehiko Inoue. That year within 6 months, Slam Dunk series was ranked on the 4th of yearly sales, with only a few thousands less than Attack on Titan.

Btw, Boruto anime has never entered top 10 anime ranking yet. Whereas Naruto can easily be spotted in top 5 during its golden time. If you noticed that since the manga ends, Naruto anime hardly enters top 10. Even its final episode didn't make it to top 8th if I'm not mistaken (it was ranked 9th or 10th). For a USD 8 billion worth of franchise, that's a shame really.

TL;DR WSJ took the wrong business decision with Naruto. NH/SS fans, the one who people claimed to be very popular, didn't help much with their contributions to the series financially.

Edited by Namaenash, 09 February 2019 - 04:24 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

Question, why are you guys assuming Black Clover is the next Naruto?  No one I knew even talk about that series, online and off. But I'm seeing everywhere that My Hero Academia is getting all of the attention to become the next Naruto.

Honestly, I was half joking. I am only basing this off the first picture I saw of the series with the main character being a blonde-haired boy with a huge grin and his rival I guess who look basically emo with straight black hair and always looks so apathetic about everything.

Honestly, both Black Clover and Naruto follow a very recent Shonen stereotype story structure.
Two kids abandoned at a young age. Both want to be the best and be the strongest in the world.

I am not seeing how My Hero follows Naruto as My Hero is more about a kid wanting to be a great hero. He is sort of an underdog, but he is not overly ostracized by the rest of the group. He has maybe one bully and the rest are either indifferent or actually are his friends. He is not treated like a monster from the whole village.

I find that the shonen structure has evolved from one to another.
1990-2010 The Shonen structure seemed to be "Guy is just looking to improve, finds a rival that is taking things way too seriously, main guy becomes strongest." Dragonball Z did this, One Piece, Ruroni Kenshin did this, and so on and so forth.

2010 to about 2016-18
The shonen type was like "An underdog everyone craps on finds a moody rival that share a bond and they begin their journey to be the best." Naruto, Black Clover, etc.

Now the new Shonen types almost seems like a cross breed where the MC underdog just wants to make a difference with a very angry rival who is pissed off at the MC because they are bully only to be taught a lesson. MC ends up being the strongest.
My Hero.

I think Black Clover feels much more similar to Naruto is because of the "Hokage" and "Grand wizard"jobs sound similar. I know people say "that is basically a shonen story structure," but I think the more important is how the story plays out. I haven't read it, but it is just a joke called Black Clover "Naruto meets hot topic."

Edited by James S Cassidy, 09 February 2019 - 05:38 PM.

[Bail o' Lies]

Naruto has been on a steady decline in sales since the war arc started. The final volume sales were a little over a million; by no means a flop, but not what they were probably aiming for. 

 

When the first volume of Boruto didn't break 200k, and continued to decline, that's a bad sign for the franchise moving forward. These numbers may be considered okay for a new monthly series, but for a franchise that was once a major cash-cow, I would've found these numbers unacceptable. 

 

There could be many factors, but if I had to choose:

1) They took too long to get the project off the ground, or didn't wait long enough

It could be either of those things. People WERE getting burned out by Naruto, and Boruto didn't titillate their interest.

On the other hand, SJ DID tease the new era project right before the end of Naruto. Let's face it, everyone was talking about how the series would end and who the children would be (both pro and anti). For better or worse, they moved forward with the Last, the Boruto movie came out afterwards....and for a whole year we heard nothing. That probably killed interest, being promised something but having nothing to show for it.

2) Didn't give off a good first impression

Obviously most were NOT a fan of the artstyle. Good or bad, it was a little bit too different to pass as one of Kishimoto's works. Sarada's outfit made no sense, and they only made it worse as well.

3) REHASH

Probably the biggest factor, and very stupid on their part. Fans got the Boruto movie animated, they didn't want to see it redone in manga format (especially with such a different artstyle). They didn't make a manga version of the Last, if nothing else because they probably realized they would only be showing off what they saw before in a less-appealing format. Add to the fact it's monthly and what should have felt like two hours instead felt like eternity.

4) We have a glimpse of the ending

Yeah, I'm not sure what they were thinking with this one. It felt like they were trying to do what the first episode of Shippuden did, but in the later that manga chapter had been out for a while. Here, NO ONE knows what the hell is going on, and the pacing of the story is not helping. 

5) The anime is more interesting

I probably shouldn't put this on the list since I really haven't cared to watch the anime, but I do know that the anime is having their own arcs and so far has not adapted any of the new material from the manga. I wouldn't say these arcs are "good" (apparently the last arc was especially bad) but at least they're animated and have some action going on. It's something at least.

6) Kishimoto is not involved

I think this is probably the main factor. Kishimoto said since the Boruto movie he wasn't going to do Naruto anymore, and I think many hardcore fans took this as a sign to get off. When a creator hands his work over to someone else, the response is anywhere from mixed to negative. 

Did it? I can't remember the first one sales numbers honestly because I haven't put forth the energy to look for it. So, I just settle for starting at the 3 volumes numbers.

 

1) That is incorrect, about how they did nothing for that year. The funny thing is that they did keep Naruto active; in Japan. A month after the ending they had the Last Movie, then next month they went to Jump Festa to celebrate the ending of Naruto and the start of Boruto, then for the next five month they release light novels to connect the ending to the Last, then they had the gaiden about Sarada, then they next month they had the Boruto movie, then Kishimoto went to comic con which also showed the Boruto movie which then showed through out the fall, and then in Jumpfesta they showed the Boruto manga. then the next spring they started Boruto the manga while the anime adapted the light novels to give the manga time before starting on the manga.

 

So, again they were very busy keeping Naruto alive for that year of 2015; in Japan where the audience rapidly became disinterested in the brand after the last. They didn't start doing anything in the US till the fall; if we don't count the last.

 

2) I think people would have been more forgiving if it wasn't for number 3, except Salad's new outfit people hated that from the first image.

 

3) Yes the rehash is probably what crippled the series the most.

 

4) We got a glimpse of what is likely the ending. The problem with them doing this is it defined what the story would be and what path it would take; rehashing the SNS conflict. Therefor limiting the story to something their readers had already seen before.

 

5) The anime is weekly so it was able to keep its viewer attention more, and animated. however, since the start of the cup's arc a lot of people are getting sick of the filler feel of the show and want them to move on to the actual story; which they can't. 

 

6) Some people may have lost interest in the series due to Kishimoto not being the mangaka, but some just wanted to see the story of Hinata's Triumphant Glory through her son. Also they kept him as an overseer so they could still claim he is keeping an eye on the series, if he honestly is or not we can debate.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 09 February 2019 - 09:48 PM.

[jak123]

Did it? I can't remember the first one sales numbers honestly because I haven't put forth the energy to look for it. So, I just settle for starting at the 3 volumes numbers.

 

1) That is incorrect, about how they did nothing for that year. The funny thing is that they did keep Naruto active; in Japan. A month after the ending they had the Last Movie, then next month they went to Jump Festa to celebrate the ending of Naruto and the start of Boruto, then for the next five month they release light novels to connect the ending to the Last, then they had the gaiden about Sarada, then they next month they had the Boruto movie, then Kishimoto went to comic con which also showed the Boruto movie which then showed through out the fall, and then in Jumpfesta they showed the Boruto manga. then the next spring they started Boruto the manga while the anime adapted the light novels to give the manga time before starting on the manga.

 

So, again they were very busy keeping Naruto alive for that year of 2015; in Japan where the audience rapidly became disinterested in the brand after the last. They didn't start doing anything in the US till the fall; if we don't count the last.

 

2) I think people would have been more forgiving if it wasn't for number 3, except Salad's new outfit people hated that from the first image.

 

3) Yes the rehash is probably what crippled the series the most.

 

4) We got a glimpse of what is likely the ending. The problem with them doing this is it defined what the story would be and what path it would take; rehashing the SNS conflict. Therefor limiting the story to something their readers had already seen before.

 

5) The anime is weekly so it was able to keep its viewer attention more, and animated. however, since the start of the cup's arc a lot of people are getting sick of the filler feel of the show and want them to move on to the actual story; which they can't. 

 

6) Some people may have lost interest in the series due to Kishimoto not being the mangaka, but some just wanted to see the story of Hinata's Triumphant Glory through her son. Also they kept him as an overseer so they could still claim he is keeping an eye on the series, if he honestly is or not we can debate.

 

See to me, the whole Sarada outfit complaint is a massive nitpick. Yeah, it's a skirt, but most of the major character's outfits don't make any sense as ninja attire. Naruto wore a kittening bright orange suit in the entirety of Naruto. 

Edited by jak123, 10 February 2019 - 12:43 AM.

[Phantom_999]

I really don't care all that much about Sarada's outfit, but if there is a problem with it, it is understandable, because there are unfortunate implications, there cultural differences aside. But again it is whatever to me because I don't care about the series and never will. Whether or not it is nitpicking though, you have to understand why it does get some back lash with fans. But moving on.

Edited by Phantom_999, 10 February 2019 - 08:28 PM.

[jak123]

I really don't care all that much about Sarada's outfit, but if there is a problem with it, it is understandable, because there are unfortunate implications, there cultural differences aside. But again it is whatever to me because I don't care about the series and never will. Whether or not it is nitpicking though, you have to understand why it does get some back lash with fans. But moving on.

See no. I don't understand. Even if there are cultural differences, for 1. It's not real, it's art. and 2. It's only sexual, if you choose to sexualize it. 

[TheFirstEvil100]

You know a thought came to me today as I was playing Metal Gear Solid for the PS1 something Liquid Snake to Solid Snake. "You enjoy all the killing,"

 

And this rings true with Naruto; he's still, keeping the Ninja system like it is because he enjoys it, and is all he knows, or even something else maybe, maybe a kitten you to everyone who hurt the Uchiha. I mean we know Naruto loves the Uchiha and sees they did nothing wrong.

[Bail o' Lies]

I believe this has pointed this out before, but we weren't the only ones criticizing the outfit. The Japanese also had complaints the second they saw it as well.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 11 February 2019 - 05:06 AM.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

See no. I don't understand. Even if there are cultural differences, for 1. It's not real, it's art. and 2. It's only sexual, if you choose to sexualize it. 

Except Japan also voiced distaste for it, which lead to it getting altered, so...

[milan kyuubi]

For some unknown reason this was being recommended to me on my yt channel. Honestly wanted to throw up upon seeing this. Looks more like some parody. Makes it easier to ignore everything after Pein arc. Naruto should res Hidan, Kakuzu, Kisame etc etc and have them kill those who stopped them. Since apperently thats Naruto's mo.

 

[Bail o' Lies]

Oh yeah we talked about it a few weeks ago. Also remember Konohamaru is force to train his son, without know he is doing so. Then get lectured by Naruto when asking why he wasn't at least told before.

 

831,000 people have watched that? That is both very high but also very low numbers.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 11 February 2019 - 09:03 AM.

[James S Cassidy]

See no. I don't understand. Even if there are cultural differences, for 1. It's not real, it's art. and 2. It's only sexual, if you choose to sexualize it. 

Might want to tell this one to a the "Shonen Jump Weekly" crowd that has a problem with anime "over-sexualizing women" for the "male fantasy" and what not.

The biggest problem is not the outfit so much as it is who is wearing it...basically a 12-13 year old girl. After the Ruroni Kenshin writer was caught with child pornography and such it has become an issue.
 

Although it is funny when this happens

video

 

 

Oh yeah we talked about it a few weeks ago. Also remember Konohamaru is force to train his son, without know he is doing so. Then get lectured by Naruto when asking why he wasn't at least told before.

 

831,000 people have watched that? That is both very high but also very low numbers.

 

So, we have an episode of Boruto where Naruto spends time with his daughter, but can't train his own son because "he is too busy."

I love how Naruto gets mad that Konohamaru taught Boruto a bit, but then tells Boruto that the village is his family and he needs to rely on them and not him to be a father figure.

Man, this Naruto is just....the biggest hypocrite MC in the entire anime industry.

"It is only bad when everyone else does it, but when I do it it is okay."
-Naruto Uzumaki





 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 11 February 2019 - 05:30 PM.