Ah the home stretch and its cooler out.

Whether it's NS, SS, or NH, it doesn't matter. Naruto is not a shoujo manga. It's a shonen manga with a primary focus on fights, villains and plot. The pairings were just secondary plots that shipping fans gave too much importance due to the drama Kishimoto created and pairings wars inside the Fandom.

 

But whether you like it or not, Sasuke is the second main character of the manga. More than half of the manga and its arcs revolve around him and the Uchiha clan. He was Sakura's first love and the one she ended up with. He was also the main link that brought Sakura and Naruto together in Part 2 and the central theme of their interactions.

 

That's why I created this topic to discuss what a Part 2 for Sakura and Naruto would be like with Sasuke  in the village and without any major drama surrounding him like in Part 1. 

Ah you remembered that Naruto was a shounen manga and not a Shoujo...Wonder how long that will last?

The overfocus is because the Uchiha clan was one of the few elements Kishimoto developed early on. When he got into the later parts of the manga where he wasn't allowed to slow down because the anime was constantly at his heels. So he increasingly made it more and more important both because of a lack of other stories to work with and to justify the eternal chase after Sasuke.

Why that line sound very familiar to me. In fact, it sound like the general warning I gave after you got into a fight over SS with Blue in my Boruto Nicknames topic. As the person that has been the most on topic in this discussion. i find it very rude that you are lording over the members within the first page. Anyways your topic isn't about just about what NS would be like if Sasuke was in the village for part two. For one, you pretty much imply you don't believe they had any friendship at all unless Sasuke was gone, having no bond in part one, and only having a bond about Sasuke in part two. Which anyone who had any understanding of Naruto would have to disagree with. Two, you asked them various scenarios and the likelihood of SS happening in those. Which I am the only one, as far as I can tell, who has even tried to go through those. Hell, I have been going over you posts when I had time over the weekend to see what you are even going on about in this discussion.

Sasuke also had a tragic past marked by the Uchiha clan massacre. Additionally, characters like Itachi, Madara, and Orochimaru constantly manipulated him, trying to sway him down the wrong path. These events played a crucial role in Sasuke's departure from Team 7, the ensuing drama and his descent into "darkness" of Part 2.

 

The issue is that you want a Sasuke who pines for Sakura or openly asks her out on dates like Naruto. He's a character with a completely opposite personality. That will never happen.  However, in Part 1, it was clear that Sasuke cared about Sakura deeply, even to the point of being willing to die to save her. This was before the drama with the Uchihas unfolded and he left the village. Additionally, she had a level of influence over him, as seen when she helped break the cursed seal with her hug.

 

Even if less important characters could change after Naruto TnJ , it was naive to believe that Sasuke would never return, find a new purpose, or acknowledge Sakura in the end.  "SasuSaku" was never dead until Sakura moved on from Sasuke. Sasuke had already demonstrated his capacity for a complete turnaround without any Naruto TnJ. His decision to abandon his plan to destroy the village and instead fight in the war to protect it as clear evidence of this.

Sasuke also did nearly die to save Naruto from Haku's attack. Are you saying he was in love with Naruto then? Hell it was instinctual when he did it for Naruto. So, based on that is he more in love with Naruto or Sakura? He at least talks to and spends time with Naruto. Again, Sasuke did care for Sakura like he care for Naruto, but he ended his bond with Sakura when he left the village. And he made it clear he never loved her.

Though granted, you kind of made it clear you will ignore anything Sasuke says or feels when it doesn't suit your narrative. You don't care what he says, how he feels, what he thinks, what he wants, or even who he loves. He just a big sexy dreamy bad boy you can fix and anything to the contrary? He better shut his mouth.

Wait wasn't the TnJ and the eternal chase just Kishimoto trolling or something to you or something? It so hard to remember when and when not Kishimoto is trolling according to your standards. 

If he didn't like it, Kishimoto had the pen and the authority to avoid making them official and stopping emphasizing Sakura's feelings altogether. The idea that Kishimoto was forced to do anything by the shipping fandom or editors is absurd. As the creator and owner of the franchise, he had complete creative control over everything in his manga, including secondary plots pairings. Especially at the end of the manga when Kishimoto was doing whatever he wanted. Or did some editor forced Kishimoto to make Kaguya?   Madara was much more popular than her . 

  

Sasuke ultimately accepted Sakura's feelings, while Rin ended up dead by Kakashi's hand, leaving Kakashi filled with guilt and resentment.  Kakashi could have easily dismissed Sakura's love as childish and foolissh and emphasized Naruto's loves for Sakura at this moment like he did with Rin. But he never did. Furthermore, Kakashi defended Sakura's feelings for Sasuke when she confessed for the second time, arguing that Sasuke was wrong to reject them.

 

While there are parallels between Team 7 and other characters, fundamental differences prevent them from being mere clones.  Sasuke, Naruto and Sakura  has their own unique identities. Additionally, there's no Hinata's equivalent in the other teams and neither Kushina and Minato have any ""Sasuke"" in their life.

 

Theoretically, Sakura surpassed Rin. She didn't die and won the love of her teammate. Naruto surpassed Obito. He didn't become a simp obsessed with a girl for his entire life and achieved his dream of becoming Hokage.

 

Sakura surpassed Tsunade. She didn't lose any loved ones and managed to save Sasuke and Naruto, unlike Tsunade who lost Dan and Nawaki. Naruto surpassed Jiraiya. He managed to save his friend and became Hokage.

 

It was never stated that the only important aspect of the parallels was Naruto simply winning Sakura's love. It's not like Naruto gives this the same importance to that as he does to Sasuke or his dream of becoming Hokage. He never said:  "How I can become Hokage without Sakura-Chan as my wife?"  But he did say he couldn't be Hokage without Sasuke back.

 

The POAL, which was once was  requirement for Naruto to confess his feelings to Sakura, was simply disregarded when Sakura "confessed". Instead, Naruto declared his unwavering resolve to save Sasuke, regardless of Sakura's approval.

You seem to underestimate the power of corporations. They order Kishimoto to do something and he does it or he loses money to feed his family. By the time of the ending Naruto stop mattering as the only thing that mattered was setting up the sequel Boruto. Eventually, there was a point he wasn't allowed to say no because there was too much money put into the Next Generation project. 

Its strange you hate Ikemoto so much when he is the primary reason SS happened.

Kaguya was to make the Hyuuga's more important to the plot and introduce the second sage who was the ancestor the the Hyuuga clan. To justify Hinata becoming the Heroine, and to replace the branch seal plot that died with Neji. As well as connect the story to the Last's plot.

The same logic can be applied to both SS and NH. Why did Kishimoto make Hinata confess her love for Naruto and kill Neji if he didn't have plans for NH? Why did Kishimoto make Sakura admits that she still loved  Sasuke in chapter 540, have her declare her love so many times throughout the series?

 

The Last began it's production in 2012. So, by then, Kishimoto had already decided the main couples.  Probably, he just threw the Kushina/Sakura  to keep the NaruSaku fandom interested in the manga until the end, prolonging the dramas or pairing wars between SS/NH/NS until the last chapter. 

 

Not that I agree with this stupid logic of deceiving a portion of the manga readers. But he himself admitted to using it as a form of trolling and red herrings in a interview later.

His new editor during the Pein arc was a nH fan and wanted her to replace Hinata. For Neji death, Derock says that one anime staff member literally wouldn't stop whining about how much he hated Neji and demanding Kishimoto kill him. 540 was the Iwa ninja who gave her a love letter for healing him, her turning him down, and he praises the guy she likes. She then has a negative look on her face when she thinks of Sasuke. The readers was not suppose to take that as a good thing, but well people like you did.

Was the Last always intended to be canon? Or was it originally going to be another anime movie till Kishimoto decided he was going to end his cash cow manga, and various companies came up with ideas how to keep it going so they can make money from it?

You be surprised what people will say to get their paychecks. Mark Hamill didn't like The Last Jedi and thought he wasn't even playing Luke Skywalker. Fans who didn't like the movie use his statements for support. Mark Hamill stop making statements critical of Star Wars. Kishimoto interviews after the ending that convince fans the ending was last minute change so they leave. Kishimoto starts giving interviews where nH/SS was the plan along. Quite the quandary isn't it?

I've always disagreed with this  argument that Sakura's role as a main female hinges on her ending up with Naruto.

Sakura's prominence throughout the manga and her significance as Team 7's member solidify her place as a main female of the franchise, regardless of whether she ended up alone or married to any random character.

 

Sakura remained far more important than Hinata until the final chapter of the manga written by Kishimoto.

I cannot recall Hinata having any significant role in the war aside from holding Naruto's hand and constantly mentioning his name like a robot.

• It was Sakura who unraveled White Zetsu's plan. 
• Sakura received the Byakugou and healed the entire Ninja Alliance, surpassing Tsunade. 
• Sakura saved Naruto while Hinata tripped over a rock. 
• Sakura saved Sasuke and played a crucial role against Kaguya while Hinata remained trapped alongside the other secondary characters. 
• Sakura received her character conclusion in the final volume and chapter of the manga. 
• Sakura had a Gaiden dedicated to her daughter in the manga and later saved Sasuke, Naruto, and Sarada from a powerfull enemy.
• To this day, Sakura receives far more novels, merchandise, and official events than Hinata.

 

At most, Hinata was the heroine of The Last. In the Boruto manga in trash anyway and her presence is practically nonexisten

If popularity were a criterion for defining the manga's heroine, Sakura crushed Hinata in the last popularity poll. Hinata did not become the heroine nor did she become more popular for ending up as Naruto's housewife.

You can be as upset of it as much as you want. But that was Sakura's role and when she lost that she lost most of her relevance to the plot. She went from either the second or third most important character in the story to non-existent. Neither facts nor the truth rest solely on your approval of them.

They thought she was unpopular and could be replaced. It backfired. And that poll last years showed that to everyone.

Around 70% of the fandom was focused on power levels and the plot. Meanwhile, pairing fans were constantly discussing their parallels, pairings, getting embroiled in shipping wars and mocking rival fans on Tumblr, blowing things out of proportion.

 

For example, I've even encountered many NaruSaku Shippers who believe Naruto failed completely as a character because he 'lost' Sakura and moved on.    

 

Maybe if these fans had dedicated themselves more to the actual manga plot instead of talking about ship wars and pairings all the time, the shock and rage wouldn't have been so great for the losing side. Inevitably, in a love triangle dragged out for so long, some part of the fandom will feel like losers, whether they were SS, NH, or NS fans.

 

 

Anyway, this isn't exclusive to Kishimoto or Naruto manga. Ichigo and Rukia fans were outraged that Ichigo ended up with Orihime. Even today, there are shipping wars in the Avatar fandom, with Zutara and KataAang fans insulting each other and Zutara fans refusing to accept the canon.

Yet the pairing debates are what make the Naruto fanbase infamous and notoriously toxic that it puts off potential new fans. Don't worry most of the blame from what I have seen and heard falls largely on the nH fans, before the ending. Then when nH/SS happened. Instead of peacefully enjoying their victory. They both started fighting each other and chasing every other faction off.

Well lets see before the ending when Naruto loved Sakura he was successfully working towards his goal. After the ending he is a failure at everything he accomplishes. So it natural to think when they only difference he was no longer with Sakura and the only goal her failed to achieve before the ending was getting together with her. Maybe if he had gotten with her the sequel and everything else would be better.

One thing I learned after 700 chapters of Naruto and 6 years following the manga  It's that there's one thing Kishimoto loves more than trolling and drama. Those are plot twists, no matter how surprising or poorly done, especially after a Talk no Jutsu from Naruto. A discerning reader will readily identify the recurring pattern.

Oh that old chestnut. Right for people that might not know or forgotten. Both Oda and Kubo had online accounts and used to tease and troll their fans. So people assumed Kishimoto must be the same and used that to explain any storyline or plot development they didn't like. Hinata wasn't the heroine having non-stop sex scenes with Naruto every chapter was because Kishimoto was trolling them. Sakura didn't fight was because Kishimoto was trolling them. The story is generic because Kishimoto is trolling them. NS was just one big long troll by Kishimoto he spent most of the manga developing that pairing to the point of almost completely ignoring the others beyond making them look bad because he was planning a 15 year long joke.

This of course ignores the fact that one, outside of events like Jumpfesta he never interacts with fans. I don't think he even has any social media accounts. Two, the interviews he gives never come off as him enjoying his 15 year long joke but a guy that gave into pressure and wondered if he did the right thing. Well, till he threw up his hands and stopped caring. Also the simple question. If Kishimoto is some great genius artist that was half-assing Naruto for a joke, Why did Samurai 8 flop!?

6 Years? Its been 10. Were you in a coma for 4 years? Are you alright? Comas that long have been know to be cause by or result in severe brain damage.

One thing I learned after 700 chapters of Naruto and 6 years following the manga  It's that there's one thing Kishimoto loves more than trolling and drama. Those are plot twists, no matter how surprising or poorly done, especially after a Talk no Jutsu from Naruto. A discerning reader will readily identify the recurring pattern.

 

Zabuza saying he didn't care about Haku and he didn't mean nothing to him, but after a Talk no Jutsu, he went on to love him. 

 

Gaara, hated by the village and killing everyone, then became the Kazekage after a Talk no Jutsu. 

 

Nagato reviving the entire village after Naruto's TnJ.

 

Itachi, a psychopath who killed the clan in front of his brother and tortured him to the limits of insanity, becomes a martyr and a loving brother after his death.

 

Kishimoto wouldn't throw in a second declaration of love for Sakura in the last volume of the manga for nothing. Everyone, including NaruSaku fans, should be aware of the possibility of Sasuke's 180-degree shift in relation to Sakura and the potential for repressed feelings to be shown after his fight against Naruto and Naruto's Talk no Jutsu.

Look, sometimes blue curtains in a story is just some blue curtains.

Naruto is a standard Shounen manga with standard moralities and tropes. Its not uncommon for Japanese stories to teach Japanese kids that they just need to understand their opponents and talk to them to make peace with them.

As for 693 I could try to explain that was likely Kishimoto showing how much he didn't like the pairing and didn't want to go through with it, but you won't believe it. Wait. Wait. You think Kishimoto is just a big troll and any issues with the manga are him trolling right? Well there is your answer. He is trolling the SS fans. Think about it. Why would such a great troll stop at a mere 15 years long joke? When he can make one that last an eternity that he could laugh at the entire time, including those 15 years? That why SS has no positive development even after they got together. He made a pairing with no positive elements beyond how hot the guy is. Just to watch pathetic women desperate for some hot fantasy that will never happen to them in real life try to justify it and laugh at their excuses. Now, isn't that what a Great Troll like Kishimoto would do? 

I  consider only the Boruto manga non canon because it wasn't written, illustrated and even  Kishimoto's supervision hasn't been confirmed yet.

 

Regardless of the theory – whether Kishimoto always had everything planned out or if he changed his mind due to some editorial influence – the fact remains that he written and illustrated everything in the original Naruto manga.    Therefore, everything written in those chapters should be taken into account.

He handed it off to Ikemoto and hasn't taken it back despite it failings. It is canon for now and it happened because of nH/SS. Its failing are in part those pairing fault.

"Whatever Kishimoto makes is canon." Just not the thing you personally disagree with it seems. Or when its "who cares my pairing is canon."

Kishimoto should at least have shown a flashback to this scene at some point during 700 + 10 chapters  to demonstrate how iconic this moment was for Sakura. However, this never happened.

He was writing for a Japanese audience not an American one, where you have to beat a point every second in hopes they may get it. They rarely do. Hell, you ignore all the times Sasuke made clear he doesn't like Sakura.

I'm getting annoyed at all the pictures and having to keep requoting.

The Confession at the end of part one was suppose to be the end of SS. To show her love means nothing to Sasuke and he is ending his bond with her. Saying 'thank you' to a confession is a polite way of decline it in Japan. The reason confessions are a big thing in Japanese stories is they believe confession must be accepted or rejected on the spot. To not do so is considered very rude, and when you reject you do it politely by saying, "thank you."  It is not kishimoto's fault some fans refused to accept that and wanted them together. Went over the second enough times already on this thread alone.

"So, Sakura shouldn't get with Naruto out of guilt for how she treated him (agreed,) but Sasuke should get together with Sakura out of guilt for how he treated her?" That about sum up your stance on the pairings?

If SasuSaku happens in part 1 or early part 2, then yeah I can imagine NaruSaku wouldn't develop much of a bond. We can see their bond is non-existent post the ending and in Boruto as evidence for that.

Their connection and friendship for much of the series was on getting Sasuke back and as soon as Sasuke was back, they don't act much more than acquaintances. That's why I always thought the brother/sister arguments were weak arguments. I don't see one moment of them acting like best friends or brother/sister in Boruto.

Once you remove any notion of romance for Naruto and Sakura, then there is basically nothing left for their relationship for ikemoto or kishimoto to write about.

That's because executive/editorial mandate made it so they no longer had a bond. As Naruto and Sakura had gotten so close they would come off as more of a couple than the pairings that actually happen. Sakura was no longer a main character and was all but cut out of Team 7. Her only role of importance now is to be the mother of Sarada and she is only important as she is the most likely love interest of Boruto.

Which also weakens the IPs story. As restoring Team 7 was a major plot line in part two of Naruto if not the most important. Why should anyone care about the story if when they accomplish this goal the bond of team 7 ceases to exist?

It's true that Sasuke didn't give a damn about any fangirl, like Ino.

The conviviality on Team 7 played a key role in making Sakura stand out.

Eventually, Sasuke came to consider her an dear person to him and want to protect her.

Meanwhile, Sasuke made it clear Naruto became his best friend. Sakura's importance to him, however, remained open-ended. Was she just another best friend?

 

I'm not saying Sasuke will ask her out. never.

But it's possible that eventually, he will come to accept her feelings, if she were to grow even more in importance to him.

 

Just like he had no problem accepting her romantically at the end of the manga when he stopped to being obsessed about revenge and let his past go...

 What made her stand out from just another fangirl was chapter three where she disgusted him on a personal level with her comment on orphans.

"Sasuke saw Naruto as his best friend so he must have saw Sakura as his girlfriend." You are making an assumption and an assertion that is not supported anywhere in the manga.

Lets go to Sasuke leaving the village where Sakura pours her heart out and Sasuke make it clear how he feels about her.

To sum it up:

Sasuke: "I am leaving the village and abandoning everything for the sake of power so i can avenge my clan as that is most important to me."

Sakura: "Please stay out of the love you bear for me, remember when you complimented my forehead."

Sasuke: "I don't know what you are talking about, I don't love you, I see you as a teammate, and I am ending that bond here. Bye"

I talk about this last year in comparison to what they did with Nail. So I don't mind explaining it again. The tragedy of Sasuke leaving the village is that each of his teammates had the chance and could have convince him to remain in the village, but only Naruto was able to reach him at the point he had come too far to go back.

Sakura did have the chance to convince Sasuke as much as the rest of her teammates but the conversation showed how much the Forehead Compliment while it was prevented NS also damaged SS far worse. As Sakura always had a misunderstanding that Sasuke always had feelings towards her. So she never really got to know him or bond with him. So she tried to convince him with a love that wasn't there instead of any friendship that might have formed. Also as shown in 693, Sasuke picked up on the fact that Sakura had always assumed Sasuke had feelings for her when he never gave any indication of that in his mind, leading to a major factor in him disliking her and thinking she was delusional.

I don't think this is relevant. Sakura had several opportunities to ask about this moment, but never brought it up to Sasuke throughout Part 1.

 

When Sasuke left and she tried to stop him, it was the perfect chance to question him about the Forehead scene. But she remembers the later moment when he called her annoying because of her comment about loneliness.

 

When Sasuke returned, Sakura could have questioned him about this moment. But she preferred to ask if she could go with him. This led to the Forehead poke, which ironically, touched at the point of Sakura's insecurity.

 

And again, Sakura didn't relate or even remember the fake Sasuke complimenting her forehead at Chapter 3.

She did bring it up. He said he didn't remember. So she dropped it.

Sasuke doesn't really care about Sakura liking him because he has made it clear he doesn't like her that way.

She did remember the compliment that why she brought up the bench scene or do you really think she was remembering only when he called her annoying?

I believe the NaruSaku relationship would develop much slower or almost become nonexistent in Part 2, just as it was in Part 1 and the post-manga period.

 

What brought Sakura and Naruto closer together was their mutual desire to bring Sasuke back, along with all the drama that surrounded him + POAL. With Sasuke present, this desire that united them and the POAL simply dissipates.

 

Of course, Sakura would continue to support Naruto and his dream of becoming Hokage, as she did during the Chūnin Exam.

However,  things would dramatically change for NaruSaku relationship in Part 2. For example:

• Naruto would not have most of Sakura's attention in Part 2, as he would not be the only member of Team 7 close to her. Sasuke would be present too.
• Sakura would not have doubts about her feelings and would not be sad with a Sasuke who hasn't committed crimes.

Another important question: Would Sakura ever spontaneously confess her feelings to Naruto without the pressure from Sai about the POAL, and Sasuke in the village?

 

Probably not, while she would probably confess her feelings to Sasuke at some point, as she did twice in the canon.

Right, I am going to tell you a basic rule in the Guy Code that you clearly don't know about. "If one of your friends seriously likes a girl, even if she into you, you helped him out to see if can they work together; before you even try to go for her."

Men in the Audience! SOUND OFF:

As you said, Naruto is Sasuke best friend and clearly like Sakura while he doesn't. Team 7 are slowly growing closer with each other. In Part Two and even in part one, Naruto and Sakura naturally click even as just friends. What is preventing Sasuke from helping his best friend get with a girl who he likes and naturally clicks with? He doesn't like her and the longer they are on a team more chance he will just go. "Sakura maybe you should go on a date with Naruto, instead of keep bugging me for one. As I don't like you as wanting you as a girlfriend."

You also have Karin that may enter the village due to wanting to be with Sasuke. If she is discovered to be an Uzumaki she is Naruto's relative. While there is a rule to not date a friend's relative, especially without tell them or they are required to beat the kitten out of you while you take it. Naruto would probably want to help out his only living relative. Which leads to another if you do you treat them with the utmost respect and seriousness, or suffer a beating far worse than the dating one.

The majority of NaruSaku moments were directly influenced by Sasuke and POAL.

• The POAL revolved around Sasuke as a central character.
• Naruto's four-tailed transformation was triggered by Sasuke, causing guilt in Sakura because of the POAL.
• During their hospital visit, Naruto once again brings up Sasuke, mentioning their shared goal of catching up to him. This inspires Sakura to help Naruto later by feeding him.

• Naruto mentions POAL as a condition for confessing to Sakura.

• Finally, Sakura's confession, fueled by Sai's words about the POAL and Sasuke's transformation, was an attempt to free Naruto from the POAL.

In her confession to Naruto, Sakura cites Sasuke's aloofness and unavailability as justifications, contrasting them with Naruto.

 

This paints her confession to Naruto as a consolation prize, offered not out of genuine love, but because of the circumstances surrounding Sasuke and Sai's guilt trip about the POAL. 

 

The only genuine NaruSaku moments without Sasuke's name in the picture are: When Sakura considers giving up on the Chunin Exam to protect Naruto's dream.  In a  similar context to the CPR scene in the war, where Sakura saves Naruto with his Hokage dream in mind.

 

If Sasuke had returned to the village after killing Itachi without discovering the truth about the village and joined the Akatsuki, Sakura might not have had any trouble forgiving him and jumping into his arms  more easily than at the end of the manga. 

 

But let's set aside scenarios where Sasuke reciprocates Sakura's feelings  or accepts her confession at the end of Part 1. Imagine a scenario where Sasuke simply remains on Team 7 throughout Part 2 treating Sakura in the same way as part 1. Essentially, Part 2 without the drama of saving Sasuke or his descent into Darkness.

 

Interestingly, in this scenario, Sai and Yamato were not even introduced to Team 7. They were created only due to Sasuke's absence or to replace him. Karin also doesn't exist.  Sakura is the only girl Sasuke even interacts with.  Would Naruto and Sakura's relationship develop in the same way with Sasuke closer to Sakura in the village during Part 2 and without any POAL, with Sakura feeling no guilt towards Naruto?

There are moments where Naruto and Sakura bond that doesn't involve Sasuke... but you either dismiss or ignore them. So why bother bringing any of them up?

As for the moments that do involve Sasuke in some way. A major part of the story is the Bond of Team 7 a goal for the main cast is to bring Sasuke back to restore that bond. So they have to talk about bringing Sasuke back to the village.

Any scenario that Sasuke does not feel guilt for how he treated Sakura and needs to atone; he will not end up with her because he isn't romantically interested in her.

Yamato was brought in because of his Wood release. Sai was Danzo pushing one of his men onto the team. It is not unreasonable to assume they would be in Team 7 due to the Akatsuki and Naruto's increase use of Kurama's power. Karin meet Sasuke in the chunin exam and fell in love with him due to him saving her from a bear. He doesn't leave the village she might just join the village. As she joined Orochimaru to follow Sasuke.

...Wait. i forgot. She can't be in love with Sasuke or he could have feeling for her, because you don't identify with her.

Right. I'm going to address the "SS had a better chance than NS or was stronger than it in part one," argument. NS and SS were the same at the start of part one with an equal likelihood of happening. That is to say none. The two pairings 'mirrored' each other. How Sakura treated Naruto is how Sakura was treated by Sasuke.

Chapter 3: Sakura considered Naruto annoying for never leaving her alone so she could flirt with Sasuke. Sasuke thought Sakura was another annoying fangirl that won't leave him alone so he could train, but considered her personally annoying due to her orphan comments.

Before The Chunin exam. Sakura lectures Naruto that he shouldn't be trying to get a date with her and instead should train. Sasuke lectures Sakura that she should train instead of trying to get a date with him because she has fallen behind Naruto, the dead last of their class. 

Both also have something that prevents their love interest from dating them, The Forehead Compliment and Sasuke's desire for revenge.

The difference between the two is that Naruto trains and slowly improves himself in the eyes of Sakura, Sakura does not.

So by the end of part one, Sakura see Naruto as a teammate and friend she can put her faith in; while Sasuke see Sakura as just a teammate he is more than willing to abandon any bond he has with her for power.

Part Two when Naruto returns to the village it is made very clear he has become quite handsome. To the point Sakura both flirted with and was swooning over him till the sexy jutsu improvements were brought up. Sasuke has stop caring about Sakura so he doesn't care about how beautiful she had become.

Afterwards Naruto and Sakura were able to spend time together and bond. The original plan for the story was for Kakashi during the final battle to ask Sakura to think who she really loves. Then she realize that she at some point had fallen in love with Naruto. The truth about Forehead Compliment is more to make it plain Sasuke never had those type of feelings for Sakura. So she could move on from Sasuke without any lingering feelings.

I was following a pairing thread on Twitter and saw several fans mocking  NaruSaku because their relationship blossomed primarily due to Sasuke's absence.

 

Despite many NaruSaku fans hating Sasuke for being an obstacle to the couple and his return definitively crushing NS's chances.

Ironically, Sasuke was the character who helped NaruSaku the most. Not Sai, Yamato or Minato's comment about Kushina.

 

it was only during his absence that Sakura and Naruto started to grow closer, with the goal of bringing him back. The Promise of a Lifetime (POAL) was made, etc.

Along with his entire transformation into a major antagonist force trying to destroy the village, including trying to kill Sakura, which gave the NaruSaku fandom hope that Sakura would eventually abandon her feelings for him and fall for Naruto.

 

However, this wasn't meant to be. Sasuke returned to help during the war, was redeemed, apologized, and Sakura jumped into his arms, effectively ending NaruSaku.

 

Here's the question:

 

In a scenario where Sasuke stayed in the village and continued to develop his bond with Sakura without events like the Uchiha clan massacre, Orochimaru's cursed seal, Itachi's mind raping , or Tobi's revelation about the village and the Uchiha massacre.

Essentially, Part 2 without the drama of saving Sasuke and his descent into Darkness.

 

Would Sakura have still developed some kind of bond with Naruto, with Sasuke closer to her like in Part 1? Or is NaruSaku entirely dependent on Sasuke's absence and actions to change Sakura's feelings?

 

SasuSaku was a very strong couple in Part 1, while NS was almost nonexistent. It was only in Part 2 that NS started to gain traction in the story and by fandom due to Sasuke's absence and crimes.

Well, here is a question you should have been asking: "Why are they mocking a pairing that lost Ten years ago or never existed for Twenty-Five Years?" The answer is the same reason as, why most people will still talk about the Star Wars Prequels but not the Sequels? The Golden Era of Naruto was when NS was the official pairing is the one people still care about while the nH/SS-Boruto era that has came since is of lower forgettable quality.

NS chances were crushed because outside the story people were convincing Kishimoto to switch the Heroine to Hinata because they thought Sakura was too unpopular. Sasuke had very little to do with it beyond putting Sakura somewhere once she lost her original status. Sasuke's original existence, beyond his role as Naruto's rival, was to be a wedge between NS so they didn't get together till the ending. He existed so they would bond without getting together till the end.

...Naruto and Sakura were growing closer since the moment they became team members. Do you really believe there was no development between them at all in part one?! 

Your Question: If the massacre never happened Sasuke would likely want to marry an Uchiha born girl like his Father did and Brother would. To expand on this further. The uchiha before the massacre did married with in the clan when given the option. This was somewhat to keep the Sharingan within the clan. We know of only one half uchiha before the massacre Itachi's fiancé. Obito was an outcast so they didn't really care about him. Sasuke if he married outside of the clan; he would only choose a girl worthy of being brought into the clan to impress his parents. He would have written Sakura off long before they became teammates and it would not improve once they did. If she improved later on you have the problem of her already forming a bond with Naruto.

As for any scenarios with Sasuke beyond what I posted above. Sasuke only got together with Sakura because he felt guilty about how he treated her. That only happened after Naruto beat him up. That doesn't happen. No reflection. No getting together with Sakura out of guilt.

Naruto and Sakura were always developing a bond. He went from someone she openly hated to a friend she put her faith in by the end of part one. That bond didn't just form the second after Sasuke left.

Right. Let's get to it. Before anything else lets look at how Sasuke and Sakura got together.

He had just lost his arm, reflected on what he had been doing, and admitting defeat. When Sakura appears after some pondering he apologizes to her for how he behaved. Then he leaves for his wandering to find atonement and implies to start a relationship with her.

Sasuke felt sorry for how he treated Sakura, so he got together with her to make up for it. That doesn't mean he ever fell in love with her.

What happened after they got together? Well, he kept on wandering to the point he spent 12 years going out of his way to not see his wife or daughter. After he stopped doing that, while he cares for his daughter, he never mentions his wife Sakura. Seriously, after Kodaichi left she cease to exist in the manga.

Now. Lets look at Sasuke's thought and behavior around Sakura.

The Bench scene he chewed her out for her rude comment.

Before the Chunin exam, he chewed her out for focusing on trying to get a date with him, instead of training as she had fallen behind Naruto as far as he was concern.

Him leaving the village, he makes it clear, he doesn't have feeling for her, while he did enjoy the time he spent on team 7, she is not that important to him, and he only cares about revenge and is willing to abandon everything to get it.

After leaving the village he doesn't comment often on his feelings towards Sakura. However, both times he meets her he tries to kill her and people around note he has no hesitation in his attempts.

693. Kakashi asks why Sasuke mistreats Sakura so much when she loves him. Sasuke makes it clear he doesn't love her, doesn't understand why she loves him, he himself doesn't understand what she see in him to make her like him, and thinks she is just delusional.

So Sasuke doesn't hide the fact that he doesn't like Sakura and he thinks she should stop chasing after him. He doesn't say it all the time when they are teammates because its rude, but he will say his peace if he feels prompted. Once he leaves the village, he just stops caring about Sakura seeing her as nothing more than a deranged annoyance.

So how would if Sasuke didn't leave the village go? Well, they were only on an active team for a short amount of time before Sasuke left. The time between Sasuke leaving and the end of the War arc is about 3-4 years. While that may be three to four years to bond and fall in love...That is also, three to four years for Sasuke to get tired of constantly telling her, "leave me alone, I don't like you, and I don't want to date you." Till he finally snaps and ask her why she even likes him. She tells him about the bench scene. He tells her that it was Naruto.

Also Naruto held himself back for all those years due to his promise of a life time. No promise, means he is free to try and win Sakura's love.

The difference between Naruto and Sakura in this scenario. Is that Naruto will continue course of training and growing stronger. Sakura will likely languish as while she has the desire to grow stronger, she only got the drive after seeing Naruto injured trying to fulfill his promise to her. That doesn't happen, she likely won't go to Tsunade for training and languish in mediocrity. Which will keep making her look worse in Sasuke's eyes. Making it less likely for him to grow fond of her, but more disgusted with her.

So the answer is No. NS was suppose to happened but the pairing changed at the last second. Sasuke always dislike Sakura and didn't want together with her till a mandate order them to get together. Leaving or staying wouldn't have changed anything.

I'm not sure he even realizes that they did this with naruto

You may be right and it is always good to look at all possibilities. However, I lean more towards they do know, as even if he doesn't. SP's and Naruto's reputation in Japan is that it...was The King of International Sales. The most likely reason nH/SS happened was that what they thought the international fanbase wanted, while the domestic wanted NS. Here, he is saying ignore the international and just focus on the domestic fanbase.

So what do you think most of the Japanese anime/manga community would take from that?

Of course they do, that's why this statement is both ironic and hypocritical.  It's why they keep trying to bait old fans back with NaruSaku subtext in Boruto, or even why they had Naruto insult Hinata in an episode for choosing to fight beside him over protecting their children and even dedicate an episode to illustrate that there's little to no romance in their relationship. However, they're never going to outright admit that they made a poor decision (based on their own bias as well as their misread of the western audience investment in this ship) that drastically affected the series' quality, popularity and profitability.

I guess your are talking about the anime. The manga outside of Salad becoming all but the official love interest of Bolt hasn't do really anything NS like. Sakura has not appeared at all in part two so far.

Sunk Cost Fallacy.

https://boundinginto...asingly-boring/

"‘Naruto’ And ‘Bleach’ Anime Studio President Rejects Idea That Anime Should Conform To Western Standards: “If You Make Animation With That In Mind, It Will Become Increasingly Boring”

In adding his voice to the increasing number of Japanese creatives who have found themselves unhappy with the ever-growing demands that their works be altered in order to accommodate Western sociopolitical standards, anime production studio Pierrot Co. Ltd. President and CEO Michiyuki Honma has warned that, should his respective medium change its core identity in order to attract overseas audiences, the results will “become increasingly boring”.

Honma, who during his thus-far tenure at the studio has overseen the production of such anime series as Bleach/Bleach: Thousand Year-Blood War, Naruto/Naruto: Shippuden/Boruto: Naruto Next Generations, and Kingdom, offered his thoughts on this hot topic while speaking with Japanese entertainment news outlet Comic Natalie for their anime studio-staff centric interview series, Anime Studio Chronicle.

Huh. Well to be fair they are the perfect example how trying to appeal to a Western audience backfires.

Also 30% of their earnings are oversea meaning international sales. That means 70% of Naruto-Boruto earning's are from The Domestic Japanese Market. So when we see it doing bad (below average) over there, that is most of their earnings already.

Also SP hasn't released an anime movie since Boruto. So they haven't gotten any new movies that would eclipse it like other series have. http://www.narusaku....showtopic=16678

Another issue that Ikemoto has to deal with is the unpopularity of Nail/Kawaki.

In Part One, he was one of the most powerful and competent person in the main cast, with only Madoc and Bolt being able to come close to him. Completely outstripping the rest of the cast due to the favoritism Ikemoto bestowed upon him. As well as ultimately being the focus and core of the story Ikemoto was telling.

In Part Two, he is the biggest Jobber of the entire cast, possibly the worst I have ever seen in a story, constantly losing his fights and screwing everything up. It is even implied that some of the cast besides Bolt are stronger than him, at the very least Cups. As well as, instead of being the focus of the story who is making most of the decisions; it is more the cast is working around him. So he doesn't interfere and make everything worse.

Now you could justify it in story. His decline in power is because unlike everyone else, he doesn't have a dedicated mentor to train him. So while he didn't stagnate entirely, he didn't improve as fast as the rest of the cast. For his decline in competence, it is because of the guilt and stress of blaming Bolt for Naruto's "death," trying to kill him to cover it up, and an obsession with destroying the Otsutsuki within him to justify his actions.

But It is more likely, that during the break between part one and two. They went through the data and realize Kawaki was too unpopular to have such importance in the manga. So his importance in the story has been reduced drastically. So what happened to Sakura but this time it is the actual data instead of skewed numbers to make Hinata the heroine. Oh, the irony. 

Damn, telegraphed since the chapter of "death". So much for so little...

I think that it was an option but wasn't planned and they were forced to add it to give the daughter powers. So she could fight and be a main character. Of course whether I am right or wrong, this is very by the numbers and generic.
 
To make my thoughts on this a bit clearer. "Do you believe they planned to give the daughter Kurama when they killed him?" That would require Ikemoto to care about another Next Generation character Kishimoto made, besides Bolt, enough to want to do a story with them.
 
Part Two has been Ikemoto addressing problems people had with part one to appease his bosses. One of those being that most of the casts' presence in the manga has been nonexistent.
 
For example, remember Neo-team 7 members Cups, Salad, and Konohamaru barely existed in part one and they were suppose to be part of the main cast along with Bolt and Nail. Konohamaru barely existed, even before Nail appeared, that it would be easy to forget, that he is suppose to be the Team Captain and Jonin Sensei. Therefore, the main cast main teacher and adult role model. Now, he may be involved only because Moegi has been absorbed and one of the tree people wants to eat him. Cups pretty much just hanged around Salad and they barely even talked about let alone developed his story with his "Sun" Bolt; until part two. For Salad, they seemed to actively want her to have nothing to do in the story till the very end of part one, where she is now in the lead to be Bolt's love interest. 
 
So going off that. She was at best intended to be Moe's civilian love interest, before the executives had enough.
 

Sorry wasn't sure anyone was going to comment

Honestly, it not much of a problem one could already guess it would happen from last chapter and once you talked about spoilers (which means it was something that either interested or pissed off people enough to talk about.) It was clear what it was. I more just reminding of my policy of not looking at spoilers till the summary so it is an honest reaction and thought at the time. Then edit to fix mistakes. I needed to do something yesterday so I had to cut the ending short and came back to it.

Well Blue, I already guess that when you mentioned the spoilers two days early. Its not like it hard to guess...just kind of annoying. As it is the predictable outcome. No Dragon Ball Super this month. must have went on hiatus while deciding if they should continue it or not.

Summary Time: Chapter 8(9). Nine Tails...is it spoilers if they are not even trying to hide it?

Cover page is Neo-Ino-Shika-Cho...my god, how did they mess this up. Shikamaru's son is suppose to have his mother's eyes, so he isn't just a clone of his father. God, I think Fat Filler has won the worst outfit competition.

Tree-Jenga continues where we last left off surprised that they found the daughter instead of Naruto. Oh, Neo-Ino-Shika-Cho are there too. Tree-Jenga pulls out a book to identify Shikamaru's Son. They chat. Then Tree-Jenga says that Naruto isn't in the village there is only the nine tails' chakra coming from the girl. Tree-Jenga summons tree roots to absorb the daughter just like Sasuke and Moegi...and Shikamaru's son is able to use his shadow powers to free her by pulling the roots off her after they had already captured her...why haven't they tried releasing the other people that have been caught, or is this some contrivance that he was able to release her before she was absorbed? Tree-Jenga compliments the teamwork of Neo-Team 10 as they worked to rescue the daughter. So as he has part of Jenga of the Nice Manners' personality he decides to warn the team that they only plan to eat her but if they continue to interfere, they are on the menu too. Son contacts his father...I am so sick of this constant sensor division telepathic link and the fact that it has become such a major part of the story now.

God the daughter looks awful. She questions why they are going after her...well, she is about as smart as both her parents as Tree-Jenga has said over and over again, that they are after the Nine Tails' chakra in her.

Madoc tries to wake up Nail, and sees Tree-Jenga on the monitor.

Bolt is with Clone Jiraiya....honestly, I question why I have to add that detail to the nickname, at this point most of the cast are just clones of the old cast, even the villains. Clone Jiraiya informs Bolt that his toads see the tree-people in the village...he is actually seeing through his toads through some shared vision...sigh, did Jiraiya even have a power like that? I pretty sure the Toad Elders would have mentioned that the Rinnegan is similar to one of their abilities. Clone Jiraiya tells Bolt to fly to the "Triangles" does anyone know that location in the village?

More back and forth between Tree-Jenga and Shikamaru's Son and he reiterates that he is going to eat her.

Clone Jiraiya sends a toad to Shikamaru.

Nail finally wakes up and senses Bolt...please be smart enough to do enemy of my enemy against the tree people...Nope. He tracks down Bolt and they fight. Nail is no match for Bolt, I swear Nail has been beaten by everyone he tries to fight in like seven chapter out of nine so far, but Bolt is forced to flee because he can't control his karma when nail activates his.

Tree-Jenga fires off a Biju ball. Sarada and the Clone are going to join the fight...WHERE ARE THE ADULTS!?!?! One of the problems story wise with having every single fight in the village is the longer its drawn out the less sense it makes for more adults not to come in and join the fight. Where is Sakura? Where is Lee? Sai? Shino? Konohamaru? Kiba? Chouji? Temari? Are Shikamaru and Ino the only two adults left in the village? Not only that but these Trees just walked into the village and were met by squads of ninja. There should never been a stop to having more leaf village ninja fighting them because, they know where they are. From what I recall from the chunin exam, the plan when the village is attacked is first escort the civilians to safety, then counterattack. They tried to do that during the Pein attack, he just overwhelmed them. Here, you see civilians just milling around. From what I recall, Naruto tended to avoid having big fights in the village as shown and explain during the Itachi-Kisame vs The Teams Jounin-Sensei. That it is a bad idea to have a long drawn out fight in the village as more and more powerful ninja will sense the fight and come to help their fellow villagers. Here, in the sequel, almost every fight is a fight within the village. It increasingly makes the story unrealistic as the thought pulls you out of the story. As it reinforce the fact that the plot doesn't make sense and is built on contrivances.

Neo-Ino-Shika-Cho flees with the daughter...and at the end of the chapter the daughter is brought into her mental world to have a talk with a tiny Kurama....so lets start with something simple, was this planned all along? I suspect, no. This was not planned all along this was added to allow the daughter to be involved in the story, by giving her a super mode and skill sets so she can join in on the fights from now on...I am already resigning myself to that. However, it is reasonable enough through contrivance for people to think it was. Since, it can be seen as a kill and then later revive a character for two ratings boost.

So now the two problems with this revival and its cause.

We were informed in Naruto that when a Jinchuriki dies the tail beast that resides with in them would also die, but would reform itself over time. This happened to the Three Tails Isobu when Rin died. Kurama's baryon mode or Suicide Nuke Mode as I like to call it; anyways it was implied it was different in that it would burn through all the Biju's Chakra and cause them to permanently die. Now next chapter they are going to probably do everything to try and dismiss or justify this. But for the moment. If it doesn't kill the biju and allows them to escape their host without killing them either, why didn't the tailed beast use it in the century they were used as weapons by the villages? Just tell/trick their host about this super mode then go into hiding while they assume the tailed beast is dead. Now they are probably going to make some excuse, that he would have died but their was traces of his chakra in the daughter, and it allowed him to reform. Which leads to another question, why didn't he also reform in Bolt? This also leads to a problem as Naruto was suppose to be The Last Jinchuriki, now Kurama will carry on through his lineage as a convenient super mode for all time. Won't the other villages just be so happy to hear that?

Second this is clearly and ordered over reaction to the over focus on Bolt and Nail in part one. In Part one, incase anyone forgot, it was pretty much Bolt and Ikemoto's new characters, which were mostly villains, that were important. Which means it was pretty much just Nail and bolt for the main cast. The rest of the cast as in the old cast from Naruto and the next generation which are the side characters are almost completely ignored. Not help that neither Bolt or Nail are fan favorites, in fact they are largely disliked, that could justify the over focus on them. So part two Ikemoto was order to focus on more characters. So far it seems to be Bolt, Nail, Salad, Cups, Hime, Moe, Daughter. Fat Filler, Blond Sai, Shikamaru's Son, Konohamaru, Clone Jiraiya, Shikamaru and Ino. 14 characters at the moment, that is too many especially given Ikemoto's writing ability, and the fact that Part two may only have 40 chapters. Naruto main cast was normally 4 Characters: Naruto, Sasuke, Sakura and Kakashi, and Kishimoto struggled with even that.

https://myanimelist....514#msg70751514

gotta love how the minato manga brings us ns fans out of the woodwork

...Again, Other because you watched it, you assume Kishimoto must have watched it, and been inspired by it. When there has never been mentioned of it in any interview. 

What has been mentioned is Slam Dunk, (and how it inspired the Naruto-Sakura-Sasuke dynamic,) which I assume you haven't read/watch.

Other there is a difference between speculating that Kishimoto may have been inspired by something and declaring it to be true. There is no evidence of him being inspired by that dragon quest anime, there is of him being inspired by Slam Dunk.

Had internet problems.

Read the DragonBall Super Chapter. You know if they ended it right here due to Toriyama's death this is a decent ending. The Saiyans are all training together, the Red Ribbon Army stop being a threat, and Goku started to bond with Pan. You could go to the final chapter from here with only a few questions.

A Moment of Silence for the passing of a great artist.

...Now for a story with nothing decent in it.

Summary Time: Chapter 8(8). It doesn't matter...never has there been a title that sums up the entire story more than this.

Cover Page is Tree-Jenga...no, I am not going to bother remembering its name, because i don't remember what it was anyways.

Guh. Bolt declares to Cups that, he is "Cups' Sun and to come find him at anytime"...God, that was as lame as it was corny. It is also not helping as that could be an awful pick up line. Oh and it is made worse by Hime watching and declaring "that it was like too cool. oh my gosh." What worse about an attempted cool moment falling flat is the writer praising themselves over it. Also, this is making my prediction that Hime will fall for Bolt, from the end of part one, more predictable than the Sun rising in the East tomorrow. Nail is behind her wondering why it is taking so long to track Bolt. Oh Mustard is still here, don't know where she has been for the last eight chapters, and she is still worshipping Hime. Oh apparently Hime still lives in the villa outside of the village.

Oh Fucking Finally! Someone tells Shikamaru about the Tree People. Nail decides to mental contact Shikamaru through the sensory division, guess that's their job now to be the psychic phone company. Shikamaru worries about Nail catching onto his conversation with Bolt but Ino says she can keep them separate. Bolt leaves and Nail realizes Bolt left before he could sense him...somehow. I think the story wants this to be the start of him suspecting Shikamaru or someone is working with Bolt.

Cups goes to the villa and is surprised to see Hime there. They and Moe have a conversation about how Nail doesn't care about him. Cups also thanks Hime for allowing him to experience the emotion love. That and his doubts with Nail have lead him to decided to seek self affirmation instead of seeking it from others. And Hime makes it clear he loves "Nail"...god this really is gayer than Naruto; back then they always hid behind brotherly feelings but this is just full out admission.

Oh there had been this random nudist running around so Tree-Jenga and Tree-Sasuke use it to transport to the village to eat Naruto. They can feel him...damn it Sasuke. Thankfully they are sensed and a whole bunch of Mooks come out to greet them. Oh Hime informs Shikamaru what they are and apologizes for not telling him sooner...guess people in Japan were pointing that stupidity out; you know because one of the targets is herself. Tree-Jenga walks into a book story and as a joke Tree-Sasuke ask if Naruto is in there. Nail finds them. Tree- Jenga senses the tailed beast Chakra within Naruto to locate him, but instead they find the daughter...the daughter has inherited both the byakugan from her mother and the nine tails' chakra from Naruto...sigh

Crimson Fox, the assistant is Ikemoto that "volunteered" to work on the Boruto manga, which is a massive failure. However he has been dealing with a burden that should have been Kishi's for the past ten years. To openly stab him in the back would pretty much blacklist him from the industry as no one would be able to trust working for him. If there is to be a rewrite of the ending it has to be handled carefully. Granted I get the increasing feeling that the various companies are tired of Boruto's poor performance.

For stories it always best to go for a simple answer only going more elaborate when the simple doesn't fit.

No matter what it quite clear that Kishimoto didn't really look into his fanbase, more than he was told by others, till after the ending.

Just so everyone understands Slam Dunk is considered THE SHOUNEN SPORTS MANGA. The one that set the standard that all sports manga follow after. It also still one of the most profitable manga ever and I think still in the top ten. It was huge in the 90s.

Phantom/Kagomaru, people don't like the rug pull out from under them. If they get invested in a story they want a satisfying pay off. Part of that for romance if a manga spend years building up a couple they expect them to get together. That not happening greatly annoys the sexually frustrated Japanese.

Other, Kishimoto has never mentioned the Dragon Quest anime you watched as his primary inspiration for Naruto in any interview. He has mentioned that the NartuoXSasukeXSakura dynamics were based off of Slam Dunk. Which I assume you have not watch/read. Hanamichi Sakuragi was a dumb punk that falls in love with Haruko Akagi an avid basketball fan that has a crush on the ace's of her high school's basketball team the gifted Kaeda Rukawa. To win her affection Sakuragi joins the team and is rivals with Rukawa. In Slam Dunk, none of them end up together at the end. Rukawa was never interested in Akagi, and Sakuragi eventually became more interested in focusing on basketball. So if Haruko got together with Sakuragi, She would have been Haruko Sakuragi. Haruko Sakuragi. Haruno, Sakura. Sakura Haruno.

Crimson Fox, it is clear that you have given a lot of time to thinking deeply into why the ending happen, and you hope that Kishimoto's reasonings were just as deep to justify your contemplations.

The simple truth is this. Kishimoto did not have any long term story with tons of intricacies. His story is quite simple. For most of the characters of Naruto, unless they managed to hold his interest, their initial story was all they were going to get. 

For Sakura that means, near the end of the manga she would discover that Naruto was the one that gave her the forehead comment and fall in love with him. Of course plans change, as there was a change in how girls are portrayed in shounen, going from rarely fighting and mainly just hit the main character comically, to can and will fight while still hitting the main character comically, but that meant Kishimoto never really knew what to do with her beyond that. As he never fully understood the change nor embraced it.

Yahagi was Kishimoto's editor until right before the Pein arc. He was his editor for about 10 years when the average is 2. After Yahagi, Kishimoto went through 14 different editors in 5 years. Rumors have it that after Yahagi his next editor was a big fan of Hinata even wanting her to become the love interest/heroine and was the one pushing her to have the scenes she got in the Pein arc.

You seem to think that just because they didn't get together after the Rescue Gaara arc that Kishimoto abandoned it right then and there. When again, it was more him wanting them to get together at the end of the manga. If they did end the pairing at that arc. Why did Sakura have the moment when Naruto was in 4-tails? Why did she try to feed him ramen after the Shikamaru arc? Why she hug him after Pein? Why did she keep having scenes like that till near the end of the manga? The answer is again, they were suppose to get together until Kishimoto was 'convinced' to change it at the last minute.

Sakura is Kishimoto's type. He married a woman that everyone says is very like Sakura.

Kishimoto has said multiple times he does not get the appeal of Hinata, but went with her because he was told she was what the fans wanted. He understand why people like SS and thinks it's cliche. That might have changed after seeing how far Naruto-Boruto has fallen, but he can't do anything right now without it look like he is stabbing his former assistant in the back.

As for the Japanese fanbase...what has happened to Star Wars is a good analogue. Naruto's manga average sale was 3.47 million. Boruto averages out at around 100k. The SS manga got about 50K. Most of the Japanese fanbase either understand that the ending was a move to appease the Western Fanbase, or just assume it was his intention. Either way most have moved on with only nH and SS really staying around, with SS being the larger one by far.

@Bail I know it wasn't the first one, but it's the first one that I've heard about actually being liked by people.

 

That is true the quality in the west as I said really took a massive nosedive that even something mediocre is viewed as good.

 

Imagine people liking a woman for looking like a woman, and not a man. What a world we live in.

 

The Naruto movie I just find it too late and not what we or "Naruto" needed. It just feels like once again them reading the room wrong and not bothering to listen.

 

The last part, I don't even know what to say dude. In a world of DEI and ESG what you said fits like a glove. And it's likely.

 

 

@Blue So it does look like they actually did something well. Again I've only heard from people who didn't follow the manga and also got tired of the decline in stories in these past years in entertainment.

Just making sure. It is the only one they have done that hasn't bombed.

The problem is that the decline is somewhat intentional and somewhat going too far by accident.

BlackRock and Vanguard are two major investment companies. One of their owners has said multiple times that he wants to control the media people view, so he can change their world views; into what he wants it to be. Western Media Companies go along with it because by this point they are full of useless risk-averse executives without an ounce of creativity, and the investment companies are offering guaranteed money for any project they agree with. They hire non-straight white male people regardless of skill, talent, or experience maybe worse in spite of a lack of it; to produce media for "the modern audience." Of course they are informed they have only been hired because they are not straight white males, and just to produce anything. So they barely put any effort into it or lack the talent, skill, or experience to make anything good. Often times this so call "modern audience" is just themselves. 

In short. The investment company just gives them the money, the company spends the money while not bothering with any quality control, and the staff half ass it. So they produce products no one wants beyond themselves. This 'worked' for awhile, when the economy was good, but now its collapsing and the investment company can't give the media companies enough money to say afloat.

The thing is just because they produce something to lower the standards of the customers. Doesn't mean everyone lowers their standards and blindly consume their product. The customer may just refuse to buy and take their money elsewhere. While also being happy when another comes along and respect them by giving them what they want.

For an example. One of the things they want to change is the standards of beauty. They think the current media makes women too unrealistically beautiful and wants to make them more "realistic." How the West goes about it in video games is taking a model based on a real woman and make the character deliberately ugly. People are able to both question & criticize this by just finding a photo of the model they uglified. When they were just suppose to accept the character as what someone actually looks like, and suppose to consider beautiful.

One of the hot games coming out is Stellar Blade. Which has an attractive woman in a tight cyber-suit. People including Western game developers accuse it of being sexist and the female character being obviously fake. The Korean developers show that the model is mostly one to one between the real life model and the character model.

Now onto Naruto. This Lionsgate movie was 'started' ten years ago. Nothing happened till now, because of the collapse of Naruto's popularity after the ending; until One Piece LA happened. Then likely the narrative of, "hey, One Piece was this obscure anime no one knew about and look how successful it adaptation was. What if we do a live action of Naruto the King of International sales for anime?" Nos, you said most of the people you know that keep talking about One Piece weren't fans of the anime or manga. Why can't the same happen for Naruto? Now will it work?...who knows.

One Piece was not the first live action anime adaption Netflix done, just the first one that was successful.

Both. One piece has a good story, and the writing quality in the West has decline so much that people become overjoyed at something that could be even average.

Lets see FF7 gotten a lot of buzz this past week or so. Why? They had a trailer that showed Tifa pretty and in an appealing swimsuit. People are so used to female characters being ugly and frumpy at the best of time, gamers were overjoyed. 

As for why they are doing this. Naruto was huge a decade ago. They probably hope the movie could revitalize viewership and interest. Will it? Who knows but doubtful. Naruto has more problems than just its end pairings. Naruto's obsession with Sasuke, his eventual lack of growth, his quest to become hokage becomes forgotten about, and so on.

It depends what they want to do with it. if they want to do a "Naruto Universe," they will probably start from the beginning. If it just one movie, it will probably be the most popular arc or just some original story that is a weird amalgamation of Naruto. Or it will just be Naruto in name only to get people in seats. 

Still the most likely out come is this: Imagine a gay transgender Steve Urkel chasing after Edward Cullen, when he not constantly moaning about how oppressed he is, while Ken Watanabe playing Kakashi keeps pulling his mask down to show his face every five seconds, and  Awkwafina playing Sakura will constantly quip with a smug look on her face as well as she will on social media declare that all fans of Naruto are sexist that shouldn't complain about anything as well as saying they shouldn't watch it.

Looks like with have an actual update on the live action naruto movie in that the guy who did shang chi is do it https://www.google.c...1235833511/amp/

...So the guy that did that Marvel movie that was a love letter to China, which was largely considered average/mediocre and forgettable. Well, the cast might actually be/have Asians, instead of vaguely ethnic brown people. So will awkwafina be playing Sakura or Hinata? Since, she is the young Asian actress/singer/comedian they keep shoving into everything.

Since, I know nothing else about the guy. I assume Naruto will be remade, "for modern audiences," and it will at best be average and forgettable.

The thing with Naruto's male friendship being seen as gay was more due to yaoi shipping googles, when you take a step back, and just look at it; most just come off as male friendship.

Here, they can say "bro" all they want. All I was thinking while reading this was "dear god just have Bolt, Cups, and Nail make out already so we can move this plot along."

Oh the Dragon Ball Super chapter was Gohan verse Goku... somewhat.

Summary Time: Chapter (8)7. The Whereabouts of The Sun. Incase people forgot that is what Cups consider Bolt and constantly calls him...Yes, people from what I understand do think Boruto/Mitsuki are a better pairing.

Cover page is Cups with a snake design as the background. Right, his design is the best of the worst, but it still very generic.

Cups goes on about his weird Sun & Moon bit...Oh wait he still thinks Nail is his sun and isn't questioning it...my mistake. How obsessed was he with Bolt beforehand? He barely existed in the first part, so it was hard to tell. Granted it was pretty much his only personality trait other than being Snake Sai. Cups decided to knock Nail out because, he assume since Bolt can defeat Punk, he must be stronger than Nail is right now. Granted while Nail has never been that impressive, none of the the characters have been in this manga, but I also expect some kitten power up at some point. He also say he can't go all out without asking Nail/Bolt if he is around.

The fight...eh. Both of them can use lighting elemental release. Bolt eventually wins by putting his sword near Cups' neck. Cups tell him to get it over with. Bolt says he can feels Cups' faith in Nail is wavering. While they are talking Shikamaru ask Ino if she can extent the telepathic link to Cups so he can explain what is going on...no, wait, he wants to hear both sides of this very gay conversation. Ino says it is too risky. So its up to Bolt to convince Cups. The very gay conversation about being Cups' sun continues, Bolt says he can shine on his own, and reveals his father is alive to all three.

Nail wakes up.

Shikamaru has a conversation with Bolt telling him everything...Ok, this is stupid. So, apparently, if I am reading this right, part of Omnipotence's power is even if you learn about it, it won't ever stick, and it knowledge will slowly fade...its not said but I assume without constant reinforcing of the fact. What kitten to keep this stupid plot line going, and again there is physical evidences. Which they are still pretending doesn't exist. Again, to keep this going. This also means Bolt will have convince them all again over and over. And may have had to do so before already. Oh. And he didn't tell them about the tree-people. Just about his feelings towards Nail.

Now the tree-people are reading. And feel the books they have aren't answering the question they have. They decided to go eat Naruto. Damn it, Sasuke.

I think you need some deaths in for some suspense otherwise the conflict wouldn't look threatening. Heck it could even just be some recurring minor characters like those minor leaf chunin or jonin we see, some of the relatives like hiashi dying to protect neji and hinata or at least maybe knowing because he is old. As for the case with guy would of served the mentor death for Lee to grow and frankly naruto nre healing power made sakura look irrelevant for alot of people.

The problem with the War arc isn't a lack of death, its the lack of meaning. Who cares if a character lives or dies if they do not matter in the story?

From what I recall didn't the manga say like 50,000 ninja died during the war. Did those deaths make the story more meaningful, threatening, realistic, and so on? No? That is because, those death's didn't matter. A big problem in Naruto is a lot of the characters (even fan favorites) do not matter. You can kill off 99% of the cast if you want and it won't affect the story that much because they are just that unimportant.

So If I were to change something about the war arc, it wouldn't be to have more characters die. Its to do what I posted above; to have the cast have their final trials to show their growth and what they are going to do after the story is over.

So no deaths in the war, including might guy?

Yes. For Guy he lived to show off Naruto's new power he got from the sage. OK.

Now what you are suggesting. Instead he died. OK. Its doesn't change that much in the story. Even the sequel. I guess people will call it deep meaningful realistic some other buzz word, that he died after giving his all fighting Madara but he was done either way in his involvement in the story. So his life and death is an unimportant coin flip by that point.

The problem with the War arc isn't the lack of death; its that it is largely pointless filler fights. The war again should have been the final trial for the cast; strengthens their resolve to do whatever they are going to to after the story. The problem is the cast is so underutilized and underdeveloped it didn't happen, but it also doesn't matter if they lived or die because they don't have much of an impact on the story either way.

Neji's death matters because was one of the few characters with a story and his death allowed his intended fiancé to latch on to the only other story she had; her feelings towards the main character.

I meant who should have died in the war in general, not only among the k11

And again for a third time, none. They all should had an individual reform that they wanted to work on to change the ninja system. Kishimoto didn't develop them, so most never really had any reforms they wanted to work on. So the ending and the sequel had to scramble to give some for them to do. But that failure doesn't mean the cast needs to die.

A character journey's end does not only mean the only path is their death. It can just be the completion of a goal.

Again, as Nos said. The thing is the none of the K11 should have died during the war arc. The war arc should have been the cast final challenge that strengthen their resolve to go about their individual reforms. The problem is they are so underdeveloped and underutilized that it doesn't happen. So, the War arc is largely filler to pad out the manga's length.

Here is an obvious example of what should have happen with Neji. Hinata's and Neji's fathers fight it out. Hinata's father loses to his brother due to some reason. Neji and Hinata step in. Neji shows off moves that are only taught to the clan's heir. His father realizes that his brother is grooming his son to be the next clan head by marrying Hinata. After he is defeated and is being seal away. His brother, son and future daughter in law all show their resolve to reform the clan. Yes, it makes clear by this point Hinata should have moved on from Naruto. He thanks and forgives his brother, apologizes to Hinata, and gives some fatherly advice to Neji; all the while lamenting he won't be able to go to their wedding but he will be watching and always be with them.

Here is one for Sakura. She fights Naurto's grandmother, that as a joke looks exactly like a mature version of his sexy jutsu minus the whiskers marks. This leads into two jokes during the fight one, Sakura constantly thinking about how she will never let Naruto use that jutsu again because it will embarrass their...I mean his daughters and two, how there is no way she is Naruto's grandmother as that would make the Fourth his father and Naruto would have told her about something that big. Grandma Namikaze didn't approve of Minato and Kushina and hopes they didn't get together before she died young; when Sakura finally just asks if Minato knew any girl from the Uzumaki clan. Which annoys Sakura, causing her to fight harder to defend her man...wait not man; she meant friend, just friends. When she is defeated and being sealed away Naruto comes in, she instantly realizes that he is her grandson, and through some quick banter between him and Sakura realizes she is her future granddaughter in law even if Sakura won't admit it yet.