54175 replies to this topic

[sushi.]

We wouldn't. ^

[lupina]

Yeah... not that he only learned about shadow clones much later, from a ninja scrool that he stole from 3rd Hokage in manga... 

 

Wasn't that the Kage Bunshin No Jutsu? 

Bunshin no Jutsu (the one they learn at the academy) was a different one, if I can recall correctly.

 

Edit: Never mind. In "The Last" he really used Kage Bunshin No Jutsu. Lol. They really had no idea what they have been doing here ... 

Edited by lupina, 29 September 2017 - 06:03 PM.

[Kagomaru]

 

Wasn't that the Kage Bunshin No Jutsu? 

Bunshin no Jutsu (the one they learn at the academy) was a different one, if I can recall correctly.

Yeah, Bunshin no Jutsu were simply illusions with no physical substance.

[ThroughWithLove]

 By all means platonic love fits, as long as you correctly understand the "until now", and -do not- be silly and assume it stops at 700. So -still-, neither A nor B. Clear now?

 

It stopping at 700 is common sense actually since the databook was released a day before chapter 700 came out, but it doesn't matter. We can have it stop at whatever point of time you want it to stop. The question still remains the same: Either you think Naruto's platonic relationship with Sakura came to a close at some point PERIOD or you're giving the databook the middle finger. Which is it?

 

 

Working backwards on the rest...your panel proves my point? Are we agreement on it or...?

 

Wait . . . so Sakura loved Sasuke as a child, had a crush on him as an adult according to the scan I posted with suki being used to highlight what she and Karin feel for Sasuke, and then fell in love with him again at some arbitrary point afterwards. Huh. Okay.

 

 

Is that your yearbook photo? 

 

 

 

What needs clarification? I'm pretty sure I answered the question on Naruto's statement, specifically to that question before. What was confusing about it? My response would just be a copy-paste.

 

Concession accepted.

 

 

Naruto essentially says there is no worth to confessing when he has not fulfilled a promise, but the desire to bring Sasuke back is not connected to this promise. Sai asks why you do not say something, that is the response. There is your why. 

 

 

Once more: What does the promise remotely have to do with him telling Sakura how he feels Mrs. "The promise being a romantic thing has been invalidated?" Why mention it if it has nothing to do with his feelings for Sakura? You will never answer the question because even a human pretzel has its limits.

 

 

Is the mockery of Bizzaro Analyzer concession by non-argument?

 

It's mockery and a demonstration that anybody can say something is true because they say so. You have shown us nothing that would make crush any more valid than "deranged obsession with beating Sasuke." A deranged obsession with beating Sasuke is not true love as is the case for Hinata. Works just fine.

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 29 September 2017 - 06:13 PM.

[Yyubie]

The writer of the last think that the Main Protagonist / Naruto should awaken his hidden power because he needs to protect hinata , like in most generic love story , the MC got attack and lose and then the damsel in distress come to rescue but got beaten and then MC awaken his hidden power to protect her.

 

The problem with this is , it's contradicting what already establish in the manga. Shadow Clone or Kagebunshin no Jutsu is not something that can be done with hardwork or the power of anger/friendship or love or power of miracle or whatever , because it's require the user to know and form the right SEAL with hands , second this technique is FORBIDDEN jutsu like Lee / Gai eight gate you need someone to teach you or read the book/scroll.

 

So the writer of this movie clearly don't know what he was doing that's why everything looks like cheap retcon garbage , every logic toss out of the window , the character turn into a piece of poo , the MC turn into scumbag , and what's left of it is to make Hinata get what ever she wants.

[Kagomaru]

The writer of the last think that the Main Protagonist / Naruto should awaken his hidden power because he needs to protect hinata , like in most generic love story , the MC got attack and lose and then the damsel in distress come to rescue but got beaten and then MC awaken his hidden power to protect her.

 

The problem with this is , it's contradicting what already establish in the manga. Shadow Clone or Kagebunshin no Jutsu is not something that can be done with hardwork or the power of anger/friendship or love or power of miracle or whatever , because it's require the user to know and form the right SEAL with hands , second this technique is FORBIDDEN jutsu like Lee / Gai eight gate you need someone to teach you or read the book/scroll.

 

So the writer of this movie clearly don't know what he was doing that's why everything looks like cheap retcon garbage , every logic toss out of the window , the character turn into a piece of poo , the MC turn into scumbag , and what's left of it is to make Hinata get what ever she wants.

Then you have the animation studio setting up sock puppet accounts and deleting negative reviews from the fans/critics of the manga to cover for the director's incompetence.   I doubt anyone in Japan will want to see an anime written by him again.

[ThroughWithLove]

Question has been answered. Answer remains the same. 

 

Seems the human pretzel routine is over. Concession accepted.

 

I wish. And it sees used to have a crush, by your own source, which is true, it became more then that. 

 

So . . .kid Sakura had a crush, fell in love at the points Naruto was recalling in his flashback, had a crush once again around the time Karin was introduced into the story and then fell right back in love . . . because you like being a pretzel?

 

Look, it's real easy: I made a mistake. Suki does not mean crush. Both Karin and Sakura loved Sasuke and yeah, earlier material definitely indicates that Naruto loved Sakura, but I don't think it matters. In the end, Naruto chose Hinata and Sakura chose Sasuke; although there are some inconsistencies here and there, I'm fine with how the story turned out. Naruto is flawed manga and Kishimoto is a flawed author, but I didn't mind the ending and definitely believe there was enough material there for the author to go the route he decided on.

 

 

Question has been answered. 

 

 

For clarification, he could tell Sakura how he feels anytime, irregardless of the question, strictly speaking. These are logically separate things.My answer should answer the rest sufficiently. I am fine repeating Question has been answered. multiple times to your ear's content. 

 

 

Of course he could tell Sakura how he feels anytime, but he doesn't and tells us why he doesn't. So lets make it so simple that even a caveman can provide answer.

 

X = Naruto's feelings

Y = The promise he made to Sakura.

 

Sai has asked Naruto why he has not told Sakura about X. Naruto brings up Y. Why is Naruto bringing up Y in response to being questioned about X if X has nothing to do with Y?

 

 

 

 

So you agree then that the Last does not retcon anything? Because that is the explanation of the crush from Sakura's words, in respectably far less twisted melodramatic words, which is what the quantification differentiation is explaining.  

 

 

Because you say it is. I gave you a different set of words to sub in place of crush in terms of the "I'm right because I say I'm right" approach. You've given us zero evidence or logic to support this "crush" mindset. It being a crush is your opinion; it being a crush is head-canon.

 

 

 

 

I.E., a child starved of acknowledgement wants Sakura to crave his acknowledgement instead of Sasuke's, thus his pursuit of a girl he also thinks he is cute. This is supported by chapter 3. 

 

 

Chapter 3 says nothing about him wanting Sakura to "crave his acknowledgment instead of Sasuke's" What the hell does that even mean? Seriously, what in the world are you talking about? 

 

Most people's interpretations of the series are a result of what is established in the story, but for you, what gets established in the story mostly seems to be result of your interpretations. The databook says Naruto loved Sakura you say? Well that must mean the love was a crush! The databook uses the same word to describe Sakura and Karin's feelings for Sasuke? Welll then they both must've had a crush on him even as adults! The Last movie says Naruto only said he loved Sakura because he was competing with Sasuke? Well that must've meant he did in fact love Sakura, but only on a shallow crush level! Naruto brings up his failure to keep his promise when Sai asks him why he hasn't told Sakura how he feels? Well Naruto must've been shooting the breeze or something as the two things have nothing to do with each other! 

 

Yeah . . . you're more of a Zealot than an Analyzer. Zealotizer maybe? Just sayin'.

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 29 September 2017 - 09:24 PM.

[NarutoUzumaki01]

Look, it's real easy: I made a mistake. Suki does not mean crush. Both Karin and Sakura loved Sasuke and yeah, earlier material definitely indicates that Naruto loved Sakura, but I don't think it matters. In the end, Naruto chose Hinata and Sakura chose Sasuke; although there are some inconsistencies here and there, I'm fine with how the story turned out. Naruto is flawed manga and Kishimoto is a flawed author, but I didn't mind the ending and definitely believe there was enough material there for the author to go the route he decided on.

Arghhh, don't make things like that!

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

 

Seems the human pretzel routine is over. Concession accepted.

 

 

So . . .kid Sakura had a crush, fell in love at the points Naruto was recalling in his flashback, had a crush once again around the time Karin was introduced into the story and then fell right back in love . . . because you like being a pretzel?

 

Look, it's real easy: I made a mistake. Suki does not mean crush. Both Karin and Sakura loved Sasuke and yeah, earlier material definitely indicates that Naruto loved Sakura, but I don't think it matters. In the end, Naruto chose Hinata and Sakura chose Sasuke; although there are some inconsistencies here and there, I'm fine with how the story turned out. Naruto is flawed manga and Kishimoto is a flawed author, but I didn't mind the ending and definitely believe there was enough material there for the author to go the route he decided on.

 

 

 

 

Of course he could tell Sakura how he feels anytime, but he doesn't and tells us why he doesn't. So lets make it so simple that even a caveman can provide answer.

 

X = Naruto's feelings

Y = The promise he made to Sakura.

 

Sai has asked Naruto why he has not told Sakura about X. Naruto brings up Y. Why is Naruto bringing up Y in response to being questioned about X if X has nothing to do with Y?

 

 

 

Because you say it is. I gave you a different set of words to sub in place of crush in terms of the "I'm right because I say I'm right" approach. You've given us zero evidence or logic to support this "crush" mindset. It being a crush is your opinion; it being a crush is head-canon.

 

 

 

 

Chapter 3 says nothing about him wanting Sakura to "crave his acknowledgment instead of Sasuke's" What the hell does that even mean? Seriously, what in the world are you talking about? 

 

Most people's interpretations of the series are a result of what is established in the story, but for you, what gets established in the story mostly seems to be result of your interpretations. The databook says Naruto loved Sakura you say? Well that must mean the love was a crush! The databook uses the same word to describe Sakura and Karin's feelings for Sasuke? Welll then they both must've had a crush on him even as adults! The Last movie says Naruto only said he loved Sakura because he was competing with Sasuke? Well that must've meant he did in fact love Sakura, but only on a shallow crush level! Naruto brings up his failure to keep his promise when Sai asks him why he hasn't told Sakura how he feels? Well Naruto must've been shooting the breeze or something as the two things have nothing to do with each other! 

 

Yeah . . . you're more of a Zealot than an Analyzer. Zealotizer maybe? Just sayin'.

 

If anything, Through, you nailed a lot of the points. The problem is that Analyzer is just being as you said, a zealot. Really, she doesn't want to see the truth, like how Kakashi didn't want to see the truth about Itachi, in spite of teaching Naruto to see underneath the underneath and all that back in Part 1.

 

We also can't forget everything in The Last isn't truly canon as is everything else, and that Kishimoto only had Hinata "get" Naruto because he felt sorry for her and her stupid fans threatening him and the fans she had in Studio Pierrot. Overall, it shows how a good series can be bogged down by an ending, and how fans who are salty can't handle anything the author does and wants it their way or no way.

 

Huh. Kinda sounds like how Analyzer has been. She wants it to be seen her way or no way. Ironic!

[Legend054]

How do Naruto's feelings change post part one?

 

He actually just tries to regularly kiss her on chapter 3, more feed for you...but he's doing it as Sasuke. Which really, really feeds into the Last's explanation. 

 

The hospital reaction is not an admission of deep love. It is an understanding of how much Sakura cherishes Sasuke (It is also an arguable reversal that Sasuke has at least some feelings for her too). 

 

Yes, Naruto does respect Sakura, her strength, and they have a close bond. But this is platonic. And while they are parts of a good relationship, nothing that is not made into a joke or a weightless tease really happens to make NS more, or Naruto's feelings more than a crush. And if it does, it's taken away as soon as it is presented. 

 

Naruto's love for Sakura matures in part 2 when he starts taking her feelings more seriously as shown in chapter 457.

 

His love cannot be platonic because he's attracted to her as he says in chapter 3. It cannot be crush either because he has great respect and admiration for her and her feelings. If you combine all that it really can't turn into anything else but romantic love as for it to work requires sexual attraction, respect and admiration for the other person which Naruto all has for Sakura shown throughout the manga. Those NS moments you call a "joke" demonstrate Naruto's well-established romantic feelings for her since the very beginning. 

 

While The Last is a canon source material it's not a credible source as Kishimoto admits in the interview he is bad at writing romance, that's blatantly saying The Last is a terrible movie. This explains why it retcons so many things such as Naruto's feelings for Sakura because he doesn't know what he was doing. That's a total disrespect to all the fans thinking he can get away for being a shh!tty writer and for not putting effort into the movie because he "feels embarrassed writing romance". Then he tucks his tail and runs away along with the fan's money in his pocket. After all he has to make a living for dedicating his whole life as a mangaka. He enjoys it, so might as well profit from it regardless of how terrible it is hoping people would like it. He know people are dumb enough to buy it for what it is. So if you liked the movie and it turned out well for you, congrats! 

[VanitasDS76491]

Does anyone else think sasuke should have been fired as a ninja cause really he was one of the worst ninja meaning he doesn't follow orders, work well in a team thing that would get him fired,but wait I forgot the Uchiha can do no wrong. The only reason he was still a ninja was cause of his Sharigan which really is not that impressive.

[Kagomaru]

Ugh, It astonishes me how many miniscule scraps NaruHina fans can accept.  A NaruHina friend of mine just posted that scene from episode 18 of Boruto about how Hinata set a record for how much ramen she's eaten at Ichiraku, proclaiming that it's proof that Hinata is more compatible with Boruto's Dad. Nooooo, it proves that Hinata, whose personality is a blank slate save for her obsessive love for Boruto's Dad, is easily malleable and is probably emulating BD's diet in another bid to feel closer to him or please him because it was never established in the manga that she even enjoys ramen; let alone if she has the near-fanatical love that Naruto harbors for it. Contrast with Sakura, who has lectured Naruto on his eating habits regarding his Ramen binging because it's not good for his diet.  

 

This only proves once again:  Sakura balances him out,  Hinata enables him.

 

And FYI, we've seen Sakura eat there as well. So, it's not even even half of a point to the side of NaruHina.

Edited by Kagomaru, 01 October 2017 - 01:34 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Ugh, It astonishes me how many miniscule scraps NaruHina fans can accept.  A NaruHina friend of mine just posted that scene from episode 18 of Boruto about how Hinata set a record for how much ramen she's eaten at Ichiraku, proclaiming that it's proof that Hinata is more compatible with Boruto's Dad. Nooooo, it proves that Hinata, whose personality is a blank slate save for her obsessive love for Boruto's Dad, is easily malleable and is probably emulating BD's diet in another bid to feel closer to him or please him because it was never established in the manga that she even enjoys ramen; let alone if she has the near-fanatical love that Naruto harbors for it. Contrast with Sakura, who has lectured Naruto on his eating habits regarding his Ramen binging because it's not good for his diet.  

 

This only proves once again:  Sakura balances him out,  Hinata enables him.

 

And FYI, we've seen Sakura eat there as well. So, it's not even even half of a point to the side of NaruHina.

 

That's one reason I feel Hinata 'getting" Naruto as if he was some prize was a fail because like you said, Kagomaru, she tends to enable him because deep down she can't speak her mind or even properly support him while Sakura is more than capable of doing so since she'd been learning to be more open with herself around him, even when she felt annoyed by him.

[Dalton.T.R]

 

How does she enable him, exactly? She's shown she can speak her mind and support him, so what are you talking about? 

 

Certainly the Last also doesn't even portray this as a "prize" to get, making this first assertion entirely silly. 

Okay, I have lost count of how many times you've been replied to with DIRECT FACTS about the manga. When does Hinata enable him? Are your freaking for real right now?!  If you can't see that, it's time you open your freaking eyes. 

 

All you do is avoid questions we've all asked you and reply with little more than small talk. Show us where she spoke her mind to keep Naruto under control, or even attempted to stop him from doing something. I'll wait. 

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Okay, I have lost count of how many times you've been replied to with DIRECT FACTS about the manga. When does Hinata enable him? Are your freaking for real right now?!  If you can't see that, it's time you open your freaking eyes. 

 

All you do is avoid questions we've all asked you and reply with little more than small talk. Show us where she spoke her mind to keep Naruto under control, or even attempted to stop him from doing something. I'll wait. 

 

It's gonna be a long wait, Dalton. I'll go make some sandwiches and get some drinks.

[Phantom_999]

I seem to recall that Hinata can't even take most of the credit. It was mainly KURAMA that kept him in line, not Hinata. In fact Hinata wasn't even keeping him in line, her words were only stating that SHE believes in his" never giving up attitude", not telling him to snap out of the delusions of being able to protect everybody and that Neji made his choice, not did she snap him out of his depression. THAT WAS KURAMA. Case closed

Edited by Phantom_999, 01 October 2017 - 07:32 PM.

[ThroughWithLove]

Analyzer, on 01 Oct 2017 - 10:46 AM, said:

 

 

I will take this mockery as a concession on your part then. 

 

 

Take it for whatever you want, but everyone reading this conversation saw you tell us that the databook is referring to platonic love when it

tells us that Naruto loved Sakura up "until now" and saw you continually refuse to answer whether you believe Naruto's platonic relationship ended or that the databook doesn't matter. And you can keep hitting the reply button for eternity, but that's never going to change. But hey, whatever helps you cope. 

 

It's faulty to say Sakura fell -in- love at the exact points Naruto was recalling in the flashback

 

 

 

Sakura was in love at the the exact points in the flashback, hence the flashback and Naruto recalling it as such. Once again, we have ourselves a situation where the manga/databook/whatever is the source in need of reinterpreting as opposed to your precious headcanon. And the hilarious part is that both Sakura and Karin being in love with Sasuke doesn't even matter. It's minutia. Pure unmitigated minutia. You can accept Karin being in love with Sasuke and still like the ending, still think the pairings make sense and still think NS never had a chance. Same goes for Naruto having loved Sakura. It makes utterly no difference . . . for anyone who isn't a zealot anyway.

 

 

Your synopsis is incorrect, though Suki does not necessarily mean crush, as I said, it depends on context. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And as we've seen throughout multiple conversations now, context appears to be your code-word for "my head canon."

 

 

Simple: Naruto essentially says there is no worth to confessing crush, X, when he has not fulfilled a promise of a Y, but the desire to bring Sasuke back is not connected to this promise.

 

 

So basically, your position is that Naruto was simply blurting out a random statement. That when Sai asked him how he felt, he may as well have said this:

 

REVISION:

 

 

It being a crush is canon, actually. That's what is shown from chapter 3 in Naruto's words about Sakura. -That- is my evidence. How are you interpreting that scene otherwise?  If it's wrong, feel free to update the Naruto Wiki, it's in bad need of a fix if so. 

 

I was chatting with Bizarro Analyzer prior to making this post and she told me something similar: "It being a deranged obsession with beating Sasuke is canon, actually. That's what is shown from chapter 3 in Naruto's words about Sakura. -That- is my evidence. How are you interpreting that scene otherwise? " So who is correct here?  

 

I'll update a poor man's wikipedia right after you get Shounen Jump to retract their blur about Naruto falling in love with Sakura as well as get Studio Pierott to redub Naruto's use of the words "dai suki" in reference to Sakura in the third episode. 

 

Chapter 3 Naruto can tell that Sakura craves Sasuke's acknowledgement. Naruto wants her attention, I.E., Naruto wants her to crave his acknowledgement. This is called understanding the text, OP.You do not need a blatant line saying this, that would be telling over showing.

 

Nah, that's called glorified fanfiction. There's an entire website devoted to this practice by the way. Don't know why you feel compelled to do it here. The text does tell us that Naruto loves Sasuke because she "craves Sasuke's acknowledgment." Instead, what we plainly see on panel is a Naruto who is sincere about his feelings based on the facial expressions he is making:

 

 

 

 

Throw in the charming forehead comment (both Sakura's daydream about it and Naruto making the comment despite it being an unattractive feature about her) and Sakura being wrong about Naruto understanding her and we clearly have a scene designed to illustrate that Naruto is legitimately interested in her. We've seen how Naruto acts when he's being mischievous (i.e. trying to get the better of Sasuke) and we know how he acts when he's being sincere. It's because of the latter that no amount of calling a duck a squid is going to make anyone here think a duck that looks, swims and quacks like a duck is anything besides a duck. And you can hit the reply button for eternity, but this too will not change. 

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 01 October 2017 - 06:35 PM.

[VanitasDS76491]

I'm right here, you know. 
 
Only counterpoints: The Last is Canon, saying it isn't "Truly canon" is silly. No, Kishimoto did not only have Hinata "get" Naruto because he felt sorry for her, he said he would pity Hinata if her love turned tragic, and he was not about resolving tragic love that way. Certainly nothing about the fans, heck, factually we know there are NS fans in Studio Perriot as per the interview, so this whole point is just silly and is near conspiracy-theory leveling. 
 

 
On the first part, how so? Because nothing of the dynamic really changes at all in the 400s to the end of the manga.
 
You are correct, Naruto -does- have a crush on Sakura in chapter 3. The error though, is you are attributing that having great respect and admiration must turn into romantic love, when you can certainly have respect and admiration for a friend, and a crush on them. The moments I call a joke -do- demonstrate Naruto's feelings, as long as we understand it is to an extent of a crush, though not always, the 600s is just blatant teasing as confirmed by Naruto. 
 
The Last part makes no sense. Kishimoto says he is bad at writing romance, so that means the Last is a terrible Movie. Kishimoto did not write the last, he edited the script and made certain insertions inspired by his own love life. Kishimoto being bad at writing romance has nothing to do with the Last's quality. That's a logical fallacy. 
 
The rest is just silly, getting into near conspiracy level stuff I won't engage in.
 
 

 
In fairness, now he works alone, doesn't work in a team, and has abilities perfect for tracking this later threat to the world. He isn't really even part of the traditional ninja squads, so he is "sort of" fired from that traditional position. 
 
 

 
First off: Ramen Contest has nothing to do with compatibility on a serious level, maybe a humorous one though. 
 
Second off: Hinata's personality is not a blank slate at all. I'm not sure if you know what blank slate is.
 
Thirdly, Obsessive is also direly misplaced as an adjective here.
 
Fourthly: Nothing established that she didn't enjoy ramen in the manga either. 
 
Fifthly, and why I responded in the first place, I loath this argument that Sakura would keep Naruto in place like he's some man-child. Far as we are aware the food Naruto would eat at home (if not running late) is certainly not ramen all the time. Honestly, both pairings would be fine and have the same obstacles with Naruto's job as the other would. Neither is better than the other, even if we both like NS more. I don't get the need for this constant put down.

 
I meant before he went rogue he should have been fired as all he cared about was his revenge and probably would have let naruto and Sakura die.
 

So are we ignoring 615?
 
I -hate- posting scans, mobile is a pain and the PC is slow, but since I bothered copying scans in another thread, I'll post one of the referenced pages for once. 
 
Naruto was about to give in/give up. Here's Hinata speaking her mind to keep Naruto under control.
 
 
 

 
 

 
Nope, wait is over. I'll take one of the sandwiches though if you have extra.

They she shot herself in the foot in that scene where she commented on naruto's hand when neji's still fresh corpse is at her feet.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

 Then she shot herself in the foot in that scene where she commented on naruto's hand when neji's still fresh corpse is at her feet.

 

Pretty much showing she didn't do MUCH even if it was just a bit, and killing Neji was just done to be a Cupid thing.

[NarutoUzumaki01]

Honestly, both pairings would be fine and have the same obstacles with Naruto's job as the other would. Neither is better than the other, even if we both like NS more. I don't get the need for this constant put down.

We already got that part, don't worry.