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An outcast in the Naruto fandom


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#41 Emb3rs

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 05:59 AM

Well that is the thing man, the Pro-enders I mean even before the ending ever came we know and knew how crazy the NH/SS fans are as they lived in their own world and always have lived in thinking what they know is right when they don't remembere many are not that old or they think that they know what is right.

 

Now as for me James yes I still hate the ending and who Naruto and Sakura became but I will not hate who they used toi be and what they should have been, many writers on fanfic are still doing fics were the two grow in the right way, but the problem with that is again the pro-enders I have seen many tell NS fans to go kill them self for making an NS fic.

 

I mean it is hard to be a Naruto fan when you have a tone of crazy pro-enders who I think as you said know that its a bad rnding but think about it if they admit that this never should have happened then they would all have a mentel brake down, as I see their minds wouldn't be able to handle it at least that is how I see it with them.

 

But I don't care for the pro-enders they have no idea what good story telling is anyway unlike us and others that know that the ending to Naruto was bad. Plus there are better fandomes out there well better than Naruto at least.

 

In all honesty thats why i avoid responding on Youtube or twitter, every time i go on, even now almost every day, i see post saying " get over it NS will never be canon move on" and they are usually followed by hashtags of NH SS and so on. I stop and think, are they serious or just plain stupid. They just wrote get over it and here they are immediatly bragging about an end that even if i were to still ship SS NH i would hate. I remember a few days before finishing, or rather catching up too, the most recent episode of Naruto back in october i saw the cover for Naruto the Last at best buy. I searched some things up soon after and all the pics of the final couples looked so fake, forced, unnatural like they were smiling while thinking why tf am i here. Whenever i see fanart of the canon couples, the more popular ones being NH and SS, they look so forced and not really believable. Makes me wonder why people knowingly become so gullable to an ending that trashed its main characters to fit a supposed long awaited ending that had been chosen long ago. IMO if it really was chosen a while before being finished my guess is Kishi unknowingly or unintentionally strayed too far and to meet with his ending he forced this bs on us.



#42 Tiller

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 06:23 AM

I'm the same as I was back in mid 2014. NS should of happened. Sasuke needed to die. The Uchiha aren't peaceful victims. This story should have been about a hero accepting the changes and challenges of adulthood, instead of the fantasy of "no consequence/no evil" ideals.

 

I assume you'd call me a "hate" just to hate guy now, because there is little about this story and the way it ended that is worth defending. Canon Sakura is a terrible character. So is canon Naruto, canon Hinata, Sasuke should of stayed a villain as should have Itachi, Madara was a disappointment, and the ending was a joke. I never had a huge amount of respect for Kishimoto, I have no respect for him at all now.

 

No argument from anyone here or else where is going to change my mind about how over all this story is completely terrible.

 

The only thing that brought me into this story at first was the characterization, and the set up which pointed towards SO MUCH more. But what was delivered was terrible beyond measurement.

 

Now when people start talking about "the worst kind of manga/anime" Naruto is the first answer to come to mind. Naruto's ending is like the Star Wars Prequels, them ore you look into it from a story telling stand point the more worthless you realize they are, and I'm not going to defend it.

 

I'm glad to see people bashing the Naruto series now. Kishimoto and his defenders deserve nothing less then that.



 


#43 Tiller

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 07:21 AM

One more thing, I brought this up on Naruto Forums about a month ago, and I might as well bring it up here.

 

There is no Naruto fandom anymore. Just let that fact enter your mind now.

 

What we have is a broken base, to the point where now we are different tribes. On NF now the big fights aren't between the pro and anti ending crowd, it's not between NS and our allies against NH/SS, it's predominantly NH vs SS right now.

 

Wait... what?

 

I know that's what your saying, "How has the developed?"

 

The answer to that is a bit difficult to describe quickly, but I will do my best. You see, SS is held together largely by fanon ideals, in the same way that NS is held together now. By the I mean it is held together by fan centered content. In the story SS is a distant couple, Sasuke is gone most of the time, and he doesn't even kiss his "wife" goodbye. Well in the SS fandom Sasuke is the loving Father Knows Best type, who takes care of Salad, and who worships his Sakura with all his heart. In other words SS supports a Sasuke and Sakura that are not in the actual story.

 

NH suffers from something similar, but it has more to do with the worship of Hinata. Hang around NF at all now, and you'll see an interesting new tribal among the hater groups, which I'll call the "anti Pro NH fan". These are people are once fought side by side with the beta males, but then was kicked out of the group because they didn't worship Hinata correctly. Some just made fan fics where Hinata wasn't a vestige submissive virgin in their stories, others dared to make it so her and Naruto had conflict and their marriage wasn't perfect. You see the overall main joining of what makes NH is the virginal innocents of the submissive Hinata. Which now is greatly being challenged because 1. She's a married woman and 2. She has kids. Under the circumstances the beta males aren't sure how to react to the idea of Hinata being a woman who would actually enjoy having sex with her husband instead of being the shy girl hiding behind a tree and fainting at the thought of Naruto staring at her.

 

You see the beta males love Hinata not for who she is, but who they want her to be. Always submissive, never interested in things beyond her "Naruto-kun", and above all else she must be above "base" desires. Which has somehow started a war in their fandom which amounts to "Hinata is to pure to do ________." Listening to reports of the fights that have happened in that fandom their is a vocal crowd who hates the idea of Hinata doing anything besides sitting back staring at the ceiling and thinking of the Village once Naruto decided it was time to consummate their pairing.

 

Which has also lead these beta males to hate on Sakura more, because she is still a threat to them. Why? Because Sakura is the "main female character" the "queen bee", which the betas can not put up with. Well NS by and large doesn't defend canon Sakura anymore, because frankly she's not the character we thought her to be. Who does defend her still?

 

SS. As sad as it maybe for some to see, SS is the main defenders of Sakura now. They admire her because she "never gave up" and Sasuke and because she loves him even though he's never around her. Since in canon SS had sex at least once, no amount of abuse matters to them. Sasuke can disappear for years and SS will defend both his and Sakura's choice to still be together.

 

Which has caused interesting developments in the "anti" fanclubs. I've been a member of the Anti-Hinata fan club since at least 2009 but I think it's even earlier then that. Never the less, the biggest grouping of member in the Anti-Hinata fan club are now.... SS members. Who despise Hinata now because of the ways NH beta males worship her, and therefor attack Sakura. Likewise a large portion of the Anti Sakura fan club is now NH beta males who like to insult Sakura for not being a real "heroine".

 

That's just one way the "pro ending" fanbase is split, there are multiple more. Before you even begin to look at the pro/anti ending crowd you already have each base fractured to such an extent that the best way to label people now is mostly under the banner of "what character do they prefer the most".

 

That's right Ladies and Gentleman. That is what we are left with. It's no longer about the stories, or sagas, or even character arcs anymore. Now the fandom is so divided to the point where the most important way fans self identify themselves now is based on who their favorite character is, and what version of said character do they like.

 

Which is the classic setup to a simply badly written story. The reason their are so many different versions of a character out their based on how different fans see them, is the way it is, simply because Kishimoto was not talented enough to create them as satisfactory fully fledged characters in the first place.

 

People can no longer even agree about WHO Hinata is. Who Sakura is. Who Naruto is. We now have different versions of characters presented in ways that are not canon to how they are presented in the canon story. NS does this as well now, which isn't hard to figure out why. SS and NH does it this way as well now too though, because Kishimoto has by in large failed us all. The only people who are kinda completely happy are NH and they are only going to remain so, so long as Hinata continues to be shown as a pure, submissive wife, who knows her place.

 

The fandom is fractured and tribal based now, because the story is broken.



 


#44 Namikaze Clan

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 08:03 AM

Yeah I`m not too happy with the ending of the series, but really I`m not upset to the point were it sours the rest of my life.

 

Personally I`ve moved on from the ending and have put my focus towards much more better manga and anime.  Hell One Piece and HxH is a thousand times better than anything Kishi could ever write.



#45 Konoha'sCrimsonFox

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 09:00 AM

Yeah I`m not too happy with the ending of the series, but really I`m not upset to the point were it sours the rest of my life.

 

Personally I`ve moved on from the ending and have put my focus towards much more better manga and anime.  Hell One Piece and HxH is a thousand times better than anything Kishi could ever write.

 

Pretty much the same. Although, the aftermath of the ending came to me as a sign that the Naruto torch has been passed down to me through public domain. Now its my job as a writer to finish what Kishi started. And I just hope one day Kishi will realize what a gem he discarded for the rest of his life.


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#46 NeonRanger

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 09:05 AM

You can't take what a lot of anti-ending people say personally, especially not on the anti-Sakura bit. What is there to like about 'canon' Sakura? She's nothing like the girl we supported and watched grow as the series developed. 'Canon' Sakura and our version of Fanon Sakura are like two separate entities.

 

Can I read an anti-Sakura rant about how selfish she is when it comes to Sasuke and what great damage her involvement with him has done to her character and agree? Yes, I surely can. I can't stand to look at what Sakura has become. Seeing the Uchiha symbol on her back is a disgrace to their clan, and a disgrace to the character she could have been. Yes, I can completely hate on canon Sakura while thoroughly enjoying and supporting our interpretation of her, an interpretation I see as more correct (whether she ends up with Naruto or not, it is still 10x better that what 'canon' Sakura is)

 

I agree that the Konoha system is corrupt and it needed to be changed. The whole Shinobi system needed to be changed. Problem is, I didn't support Sasuke's methods, killing everyone to start anew would have just continued the cycle. He didn't even really have a plan after that, he just wanted to send the world into chaos and watch over a new system that would eventually form.

 

I supported Naruto (wrongly so) because I thought we would see his course of action come into play during the ending. I thought we would see the changes that needed to happen. The changes that Jiraiya spent his life regretting not being able to do more about. The changes that Nagato and his friends risked their lives and everything they had to put forth. I thought Naruto would bring about a true new era where they didn't need to train children to kill each other.  As you can see, everything is more or less the same. Yes, in 'canon' I am extremely anti-establishment, the same establishment that 'canon' Naruto is in charge of. To say I am disappointed in what used to be my favorite character is an understatement. I can't stand to look at his canon version either. Naruto is nothing but another warm seat in the Hokage's chair who changed nothing, or very little. I'm disappointed in EVERYONE who kept things more or less the same, including Shikamaru and Kakashi.

 

I couldn't be against Minato and Kushina even if I tried, but I do remember one thing. People were upset about Minato's words to Kushina WAYYY before this ending. I remember a Naruto artist I still watched named Nekoni was real mad/disappointed about it. Even I was a little awed at the poor excuse Kishi gave to kill off Minato. There were a million other solutions than "I'm committing suicide because I can't raise him without you." I cannot blame Minato and Kushina for what the system has done to them or their never-to-be family.

 

I don't think the Uchiha's were perfect little angels, I'm not even particularly upset that they were all killed off because of what they planned to do, but the Uchiha's are just an example of what the corrupt system can create. They were oppressed and segregated from everyone else. I don't think Tobirama was wrong to worry about their easily damaged minds and emotional states, but he went about it all in the wrong way. He too was just the end result of centuries worth of humans and children just killing each other over and over again because of age old grudges.

 

The anti-ending peoples, especially on tumblr, have every right to hate what Naruto has become. Look at what's happened to this series, look at what's happened to this fandom. I've never seen anything like it, and most of it is Kishi's fault. Naruto never ended, Kishi and his allies pretended it did and sent this fandom into a frenzy. Even some of his staff were basically giving a verbal middle finger in plain language to people upset over the ending. They did a piss poor job, and they continue to do a piss poor job of trying to fix it and continue it. The hatred will never stop, and it'll never get better. It will remain this way, the people who hate all of it now vs. the people who love all of it (but they actually don't and paint their fantasies over it)

 

Like I said at the beginning, you can't take what many anti-ending people say to heart. They aren't really talking about NaruSaku fans, they aren't talking about fans of Naruto and Sakura's characters as we interpreted them to be (except the ones who always disliked their characters despite what happened in the manga before fall to the ending). It's not our fight anymore. When I see you on Tumblr debating these people, I always want to ask, "Why are you still fighting? There's no point. We're not in that fandom anymore."

 

As I've always said, yeah, a NaruSaku fan CAN be an anti-ender, and in fact, most of us are. But not all anti-enders are NaruSaku fans. I'd say the amount of NaruSaku fans who actively post in the anti-ending tags are a very small minority. Yeah, now a lot of non-NaruSaku anti-enders will defend us (and SNS) because we were the lesser of the evils, but that doesn't mean they are on our side. That does not mean they are our allies. We are not 'sisters', we just happen to agree on this one big thing and for that, we'll support each others arguments on that one thing.

 

The NaruSaku fandom... we are so far removed now and we're drifting further and further away from this series. It will only get better for us, it will only get better for you, but you just have to understand... there's no point of us fighting anymore. Maybe you can be sassy to some pro-enders, but there's literally no point in facing anti-enders. I really wish we could all spend less time discussing those ships and that manga and just focus on our own stuff now. We have so much material, it's ridiculous. I've seen other fandoms with 10x less continue to pump out beautiful things day in and day out, even after their pairings aren't canon and a decade has passed.

 

The NaruSaku fandom needs to get it together, and fighting pro-enders/anti-enders is only setting us back.

 

I don't take things to heart, but my NS friends do; it doesn't help that some anti's manage to convince some of my friends into being anti-NS as whole and are no longer shippers. Some ship SNS now. One of the many things that bug me a little was how focus a bunch of NS are about being anti- ending. Not all of course, but I hate too unfollow a lot of NaruSaku blogs on Tumblr. Everyone have the right to express their views about the ending, I don't have issues with that. But, there was one NS blog (no names) that made amazing NS manga edits. After the ending there are a couple of NS edits from the blog, but the majority was filled with anti posts. Not a big deal. Than Gaiden came and all of a sudden it's been months since I ever seen new NS edits ( and short fan fictions) from the blog. Everything was no filled with arguments against canon. Again not a big deal, but it's another NS I have to unfollow because I'm no longer get NS as frequently  from them anymore, only more discussions and rev rants against canon. 

 

Our fandom is already getting smaller as it is; there is only 2 legit NS blogs (just NS) I follow on Tumblr  (NS factory and Ask Shina) after that I had to unfollow a lot of NS blogs because a lot of art is unsourced or are edited NH/SS art ( mostly SS based on my experience, as I follow those particular arts blog/ twitter). It doesn't help that the majority of my time is on tumblr mobile, and my dash is empty, so going to the NaruSaku tag on tumblr mobile is a feat; seeing cross tagging and at times some anti NS tags that are properly tag (you don't know how seeing anti NS makes me depressed because you really want people to understand why you ship NS) than you have some NA shippers still tagging Anti-NH/SS and NS, when the whole reason why one would go to the tag is for NS not scrolling past more anti rants that clearly has a tag of their own. And some of the posts I had toto scroll by reminds me of those Facebook anti arguments (Facebook is a kittentyplace for all fandom to reside in), the NS tag on mobile for me is just horrible, the only good point is the lack of spam (which is more disappointing cosidering that our fandom was huge back than), I only follow 10 NH mutuals (I don't mind NH as much) and I see more art on their dash than I do with NS, and when I go to the tags and the art is properly sourced ( not all) and the have a good amount of NH fan arts and fics and I see more pro NH rants than crosstaggers, which is why I call kitten when they do call out NS for cross tagging because our fandom is small. 

 

Our fandom was perfectly large in size before the ending and we we're perfectly aligned with sourcing art , making art and fanfics before the ending, and after the ending our fandom suddenly became larger and more supportive of NS ( not the anti's) even when we had some large artist leave us, so even though I was depressed, NS art was comforting. After the Bolt movie suddenly we began losing people which is understandable, if one wants to move on the have every right. But know people are suddenly posting NS art that are unsourced art which doesn't help the fandom at all, and edited art because some want to spite ship I guess? Right now I've been recommended a lot to arts from mutual a into asking for commissions, and I personally don't like that at all. For me my  emotions seem to come out more from art made by people who love the ship, or who are NS shippers and make commissions. It feels dull when I have  to see art commissions of NS from someone who never even heard of Naruto. Same with other ships I have. Plus one can only spend that much money, no matter how cheap; I'm a college student with no aid, every penny counts. 


Edited by NeonRanger, 14 January 2016 - 09:09 AM.

Hello, Hello, Hello!  :argh:


#47 Tiller

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 09:28 AM

Speaking for myself, the difficulty of writing an NS piece now (which I once planned on doing a year ago now) comes from the fact that I can't stand Kishimoto and what he did to us. It's not "life altering", I only come back here and back to NF if I'm interested in looking at something to do with a manga or anime, usually Attack on Titan. My life as a whole is barely touched by this series. Still I'm proud to have fought with many of you. It's kind of like a veterans club here. We talk about the war, shake our head about the new kids on the block, and end our day with a curse towards Kishimoto for putting us threw the battles we fought.

 

For the guys and gals who continue to defend this ship, and continue building art work and stories for it. All I can do is salute them and honor their efforts. Maybe I'll do an outline of what should be. It's been awhile since I thought it out and the old mind could use some work.



 


#48 Moon_Girl

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 09:39 AM

Then i guess I am one of the only few fans left in this crazy fandom who loves Sakura, loves NS, and thinks that Hinata and her fanbase are the root of all evil. I also think that Sasuke is still a brat and worthless...despite having more respect for him...and apparently I am the ONLY person here who actually like Obito as a character and think that his motives, while not justified, are somewhat understandable.

I guess maybe I am the only one who has ever lost something so precious to them that life...just loses meaning. No one else seems to understand that, but me. Maybe that is why I can understand Obito so much. In a way, I was just like him and I know how he feels.

 

Then I guess the Naruto fandom deserves to go to Hell and burn for all eternity....

You're not the only one. I feel the same way too. I don't hate Sakura. I hate 699 and beyond Sakura. I love NS and I always will. I've always believed Hinata and her fanbase were the root of all evil and I believed this even before the ending. I hate Hinata. I can't stand her.

I don't care much for Sasuke either. He IS a brat and gains too much attention. He also ruins good characters.

I never hated Obito either. I like Obito.

 

Geez, you're not the only one who feels that way.  :argh:


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#49 kirabook

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 10:55 AM

@NeonRanger

 

When you mess up things THIS badly, people aren't going to stick around. It would have been different if the manga ended properly and the only bad thing that didn't happen was Naruto and Sakura getting together, but it was way more than that. It's so bad that ex-fans can't even work up the strength to produce content for a couple they loved so much before. It's so bad, that no one wants to even waste their time on this series anymore.

 

If Naruto had actually ended, I think the NaruSaku fandom would be in better shape, but as we know, it didn't end, and it'll keep on going for who knows how long as they milk out everything they can.

 

If you're a NaruSaku fan and you're only waiting for people to produce content, then you'll be sorely disappointed. Now, you have to make the content yourself. If you have to ask, "When will someone do this?" The answer is never unless YOU do it.

 

I am the askshina blog, and I requested all those commissions because I am only one person (along with a few others that draw Shinachiku). I am not good enough, nor do I have the time to draw Shina all the time or make him look really good. I got those commissions of Shinachiku and Hanami as presents, and a few of those people did ship NS even if they don't make content for them or haven't in a very long time.

 

I do what I can to keep a slow steady pace of content flowing out. If others like me did the same, we wouldn't be in this situation, but no one can work up the strength to care that much anymore, because this series is truly trash now.


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#50 NeonRanger

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 12:55 PM

@NeonRanger
 
When you mess up things THIS badly, people aren't going to stick around. It would have been different if the manga ended properly and the only bad thing that didn't happen was Naruto and Sakura getting together, but it was way more than that. It's so bad that ex-fans can't even work up the strength to produce content for a couple they loved so much before. It's so bad, that no one wants to even waste their time on this series anymore.
 
If Naruto had actually ended, I think the NaruSaku fandom would be in better shape, but as we know, it didn't end, and it'll keep on going for who knows how long as they milk out everything they can.
 
If you're a NaruSaku fan and you're only waiting for people to produce content, then you'll be sorely disappointed. Now, you have to make the content yourself. If you have to ask, "When will someone do this?" The answer is never unless YOU do it.
 
I am the askshina blog, and I requested all those commissions because I am only one person (along with a few others that draw Shinachiku). I am not good enough, nor do I have the time to draw Shina all the time or make him look really good. I got those commissions of Shinachiku and Hanami as presents, and a few of those people did ship NS even if they don't make content for them or haven't in a very long time.
 
I do what I can to keep a slow steady pace of content flowing out. If others like me did the same, we wouldn't be in this situation, but no one can work up the strength to care that much anymore, because this series is truly trash now.

No, I am aware, which is why I have no issues with the art dying down. I have only made two NS fanfictions and AMVs, but the fanfictions were a year ago and after the ending, but I delated after seeing the comments; I'm not as confident when people tell me that my writing sucks, even though they were SS/NH shippers trying to rile me up, so I gave up fanfiction. The hurt got to me in the end; luckily I have SS/NH mutuals, so I know that that all of them are bad. I made AMVs back in 8/9th grade, back then I dual ship NS/SS. I made one SS vid for CoH and only two for NS, but it was time consuming, especially after I began taking AP/ Dual enrollment. But the ending really didn't help, which is why I don't feel that bad for the lack of art. But you're right, I should get more involved. I always like any NS fanfic/art and compliment them on Devientart/ Tumblr. so I can support the artist and the fandom. They really keep the ship alive. I will try and write more fanfics.

Oh, so you own the blog? I like you're art! I draw at all which is why I stick to fanfics (most in spanish).

Money is tight for me right now, so I never bothered with commissions as of lately. Even though it's still hard for me to get NaruSaku content, if push comes to shove, when I get extra cash that doesn't go for bills or family, I'm getting more NS, especially the dounjinshi.

If Naruto had ended, the NS fandom would be a lot better. Back in Gaiden I scroll through a lot to see some NS content in my dash. It don't help that when any new content comes out everyone can only talk about the content, but I won't butt in and complain about why thry shouldn't reblog, since it's their blog. I know the NaruSaku tag won't be the same before the ending. I'm just tired of having see stolen/ edited artwork or sorces coming from pinterest. Especially when you attempt to address that this was stolen of edited. Some of them removed messages or ignore you. Devientart is horrible.

It's annoying to see anti-posts get more notes than the art themselves; I want them to vent, but then I see people people getting tired of contributing because of the lack of notes. I never cared about notes, as long as you love the ship, but I can understand some wanting to show the art to other shippers. I'm conflicted about that because I want people to express their hate, but at least take the time to pay attention to the one contributing to the fandom, and not let the hate take you to the point were your blog is completely anti-NH/SS. I unfollowed five NS because of that; this didn't happen until after Bolt, there posts and content were mainly NS, but for some reason it was all anti-posts. I don't judge, people have the right to express what they want in their blog. It's just another blog I don't keep track anymore.
But you're right, I should make an effort of making NS content. It will be hard since spring semester is here and I'm taking six classes and two, but for any free time I plan on writing something NS. That's why I signed up here ^_^

The series indeed became trash, sad how the fandom was destroyed by the ending...

Edited by NeonRanger, 14 January 2016 - 12:58 PM.

Hello, Hello, Hello!  :argh:


#51 NeonRanger

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 01:33 PM

You're not the only one. I feel the same way too. I don't hate Sakura. I hate 699 and beyond Sakura. I love NS and I always will. I've always believed Hinata and her fanbase were the root of all evil and I believed this even before the ending. I hate Hinata. I can't stand her.
I don't care much for Sasuke either. He IS a brat and gains too much attention. He also ruins good characters.
I never hated Obito either. I like Obito.
 
Geez, you're not the only one who feels that way.  :argh:

Honestly from every argument I ever seen, the only person who was cheated off the System was the Uchihas. I can understand stand what people are saying, but it's really surprising how many people support/ defend Sasuke. I like him, I like SNS (not romantically), but there is some actions I can't condone. I was okay with Sasuke roaming and watvh the village from afar.

And Hinata ends up being the sole princess of this series. I never meet a female character being so catered towards, and what's worst is that shes a secondary character. I was always nonchalant about her until 432. It was questionable, but I felt that it wad necessary for her growth. Then later I see an animation for 432, ch. 615, 616, The Last, and NH family photos from Bolt...and you compare her to Sakura, you wonder which female character came out on top? Like SS is crap, but then you have her not even about of the legendary sanins that defeated Kaguya, being an establishes housewife (even Ino is still a working Kunoichi), and Hinata being the new self proclaimed heroine...and just like I blame Kishi I also blame the extreme Hinata/NH shippers/ fans for making her completely relevent in story about Naruto's struggles.

I really try to understand how Hinata manage to become so popular enough to replace Sakura as heroine. Even Kishi said he couldn't understand how Hinata is popular.

Tiller is right, you pretty much have to ask who you're favorite Naruto character is and you already have half of their info on what they support.

Hinata is really something else in the manga, the lack of hate she gets, is overwhelming.

Edited by NeonRanger, 14 January 2016 - 01:34 PM.

Hello, Hello, Hello!  :argh:


#52 rocci

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 02:08 PM

Uchiha rebellion happen in order to justified itachi massacre.
And to make itachi as a saint.

Hinata lack of hate because she's irrelevant and she support and love naruto when no girl do that, but mostly because she's irrelevant so she doesn't become fandom subject of hate unlike sakura who is a main character and have the most screen time in manga for a female character.

#53 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 02:10 PM

The closest we ever saw was when he was talking to Salad. Even with Boruto and Himawari, his own children, he only looks neutral at best, but is never truly smiling. With Salad, even then, the smile looked a lot more forced than natural, like talking to her was actually breaking him inside and all he could think was, "This could have been MY kid and the way my life could have become."

 

And that's something I'll sometimes ask a NH/SS extremist/pro-ender - "Rather than NH/SS happening in general, are you truly happy with how they happened? Are you truly happy with simply being handed your canon ship on a silver platter without having any actual individual and mutual character development to show for it? That you were pitied?", and most of the time, all I'll get is either silence or the usual talking points of denial.

I sometimes compare how the ending came about to something like...if there was a kid involved in some competition and they spend all day talking about how happy they would be if they were to win the competition (while not being made to train or prepare for the competition in any way), and ends up not coming in first. As a result, no one wants to give them that second/third/etc. place trophy because of now not wanting to hurt their feelings because of how they talked so much about wanting to win (or he happens to have rich/influential family members or something), so they simply also give that kid a first place trophy out of pity so they can stand beside the kid who did actually train/prepare for and win the competition, which only destroys the prospect of that kid learning anything about not always getting their way and such, but also all but tells the kid who actually did win first place that it doesn't matter how much work (development in terms of story) you put into your goal, it won't matter because you'll always have someone else just lifted up and set down right beside you for one reason or another without doing any actual work.

 

I can understand Naruto wanting to be friends with Sasuke/Sasuke to be his friend because of him being one of the few who didn't avoid/tease him like others did (at their parents' order usually), but seriously, just one or two things they happened to have in common and yet never sharing anything but negative words and actions towards each other (because of "rivalry") does not equal "true friendship" or "best friends". Heck, from what we've seen in flashbacks, Naruto did have friends in the academy when he was younger, in Shikamaru, Chouji, and Kiba and their antics of cutting class and such, and yet with how Naruto has acted throughout most of Part Two, I, sadly, don't see him risking anywhere near as much to save their lives if they were to go down the same path as Sasuke for whatever reason.

If anything, Naruto would be worse. He's definitely the Shirou Emiya type (Fate/stay night) who would try to make it so he can have everything both ways. He'd want to save everyone, even at the possible cost of not being able to save anyone. The only one that is permissible to be hurt/killed would be himself. Such thinking is why, as I keep saying, Naruto (along with Sasuke) was far from mentally prepared to be even a Chunin, much less Hokage. At the very least, yes, Naruto cared far more about Sasuke than anyone else around him and, translated into Hokage action, Naruto would be more interested in "saving" an enemy than about the survival of his own people.

 

Or if they feel that enough people are right behind them and/or in between themselves and whoever they're revealing themselves to. It's why, here in the US, racism, bigotry, xenophobia, etc. has seemingly exploded ever since President Obama was (re-)elected when the reality is that it was always there with such people; they were just too afraid to actually voice it out loud, but when so many others started doing so, especially elected (Republican) politicians, radio hosts, "news anchors", and all around crazy people (who would have otherwise been locked away in asylums or something decades ago) with no repercussions, only then do they suddenly have the "courage" to reveal their true selves.

 

 

It was the same way with Sasuke. He initially kept trying to use Itachi and his sacrifice as justification for his never-ending quest for vengeance, and yet it was Danzo of all people to point out the blatant hypocrisy of Sasuke's actions and that all Sasuke was doing was spitting on Itachi's sacrifice
.
 

And what they seem to not realize/choose to ignore is that it doesn't really matter what they do now, it will only further anger people. It's been made pretty clear that no one on either side of the spectrum actually gives a crap about the "new generation", meaning they'll have to keep coming back to the old one (which is probably the only thing that will keep a chunk of people coming back - hope in seeing stuff happen with the old generation), which is now hated for what they have become. If they don't show NH/SS suddenly being all lovey-dovey, then NH/SS extremists/pro-enders will hate them even more because it only cause themselves to look even more pathetic in their desperate attempts to truly legitimize their favorite pairings, but if they were to suddenly try to pull a switcheroo on pairings in some way in a desperate attempt to win back the other side, it will only make the NS/SK/anti-enders angrier because, at least the more casual/neutral/logical fans don't want pairings to happen out of pity, "popularity", rear-kissing, etc.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head this especially the Sasuke stuff and Naruto's obsession with Sasuke. Obito was good I though but I wish he would have shut up about Rin he's like Kaine from the Clone Saga with Peter Paker and how Kaine wouldn't stop kittening that he was a clone that's what Obtio was.



#54 MagicalNgro

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 10:58 PM

Kishi did a horrible thing not because of the ending and not by the pairings, but because he didn't respect the investment of his fans. No matter what happened,all sides, all characters and all the development needed to be respected.

You sit up and have naruto and sakura be the main protagonists for all of shippuden, show them learning, growing and bonding together only for Sakura to be the same fangirl she was at the beginning is a crime.

Naruto and sakura deserved way more than to be a rivalry trophy, it cheapens everything and that sickens me.

Naruto deserved more, Sakura deserved more, and even Hinata deserved more. Sasuke deserved death imo, he was the most unrepentant character ever, i find it impossible to figure out how he's Naruto's best friend and Sakura's husband.

That's the biggest thing, lack of respect! It's a kick in the gut when your otp doesn't get the Canon, but reducing it to nothing like that kitten last movie did was nothing but skullduggery. Kishi saying we read it wrong is just insult to injury. If we read it wrong, why did they need to WRITE A MOVIE AND SERIES OF NOVELS to explain what 15 years of manga didn't?

Kishi betrayed an entire fanbase not because of creative misrepresentation, not because laziness, not even because of greed, but a general lack of integrity and respect for the loyalty his readers showed him for over a decade.

Edited by MagicalNgro, 14 January 2016 - 11:00 PM.


#55 tricksie

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 01:06 AM

@NeonRanger

 

When you mess up things THIS badly, people aren't going to stick around. It would have been different if the manga ended properly and the only bad thing that didn't happen was Naruto and Sakura getting together, but it was way more than that. It's so bad that ex-fans can't even work up the strength to produce content for a couple they loved so much before. It's so bad, that no one wants to even waste their time on this series anymore.

 

If Naruto had actually ended, I think the NaruSaku fandom would be in better shape, but as we know, it didn't end, and it'll keep on going for who knows how long as they milk out everything they can.

 

If you're a NaruSaku fan and you're only waiting for people to produce content, then you'll be sorely disappointed. Now, you have to make the content yourself. If you have to ask, "When will someone do this?" The answer is never unless YOU do it.

 

I am the askshina blog, and I requested all those commissions because I am only one person (along with a few others that draw Shinachiku). I am not good enough, nor do I have the time to draw Shina all the time or make him look really good. I got those commissions of Shinachiku and Hanami as presents, and a few of those people did ship NS even if they don't make content for them or haven't in a very long time.

 

I do what I can to keep a slow steady pace of content flowing out. If others like me did the same, we wouldn't be in this situation, but no one can work up the strength to care that much anymore, because this series is truly trash now.

 

Right - I'm intentionally not moving on from the fandom because I'm still writing fics for it. It sucks that the series ended so badly, because I wasn't ready to be done with it. I never once thought that the end of the manga was the end of NS. I thought it would go on and on, with the new generation focusing on their kids, or a spin off focusing on Minato and Kushina. 

 

That's also why I love your askshina blog. To me, that's the natural progression of the manga (NS and the next gen of Shinachiku). The art and fanfics centering around him and future NS are the real ending. It's hard to keep up the interest after the bust of an ending, but there are so many people who feel the same about NS and Shina as we do. So that's why I'm trying to stick to only NS positive sites and let the rest just burn themselves out!!!!



#56 starlitestarbrite

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 01:43 AM

i feel like an outcast on the whole internet lol...it's hard to tell when someone's your friend or not these days. and the naruto fandom is more of a hatedom now cause NH/SS/pro-enders wont shut the heck up, and stop cyberbullying everyone, and leave NS fans' alone!

 

the haters wont let anyone do/say anything. on tumblr they go to the anti tags just to pick a fight, not sure what they do on twitter, on youtube i notice most of the fighting/arguing goes on in the comment section of certain hinata fanboys' videos, and even if NS supporters made vids' haters would probably invade THEIR videos' so, i try to avoid social media. it should be called the "anti social media" sure there are some who can say "but this is the internet" so?

 

did you ever become friends with people who you thought were your  friends forever, and they shared the same interest as you but, then when that trend dies out, or the next big thing came along they abandon you, and leave you to wonder if they were ever really your friends'? did you ever have someone bring you down no matter what you said/did? and they go out of their way to make you not even want to LIVE anymore? it's WORSE on the internet because 1-they're behind a screen, 2-no one will come to your defense and tell them to back the heck off, and 3- it could end with tragedy, because bullies NEVER consider their words might be the trigger of someone's suicide.the only difference between real life and internet life is on the internet people seem to get away with it!

 

why is it okay to be hateful, and mean online? why is okay to hurt someones feelings on purpose online? why is Cyber bullying getting the "oh it's just the internet ignore it" but offline bullies get what they deserve? seriously i don't think people understand that YES words have impact on other peoples lives

 

i don't think people in this world know what compassion, sympathy, empathy, unconditional TRUE love [it works both ways like NaruSaku, and is slowly building up from platonic to romance  by the way it's not one sided and rushed like SS/NH], and true friendship are anymore. what has our society become when it's easier to say "i hate you" than "i love you"?, where the bad outwit the good, and the VILLAIN/anti-hero of every story ALWAYS win! and the hero, and heroin get torn apart, and become empty shells' of their former selves?, this society is one messed up backwards society!


Edited by starlitestarbrite, 02 April 2016 - 05:20 AM.


#57 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 02:23 AM

 

Right - I'm intentionally not moving on from the fandom because I'm still writing fics for it. It sucks that the series ended so badly, because I wasn't ready to be done with it. I never once thought that the end of the manga was the end of NS. I thought it would go on and on, with the new generation focusing on their kids, or a spin off focusing on Minato and Kushina. 

 

That's also why I love your askshina blog. To me, that's the natural progression of the manga (NS and the next gen of Shinachiku). The art and fanfics centering around him and future NS are the real ending. It's hard to keep up the interest after the bust of an ending, but there are so many people who feel the same about NS and Shina as we do. So that's why I'm trying to stick to only NS positive sites and let the rest just burn themselves out!!!!

 

I agree, Tricksie :) I love following Kira's Ask Shinachiku blog not just to see her art, but also the natural progression you speak of. Honestly, I am hoping I can get my fanfic running full speed, since I've only done three chapters. Sure, it's just an AU story, but, I want to do it to show a new look to Naruto, and also to make sure that the haters will see people can be upset by the ending AND be able to make some wonderful pieces of art out of it. Like the askshina blog has done, as well as a lot of other Shinachiku, Hanami, Arashi, and other NS kid artwork :D



#58 Catra

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 04:10 AM

im saddened that there's more shinachiku art than ladygt's kasumi. *big sigh*



#59 Narufan85

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 04:39 AM

H&E is my fandom!  :grouphug:


This is how I feel. Outside of the community here and the few fics I still follow, I don't really consider myself part of the fandom anymore. I had to step out. I was way to legitimately upset over the ending.

#60 Legend054

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 05:59 AM

Honestly man, I won't even bother with the pro-enders if I were you. They're either trolling or too ignorant to know what's real. We all know Sasuke is a true cold blooded Uchiha.

 

It's hard to love the series anymore since the ending was terrible, but I'm not one of those people that will nitpick on every little details, to whine about that's not even ending related. I don't hate Naruto, it's just the ending was so bad, it's hard to appreciate Naruto fully anymore. I'm actually excited to see the new Naruto storm game. I also even plan on making an AMV of Naruto vs Sasuke. I just won't support the series anymore or won't spend even a penny on it, except maybe for the game since all they wanted all along was to make NH happen for their selfish desires. 


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