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Something Sakura should have asked herself.


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#21 James S Cassidy

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:17 PM

And Hinata is probably worse than either one of them ultimately turned out because she's proven to be entirely self-centered yet also passive.  Say what you will about Sakura, but she tries to be a decent parent to Sarada whereas Hinata will do nothing as her husband ignores both his children so that he can satisfy his lust for paperwork and avoid his family as much humanly possible.  When Boruto criticizes his father in front of his mother and sister for being a non-entity at home in the manga, does Hinata meet him halfway to acknowledge her husband's faults and offer to mediate the divide by speaking to him or having a family intervention?  No, she meekly retorts with a failed attempt at a guilt-trip by telling her son how his father had so much harder than himself.

 

"Standing out of his way"/enabling his behavior is exactly why Naruto continues to be a complete kitten to his family and why we've argued for years that Hinata is not compatible match for him. If Sakura were his wife, you would never even dream of Naruto behaving as he is in canon.

What it basically comes down to is Sakura is a good mother, but lousy wife; Hinata is a good wife, but lousy mother; and Naruto and Sasuke are just bad fathers and husbands all around. Best love story ever.

 

Man, Kushina and Minato are the best parents ever and they weren't even there.

 

Oh, and I can't forget how Hinata charged her son with her husband's protection or how she was practically willing to make her children into orphans by jumping into a fight would've led to her death, all so she could be with her man.

 

Great parenting, Hinata.  You prove that as long you have your beloved husbando "Naruto-kun", you would happily leave any of your blood relatives to rot or be miserable, as examplified by your borderline sociopathic attitude in reaction to Neji's death and Hanabi's kidnapping.

 

 

And AGAIN, the pro-enders flaunt on how "strong" she is and how she can kick anyone's ass, but when it comes the need for her to stand up and be counted...she fails miserable.


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#22 DrK

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:36 PM

Kishi cut Sakura's legs out from under her. She wasn't ALLOWED to look good around Sasuke. Maybe if she had been, the fact that she ended with him wouldn't have been so pathetic. It could have looked like she was taking pity on him, or something, instead of the case that she's just too obsessed to be rational. 

 

Analyzer, you are really losing your touch. Your first post makes this obvious. The topic never criticizes Sakura for loving Sasuke. You can love someone who tried to kill you, tortured you, let you fall in lava. You can still love them. You cannot, however, marry them, have/adopt their child, and be their personal housekeeper for 15 years without looking absolutely pathetic. This is a fact of life. I thought I made it clear in the topic, but I apparently didn't, since you seemed to interpret my point as she shouldn't have loved Sasuke. I guess my rant should have been even longer? IDK. Her endurance is a strength, but becoming the woman of someone who valued your life as worth less than a box of donuts is never going to be perceived as a strength by anyone. I addressed the issue of compassion as well. She's being compassionate towards Sasuke, not anyone else.

 

You also completely failed to tackle one of the key arguments of my thread, which is the fact that it's absolutely RIDICULOUS, not just pathetic. So I have to assume that you think this is realistic behavior for her not to feel anything negative towards Sasuke at the end. She was just traumatized for life by this man and she doesn't even bother to ask Naruto if she should really heal him.

 

You find it unfair to hyperfocus and conclude Sakura is weak for enduring? Sakura's the only one who married him! End of discussion.


Edited by DrK, 14 November 2017 - 12:07 AM.


#23 James S Cassidy

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 02:37 AM

Kishi cut Sakura's legs out from under her. She wasn't ALLOWED to look good around Sasuke. Maybe if she had been, the fact that she ended with him wouldn't have been so pathetic. It could have looked like she was taking pity on him, or something, instead of the case that she's just too obsessed to be rational. 

 

Analyzer, you are really losing your touch. Your first post makes this obvious. The topic never criticizes Sakura for loving Sasuke. You can love someone who tried to kill you, tortured you, let you fall in lava. You can still love them. You cannot, however, marry them, have/adopt their child, and be their personal housekeeper for 15 years without looking absolutely pathetic. This is a fact of life. I thought I made it clear in the topic, but I apparently didn't, since you seemed to interpret my point as she shouldn't have loved Sasuke. I guess my rant should have been even longer? IDK. Her endurance is a strength, but becoming the woman of someone who valued your life as worth less than a box of donuts is never going to be perceived as a strength by anyone. I addressed the issue of compassion as well. She's being compassionate towards Sasuke, not anyone else.

 

You also completely failed to tackle one of the key arguments of my thread, which is the fact that it's absolutely RIDICULOUS, not just pathetic. So I have to assume that you think this is realistic behavior for her not to feel anything negative towards Sasuke at the end. She was just traumatized for life by this man and she doesn't even bother to ask Naruto if she should really heal him.

 

You find it unfair to hyperfocus and conclude Sakura is weak for enduring? Sakura's the only one who married him! End of discussion.

I am still trying to get to understand at how did Sasuke go with it; "Marrying" Sakura, having a kid with her, and so much....although, by looking at Naruto Gaiden, it seems like he did none of such things. There is no wedding or record of them getting married and consumating the marriage. Like I said, NH at least had this one, why couldn't Sasuke and Sakura? It is not even mentioned in any of the Hiden novels or any other source material. There is no mention anywhere of them getting married.

It seems more like Sakura just adopted his kid, plastered his symbol on her back, and said "we are husband and wife." Sasuke, unwilling to argue, just rolled with it. The less headache the better because even he knows Sakura has become crazy at this point. This is why he stays away.

Again, that Shimoneta style where she bakes her "love nector" in his cookies and other creepy ass things.

How did any of it even occur when there is nothing from Sasuke's end? That's the pathetic part. How can you love someone who just doesn't give a kitten about you? This is a real question that many pro-enders, even Analyzer here, fail to even grasp. How can they be a loving and happy couple when Sasuke seems so apathetic to show any emotion towards Sakura at all? They always want to say that Sasuke is so scared to show that kind of emotion, but....no. Just no. Noone is THAT afraid and if they were, they wouldn;t have agreed to a marriage in the first place unless they were forced.


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#24 DrK

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 03:26 AM

How did any of it even occur when there is nothing from Sasuke's end? That's the pathetic part. How can you love someone who just doesn't give a kitten about you? This is a real question that many pro-enders, even Analyzer here, fail to even grasp. How can they be a loving and happy couple when Sasuke seems so apathetic to show any emotion towards Sakura at all? They always want to say that Sasuke is so scared to show that kind of emotion, but....no. Just no. Noone is THAT afraid and if they were, they wouldn;t have agreed to a marriage in the first place unless they were forced.

My wife is not a weak woman. She really isn't. This is why I find it so hard to believe that the two of them would do husband and wife things. Sasuke would never take that type of risk. All she would have to do is put some chakra in her fist, tap him in a vital point, and he'd be super dead. Sharinnegan isn't going to save him from that. Best case scenario he uses Izanagi, and that's goodbye Mangekyo. No more Kagutsuchi for him. So he's never going to take that risk, especially since he's obviously not even attracted to her. Even if he was, it's not worth it. She's clearly kittening crazy. All it would take is for her to have a sudden delusion that he's having an affair with Karin or Naruto, which he probably actually is doing, and bam, Sasuke is now dead. So he stays far, FAR away. Like in another country far away.


Edited by DrK, 14 November 2017 - 04:57 AM.


#25 Phantom_999

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 12:20 AM

I am still trying to get to understand at how did Sasuke go with it; "Marrying" Sakura, having a kid with her, and so much....although, by looking at Naruto Gaiden, it seems like he did none of such things. There is no wedding or record of them getting married and consumating the marriage. Like I said, NH at least had this one, why couldn't Sasuke and Sakura? It is not even mentioned in any of the Hiden novels or any other source material. There is no mention anywhere of them getting married.

It seems more like Sakura just adopted his kid, plastered his symbol on her back, and said "we are husband and wife." Sasuke, unwilling to argue, just rolled with it. The less headache the better because even he knows Sakura has become crazy at this point. This is why he stays away.

Again, that Shimoneta style where she bakes her "love nector" in his cookies and other creepy ass things.

How did any of it even occur when there is nothing from Sasuke's end? That's the pathetic part. How can you love someone who just doesn't give a kitten about you? This is a real question that many pro-enders, even Analyzer here, fail to even grasp. How can they be a loving and happy couple when Sasuke seems so apathetic to show any emotion towards Sakura at all? They always want to say that Sasuke is so scared to show that kind of emotion, but....no. Just no. Noone is THAT afraid and if they were, they wouldn;t have agreed to a marriage in the first place unless they were forced.

 
I repeat. NH and SS REEKS of the whole concept of forced, loveless, arranged marriages :yes:


Edited by Phantom_999, 17 November 2017 - 12:21 AM.

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#26 DrK

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 06:46 PM

No one knows why he smiled at that point. He ultimately didn't respect her or he wouldn't have mocked her, tortured her into unconsciousness and then mocked her motivations when she WAS unconscious.

 

The highest likelihood is that he was amused at what a dumbass Naruto was.


Edited by DrK, 17 November 2017 - 06:48 PM.


#27 DrK

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 10:31 PM

He obviously wasn't scared of her strength, considering he considered her completely irrelevant to a serious fight and told her as much, dismissing her abilities cruelly. So why did he smirk after that exchange? Because Naruto was being a dumbass getting scared of it. Pretty simple.

 

Was Kishimoto using it as a lame SS moment? Sure, probably. Just like the panel where he holds her up, or the crappy NH moment where Naruto tries to run off and stop her from being caught by the IT nonsensically. But that doesn't change the logic of the situation. Sasuke was not impressed, because if he was that would mean he respects her, and he doesn't.



#28 DrK

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 07:03 AM

Same time? You understand this is a manga, right? With panels?

 

Why would Sasuke be impressed if Sakura was too weak to even be useful to him? That's the question here, not a pedantic focus on what the words "impressed" and "respect" mean. Stop doing that.

 

Eh, whatever. I read your response in the other thread where you said "There was a lack of early development of Team 7 in the manga." Your issue now isn't that you aren't a NS fan, but that you might not even be a Naruto fan at all.


Edited by DrK, 18 November 2017 - 08:15 AM.


#29 DrK

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 04:22 PM

Who was being developed in Part 1, then? Rock Lee? A sentiment that is often echoed is that the NaruSasu bond, as in their friendship, wasn't properly developed. I could understand your statement if that was what you had said. But I don't see how he could possibly have spent any more time on T7. It was all about them. How would he do more without making it longer?

 

In the context, it doesn't make sense that he would be impressed while still having no respect. You can consider the situation where someone is very good at something and they see someone who is a beginner. But they're very good for how long they have been practicing, so the experienced person is impressed and respects their ability for that reason. However, this kind of reaction would be entirely out of character for Sasuke.


Edited by DrK, 18 November 2017 - 04:32 PM.


#30 DrK

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 05:16 AM

He'd have to make it longer. That's pretty much what I'm saying, he'd have to add an arch or two to spend more time on Team 7. While that makes it better, only history knows if that would be a move that pay off. 

 

I'd also say the reaction isn't OOC, given he gives Sarada similiar in Gaiden in the final or semi-final chapter. Pretty sure there are a few others about the manga as well. But I don't really interpret "impressed" in the way you are doing so though, I just see Sasuke impressed by Sakura's sudden display of strength, which neither him or Naruto have seen from their team-mate before. 

A better example would have been using the genjutsu compliment. Since then you aren't using someone who he views completely differently, much more sentimentally, and a 15 years removed Sasuke. But w/e. You should have just argued "That was clearly his authorial intent since they ended up together" There wouldn't have been much I could have said to that. Not sure what you were thinking.



#31 DrK

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 12:46 PM

I meant that he was fifteen years older, so he would have changed a great deal from the Sasuke that we are talking about... We aren't talking about him being a bad husband right now.

 

And the one time when Sasuke went out of his way to be nice to her? In the Chunin Exams?



#32 DrK

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 11:52 PM

Sakura's personal growth. What was her character arc meant to be if she ends up with Sasuke? This was mentioned in the OP, but she's the exact same person with even more exaggerated attributes at the end that she was in part 1. And we're talking EARLY part 1. Even her developments in part 1 are lost. She is still a fangirl who would do anything for Sasuke's love and approval who has very few priorities aside from that.
 
It would be a slightly different story if she actually contributed something to Sasuke becoming redeemed, but she didn't. Naruto did 100% of the work on that end. Sakura's contributions were all towards protecting Naruto and his dream. Her efforts in regard to Sasuke were completely ineffective and she ultimately failed to turn him into a proper husband. This is depressing and disgusting on every level.
 
You can say that she found fulfillment in "mother"hood, but she's still trying to pretend like things are normal. Sakura, they aren't normal. Your obsession ultimately ruined your life and made you look like a fool to all your friends and everyone reading this manga. I can't imagine what your parents think, but it can't be good. They're probably headed towards an early grave due to your ridiculous life choices. You were their only child and this is how you turned out?


Edited by DrK, 26 November 2017 - 12:04 AM.


#33 Tsuki Hoshino

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 12:29 AM

The odd thing is, there is a reason why they say Women look for men like their fathers, and we've seen Sasuke is NOTHING like Sakura's dad. But Naruto is. I mean its just another sign that SS was not the direction Kishimoto originally wanted to go in since he took all that time to draw similarities between Sakura and Kushina and then with Kizashi and Naruto. I don't see how anymore blatant that could be. 

Both Sakura and Hinata essentially defy that rather common tendency, With Hinata its understandable i suppose given that her dad is a total jackass. But for Sakura, not so much. She's depicted as having a pretty normal relationship with him.  :headscratch: 

 


Edited by Tsuki Hoshino, 26 November 2017 - 12:31 AM.

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#34 DrK

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 12:30 AM

The odd thing is, there is a reason why they say Women look for men like their fathers, and we've seen Sasuke is NOTHING like Sakura's dad. But Naruto is. I mean its just another sign that SS was not the direction Kishimoto originally wanted to go in since he took all that time to draw similarities between Sakura and Kushina and then with Kizashi and Naruto. I don't see how anymore blatant that could be. 

Both Sakura and Hinata essentially defy that rather common tendency, With Hinata its understandable i suppose give that her dad is a total jackass. But for Sakura, not so much. She's depicted as having a pretty normal relationship with him.  :headscratch: 

 

Also no attempt to depict Sakura's parents at all in the post canon because them interacting with Sasuke would be ridiculous and hilarious. I'd actually like to see them try that honestly

 

Remember how I was going to kill your daughter?! Haha!

Oh Sasuke-kun, you're the son we always wanted but never had.


Edited by DrK, 26 November 2017 - 12:32 AM.


#35 Tsuki Hoshino

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 12:33 AM

I guarantee those are some rather silent family dinners. 

I Imagine Kizashi would have tried making his usual jokes, but Sasuke being the social retard he is can't even muster up the politeness to fake laugh -shudders- 


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#36 DrK

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 12:35 AM

I guarantee those are some rather silent family dinners. 

I Imagine Kizashi would have tried making his usual jokes, but Sasuke being the social retard he is can't even muster up the politeness to fake laugh -shudders- 

Based on how her parents were characterized, I don't think they would disown Sakura, but they would be so ashamed and embarrassed for her. I mean, this girl passed up on the hero of the entire shinobi world to be what amounts to just a single mother, because the guy is never around. Also there's many other things wrong with the guy besides that.



#37 Tsuki Hoshino

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 12:38 AM

I wouldn't say "Ashamed." but definitely embarrassed, and they would probably pity her a lot. I mean, most people who have daughters with super kitten Son-in-Laws are sympathetic to daughter, but they also no holds barred bash the husband at every opportunity. Even right in front of their face....


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#38 DrK

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 12:39 AM

I wouldn't say "Ashamed." but definitely embarrassed, and they would probably pity her a lot. I mean, most people who have daughters with super kitten Son-in-Laws are sympathetic to daughter, but they also no holds barred bash the husband at every opportunity. Even right in front of their face....

Well, if they knew the story behind what happened with her and Sasuke, they'd definitely be ashamed. But Sakura would probably keep it from them like I said in the topic.



#39 Tsuki Hoshino

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 12:44 AM

Well yea if they literally saw all the times he disregarded her safety, and actually tried to kill her, pretty sure the shame they might feel is in themselves, asking what they did to raise such a masochistic kid. 


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#40 DrK

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 12:46 AM

Well yea if they literally saw all the times he disregarded her safety, and actually tried to kill her, pretty sure the shame they might feel is in themselves, asking what they did to raise such a masochistic kid. 

She was the member of Team 7 with no painful background. Her life was so easy that she could worry about things like getting Sasuke to fall for her to begin with. But then all the battles she survived should have matured her. Instead, she just purposely blows up her life just so that she can have pain to complain about, when the rest of it should have been smooth sailing for her being married to the Hokage. How ridiculous.

 

She talked about how she would have taken on Sasuke's pain and she was sad she wasn't able to. So instead she just hurts herself for no reason over a guy who doesn't want her.


Edited by DrK, 26 November 2017 - 12:47 AM.





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