Bail o' Lies

Speaking objectively and I mean really objetively here:

I always thought Hinata was the Red herring of Naruto's romantic life, she had very little interactions with him, her confession was never adressed, neither mentioned again in the manga, her arc own arc I thought initially was about her becoming stronger and someone who can walk besides Naruto, even as her own flipping wife however, we see that she will never go against him even if she believes that his absence is problematic for her children, now hear me out I personally never liked Hinata during the manga run but is funny how she became a housewife (negating all of the stuff she said about wanting to become stronger) and not only that, she prefers to takes Naruto side even when she herselfs knows her own flipping kids are unhappy with the situation.

She was, and also honestly not even that. She originally was just a girl that befriends Naruto so we be interested in his first round fight in the tournament. Once she did that her role in Naruto was complete, she was then just a tertiary background character. But then the new editors told Kishi of her popularity and constantly tried to push her into more scene. Some even thought that that hinata should replace Sakura as the love interest as well as the heroine, and some thought that her confession did just that. Kishimoto resisted at first but in the end gave up and did what they wanted. Now he stuck being the editor of the sequel because they fear the if he isn't involve that Boruto would completely collapse.

That's kind of what I mean by headcanons.  They're in love with the idea of Hinata at its most basic conceptual level, completely ignoring her lack of development in the actual series and inflating her character in excess when she actually does something slightly useful.

 

Basically, what they love isn't Hinata but their fanfiction version of Hinata. 

Everyone that likes Hinata are in love with the concept of Hinata. Kishimoto barely did anything with her, and Sp only cared about making her the prefect love interest (not a good character in of herself). Since she has so little character in the manga they had to build her character in their minds. So she becomes very personal for the person because they have molded Hinata into what they want her to be. That's why everyone that likes her are normally very fanatical about her.  Because they have each personally molded her into the perfect girl for themselves. So when we are criticizing Hinata we are also criticizing them.

Of course, in the case of Devil is a Part-Timer!, this tactic backfired completely because most fans of the anime  version seem to hate Chiho from my experience in the fandom while they find Emilia a far more compelling character and enjoy her complicated relationship with Maou.  But I had no idea that Naoto Hosoda (the director of the anime) harbored such biases. I guess that also explains why Maou and Emi's adopted 'daughter' Alas=Ramus never appeared in the anime since she helps to further develop Maou and Emi's relationship in the novels.

 

As for Noelle, given her popularity in Japan and her importance to the plot,  I'm not too worried about her. Pierrot literally can't afford another Tokyo Ghoul incident of manipulating or altering canon since their cashcow, Boruto, is drying up fast.

I haven't watched that much of that anime but even from what I saw Chiho comes off as very bland, while Emilia came off as far more interesting.

I don't think they can afford it. Tokyo Ghoul happened before the fall of Naruto. So they were arrogant enough to think that they could do what ever they wanted, and it wouldn't matter because the company always has Naruto to fall back on. This lead to the mangaka from what I understand restarting/made a sequel/did a time skip (or something like that) his manga so they could try again and they still kittened up. Which has badly damaged Toyko Ghoul ability to expand without an anime. If SP kittens up Black Clover then after that, the collapse of Naruto, the failure to launch that was Boruto, Bleach, and their screw ups with Toyko Ghoul; no matter how strong their relationship Shueisha is, they not going to trust them with anymore shounen battle manga. Also does Noelle even have any rivals that SP can try to use to take her place? What the nun? Maybe a cousin? That dancer?

So SP can't afford it, and thankfully they don't have really anyone to replace her...unless they do something like "the clone" and make their own girl they want to be the heroine and the love interest. But they would be complete morons to do that.

Well, I know the premise behind it, but yeah, you put a lot of thought to it. It's not hard to follow since they have been saying it out loud, rather than subtle. I just find it odd how characters are on cards, including the mass murderers. It's not even fictional (within the world). It's odd and forceful to get some plot thread going.

I did not put much thought into that this stuff is blatant and un-creative. Granted I probably thought more about it and put more meaning into the story and those cards then the creators did. But trade have very little to do other then start their friendship.

They didn't bring it up 5 chapters ago when the movie did. So they need to do it now. Since the first volume also included Cups one shot blatantly saying he Orochimaru's son/experiment and he exist to worship Bolt. Remember all that matter in the end is Hinata got Naruto; so who cares about anything else. Also the chapter did basically say Orochimaru still and more importantly frequently switches bodies.

I tried that myself and there is literally nothing interesting about this series. No interesting team dynamics,  no interesting characters (apart from Sarada a couple of times) and no interesting plot lines to look forward to in the future. This Kara group is basically a poor man's Akatsuki. There's just no passion or inspiration in this manga. It feels like it's written by a bunch of otakus just there for a paycheck. And I predict Kara won't be the last of the rehashed concepts from the original. No wonder Kishimoto is just sitting on the royalty checks these days.

What the ten chapters of rehashing a movie that was nearly a year old before they even started adapting it, nor the 5 chapter long story that any other manga or anime would have told in one week because of how standard and basic it is? Or it is the fact that after a year and a half they are still in the prologue.

...Oh my. Wow. They really haven't interacted that much to have any team dynamic other then Bolt is a jack ass, Cups worship him, and Salad is a Tsudere (switch between being annoyed with him, to sexually aroused by him) despite all this time. Salad's ability to be an interesting character comes more from the gaiden and the movie then the manga so far. At the moment like I said before she just the anti-Sakura -everything fans used to complain about Sakura she is not-.

Interesting plot lines? We already know the ending. Rehashing Naruto and Sasuke with Bolt and Nail. Next arc rehasing the akatsuki.

The creators are otaku...Most likely. Their mangaka image/symbol/shorthand is creepy compared to all the other shounen jump makanga which are cute, and one of the few author notes I read of their was one of them talking about a new game. Also the artist may have been the guy that pissed off the japanese fan on twitter after the ending, or one of the assistance that was a really big hinata supporter. Also he wanted to do his own version of Naruto instead of the sequel. The other guy is just someone from the light novel division.

As for rehash concept from Naruto: Konohamaru & Inari/Richie Rich, Akatsuki/Kara, Salad/Sakura, Cups/Sai, Nail/Sasuke, Tattoo/Kurama & Curse Seal, Molding Cannibal/Gato, Sasuke/Piccolo/Kakashi, Konohamaru/Iruka, and so on. The brain eating is the closet thing they have had to an original idea so far, and I'm pretty sure i have seen that in at least 6 other anime.

He wanted to leave so he could do his sci fi manga. They won't let him. So he just stick around and probably gives them some ideas every once and a while.

If he really had unknown feelings for her deep down, her confession should've triggered them either immediately or after some deep thinking. TL should've relied on previous moments between them such as that, instead they made new filler ones that contradicted canon and that's why the movie isn't a sequel but more an alternative ending.

 

Her confession had no real impact in the long run. 2 years later there's still nothing between them. Why would he hang out with Hinata? Walk home with her? I once compared that with Naruto and Sakura and Analyzer said they hang out because they have a warm friendship. Which means during the timeskip him and Hinata didn't even have that LMAO:L

She has been in love with him since she was three according to the anime and the last. Yet it took 15 years to finally get together only with Sakura pushing them together. If Sakura didn't help, Hinata would have still thought the scarf was a gift given to him by some other girl, and never done anything. 

 

1: So not having him be able to do it is fine, really, sets up a limitation. 

 

2: The Second isn't really true, Kishimoto had creative power over the movie, even though he didn't write it. He had more  say than in RTN, and his say grew in Boruto as he wrote the script.

 

3: I'll re-watch later, but we can't interpret tone that way. 

 

4: I did, I watched the episode, mind. It's a build up of gradually showing the Villain. It's fine, though it's also fine not to like it, as you do. Not trying to take that away from you. 

1. Me Why doesn't Sasuke use his lighting chakra to charge his phone?

Analyzer: He too strong his lighting would instantly destory the device.

Me: Points out that it is commonly use in other story to the point of banality. Points out Sasuke strength is weaker then natural lighting on his own so he wouldn't overpower it. Even then shouldn't he have enough skill to control it?

Analyzer: Well then he is too weak to it then.

Me: People with far weaker lighting abilities have been able to do it. Why not he?

Analyzer:

2. In interviews kishimoto has said he basically let them do what ever they wanted because they were so enthusiastic about the movie. He was involved in Road of the ninja because as he said it allowed him to do the stories he wasn't allowed to do in the manga. He wrote the Boruto movie.

Episode 20: "The Boy with the Sharingan." So this is the episode that will have "the true meaning of a bento" in it right? SO they will try and soften nH this week by either giving Bolt a flashback of Hinata or have Naruto make comments or think of Hinata which he didn't in the original manga. Along with the general softening of SS.

It starts with Sasuke wandering around in a forest about to be attack by celebii. Wow his hair looks generic. He sees celebii has the sharigan and his clan symbol before the boy disappears.

OK onto Salad. Who is running around the village while have a flashback to last episode. Apparently they think audience will forget what happened a week ago and need to be remind of what happen. Why does every character have such flat expressionless faces?

Opening.

OK to the Hokage office where Naruto will get Sasuke's messenger bird since he doesn't have a cell phone. Oh wait now he has a cell phone but most of the time he in places he can't charge it... doesn't he have lighting chakra? So they call Kakashi who's scar now constantly changes position where it is on his eye now apparently -its hard not to notice even for me-. Now Shin talking to his celebii clone. So salad comes to the door just when after calling Kakashi when he mentions he plans on meeting up with Sasuke. In the original their was some conflict in this since the graduation exams where in a few days and if Naruto goes he might miss it which would upset bolt. But that was moved back so that was dropped. Actually *looking at the gaiden* Shizune was actually there as well who was the one that brought up the exams. Well she is a woman. So I guess they didn't think a woman was good enough to be one of Bolt's father's advisers.

Now they have added Salad getting her bag from the hospital with dramatic music playing. She looks at her mother. Oh they just gave her the outfit she wore in the gaiden therefor the outfit she was wearing before yahagi made up his new outfits. Oh great fat filler is coming along still oh right she brought along chips since that is part of her  joke, and the whole looking for real father bit. Wait why is he telling Shikamaru to tell Bolt he is sorry the exams aren't till next week or is he intentionally hoping to leave before he get their with the bento? Well without the exams it must be the latter. So he is intentionally leaving before his son can deliver his wife's cooking? *laughs* So Naruto leaves and Salad drag along fat filler, but fat filler wasn't expecting that so she trips them both. Salad ask if she alright while looking incredibly angry. Most of this is from the gaiden. Salad decides to use the bento as an excuses to chase after Naruto and ask bolt for it. He plans on returning it to his mother. They added that she always make lunches for him instead of he knew that bolt was coming with the bento from the gaiden. They also drop him saying it not like he was coming here on purpose, and instead he says always again implying she always makes Naruto lunch. yet all we have ever seen in his office is Ramen cups and booze. Fat filler comes in to be comic relief by saying she will eat it and when Cups pulls her away she thinks he is asking her out. Salad talks about "the importance of a bento." oh it's only an image but they change if from Hinata looking "sad(?)" to her actually making the bento. The little ten tail then see Salad, and shin sends celebii after them. They actually hide his eye. Why?

So fat filler can't run, and celebii attacks.Huh? Salad says only she and her father are the only uhicha left. In the manga she mentions her mother told her only Sasuke was left. Can I just avoid talking about fat filler? Unlike the manga Naruto just appears instead of trying to out run them so he won't have to eat his wife's cooking. So Kurama fights the celebii while Naruto just stand there. Oh! Now they reveal shin's sharingan! Fat filler. Oh the best and only good part of the entire story starts; Naruto and Salad interacting. So far not as good as it was in the manga. OK they added in Naruto calling the food delicious and Salad saying he should thank Bolt. Naruto talks about Sasuke.

It ends with Sasuke pulling out his sword on Salad.

@Bail o' Lies

The calm and assertive bail suddenly laugh his ass off, now the way you laugh ... Umbridge finally able to tickles you 

Anyone debating against Umbridge will definitely starting to lose themselves

It just her argument and that line were so poorly thought out that its hilarious.

If you don't know she was trying to (forgetting the exact term) redirect or change the crux of the argument or the discussion from Sakura defending SS (the romantic relationship of Sasuke and Sakura) to Sakura defending the romantic relationship of Sasuke and Sakura (SS). This was so she could try to control the argument or to show how wrong I was for not understanding what the true argument was all along. But. It falls flat because all she did was change from an abbreviation into what the abbreviation means.

 

They still watch it anticipating the arrival of the original cast if they continue to do so, duh. Personally, I gave up on Boruto after the 3rd episode. It felt like a chore watching it. 

 

NaruSasu doesn't exsist??????? I don't even ship them that much, but you cannot deny the ardor fans have around this pairing. Have you seen other sites with an avid support for Naruto and it's pairings, such as Tumblr, pixiv, FanFiction??? Cause they're massive fandom would tell you otherwise. Multitudes of art and media are centered around these two; they are the main stars. Yaoi is an absolute fan magnet as well. (e.g. Free!, Yuri on Ice!!) NaruSasu would be no different. 

 

It doesn't have to be canon for people to like it, like NaruSaku, SasuHina, KakaIru. People can ship whatever they want and spin whatever moments into something they like. It's not gonna kill anyone.

 

Who tf said I was criticizing? I was stating the obvious. I did not call out any faults and I did not "attack" him. I don't care how Kishimoto makes his money. He could be selling bootleg Gucci bags on 5th avenue; it's his life, his job, and his money, just as how I have my own life, job and money.

 

It's all about money at the end of the day, is what I'm saying. As a matter of fact, I'd say he's blessed to have that kind of job and fortune, to be making money in general. So good for him, but is he getting mine though? lol no, don't even think he needs it anyways.

Boruto is a chore to watch, and is even more so when you have to write a summary about the episode.

Didn't after The Boruto movie they make an audio track with Naruto and Sasuke Japanese voice actor voice acting a SNS fanfiction?

KakaIru is actually the biggest pairing fandom out there from what I understand.

So who paid for Sakura's house and who is paying for Sarada's living expenses? Is Sasuke canonically a dead beat dad?

In the manga we don't see Sakura have a job, but in the anime she works at the hospital. Either way it clearly didn't pay enough for her house since she is still still paying off the loan after 12 years. As for "Sasuke sending money to the family" I put that problem as the same as "do nH"s kids have the byakugan." No at first because kishimoto didn't put much thought into it, but once someone ask yes and there will be a scene showing it because it makes the characters look too kitten if they don't.

For God's sake: he pulled his sword towards his daughter when he met her for the first time in years. Cause nothing screams "I love you, I missed you & I'm so sorry" quite like that.

Again: one moment of kindness does not erase how he's thought about her for half his life, sis... He still left after he saved them too, like wow.

Then where was Sakura, Naruto, Kakashi, and the rest of his Konoha friends to help ease that pain? Why is he alone still? Why? Must he work it out himself still?

Then he hasn't changed; he still hasn't accepted the love and help offered by them. He should not even have family in the first place if he's still got some leftover angst from 12+ years ago!!!

Lmao what??? How in the world is SS interesting? What could possibly be so interesting about a man not returning to his wife and kid, leaving them in debt? Because it's interesting at how goddamn sad it is, that's what!!!

Idk about you but I like couples that you know, talk!!! To one another!!! As much as possible!!!!! And hang out!!!!! Go on dates!!!! Shown in love!!!! Taking care of one another!!!! Not killing each other!!! And leaving one another for a long period of time!!!!!!!!

Girl, it's like nailing Jell-o to a wall with you!!!! Omg!!!

He more interested in Naruto's brat then his own daughter when she talking to him.

Kishimoto says the reason he never write about SS is that its too clique and boring when asked.

At least you can freeze jell-o or keep it in its container.

I hate the fact people are always blaming only Sasuke but nobody talks about Sakura's blame

After 699 Sasuke made it obvious he didn't want to live in the village however Sakura continued dreaming about getting married to him even tho she knew Sasuke would not be in the village even after married, Sakura probably knew sasuke was not very read to be a father and husband but this didn't stop her of trying to force her feelings on him

"Sasuke should not start a family"

We don't even know how it happened, maybe after coming back to the village for a few weeks Sasuke just felt very guilty for leaving Sakura waiting for him and seeing how she was depressed because of him Sasuke just slept with Sakura before leaving again as a way to say sorry ? maybe Sasuke didn't even wanted sakura to get pregnant neither marry her

I don't even doubt Sakura purposely choose a right day and took a lot of medicines to make sure she would get pregnant at their first night and then have "something" to hold Sasuke forever and then after she got pregnant Sasuke had no other choice but marry Sakura

They are both awful yes but at least Sakura is raising their daughter. Even if none of us like SS the fact that he never visited his daughter and wife is very kitten. If they never got married, and if Sakura got pregnant out of wedlock? Then there would be less obligation on Saske's part because it was Sakura who decided to keep the baby in hopes she and Sasuke could one day be together if she raise the baby well enough.

Then again it could be that Sasuke found out he got Sakura pregnant and allowed her to take his clan's name, and she thought that means they were married.

I'm still trying to wrap around my head on why Sakura was going out to the dangerous village pregnant.

Salad couldn't be born in the village because then they would've had a birth certificate ending the gaiden's plot very quickly and also since Salad was potentially going to be Karin's daughter until a large number of SS fans threaten to leave the series permanently if that happened.

Episode 19: Sarada Uchiha. This is the start of the gaiden right? So in theory this shouldn't take too long. Hopefully.

So the episode does admittedly start of strong with a brush painting the uchiha symbol in red. Before showing the symbol on Salad's back and we see her watching the hokage monument and someone is paintin...oh god they are rewriting episode 700 aren't they? Thankfully, no. Bolt is lashing out like a spoiled brat and painting "idiot" on Naruto's face. We see Shikamaru and his son training. Sai is also training with his son. It's all the parents training with their kids. This did happen in the gaiden first chapter as well but Naruto was playing hide and go seek with his son in that. So to keep the narrative of naruto neglecting his son they actually changed it into something more negative. So bolt had to do this to get Naruto to spend time with him. Salad sends Naruto the wrong way when bolt is hiding like the manga. Shikamaru catches him...yep this is different from the gaiden and far more negative. In the gaiden Shikamaru only talks to Bolt; here he shadow binds him and then orders his son to get Naruto.

Opening

So fat filler talks to salad who is moping. Wait the graduation exams were just around the corner in the gaiden here they aren't coming up soon? Oh here's where they add that what does a ninja mean question that the gaiden eventually dropped. God she looks too much like Ino. Much of this is from the manga. Please at the very least could they drop the looking for her real dad gag I don't want to suffer through that again for ten weeks. I'll even pick a different nickname for her if they don't...NOOOO!!! THEY ARE DOING IT! NOOO!!! TEN WEEKS OF THE SAME UNFUNNY GAG OVER AND OVER AGAIN!!! Whelp. She still is and stays Fat Filler then.

Oh there the picture frame that is going to start this arc. So when Sakura going to destroy her home again? After SS is torn a new kitten again? So Sakura comes home and notices Salad is crying. Thinking something made be wrong with her eye she quickly goes over concern to check. She very serious about Salad's eyes, but doesn't seem to have much worry in her face, as much as strictness throughout this entire scene. So Salad ask about the glasses bit and here where they tear it a new kitten but instead of doing when Sakura doing laundry outside during dinner. Dammit no, it just ended on that question not being answered.

She goes to the library to learn more about the uchiha. She can't access some files for some reason.

Oh now they are doing the laundry scene. They changed it so Salad and Sakura are separated by a sheet while Salad is asking her question instead of looking into Sakura's eyes when she can't answer Salad simple questions. Then take it down when Salad ask if Sakura is even Sasuke's wife. God they don't display much emotion on Sakura's face keeping it almost completely flat. They soften a lot of this scene including how rapidly Salad was asking the questions, Sakura face during it, and even Sakura outburst when she can't handle it. The house isn't even destoried that made Sakura faint in the manga. Instead she apologizes for the outburst, and when Salad ask even more question she just touches her forehead clearly to remind people for the forehead poke. Oh now it's destroyed.

They also changed Shizune from checking on Sakura in her house to in front of Sakura's damaged house. they even sent her the hospital instead of just resting in Shizune's house. Salad found the photo. And changed again so Shizune see it while Salad is next to Sakura's bedside. They also make Shizune say Sakura is her mother instead of not being able to answer in the manga.

Then the Choji's family bit. Oh Fat filler was once sick and she recalls a shadowy man giving her mother the medicine to cure her. Of course it's her father in his slim down form. So they added this to justify her gag.

Then ends with Sasuke in a forest fighting the celebi kid.

This entire episode is trying to soft the negative anti SS first chapter of the gaiden, even the change in the Naruto's & Bolt's interaction is to show that not everyone is able to spend time with their father unlike the gaiden where Naruto was spending time with him.

James those interviews that person used were the ones people stated were often mistranslated. The person outright said that they were ignoring interviews that were considered false by the general fanbase. The general fanbase is now pro ending nH fans, so any interview that contradicts the narrative of Hinata was always the heroine is clearly false. So they focused on the ones that were negative to Sakura and avoided the ones where kishimoto made either demeaning comments about Hinata or that she only became the love interest at this time or that.

I think you already know by now, but Kishimoto was contradictory regarding the establishment of pairings.

 

He said he decided early on for NH then in another interview he said from the middle. Another interview, he said he felt pity for Hinata. Another one where he said he decided NS early on. Another one where he said SS is toxic. Another one where he said he decided on NH cause he thought that it would look bad for Sakura to be with Naruto if she moved on from Sasuke.

These are what I remember for now.

 

As you see, either he's lying, doesn't remember what he said in each interview, or doesn't care.

All these from what I recall are true which is one of the reasons why the fans particularly the Japanese fans have left the fanbase. Since all the contradictory statements means Kishimoto is lying about something.

No offense with what I'm going to say .

You need to be factual, not going in circles, and not putting your own projection into what's right and wrong in the manga.

I'm saying that cause you've shown to not fully know what and how consistency is, good writing, storytelling techniques of manga, and characters' consistency with their roles while being fairly stubborn with thinking that most of what's said is about shipping pairings.

- He said that about NS in two inetrviews. Look it up.  Also, one of them is mentioned above a few posts by chance.

- Yes, he said SS is toxic in an interview. Look it up or ask Bail to give it to you.

- Sakura moving on from Sasuke would've helped her character as it was seen in events throughout the manga that her character suffered from.

- The narrative you pointed out to was not a narrative. It was a mention of possibilities.

I don't have the source for the SS pairing interview. We had a thread about it when it first came out over two years ago. It was the interview close to the opening of the Boruto movie. He had another one with his brother about the gaiden where he was actually trying with Salad to prove he wasn't sexist because he was upset about people claiming that he was once.

 

This is all speculation, there's zero evidence that Kishimoto thinks like this at all?

 

What if situations with the Author going to the past or re-doing the situation is just speculation.

 

Personally, no, I don't think he would do this. And no, Sarada was not made just for marriage.

Yes, clearly the word "probably" and "I would imagine" would imply a person was speculating. Brilliant deduction. Thank you for point that out.

Yes, SS happened because of pairing the spares and making a daughter for nh's son to marry. Kishimoto decided to add to her in the gaiden as well as turn into a ten chapter miniseries from it original one shot because he wanted to try to show he was not a sexist.

https://someone-who-...cters-immensely

Speaking of which, I've always thought that making a character arc only revolve around his/her crush is one of the stupidest things a writer could make, it was always one of the reasons I hate characters like Serena and Hinata, because on the chance they get together with his/her crush her character just "dies". Hinata is the walking proof of that not even SP know what to do with her anymore, she was always all about "Naruto-Kun" well she married him, made babies with him, there is really nothing else for her to do, she would be better off dead, ( though I could argue that for Naruto and Sakura too BUT for completely different reasons)

 

Was there not an interview where when asked what made Hinata so likable/popular, Kishi responded that he didn't know why and thought it was because of her boobs?

 

But I agree, 100%

You mixing interviews; a lot of his earlier interviews he stated he did not understand why she was so popular, and it was the one where he calls SS toxic he made the comment about the breast when one of the guys said she was his favorite character.

I was under the impression Naruto and Hinata were "so in love" they'd have 19 kids and counting. Wasn't that What SP was going for? 

Kishimoto only made two. One a poor NS left over child with really bad hair, and another a mutant mixture of Hinata and Naruto's traits. They can't make anymore kids until after the chunin exams, and they would have to force the manga (which has kishi as the "editor") to make more. Also they are very lazy, predictable, and un-creative bunch.

I think I'm starting to understand why they had Naruto turn into a short haired jackass. Sakura balances out his playful / happy-go-lucky nature, but Hinata doesn't, so they had to rewrite his characteristics to the point where we get headscratching material like this:

 

As if Naruto would ever act like that.

 

This, on the other hand, comes off as natural:

 

 

According to the latest episode it should be Hinata that angry, and Both Naruto and Bolt should be on their hand and knees begging her for her forgiveness and mercy.