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The Problem With Sasuke And Why Everything Is Broken


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#21 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 10:29 PM

No I'm not kidding. The truth is we've never seen the Naruto and Sasuke great friendship that Kishimoto keeps alluding too. We saw them as teammates. Yes you are correct Sasuke did "sacrifice" his life to save Naruto against Haku. But that doesn't mean that Naruto and Sasuke are best friends. Kakashi was willing to do the same against Zabuza. Does that mean Naruto, Sakura and Sasuke are BFF with Kakashi? Sorry but no.
Naruto and Sakura are actually friends. We saw how their bond grew, what they are willing to do for each other, how selfless they are towards each other, they spend time together, etc.
Naruto and Sasuke on the other hand. We saw them training together, fight together and then Sasuke started to get jealous because Naruto started to be more powerful and then Sasuke left. And later on we got flashbacks of Naruto watching Sasuke's back and wanting to talk to him and hangout with him. What a magnificent friendship. Now I'm not denying there wasn't a bond between Naruto and Sasuke. I'm just saying it's not as powerful as Kishimoto keeps reminding us.
You know what's interesting? It's the fact that within the story itself we have moments that tell us that the bond between Naruto and Sasuke doesn't make sense. Jiraiya telling Naruto "Do friends do this to each other" at the end of part 1. Sakura telling Naruto that chasing after Sasuke is just plain stupid. Sasuke telling Naruto "WTF is wrong with you?" so the writer is aware that NaruSasu doesn't really make sense. Yet he keeps shoving the bond between those two down your throats.

Doesnt make any sense, Sasuke and Naruto were friends and what you recited about Naruto and Sakura and claiming that is friendship it would literally make Sakura to be the only Naruto has as friend and some really few other people like Shikamaru.
What about Naruto and tenten, he does actually consider her as his friend and we have 0 panels on their interactions and bond development.
Sasuke cut his friendship with Naruto after he departed from the village.
It's like saying Obito and Kakashi werent friends.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 24 April 2014 - 10:31 PM.

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#22 Strangelove

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 12:20 AM

You have a point there, It would have been better if the rivalry was based upon surpassing one another constantly. Naruto being always one step ahead of Sasuke, while Sasuke gains a new powerup, Naruto's training puts him further ahead, and so and so. Until Sasuke reaches the limits of his strength, and faces Naruto, but even with all of his might, he looses, because his ideal of power is fake.

 

Remember back in part 1...Haku's words. Those who protect someone important to them become increasingly strong, even far beyond his limits. That is when I realized that no matter how much powerups or 1UP's Sasuke gets, he will always be one step behind Naruto.

 

So his powerups don't really bother me, for in this story they don't represent true power, and when they're clash finally comes, even with all that power, Sasuke will loose, which will make it an even more dramatic end.


Edited by Strangelove, 25 April 2014 - 12:22 AM.

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#23 Inferno180

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 01:18 AM

Despite the issues with Sasuke,

 

I feel that Kishi is at least doing, trying in part to make use of him. If you ask me, compared to some other mangas right now, the mess of the story, or sasuke himself, believe it or not this doesn't bother me as much kubo with bleach currently, or rather Oda with One Piece.

 

Bleach has always been well, downsloping after Aizen was beaten, no great battle. The story is more like a series of clashes, there was never any long term goal, for the good guys anyways, the bad guy azien wanted to become the soul king, but he is gone now, then we got a regain powers arc, then this sudden final arc with surprise, a group of quinces. I mean bleach is a good series but its just been here and there. Really I'm not suprised at all the stuff happening, its just a series of fights with others and yeah they all got stronger like Rukia getting Banki or Kenpachi finally getting his sword released. I mean there is development, but theres no connective overall plot, it all ended more or less back when aizen was dealt with. Its really just well disjointed, the series is more like dragonball z, theres no overall plot, its just a series of clashes, I mean there was a long story at first but it ended with the fullbringer and the thousand year war arc which is bleach's final arc. The final villian is sudden, its going to be not much to say, just Ichigo facing that Bach Quicny king.

 

One piece, oh boy, yes I criticize this manga a lot. I mean its good, the adventure is nice, Oda really fleshes out his characters. Among the things I hate in this series? I hate how all the women are drawn to be the same, and really, Oda just plain takes too god damned long with his story. No seriously, I mean at least Kishi I feel made a good balance between short term and long term plot elements, at least most of his stuff falls into place. Things were gradually revealed at a well put out pace, he didnt just sit on one story element for 5+ years and just leave it behind until it suddenly came up later. The stuff with the sage and eye of the moon plan, the akasuti, the aspect of sasuke leaving in part 1, all those elements went together. Same with naruto mastering Kurama or the rasengan, the fight with Itachi bringing more light to the story.

 

Seriously, for one piece, its been a mess. Long term story elements like the 3 superweapons, the void century, dr vegapunk, the revolutionary army, dragon, blackbeard, the 4 emperors. People want to see these things yet it has been years, freaking years since they were even mentioned! The story is still only in arc 3 of part 2! We were supposed to get some fight against one of the emperors soon, but that was mentioned about oh, 4 or so years ago. The only knowledge of these longterm plots? Only 1 superweapon was revealed, the mermaid princess. Everything else is still a big mystery, maybe we will learn more about the revolutionary army with Sabo back but its still just taking its time. Really Oda's style is simple, the gang finds an island, trouble is there, they cause a ruckus, they fight, they win and celebrate, they move on with tidbits of differences here and there, nothing for the long term focus. And they are going to head to the samurai's island or giants island at some point and sadly theres no telling how many years it will take for these to even occur! Its like 1 or now 2 years to finish 1 arc! Oda does nothing in the long term and well, this is going to leave people so lost they need to go plunging back into the material burried years ago. I mean anyone remember bellemy? A short term hardly worth anything of a mention character back before they went to skypeia? Yeah he spontaneously reappeared in the recent arc and just went away again. Really imagine kishi's infrequent use of Hinata but multiply it by 4, thats how often Oda touches on the long term plots.

 

The development personality wise isn't all that engaging on my opinion, its so slow, its just, I'd be ready to say, please Oda, get kitten done. These plot elements took so long to implement, its getting harder to imagine the payoff. I mean I honestly, I didnt cry when Ace died, we didnt know ace that much, we didnt see him that much, we learned more about him after he died. And thats suppose to make us sympathize with him more? Now Sabo suddenly came back too. Really, I know people complained about the war arc in naruto, but in one piece, from the time Kuma seperated the gang, it was nothing but luffy the entire time until part 1 ended, that whole cast, main cast shafted, put aside just so luffy had the spotlight. I honestly didnt like it.

 

I mean Kishi is no perfect writer, he has some continuty problems, otherwise its just screw the rules, madara's excuse is he is superpowered he has hashirama's healing powers and is part zetsu so he can just instantly repair himself. Other breaking the boundaries stuff is a bit annoying. But at least kishi set up plot elements, long term ones and is using them. At least as I see it he wrote for both the short term and long term which is good, Kubo doesn't have a long term plot in his story while Oda's is slower than a slug.

 

Personally I think Kishi at least has better pacing in his story than the other 2, because its going to be years, freaking years before anything interesting or big occurs in one piece again. That series wont end until I'm about 57 or so at this rate.



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#24 rocci

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 06:45 AM

It's simple, because naruto vs sasuke is the last fight in this manga.

#25 Nostradamus

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 08:21 PM

Doesnt make any sense, Sasuke and Naruto were friends and what you recited about Naruto and Sakura and claiming that is friendship it would literally make Sakura to be the only Naruto has as friend and some really few other people like Shikamaru.
What about Naruto and tenten, he does actually consider her as his friend and we have 0 panels on their interactions and bond development.
Sasuke cut his friendship with Naruto after he departed from the village.
It's like saying Obito and Kakashi werent friends.

OK let me rephrase that. Naruto and Sasuke were acquaintances and then they became teammates. That doesn't make them BFFs. There was a bond there but it was never explored, it was never showed to us it was just told to us.

We saw Naruto and Sasuke trained together, fought together and protected each other. We never saw Naruto and Sasuke as friends like we did with Madara and Hashirama. We've just been told from Naruto's point of view and Sasuke's point of view that they consider each other friends.

Naruto considers anyone who saved him from loneliness a friend, however that doesn't mean that person is actually Naruto's friend.

Naruto and Sasuke had the potential to became a real bond but it was abandoned. And it became Naruto's constant chase after something that never truly "blossomed".

 

 

@Everyone No one knows how to split a comment in multiple parts in order to reply to specific parts of it? Like Nate did.


Edited by Nostradamus, 25 April 2014 - 08:22 PM.

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Which I've told you - time and time again - is dangerous! There will never be consensus, son, among those you have helped to ascend. They will all differ in their views of what it means to be free. The peace you so desperately seek does not exist.
 
These men are united now by a common cause. But when this battle is finished they will fall to fighting amongst themselves about how best to ensure control. In time it will lead to war. You will see.


#26 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 08:30 PM

OK let me rephrase that. Naruto and Sasuke were acquaintances and then they became teammates. That doesn't make them BFFs. There was a bond there but it was never explored, it was never showed to us it was just told to us.
We saw Naruto and Sasuke trained together, fought together and protected each other. We never saw Naruto and Sasuke as friends like we did with Madara and Hashirama. We've just been told from Naruto's point of view and Sasuke's point of view that they consider each other friends.
Naruto considers anyone who saved him from loneliness a friend, however that doesn't mean that person is actually Naruto's friend.
Naruto and Sasuke had the potential to became a real bond but it was abandoned. And it became Naruto's constant chase after something that never truly "blossomed".

Sasuke considered him as his friend aswell, i dont get what you're trying to tell me, the story contradicts and yes they had moments that resembles "Madara" and "Hashirama" like their training of chakra control.
Sasuke considered Naruto as his friend and it was Naruto the same however he cut that bond off,wht you're saying is that they could be great friends on which Sasuke considers deeply and that is another story.

Their relationship currently resembles Hashirama and Madara now.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 25 April 2014 - 08:35 PM.

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#27 Nostradamus

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 08:46 PM

@Dark You know what lets agree to disagree because this is literally going nowhere.


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Which I've told you - time and time again - is dangerous! There will never be consensus, son, among those you have helped to ascend. They will all differ in their views of what it means to be free. The peace you so desperately seek does not exist.
 
These men are united now by a common cause. But when this battle is finished they will fall to fighting amongst themselves about how best to ensure control. In time it will lead to war. You will see.


#28 Phantom_999

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 01:23 AM

I just think that Kishi makes Naruto and Sakura TOO obsessed with Sasuke.


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#29 Gojira

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 01:55 AM

Naruto's connection with Sasuke reminds me of Max Dillon's personality in TASM2

 

"You helped me out that one time......WE'RE OFFICIALLY BEST FRIENDS!!!"


Edited by Pepsi, 25 May 2014 - 01:55 AM.

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