100 replies to this topic

[Nate River]

The answer is no. Kishmoto has debuted his final villain and it's a female. And he's promptly fodderizing her because it's all he knows how to do to female characters. Hopefully time will prove me wrong but it hasn't for 600+ chapters and I doubt it will. 

Hopefully what I'm saying makes more sense to a lot of you now.

I disagree. I think it would have worked on Madara because its the type of comedy that has worked for him (whatever the merits) and there is not one single time that jutsu has failed to produce its intended reaction.

I'm not sure it's much better, but I think the stronger argument is to ask if Kishimoto would have dared pull it out in the battle at all.

Of course, Naruto won a battle by farting in Kiba's face, so I wouldn't put it past him.
 

StrikerTheNoble, here's the problem with your idea of the differences between men and women.
 
Men are not entirely built to be 'stronger' as a whole. Women's lower body strength is superior. We also have a higher pain threshold. We're better at long distance endurance. Our brains are also more analytical (one of the reasons why we tend to be better at distinguishing social cues), and we work better in teams. However, even these differences are slight, because in reality whenever these statistics come up... the differences between men are greater than the differences between men and women. It's poor statistical reasoning when people bring up these so called inherent differences and then make broad ideas about how the world should be like.
 
Speaking of our hunter AND gatherer ancestry, men and women were in a highly eligatarian society, and a good amount of tribes were actually a matriarchy, where the woman is the head of the household. Men did go hunt, but women comprised a large portion of the diet from what they gathered. It's actually, interestingly enough, why men are more likely to be colour blind. The evolutionary theory is that if a woman was colour blind and would accidentally pick a poisonous variant of something, then she'd have eliminated her whole family once she cooked. If a man was colour blind, it'd have less consequences on carrying on his genes. 
 
Also, our hunter and gatherers were a lot happier than we are now; they had far more leisure time, and less war. They had more sex on average, they dedicated their time to music and arts, they passed down stories, and developed their culture. There was a division of labour, but the range of their work was far more limited. Hunt, gather, raise children (both parents did), have fun. It sounds like an awesome lifestyle. It was! However, the climate didn't allow for this nomadic lifestyle to continue. For some reason, we had to settle, which led to a decrease in lifespan and leisure hours, and some would argue 'sowed the seeds' for future warfare, slavery, and even sexism. 
 
However, agriculture was only possible (and probably saved humanity's butt) because of one woman whom we know as the Mother of Agriculture. She must have realized that where they would discard the seeds would be where the new plants grow, and from that she would have experimented and voila, taught it to the rest. Does this mean that men are inept at growing things because it was a woman who did it back then? Definitely not. However, growing crops and farming is tough work. Men and women did it, but now the division of labour became more stark, and because women had been designated to take care of children and thus the home, it sprung a lot of issues between the sexes that for a large part of our evolutionary history was not there. 
 
The topic is a lot more complex than can be argued here, and it's one theory. However, the point I want to stress and close with is that these differences are exaggerated. We're all more likely to be average at what we do; when people talk about 'men are better' they're looking at the exceptional ends of the curve. Most of us are not in there. The idea that if you had two of the world's best mathematicians, and one was male and one was female, that the male would probably be better given the advantage he has in his neurological make up, that that should speak to the rest of us is just nonsense. The majority of people, when taken as a group, perform on average. Men and women are on average, average at math. We are not that much less unlikely that we'll score around that, and it's not that unlikely that we'll be outperforming some men at math. People are very complex, thus that we far more differences between men, than we do between men and women as a whole. 
 
That's why the idea of wanting 'men at your back' because you think they'll be better at something, doesn't really help you in that matter. You're not likely to have the world's finest working with you, and people will have their strengths and weaknesses on any given project. We're not uniform robots. You hire people whom you think would be qualified for the job. The problem is these kind of ideas bar perfectly qualified men and women from attaining the careers they're suited for.

I tend to agree, though my rational is completely different. If I'm staffing for labor, I want the best talent I can obtain (all other things (like criminal history, I don't want the person doing my books to have half a dozen theft/fraud convictions no matter their talent) being equal). By doing what Striker suggests, I cut entire groups of people before I meet them and if my best talent is there then I've already lost it.

I don't think people should simply presume that based on their gender they can't or shouldn't do it.

Generally speaking, the one thing I want to know is can the person seeking to do the labor, do it. It's a mistake to look at that in terms absolutes.

[KonaKonaFan]

Puella Madoka is basically an entire female cast....and an utterly depressing story but no relevant males whatsoever (except Kyubey but that...thing doesn't really have a "gender").  FMA has female characters that are badasses themselves (actually most of the named characters are badasses), Magical Girl Nanoha is pretty much what happens when you blend Gundam and the Magical Girl genre together, with an implicitly (possibly?) lesbian main couple.  Not to say about Black Lagoon, where EVERYONE, male and female, are badasses.  There's plenty of anime out there where males aren't always the main useful characters.

 

Of course, as I am a male, and by default a "pig," I probably wouldn't know a well-written female if it smashed me in the face.

 

I was very much just joking when I said that Sailor Moon was the only one (it's very very known for its female empowerment, and is by far the most mainstream). The only one I've seen of those mentioned was FMA (and only a part of it), and, yes, it has a few well written female characters. I would not call it a show aimed to empower women, however, which I think you are mixing up with well written women. The thing is, with anime, no matter how well written a female character is, most of the time, they are attractive women who are put in unwanted sexual situations (written off as fanservice and humor) that cater to a straight male audience, and Sailor Moon isn't exempt from this either! It doesn't matter if they can shoot a grasshopper from a mile away or take down an entire army barehanded- if the "male gaze" is heavily prevalent, it is NOT an empowering character.

Edited by KonaKonaFan, 26 June 2014 - 03:16 PM.

[Broken Figurine]

Puella Madoka is basically an entire female cast....and an utterly depressing story but no relevant males whatsoever (except Kyubey but that...thing doesn't really have a "gender").  FMA has female characters that are badasses themselves (actually most of the named characters are badasses), Magical Girl Nanoha is pretty much what happens when you blend Gundam and the Magical Girl genre together, with an implicitly (possibly?) lesbian main couple.  Not to say about Black Lagoon, where EVERYONE, male and female, are badasses.  There's plenty of anime out there where males aren't always the main useful characters.

 

Of course, as I am a male, and by default a "pig," I probably wouldn't know a well-written female if it smashed me in the face.

Why even comment like this? It's totally uncalled for. You know this kind of behaviour is wrong, don't stoop down to that level. I surround myself with wonderful people, male and female alike, trans and cis, of different orientations. We have our opinions and our differences of them, but you don't have to drag that kind of nonsense into a debate about sexism to belittle the topic. I love the men in my life. Some of them have written a female far better than I have, because they understand what drives a good character. Some have minds more open then mine. That statement just attempts to belittle those who try and raise valid points about the gender issues in our society. If people argue men are by default 'pigs' than they are no more informed than the man who considers a woman to be by default a whiny b*tch. 

Edited by Broken Figurine, 26 June 2014 - 03:14 PM.

[Nate River]

I can't help but feel this thread spawned off my manga quitting one. I've also ignored the cheap shots at me up until now but after the "absurdly stupid" comment (mods pls wru with this crap) I feel the need to say something. Especially since I don't go around calling other people ABSURDLY STUPID for their opinion I think I'm due my 2 cents. Here he go.

It came up within maybe a couple of hours of your post and you content gets mentioned. Your feeling is dead on. This wasn't coincidental.

Masashi Kishimoto is an extremely EXTREMELY successful artist. He's managed to create of the most successful, longest spanning mangas of all time. Yet for all his success he still cannot seem to create a decent female character. None of them are good and anytime they contribute anything of value it's promply overshadowed by a male's achievment that the female cannot hope to live up to. Typically, the achievement made by the male is the result of what we've affectionately come to call "asspulls" (Sasuke I'm looking at you) or he was "given" the power at virtually no cost. Usually by some greater MALE power.

Since everyone seems to think I'm just butthurt, let's go ahead and have some mini postmortems of the females in this manga. shall we? We'll start with the most loved/hated.

I differ in the reasoning, but, you aren't the only who thinks he's churning out junk. I can't blame you bailing. And yeah, that's pretty much dead on for his poor treatment of Sakura.

[Mistraal]

Well here`s my 2 cents (probably gonna regret this at a later time)

 

Let me just start off by saying that I personaly support devision of labour based on abilities.

It is an undesputed fact that males are physicly superior. It is the way we were built that makes us stronger and faster. And also more aggresssive. Women on the other hand have the so called maternal instinc. (Be advised at this point i am speaking in general, there are many exeptions to this)They mentaly mature faster are in general less agressive.

 

So in mind a woman is intrinsicly inferior in jobs such as construction work,other heavy duty manual labour and of course millitary. This may be sexist but if I were a squad leader I would rather have a squad of men backing me up. For the simple reason that men (due to our build) are better in hand to hand combat. As long as its a long range schirmish women have the same oppurtunity but if things get down to melee the difference is decisive.

 

The point I was making is that not everything is for everyone. Equality is not only acheived by everyone being able to do everything. That is also equality but is also a clusterkitten. The other way is also achieved by deviding society labour but not make it equaliy respected and not obligatory. Lets take the stay at home mom (or dad but I will get to that later). If the family has sufficient funds than I personaly see nothing wrong with a parent, traditionaly the mother, staying at home to take care of her/his child. How many cases of people gone wrong was caused by both the parents being work-o-holics and following "carrers" simply because society told them that they are failures in life if they do otherwise.

 

I would also like to point out some traditional/stereotipic differences between the genders. Lets start with same-gender intractions. Lets say for example to male friends get into a fight (ussually over something serious). They will beat the kitten out of eachother be done with it and go for a drink. Now if look at two girlfriends (i was told of this by women). They will get into a fight, verbally assasssinate eachother,potentialy start a cat fight and then proceed to humiliate eachother until the other is absolutely destroyed.

 

Why this might be is pretty simply explained. Most animal species have the gender which is physicly supposed to attract the other one. For ducks its colorful males trying to attack plain females. or peacocks, which have basicly the same setup. Some animals use singing to attract a partner. For humans is a coctail of all of the above. And think that the gender which attracts the other is most likely female.

 

If we go back to the stone age (or native americans) the setup was simple. The men did the hunting and war-fighting and making decisions, while the women provided clothing, took care if the children and many other domestic affairs. And they were in their own right important to the community. This setup might seem as a full patriarhat but it was efficient and people were mostly happy.

 

I know this might seem like a big "go back to the kitchen" thing but its not. If women feel as if they want careers they should be free to do so. Everyone should have the option to do what they want as long as the are not a liability. Gender equality would be at a higher level it werent for feminists (of all people) telling women to be dissapointed with their lives even when theres nothing really wrong.

 

PS: A woman will win a rape trial 90% of the time. Sometimes even if the guy is innocent. Also how many male gold diggers have you heard off? Most men dont have the option to marry money.

How old are you? I'm gonna guess teens because you have some really weird ideas about women.


"Everyone should have the option to do what they want as long as the are not a liability"

But you said that if women work then the child "will go wrong" and turn out bad.

"Gender equality would be at a higher level it werent for feminists (of all people) telling women to be dissapointed with their lives even when theres nothing really wrong."

This comment is just so blatantly uneducated I can't even get upset at you for it. Gender equality EXISTS because of feminists. If it wern't for feminists women wouldn't have the right to vote. If it wern't for feminists there would be an HR office or any kind of rules against sexual harassment. Women STILL don't get paid as much as men for performing the same job.

"PS: A woman will win a rape trial 90% of the time. Sometimes even if the guy is innocent. Also how many male gold diggers have you heard off? Most men dont have the option to marry money."

Frankly, you ought to apologize for this one but I'm going to go ahead and assume a pretty hefty amount of ignorance instead because that is literally the only reason for making a crack like this. That or you're 14.

https://www.rainn.or...reporting-rates

The majority of rapes doesn't even go reported let alone get prosecuted. Your daughter/sister/mother has a 1 in 5 chance of being raped and odds are you'll never know. This doesn't even begin to cover sexual assault the statistics for that are MUCH higher.

 

[sushi.]

this pic was made for this thread

source

[coolcatjas]

 

BOOM. 

 

This is not only a problem with Naruto, but with anime overall. The males are the useful ones, the females are the supporters. I mean, as far as female-empowering manga/anime, we have Sailor Moon, and.... and.... and.... we have Sailor Moon....

Girls of the Wilds is a Korean manga with a ton empowering women. In fact almost every female character there can kick any male characters' butt. It a pretty good one. There is also technically Kill la Kill.... but uhhhh.... it empowers a few females... but the fan service.... yeeeeahhhh, its pretty perverted >~>

[sushi.]

Girls of the Wilds is a Korean manga with a ton empowering women. In fact almost every female character there can kick any male characters' butt. It a pretty good one. There is also technically Kill la Kill.... but uhhhh.... it empowers a few females... but the fan service.... yeeeeahhhh, its pretty perverted >~>

When it comes to fictional women, I prefer this quote;

"Screw writing “strong” women.  Write interesting women.  Write well-rounded women.  Write complicated women.  Write a woman who kicks ass, write a woman who cowers in a corner.  Write a woman who’s desperate for a husband.  Write a woman who doesn’t need a man.  Write women who cry, women who rant, women who are shy, women who don’t take no kitten, women who need validation and women who don’t care what anybody thinks.  THEY ARE ALL OKAY, and all those things could exist in THE SAME WOMAN.  Women shouldn’t be valued because we are strong, or kick-ass, but because we are people.  So don’t focus on writing characters who are strong.  Write characters who are people."

from this post by madlori

 

I've heard that the show Orange Is the New Black is feministic show which empowers women. I haven't watched it, but I plan to.

Edited by sushi., 26 June 2014 - 05:11 PM.

[Lucky Star]

When it comes to fictional women, I prefer this quote;

"Screw writing “strong” women.  Write interesting women.  Write well-rounded women.  Write complicated women.  Write a woman who kicks ass, write a woman who cowers in a corner.  Write a woman who’s desperate for a husband.  Write a woman who doesn’t need a man.  Write women who cry, women who rant, women who are shy, women who don’t take no kitten, women who need validation and women who don’t care what anybody thinks.  THEY ARE ALL OKAY, and all those things could exist in THE SAME WOMAN.  Women shouldn’t be valued because we are strong, or kick-ass, but because we are people.  So don’t focus on writing characters who are strong.  Write characters who are people."

from this post by madlori

 

I've heard that the show Orange Is the New Black is feministic show which empowers women. I haven't watched it, but I plan to.

That's one of my favorite quotes!

Orange is the New Black is amazing not only for the interesting well written female characters and relationships (and the plot too) but the diversity of all women such as women of color, queer women and trans women. And it's also really funny.

 

And "not all men" bingo seems to be very accurate for this thread unfortunately smh

[Syn11]

I've heard that the show Orange Is the New Black is feministic show which empowers women. I haven't watched it, but I plan to.

 

I've watched it recently - gulped two seasons down because the drama turned out to be quite intense. The series are heavily focused on social problems of women and their lives outside and inside the US penitentiary system. Male audience may find every male character mostly unappealing and unheroic. But that's how real men are... at least in women's eyes. Most of the time they are full of kitten and weaknesses just like females... and humans in general, but they have their good sides too.   

Edited by Syn11, 26 June 2014 - 06:06 PM.

[KonaKonaFan]

this pic was made for this thread

source

 

 

And yeah, watch Orange Is the New Black!

[StrikerTheNoble]

How old are you? I'm gonna guess teens because you have some really weird ideas about women.


"Everyone should have the option to do what they want as long as the are not a liability"

But you said that if women work then the child "will go wrong" and turn out bad.

"Gender equality would be at a higher level it werent for feminists (of all people) telling women to be dissapointed with their lives even when theres nothing really wrong."

This comment is just so blatantly uneducated I can't even get upset at you for it. Gender equality EXISTS because of feminists. If it wern't for feminists women wouldn't have the right to vote. If it wern't for feminists there would be an HR office or any kind of rules against sexual harassment. Women STILL don't get paid as much as men for performing the same job.

"PS: A woman will win a rape trial 90% of the time. Sometimes even if the guy is innocent. Also how many male gold diggers have you heard off? Most men dont have the option to marry money."

Frankly, you ought to apologize for this one but I'm going to go ahead and assume a pretty hefty amount of ignorance instead because that is literally the only reason for making a crack like this. That or you're 14.

https://www.rainn.or...reporting-rates

The majority of rapes doesn't even go reported let alone get prosecuted. Your daughter/sister/mother has a 1 in 5 chance of being raped and odds are you'll never know. This doesn't even begin to cover sexual assault the statistics for that are MUCH higher.

 

 

Listen buddy. For future refference, when debating with someone try to avoid "guessing" anything about your opponents character because you will be wrong, and its ussualy forfeit of an argument. Its simililar to the old: "You loose when you start correction your opponents grammar" rule.

 

For starters wise guy im 17. And you missunderstood half my arguments.

 

What I said was if people are qualified and fit to do something they should do it. BUT if you are a 5 foot blond with 6 inch heels and 2 inch manicured fingernails and cant open her pickle jar than she is probably not qualified for physical labour and should fine a line of work more suited for her. This was a pretty extreme example but you can all imagine the type right?

And what I said regarding children was that if the family has enough one income then one parent should stay at home. It is better for the child to have a present parent than to be constantly swithching babysitters or kindergartens.

 

Also you dont know anything about my education so dont even go there. But I will endulge you. Gender equality is what was achieved by the original feminist movement and is being halted by the modern one. Nobody is going to say that women should vote or have jobs. And the feminism movement allowed them the option.

What modern day feminsim is doing is demanding for women to do it. Women are frequently being told by other women that they have failed in life they dont have an office job and be yelled at by some boss figure. They have convinced themselves that being a stay at home mom is a disgrace

 

@Broken Figurine

 

I agree with most of what you said. As a matter of fact I was gonna include matriarchy in my original argument but it kinda got lost in it:D

But to be fair if we were to put a man and woman in a gladiator colloseum and have them duel to the death via melee who do you think would still be alive to walk away. I mean even the old gentelman code that says dont hit women probably has its origin in some ancient incident.

 

Back to the millitary thing. Have you ever seen stargate SG1? That show has some good female characters. Well one of the mains is Samantha Carter. And that is a women you would want to have covering your back. So dont think I would judge it completely by gender.

[KonaKonaFan]

 

Listen buddy. For future refference, when debating with someone try to avoid "guessing" anything about your opponents character because you will be wrong, and its ussualy forfeit of an argument. Its simililar to the old: "You loose when you start correction your opponents grammar" rule.

 

For starters wise guy im 17. And you missunderstood half my arguments.

 

What I said was if people are qualified and fit to do something they should do it. BUT if you are a 5 foot blond with 6 inch heels and 2 inch manicured fingernails and cant open her pickle jar than she is probably not qualified for physical labour and should fine a line of work more suited for her. This was a pretty extreme example but you can all imagine the type right?

And what I said regarding children was that if the family has enough one income then one parent should stay at home. It is better for the child to have a present parent than to be constantly swithching babysitters or kindergartens.

 

Also you dont know anything about my education so dont even go there. But I will endulge you. Gender equality is what was achieved by the original feminist movement and is being halted by the modern one. Nobody is going to say that women should vote or have jobs. And the feminism movement allowed them the option.

What modern day feminsim is doing is demanding for women to do it. Women are frequently being told by other women that they have failed in life they dont have an office job and be yelled at by some boss figure. They have convinced themselves that being a stay at home mom is a disgrace

 

@Broken Figurine

 

I agree with most of what you said. As a matter of fact I was gonna include matriarchy in my original argument but it kinda got lost in it:D

But to be fair if we were to put a man and woman in a gladiator colloseum and have them duel to the death via melee who do you think would still be alive to walk away. I mean even the old gentelman code that says dont hit women probably has its origin in some ancient incident.

 

Back to the millitary thing. Have you ever seen stargate SG1? That show has some good female characters. Well one of the mains is Samantha Carter. And that is a women you would want to have covering your back. So dont think I would judge it completely by gender.

 

Please, male, please tell me what has been and is being achieved by feminism. I am sure you are an expert on the subject, since it involves you oh-so much.

 

But for real? The fact that women can vote and get jobs is ONE victory. One. And it's not the only thing feminists have always fought for. But, of course, I wouldn't know anything about that, being a female and a feminist and all. 

 

Jeez, I was going to be nice in this thread, but in the face of such blatant sexism.... I can't.

Edited by KonaKonaFan, 26 June 2014 - 07:14 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well when you have female as the protagonist, you're going to get the main focus, but that's given. It's not that writers can't write female characters. It's that perhaps we are only seeing few or maybe we didn't look deep enough. It is true that male is the dominated one in terms of market. I remember how The Last of Us cover have some complaints that Ellie shouldn't be in front of all, but they defend that it is marketable. It's sad that some of us wants all male domination. At times, it feels like we don't want female to dominate us guys, so we bash them easily like she's annoying, she's a kitten, and so on. It's sad but from what I see in the world of Internet, it's true.

I am happy that in gaming universe, we call kitten on Ubisoft for not making female playable characters when they clearly did so or pretty much make themselves look like sexist without saying out loud.

I believe the one I have problem with the female protagonist is that romance must be like first and foremost and the worst of all, have active love triangle with two guys going at it. It feels like we must comprehend it. Plus it does make male characters look complete kitten. So it's like take two to tangle, so in this case take two to go downhill.

Now I'm not going to pretend I know shoujo, because I don't but so far, all has to do with love. I have no problem with that, I think, but is it really what they only think. Granted, Shounen would be like "Action! Mindless! Blood!!!" but it have different variety like not have to fight and play mind game. But again, I don't know better so I won't go far.

Now, we do get more people working on female centric stuff like movies, tv, etc. so at least we are advancing.

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 26 June 2014 - 07:13 PM.

[StrikerTheNoble]

 

Please, male, please tell me what has been and is being achieved by feminism. I am sure you are an expert on the subject, since it involves you oh-so much.

 

But for real? The fact that women can vote and get jobs is ONE victory. One. And it's not the only thing feminists have always fought for. But, of course, I wouldn't know anything about that, being a female and a feminist and all. 

 

Jeez, I was going to be nice in this thread, but in the face of such blatant sexism.... I can't.

Now you are being mean. Blatant sexism would be me saying go back to the kitchen and have a baby. Did I say that? No.

 

Also one question.

 

According to your profile you are an 18 year old american female. Please explain to me just how you personaly suffer from male oppersion day to day. Just face it. Me being a male is completely irrelevant since you at this point are just as oppressed as I am.

[Kamina-Yoshi]

How am I not surprised that a page titled "Let's talk about sexism" created only yesterday got 4 pages of comments? Ah, Internet, I love you sometimes.

[TouKen4Life3g]

How am I not surprised that a page titled "Let's talk about sexism" created only yesterday got 4 pages of comments? Ah, Internet, I love you sometimes.

Yeah, that's Internet for you. I'll leave here for now until I see something is wrong. Take it as a joke so please don't bash me, but I saw this on tumblr and it's...shockingly true. Anyway, one thing I have to note about Avatar is this:

The fate of the world, the story of a grand adventure, the start of a new era...began by a sexist comment from Sokka.

[KonaKonaFan]

Now you are being mean. Blatant sexism would be me saying go back to the kitchen and have a baby. Did I say that? No.

 

Also one question.

 

According to your profile you are an 18 year old american female. Please explain to me just how you personaly suffer from male oppersion day to day. Just face it. Me being a male is completely irrelevant since you at this point are just as oppressed as I am.

 

That's not the only way one can be blatantly sexist?

 

People tell me constantly that I need to scrutinize the way I look in order to please men. One thing I heard constantly growing up was that I shouldn't wear certain clothes or do certain things because, "boys don't like that!" That's the mentality I was preconditioned to believe. That I exist for male pleasure, even when I was only nine years old. Society tells me everyday that I need to remove my body hair, pluck my eyebrows, stay skinny, cover up my boobs and ass, no wait, don't cover up your boobs and ass, you don't have control over your own body, WE do. 

 

I was raised to believe that women should always be submissive to their husbands, whether they want to or not. I was raised to believe that my opinions aren't as important as the ones coming from men. To this day men always interrupt and dismiss my opinions, and I know it's not just me, because I see it happening to other females too. I was raised to believe a woman can't be president, or a pastor, or the head of a house. I was raised to believe that I need to eventually get married and have children with a good Christian man. I was raised to believe I was less than men.

 

I hear everyday that, ew, gays are gross, but lesbian porn is hot! I hear everyday how that one girl is such a slut for sleeping with a few guys, and how that guy is such a stud for doing the same. I hear everyday that girls have the responsibility to dress so that men don't look at her and let his mind wander. I hear everyday that this one woman who voiced her opinion is a stupid whore who deserves to be raped. 

 

People tell me I should be glad that guy looked at me creepy, after all, I should be grateful for the attention. They tell me that those boys harassing me for my looks are just messing around, don't worry about them. People tell me that I am sexist against men for the crime of being a feminist. People tell me, be nicer, hate doesn't end hate, but throw nary a single word at the oppressors.

 

The message I get, simply, is that I, a 18-year-old American female, am less than men.

 

Don't you think for a second that you are just as oppressed as me. This was just a window into the life of a female. You will NEVER understand what sex-based oppression is like. Never.

Edited by KonaKonaFan, 26 June 2014 - 07:55 PM.

[StrikerTheNoble]

Yeah, that's Internet for you. I'll leave here for now until I see something is wrong. Take it as a joke so please don't bash me, but I saw this on tumblr and it's...shockingly true. Anyway, one thing I have to note about Avatar is this:

The fate of the world, the story of a grand adventure, the start of a new era...began by a sexist comment from Sokka.

That is the most accurate thing ever

 

@KonaKonaFan

 

I`m not gonna say that its alright. But most of what you said can be attributed to the way you were brought up. I assume you come from a christian family judging from what you wrote (correct me if I am wrong), and I have a friend that come from a hardcore christian home. I once almost dated his sister (ultimately decided against it). 

 

Look most what you wrote can be solved simply. Prove them wrong. You are being TOLD you are basicly worthless, which doesnt mean its true. The best you can do is ignore them, and prove them wrong.

 

When it comes to the clothing stuff... I can see your reasoning. But the street goes both ways on this one. Just as girl cant go around showing her ass or boobs a guy will get arrested in mere second if he even thinks about showing his dingdong in public. Dress codes have been around for ages and they suck for everyone. Take the 19th century fashion. Girls had to wear foot long dressses and hats etc. Well guys had to wear black suits with cilinders while growing big ass beards. By the time summer came around nobody was thinking in terms of feminism. Everybody was melting from the heat. 

 

As far as rape goes... yea most rapists are guys. Testosteron is way more unstable than estrogen. If a guy gets needy it can get messed up if you couple that with a lack of conciusness. In all probability rape by women could exist as well. If a girl had the means to subdue the guy and the motivation to do it.

 

About the lesbian porn thing... its simple. No straight guy on the planet is gonna get a kick out of two guys getting it on. Same as straight girls dont like yuri but might enjoy yaoi. Its al subjective

 

Im just gonna finnish with this. Women are told to take certain precaution against rape. But you mustnt forget something. Rapists are criminals with no sense of moral. So its not the male gender that you are taking precaution against its the psychos. Men have to do it too. You dont just go outside at 2 am all willy dilly carying 200 dollars cash and a hawaii T-shirt. you will get mugged or murder. You dont blame the gender of the criminal you blame the criminal. We all protect ourselves from those people. If by nothing else simply by locking the door. I could say I feel opressed by [insert group here] for having to so but ultimately I know one thing. If I dont take precaution against something than the unfortunate incident might just happen. As a firefighter im gonna tell you this: Prevention beats having to go on an emergency call any day. Here`s also a point on firefighting. This may not be the general situation but... we have plenty female firefighters. At least 10. There is a special rank called female members leader. Out off all those women 2-3 are actually active and usefull. The rest just kinda exist there showing off their annoying ass babies at any given chance. Its not a rule but it is the case at our firehouse.

[Broken Figurine]

 

Listen buddy. For future refference, when debating with someone try to avoid "guessing" anything about your opponents character because you will be wrong, and its ussualy forfeit of an argument. Its simililar to the old: "You loose when you start correction your opponents grammar" rule.

 

For starters wise guy im 17. And you missunderstood half my arguments.

 

What I said was if people are qualified and fit to do something they should do it. BUT if you are a 5 foot blond with 6 inch heels and 2 inch manicured fingernails and cant open her pickle jar than she is probably not qualified for physical labour and should fine a line of work more suited for her. This was a pretty extreme example but you can all imagine the type right?

And what I said regarding children was that if the family has enough one income then one parent should stay at home. It is better for the child to have a present parent than to be constantly swithching babysitters or kindergartens.

 

Also you dont know anything about my education so dont even go there. But I will endulge you. Gender equality is what was achieved by the original feminist movement and is being halted by the modern one. Nobody is going to say that women should vote or have jobs. And the feminism movement allowed them the option.

What modern day feminsim is doing is demanding for women to do it. Women are frequently being told by other women that they have failed in life they dont have an office job and be yelled at by some boss figure. They have convinced themselves that being a stay at home mom is a disgrace

 

@Broken Figurine

 

I agree with most of what you said. As a matter of fact I was gonna include matriarchy in my original argument but it kinda got lost in it:D

But to be fair if we were to put a man and woman in a gladiator colloseum and have them duel to the death via melee who do you think would still be alive to walk away. I mean even the old gentelman code that says dont hit women probably has its origin in some ancient incident.

 

Back to the millitary thing. Have you ever seen stargate SG1? That show has some good female characters. Well one of the mains is Samantha Carter. And that is a women you would want to have covering your back. So dont think I would judge it completely by gender.

 

I don't understand what putting a man and a woman in a gladiator colloseum has anything to do with the day to day issues in our society. It goes back to the whole, if we're looking at the extreme ends of a curve and creating a scenario for that this would be the outcome. Most of us are screwed against gladiators, male or female. If we're taking the best gladiators in the world and putting them in a specific situation where everything is controlled for--weapons, skill, etc, then what? The fact that a man walks out alive means no woman should be a gladiator? There are sex based differences. However, they're exaggerated because again--more likely to have differences between men. You put two people in a gladiator pit and have a duel to the death, if both of them are men one of them is still going to die. It's just more probable that in a match between a man and a woman, the man will win(?) 

 

Men are also frequently telling women that they're not good mothers if they're career women. Men are actually a lot worse with gender policing than women are--it's the fathers moreso than the mothers enforcing gender roles, especially on their sons. Threats against masculinity are coded in common phrases "don't be a pussy" "that's so gay" "you throw like a girl" "no kitten". The pervasive sexism in society, and the belittlement of femininity in favour of masculinity, effects both genders. You can make it a he said she said thing, but really it's a more universal issue. When we say males are priveleged, it's because they're the designated ideal. Doesn't mean men benefit. On the contrary, it doesn't allow for a healthier mode of thought to flourish--the adrogyne. The best of both worlds.