55 replies to this topic

[RyrineaHaruno]

Because she said she belived that a marriage should between a man and a woman

Girl loses Crown because she spoke her opinion.


I think that is bull crud really she spoke her mind but loses because of it.


Even thought I don't agree with her but I still think it bull.

Please comment I would like to here your thoughts about this.

Edited by RyrineaHaruno, 23 April 2009 - 04:49 AM.

[catsi563]

yeah i think she did. In a way I understand hiltons comments about Miss America being a non-devisive person a person for all americans.

Still even if i dont agree with her she is entitled to her opinion

But what angers me is the softball question that was tossed to Ms Carolina after they asked Ms California hers.

it was pretty blatant they didnt like her answer and punished her. Hilton had no right to push his personal agenda on the contestants

[RyrineaHaruno]

yeah i think she did. In a way I understand hiltons comments about Miss America being a non-devisive person a person for all americans.

Still even if i dont agree with her she is entitled to her opinion

But what angers me is the softball question that was tossed to Ms Carolina after they asked Ms California hers.

it was pretty blatant they didnt like her answer and punished her. Hilton had no right to push his personal agenda on the contestants

Yeah Perez Hilton had no right to do what he did really.

[Tahaji]

No, I beleive he had every right. If someone stood up, and said something negative about your entire lifestyle, then you would be upset, outraged even. He had the right, but so did she.

The woman stood up for her beleifs, and I applaud her for that, but dont get mad at hilton because he was offended, get mad at him because he let his anger effect his judgement.

[Pite]

In my opinion a person has a right to speak their mind thoser people who marked her down when she didn't oblidge to the 'popular' liberal sentiment are more worthy being boo-ed than her.

In my eyes she gained a lot of respect towards her, she stood up to whar she believed in. \

People who booed her really should think about tolerance as a two way street, you want tolerance for your views, tolaerate others and treat them as you would want your opinions to be treated.

[Cloud]

In my opinion a person has a right to speak their mind thoser people who marked her down when she didn't oblidge to the 'popular' liberal sentiment are more worthy being boo-ed than her.

In my eyes she gained a lot of respect towards her, she stood up to whar she believed in. \

People who booed her really should think about tolerance as a two way street, you want tolerance for your views, tolaerate others and treat them as you would want your opinions to be treated.

Well said.

She really didn't say anything wrong, it was her opinion. She IS right. People choose who they want to marry or be with. If they're happy and don't bother you, why should you punish her for it?

She said: "It's the way I was raised."

Its not like she said: "OMG, SAME SEX MARRIAGE *Squee* GROSS."

She never forced her opinion on anyone, so I don't think they had the right to take away her crown.

Sad fact of life... judges are sometimes biased.

Quick note: Please don't fire off live rounds in here. It's an opinion thread... there is a debate thread about stuff like this somewhere I think. Keep it friendly. <-- Just a reminder, not saying anybody is in the wrong here.

Edited by Cloud, 23 April 2009 - 05:04 AM.

[Valor Grim]

I agree with you there. Some land of the free. We speak our minds and we get punished for it. Sounds like a winner to me. (Sarcasm to the extreme)

Just because she decided to say something different than the whole "I want world peace!" crap, she said what she believed. And I respect her for that.

[RyrineaHaruno]

In my opinion a person has a right to speak their mind thoser people who marked her down when she didn't oblidge to the 'popular' liberal sentiment are more worthy being boo-ed than her.

In my eyes she gained a lot of respect towards her, she stood up to whar she believed in. \

People who booed her really should think about tolerance as a two way street, you want tolerance for your views, tolaerate others and treat them as you would want your opinions to be treated.

Well said


She never should have been booed

[Illmatic]

first of all, a question like this had no place in something like this, this isnt some political debate

second, I commend her for sticking to her values and not copping out to what the popular answer is, she didnt disrespect anyone and was punished for not sharing his views

Perez seems like he has a chip on his shoulder

and yes, you can disagree with someones lifestyle without discriminating them

[RyrineaHaruno]

first of all, a question like this had no place in something like this, this isnt some political debate

second, I commend her for sticking to her values and not copping out to what the popular answer is, she didnt disrespect anyone and was punished for not sharing his views

Perez seems like he has a chip on his shoulder

and yes, you can disagree with someones lifestyle without discriminating them

True it shound't have been asked in the first place.

[Angel]

*shakes head sadly* no place at all being asked in this thing, especially when the Judge assumed there was only One correct answer (I mean really, asking a question like that in a pageant?) I give her points for not saying "Gay marriage is ok, World Peace!" Which is something expected of a generic Miss America robot

[Chivalrysae]

I agree with a lot of you. That questions never should have been asked. It was a loaded question. And anyone that asks a question like that should be prepared to hear either answer. I personally don't agree with her answer, but I commend her for staying true to her beliefs and not giving in to a judge that may be trying to push his own agenda.

Everyone is entitled to their own answer to that exact same question. Does the fact that she does not have the same opinion as him mean she's bashing his orientation? No, it just means she has a different definition of "marriage."

However, from a position of influence, I think answers to questions like that should be answered from a slightly more political perspective in the context of the pageant. Miss America is a role model to all younger children...just like sports stars, presidents...we hold them to a higher moral standard because of the influence they have. Do I think that's fair? No...but it comes with the job. So it is a sticky situation.

So I commend her for answering what she feels is her best answer, however it really isn't a "Miss America-type" answer. Look at American Idol. If a person doesn't have the right combination of talent and marketability, they automatically are at a disadvantage. Same thing with politicians. They are all selling an "Image." And if you don't have the image (total package) that fits, you probably won't win. Doesn't matter how pretty or educated you are.

[Sakura Blossoms]

However, from a position of influence, I think answers to questions like that should be answered from a slightly more political perspective in the context of the pageant. Miss America is a role model to all younger children...just like sports stars, presidents...we hold them to a higher moral standard because of the influence they have. Do I think that's fair? No...but it comes with the job. So it is a sticky situation.

So I commend her for answering what she feels is her best answer, however it really isn't a "Miss America-type" answer. Look at American Idol. If a person doesn't have the right combination of talent and marketability, they automatically are at a disadvantage. Same thing with politicians. They are all selling an "Image." And if you don't have the image (total package) that fits, you probably won't win. Doesn't matter how pretty or educated you are.

Thank you, and quoted for absolute truth :3

[Nate River]

I agree with a lot of you. That questions never should have been asked. It was a loaded question. And anyone that asks a question like that should be prepared to hear either answer. I personally don't agree with her answer, but I commend her for staying true to her beliefs and not giving in to a judge that may be trying to push his own agenda.

Everyone is entitled to their own answer to that exact same question. Does the fact that she does not have the same opinion as him mean she's bashing his orientation? No, it just means she has a different definition of "marriage."

However, from a position of influence, I think answers to questions like that should be answered from a slightly more political perspective in the context of the pageant. Miss America is a role model to all younger children...just like sports stars, presidents...we hold them to a higher moral standard because of the influence they have. Do I think that's fair? No...but it comes with the job. So it is a sticky situation.

So I commend her for answering what she feels is her best answer, however it really isn't a "Miss America-type" answer. Look at American Idol. If a person doesn't have the right combination of talent and marketability, they automatically are at a disadvantage. Same thing with politicians. They are all selling an "Image." And if you don't have the image (total package) that fits, you probably won't win. Doesn't matter how pretty or educated you are.

I don't think it was conicidental that Ms. California got asked that particular question, considering the debate that surronded proposition 8. He could have asked it of anybody and he asks it to the contestant from the State that had one of the most hotly conested debates with that issue.

He says she should have danced around it or side-stepped, but it sounds to me it was asked with an already "correct" answer is mind. I think he was either looking for affirmation for his own agenda or a denunciation of Prop. 8 or something similar. I think Perez's defense is bull.

My question is: what is a "Ms. America-type" answer and what is an answer that is "slightly more political perspective of the pageant?" Also, what is the image that fits this pageant?

[Chivalrysae]

I don't think it was conicidental that Ms. California got asked that particular question, considering the debate that surronded proposition 8. He could have asked it of anybody and he asks it to the contestant from the State that had one of the most hotly conested debates with that issue.

He says she should have danced around it or side-stepped, but it sounds to me it was asked with an already "correct" answer is mind. I think he was either looking for affirmation for his own agenda or a denunciation of Prop. 8 or something similar. I think Perez's defense is bull.

My question is: what is a "Ms. America-type" answer and what is an answer that is "slightly more political perspective of the pageant?" Also, what is the image that fits this pageant?

When I said Miss America-type answer I did not have one already in mind. I don't know the audience that well since I'm not a big pageant watcher. However, if you've been through the pageant business for a while, most are coached on how to best answer questions and approach controversial topics. And since she is from California, and proposition 8, she should be more prepared for answering that question from a political standpoint. She just chose to go her own way, which I think is great.

Just like when you go in for an interview for a job. If you really want the job (just like if you really want to win in the pageant) do you gear your answers to what you think the interviewers want to hear or do you express a personal opinion that may offend them? It's just the way people are in general. You can't make everyone happy, but there's a difference between making people unhappy, and making them angry.

And I could be wrong, but showbiz, the pageant, as well as the panel of judges have always leaned towards being supportive of same sex marriage. When you write a paper, when you prepare a speech...the first thing you have to consider is who your audience is. That is how you convince and win over people. I think that if she at least empathized with those who are seeking these rights and priviledges, it might have gone over better.

[Nate River]

When I said Miss America-type answer I did not have one already in mind. I don't know the audience that well since I'm not a big pageant watcher. However, if you've been through the pageant business for a while, most are coached on how to best answer questions and approach controversial topics. And since she is from California, and proposition 8, she should be more prepared for answering that question from a political standpoint. She just chose to go her own way, which I think is great.

Just like when you go in for an interview for a job. If you really want the job (just like if you really want to win in the pageant) do you gear your answers to what you think the interviewers want to hear or do you express a personal opinion that may offend them? It's just the way people are in general. You can't make everyone happy, but there's a difference between making people unhappy, and making them angry.

Ah, my mistake then. The nature of your resposne game me the impression that you did have one in mind.

In this context then, I think she absolutely did the right thing. She chose to stand for her beliefs as opposed to telling a judge what he wanted to here, but I don't think this a think should be treated as acceptable. If what you say is true, then the winner is going to tend to be those who share the same beliefs as those judging the contest, which is pure garbage. And this is essentially what happened to her. She was punished because she didn't hold the "correct" political beliefs.

And I could be wrong, but showbiz, the pageant, as well as the panel of judges have always leaned towards being supportive of same sex marriage. When you write a paper, when you prepare a speech...the first thing you have to consider is who your audience is. That is how you convince and win over people. I think that if she at least empathized with those who are seeking these rights and priviledges, it might have gone over better.

Leans is a vast understatement.

Your, right a politician looking to convince someone they are right and people should vote and follow them isn't the same as being crowned Miss America. However, being a politician is different that writing a paper to an academic community or writing one in class.

Someone seeking to persuade must consider their audience, but why should her shot at the Miss America crown depend in anyway on the consistency of her beliefs with that of the judges? That it done is bad enough, but that it is tolerated is even worse. Ms. California wasn't attempting to persuade anyone to do anything, but simply gave an honest answer to a loaded question and was punished for it. She wasn't punished because her answer wasn't persausive, but because it wasn't the answer the judge wanted to here.

And you're right, she would have fair better is she did that, but then...why should that even be necessary? Would that ever be asked of someone is the opposition as her? I wouldn't count on it.

[jigglychu]

The whole thing is outrageous, and the question had no place being asked in a beauty pageant.

However, from a position of influence, I think answers to questions like that should be answered from a slightly more political perspective in the context of the pageant. Miss America is a role model to all younger children...just like sports stars, presidents...we hold them to a higher moral standard because of the influence they have. Do I think that's fair? No...but it comes with the job. So it is a sticky situation.

I'm a little bit confused by this. What do you mean by a "political perspective"? Do you mean having a politically correct answer? In your second sentence, are you implying that being pro-gay marriage is definitive as being the moral position?

Just like when you go in for an interview for a job. If you really want the job (just like if you really want to win in the pageant) do you gear your answers to what you think the interviewers want to hear or do you express a personal opinion that may offend them? It's just the way people are in general. You can't make everyone happy, but there's a difference between making people unhappy, and making them angry.

You shouldn't have to sell out to win. I could understand if she supported the wrong side of a morally unambiguous issue, but gay marriage is not something that is universally agreed upon.

[Mik3]

Ive always thought about how people are forced into being role models because of their fame. I can understand Miss America is a sticky situation. Its more obvious there than almost anywhere else because of how much young girls will look up to her. So maybe she could have siaid something like "I was raised a christian, and while we don't believe in gay marriage, I don't have a problem with the gay community" or something to that effect. However, Perez is not asking the question with the young women of the nation in mind, hes asking it of his own accord, someting out of context for a judge to do.

But when I hear about how famous people must live up to the standards of public, I am reminded of something Professional Boxer Bernard Hopkins once said. He as an athlete had to face the adversity, train relentlessly, and earn his way up literally from the bottom. And the successes he accomplished were his to enjoy. And how he chose to live with his success was his business. It's incredibly selfish to hold hold a person to different standards, but that's what happens.

[Chivalrysae]

The whole thing is outrageous, and the question had no place being asked in a beauty pageant.



I'm a little bit confused by this. What do you mean by a "political perspective"? Do you mean having a politically correct answer? In your second sentence, are you implying that being pro-gay marriage is definitive as being the moral position?



You shouldn't have to sell out to win. I could understand if she supported the wrong side of a morally unambiguous issue, but gay marriage is not something that is universally agreed upon.

That's really just they way things are. Almost every contest is a popularity contest. Who can apeal to the most people. That's why I don't like pageants and I don't like a lot of competitions. A lot of them are cookie cutter. But if that's the nature of the business and you kind of know going in, that's what it takes. Which is why I think it's so great that she stood up for herself. Being in the public light, you have to always be careful about what you say because people always over react. If she said that to me in conversation I wouldn't have thought anything of it. But that's the life you lead. With great power, comes great responsibility.

And yes I meant by having a more politically correct answer. One that may be more universally accepted by the majority of the voters or judges. Other than just saying "I think it's it's between a man and a woman, but I also believe that life-partners should always be given the rights, respects, etc that marriage is entitled with." Not sure how to word that because I think marriage should be open to any two people, regardless of gender.

[RyrineaHaruno]

When I said Miss America-type answer I did not have one already in mind. I don't know the audience that well since I'm not a big pageant watcher. However, if you've been through the pageant business for a while, most are coached on how to best answer questions and approach controversial topics. And since she is from California, and proposition 8, she should be more prepared for answering that question from a political standpoint. She just chose to go her own way, which I think is great.

Just like when you go in for an interview for a job. If you really want the job (just like if you really want to win in the pageant) do you gear your answers to what you think the interviewers want to hear or do you express a personal opinion that may offend them? It's just the way people are in general. You can't make everyone happy, but there's a difference between making people unhappy, and making them angry.

And I could be wrong, but showbiz, the pageant, as well as the panel of judges have always leaned towards being supportive of same sex marriage. When you write a paper, when you prepare a speech...the first thing you have to consider is who your audience is. That is how you convince and win over people. I think that if she at least empathized with those who are seeking these rights and priviledges, it might have gone over better.

From what you are saying you think they are rigged right say if I am wrong or right in this I just couldn't understand what your saying.