5 replies to this topic

[Kenhime]

I was thinking about shipping and fanfic pairings as of late, and I thought it would be nice to hear from fellow writers/readers about what they think about shipping.

Here are some questions I ask you, and you don't have to answer them all (though that will be nice if you do).

1) When you write the shipping your story centers on, why do you do it? Is it to attract like-minded people to your story? Is it to gain more attention with a specific pairing rather than to have your story be a gen fic?

2) If you do not state a pairing in your FFnet summary, and you receive reviews supporting pairings you did not specify nor emphasize, how do you feel about it?

3) What are your experiences with readers when you ship or nonship a fanfic?

4) Say you come across a fantastic story that has no stated/confirmed pairing in the beginning. As you read more and enjoy it more, you reach a turning point in the story where a pairing you do not prefer is confirmed. "Three Pieces of an Annoying Complex Puzzle" is one such example. Do you continue to read it?

Click For Spoiler

As I was editing a fanfic of mine, I thought about the people who read this story and why do they read it. I realized that my readers are predominantly NaruSaku and NaruHina fans--and I realized I failed in my attempt to write a story that would appeal to all readers.

I remembered talking to a reader one time (and only once) and what she said. She told me, truthfully, that when she first read about Naruto and Sakura's tongue dance, she was about to stop reading. But then, when she saw that Hinata was described next and she read the following interaction between those two, "a little flame of hope lit up." So she kept on reading. Then, I said, "So you kept on reading for the N***H***?" She amended by saying, "Well, I also liked the story..."

Secondly, I wrote a one-shot involving Team 7 friendship. Using the shipping system as a way to explain that the interactions between the three are strong and important, I said, "You will be seeing S***S***, N***S***, and NaruSaku pairings!" ...I got flamed by a very pissed-off yaoi girl.

"Don't claim to have pairings when you don't. You said N***S*** and I was expecting N***S*** but all I got was S***S***. And I utterly loathe het. Oh, God, I hate het writers like you who try to trick people into read their stories. You blame us yaoi writers about lying and cheating you, but you het writers do it too."

Needless to say, I learned my lesson.

Thirdly, I received a FFnet message from a fangirl who asked me quite bluntly, "Are you a boy or a girl?" When I asked her why she gave me such a question, she replied that, "Most girls write romance, but your story doesn't have any romance in it. So I couldn't tell."

How do you think these circumstances have contributed to my writing fanfics? These are only the more important factors of many I've experienced.

Click For Spoiler

I also want to tell you that in spite of my neutral stance towards shipping sites and forums, I support H&E. Firstly, although many of you hate Sasuke with such passion, many of you see Sasuke with all of his faults. Considering that in the last popularity poll on Shounen Jump, Naruto the hero was not as popular as Sasuke the traitor, I think it shows that at least some of us are not in denial about Sasuke. Secondly, although you support NaruSaku wholeheartedly, you never assumed my story was a NaruSaku, even with the kissing scene. It proved to me how great of a bunch you guys are. Thank you. I love you all at H&E and I write for you.

[Eagle8819]

1) When you write the shipping your story centers on, why do you do it? Is it to attract like-minded people to your story? Is it to gain more attention with a specific pairing rather than to have your story be a gen fic?

That's...a rather interesting (yet hard) question. I never really questioned why I write fics, or a certain shipping, at that. To some extent, I suppose, it is to attract people's attention to the fic. When one wants critiques, it's almost always easier to see things if there's an outside opinion. My writings is mediocore at best, hence a reason why I post it in public, for people's viewing and critical eye.

Mostly, though, it's for fun and to work on my writing. Besides, when ideas and scenes come nagging at you until it becomes distracting, writing down the scene actually brings down the level of distraction. Don't you agree?

2) If you do not state a pairing in your FFnet summary, and you receive reviews supporting pairings you did not specify nor emphasize, how do you feel about it?

I find myself raising an eyebrow most of the time. I was curious and amused all the same - and I will admit it's a little flattering. It goes to show that there are other people besides the shippers of that certain pairing in the fanfic who reads what I have written, and found it enjoyable.

And on a side note, to this date, I still find myself highly amused at the fact one of the fics I have written had somehow gotten into a SasuSaku C2. I remember staring at it for, oh, five minutes?

3) What are your experiences with readers when you ship or nonship a fanfic?

Hmm. Not much, really. Although there was one time I got into a little debate about a character or two, and it was quite an eye-opener.

4) Say you come across a fantastic story that has no stated/confirmed pairing in the beginning. As you read more and enjoy it more, you reach a turning point in the story where a pairing you do not prefer is confirmed. "Three Pieces of an Annoying Complex Puzzle" is one such example. Do you continue to read it?

Absolutely. The fact that it's good is enough of a reason for me to read it. "Good", here, generally constitues a nice, at least decent, writing style, understandable and well-executed plans, good characterization, and the sort. If the writer of that fantastic story could make things believable and realistic, I have no complaints about reading it. Perhaps a little disappointment about the pairing, but I wouldn't drop it just because of the pairing.

With me, the most important thing of the fic isn't always the pairing. Very often, I admit, it's the characterization of the characters that pull me in. Plot comes second, but overall, it's the portrayal of characters I take in highest regard. :thumbs:

In response to the things behind spoiler tags --

Click For Spoiler

As I was editing a fanfic of mine, I thought about the people who read this story and why do they read it.

*raises eyebrows* Are you suggesting what I think you are suggesting? ^_________^

Thirdly, I received a FFnet message from a fangirl who asked me quite bluntly, "Are you a boy or a girl?" When I asked her why she gave me such a question, she replied that, "Most girls write romance, but your story doesn't have any romance in it. So I couldn't tell."

...to be totally honest, I actually thought that 60% of the romance fics in the Naruto fandom was written by the males. XDDD

Okay, randomness aside...

I can't say I know how all these circumstances contributed to your writing fanfics. It could be motivation from reviews, praises, criticism you gained from readers...there's really a lot of ways and reasons to answer that -- your question is rather ambiguous. But I suppose, to say it in general terms, it's the attention of readers?

The fact that a fangirl goes as far as asking your gender just proves that you are a really good writer, and readers are simply just curious about you. The yaoi-fan girl must have been extremely disappointed when she couldn't find her favourite pairings - and that, I imagine, also says a lot for your writing.

This probably isn't really answering your question, but that's pretty much what came to mind upon seeing your question.

I also want to tell you that in spite of my neutral stance towards shipping sites and forums, I support H&E. Firstly, although many of you hate Sasuke with such passion, many of you see Sasuke with all of his faults. Considering that in the last popularity poll on Shounen Jump, Naruto the hero was not as popular as Sasuke the traitor, I think it shows that at least some of us are not in denial about Sasuke. Secondly, although you support NaruSaku wholeheartedly, you never assumed my story was a NaruSaku, even with the kissing scene. It proved to me how great of a bunch you guys are. Thank you. I love you all at H&E and I write for you.

I have likened to call Sasuke a brat (and he is a brat) although I will say that it hasn't gotten to a point where I hate him.

Aww.

...oops.

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[Sakura Blossoms]

1) When you write the shipping your story centers on, why do you do it?  Is it to attract like-minded people to your story?  Is it to gain more attention with a specific pairing rather than to have your story be a gen fic?

When I write the ship that my story focuses on, it's just to let people know which pairing the story focuses on. For e.g. if my story revolves around GaaraxSakura or NarutoxSakura, I write those pairings so that people will know who I am writing about.

2) If you do not state a pairing in your FFnet summary, and you receive reviews supporting pairings you did not specify nor emphasize, how do you feel about it?

I kind of shake my head in amusement, expecially at those reviewers who go "please write about SasuSaku or NaruHina! I really want to see Naruto end up with Hinata11!" And they completely ignore the pairing that I am writing about or supporting :rolleyes:

3) What are your experiences with readers when you ship or nonship a fanfic?

I love my readers...period
Even the ones who scream out for their specific pairing instead of the one that I am writing about, because for the most part people are cool about the reviews that they leave. And if they leave a really mean or nasty review I just go to that little button called 'Delete' and that review and that person's bad attitude are gone permanently from my life

4) Say you come across a fantastic story that has no stated/confirmed pairing in the beginning.  As you read more and enjoy it more, you reach a turning point in the story where a pairing you do not prefer is confirmed. Do you continue to read it?

This has happened to me a couple of times. If the story is well-written I'll probably just finish it because I want to find out what happens in the end

Secondly, I wrote a one-shot involving Team 7 friendship.  Using the shipping system as a way to explain that the interactions between the three are strong and important, I said, "You will be seeing S***S***, N***S***, and NaruSaku pairings!"  ...I got flamed by a very pissed-off yaoi girl.

That was pretty messed up what that reader said to you...it really makes me sad when people react like that to someone else's writing. I don't believe in flaming...if you don't like the story either don't finish it...or as my mother loves to say..."if you don't have anything good to say, then don't say anything at all!"

I also want to tell you that in spite of my neutral stance towards shipping sites and forums, I support H&E.  Firstly, although many of you hate Sasuke with such passion, many of you see Sasuke with all of his faults. 

I actually used to truly despise Sasuke...and I still dislike him as a moral character...but I love the fact that he is such a fantastic villian now! XD

I love you all at H&E and I write for you.

And we all love you too Hime-chan!

[LokiNishizaki]

1) When you write the shipping your story centers on, why do you do it? Is it to attract like-minded people to your story? Is it to gain more attention with a specific pairing rather than to have your story be a gen fic?

Well, there's only one way to say this. I've never written the ship my story is on and I wont until I write a pure romance fic.(Never going to happen!) I realize that I've lost some readers by doing this, possibly a great number of them. But then I ask myself if I wanted them to read my story in the first place. I eventually realized that if the pairing is the only thing that would interest them, then there are other authors that would do the job better than I.

2) If you do not state a pairing in your FFnet summary, and you receive reviews supporting pairings you did not specify nor emphasize, how do you feel about it?

I feel curious, I usually wonder what gave them the impression of that pairing. I get over it quickly though.

3) What are your experiences with readers when you ship or nonship a fanfic?

Some readers ask me what the pairing to the story is but most don't ever mention it.

4) Say you come across a fantastic story that has no stated/confirmed pairing in the beginning. As you read more and enjoy it more, you reach a turning point in the story where a pairing you do not prefer is confirmed. "Three Pieces of an Annoying Complex Puzzle" is one such example. Do you continue to read it?

It depends. Did you read Sanctuary of Seven? That story started out as S***S*** and NaruSaku but it eventually became S***S***. I stopped reading that story because I simply couldn't believe that Sasuke would do what he had done. It became too much and I couldn't enjoy the story anymore. If the characters are still in character, then I finish the story.

Firstly, although many of you hate Sasuke with such passion, many of you see Sasuke with all of his faults.

Well, I can't deny that. I loathe Sasuke... but I happen to pride myself on my ability to put my personal feelings aside for the sake of the story. I've seen authors that are completely incapable of even seeing the character for what he is. They create the most flagrant examples of OOCness.

You got me thinking on why I write. Is it to fight the fangirls over control of fanfiction.net? Is it to show these ignorant children how to write a real fanfic? Is it to broadcast my idea of how the show could be improved to others? Then I realized.

I do it because it's fun.

[Vespar]

1) When you write the shipping your story centers on, why do you do it?  Is it to attract like-minded people to your story?  Is it to gain more attention with a specific pairing rather than to have your story be a gen fic?

When I write a part revolving around a shipping, I do it because I can imagine a scene like it playing out, otherwise, I don't write it.

Though, the answer I should be giving, would be the one when I first started (the second time around ^^; ). I'd wanted people to recognise my work and give me a reason to continue. I'd soon realised I began writing for my readers, rather than for myself. From then on, I stopped trying to improve myself on what others think I should write, and instead, focused on improving my actual style of writing and continuing what I want to write.

Now, when I do write a shipping, I only write it because I planned what my fic will go through. If the romance is the focus, then I write that. If the romance isn't the focus, but there is some in there, then it's there for a reason.

2) If you do not state a pairing in your FFnet summary, and you receive reviews supporting pairings you did not specify nor emphasize, how do you feel about it?

Heh, it feels kind of weird. I never write a blunt pairing into my summaries, BUT my summaries do tend to imply a pairing (if there is one).
As for reviews supporting pairings i did not specify or emphasize, I suppose I draw a blank. I wonder if people are reading the same story I wrote, but... *shrugs* I suppose they'd interprete things differently, if they've always got a certain pairing in mind.
On the other hand, I'd had people demand I should continue a story and write a resolved pairing -and it irks me. I'll never write a story about a pairing for which would never make sense if I can't imagine them together.
On more than one occasion I've started on fics that purposely hangs a pairing infront of the reader, only to yank it away.

3) What are your experiences with readers when you ship or nonship a fanfic?

I tend to get mixed reviews.

In one fic, it was clear cut there would be no pairings, so I got very few people promoting their preferances -though I can understand where they were coming from.

In another fic, I'd been purposely vague in every single way. So, when I brought in Hinata early, I can understand how people came to a NaruHina conclusion and I brought it upon myself. Still though... I'd started putting notes in it, saying that it's not a pairing fic and if you're in it for the pairing and not the story, you'll be sorely disappointed.

I usually get approval though. And I especially like constructive criticism.

4) Say you come across a fantastic story that has no stated/confirmed pairing in the beginning.  As you read more and enjoy it more, you reach a turning point in the story where a pairing you do not prefer is confirmed.  "Three Pieces of an Annoying Complex Puzzle" is one such example.  Do you continue to read it?

More often than not, I keep reading. I only stop if the OOC is terrible enough to warrant it. Hell, I got through a super!Ranma/MS with mass OC's and OOC's and... NEVER AGAIN.

"What? Sasuke bought flowers and he booked reservations at a lavish restaurant? Is this still the same need-to-kill-my-brother-for-the-respect-of-dead-people-emoSasuke we're talking about? Oh, he killed his brother in an obscure fashion and now he's 'all better'? Oops, I closed the window by accident."

On a side note, I hope Red Crow's 'Second Chances' doesn't become Sasu/Saku and he goes for a Team 7 friendship. His emphasize on Naruto's once bleak future does not deserve a Sasu/Saku.


And about fanfiction experiences...

Click For Spoiler

Yeah, it's impossible to appeal to all readers. You win-some, you lose-some. That's always how it is.
And I'd never had a yaoi-lover shove their pairing down my throat. o.o
I'd had one that actually enjoyed my work, but... jeeze. That's... speechless.

The first, first time I wrote fanfiction, I did so horribly. I broke several fanfic pet-peeve rules... MS shipper, shoving the main cast, OOC, fanboy japanese, list goes on. The advice I got, I took too harshly and it took me 7 years to get back into writing again.

But now, I've learned from my mistakes and am willing to go further to excel as a writer. ^^

[desaix]

Well... I don't really have much to contribute to this discussion, because for many of these questions I would answer with 'I don't know,' but I'll try and answer some of them.

I write the way I write because I enjoy writing that way. I read what I want to read because I enjoy it. Typically, I won't enjoy a fic if it contradicts a pairing I prefer. It has nothing to do with the quality of writing (although that definitely helps), but I won't read a fic in a pairing I don't support, and probably would break off if an otherwise good fic suddenly changed on me. However, it's never happened in my experience, so I can't say for certain. I enjoy writing the pairings I prefer, and never really thought about why I included them -- I just enjoy doing so.

As far as shipping in the summaries goes... well, I use shipping information to 'pair down' large categories (like, say, the almost 30,000 Naruto fanfics on ff.net... although I'd say the same for any category over about three hundred fics worth on ff.net) to something more managable to browse through. I assume at least some others do the same. So, I include that information for those people who do as I do, and look for that notification when searching for fics myself.

If you were talking a smaller category -- like, say, Patlabor (with fewer then twenty-five English-language fics in the world), well... what's the point? No-one needs to 'pair down' the number of fics to search for it. I might include that info if it was a lemon (have in the past -- You're in Charge, a... rather odd challenge fic) or a pure waff romance, or if the pairing was integral to the story. Tylor's Fury, my anime-canon Irresponsible Tylor fanfic which has been on extended hiatus for several years now (because I loaned out my copy of the Tylor anime series to a friend, never got it back, and never replaced it, so all of my canon-source reference material is gone) would sort of require Tylor\Yuriko to be in the summary, because the plot is basically Tylor goes a little nuts when Yuriko (who has literally just told him she's pregnant with his child) is hospitalized after an attack blamed on the Raalgon Empire. Mentioning the ship, there, is just... well, obvious.

I've had a few 'are you sure you're reviewing the right fic' sort of comments regarding pairings, but nothing notable. And as far as people railing on me about my own choice of pairings goes... well, I've had people argue with me about whether certain pairings should be considered canon, but never about whether I should be able to write those pairings into my own fanfic. The one exception being the reason I was scared off, for so long, from Naruto -- yaoi writers who insist the yaoi is 'virtually canon.' There are some out there, especially in the Naruto fandom (and in the Gundam fandom, but since I've never been at all interested in Gundam I've never been bothered by it), who insist that anyone who even THINKS about a het pairing for THEIR series is commiting a form of heresy, and will violently attack you (sometimes literally, as during one really awful anime con experience) for doing so. But to people who've actually read the fanfic and not just the summary? Not really got many 'negative' replies just for the pairing, before. A few people who thought Naruto should sleep around a bit in the early parts of Training, but nothing significant.

So... well, I guess I answered more of your question then I thought I would. But, well, most of my answer is 'None of these things are very significant to me,' so... I'm not entirely sure what to say about it all.