Jump to content

Close
Photo

Boruto: The Gaiden arc Episode 19


  • Please log in to reply
117 replies to this topic

#101 sushi.

sushi.

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,515 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:up north

Posted 14 August 2017 - 08:46 PM

Not to mention that the head poke, up until the last chapter, has always represented distance. That Sasuke was close to Itachi physically but emotionally distant, hence why he even states during the flashback that he always felt so far away from his brother. And now that Itachi's physically gone, that distance is now tenfold. I never viewed it as a positive thing. Yet it suddenly becomes a romantic gesture because it's done to Sakura? What? That part at least to me felt out of place. 

 

Kind of like how Burrito pulls pranks in order to parallel Naruto's childhood antics to his. However...Naruto pulled those pranks because he felt hated and alone and it was the only way he felt like he could get people's attention. So it's not a well-done parallel IMO. It doesn't fully take into account the feelings behind the action. 

Yes. When Itachi died, he didn't poke Sasuke's forehead, he pushed their foreheads together. Sakura thinks the forehead poke is Sasuke's flirting language I almost pity her.

 

Burroto's parallel should've made one stark difference, that when he's painting the walls it's because he's 12 and mischevious, not because he's lonely and 1/2 fatherless. Because the parallels were always made in order to send the message that the new generation will be better and live better than the last. Naruto's generation fought a war to ensure a bright future but it's not like that now.


Edited by sushi., 14 August 2017 - 08:47 PM.

1fhb8w.jpg
2yy341y.jpg
ナルサク

#102 yimiiyumi

yimiiyumi

    Ezio

  • Chakra Tree Climber
  • PipPip
  • 271 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Russian

Posted 14 August 2017 - 08:51 PM

You have to remember man, that the one who did them was a Hinata fan/Sakura hater they don't give a kitten about Sakura all his main aim id to make Sakura look back so that Kishi can give him the go ahead to kill her, and maybe have Hinata do it.

I don't think so, if you ignore the whole "sasuke-kun will accept my love ?" drama the novel is pretty good to sakura, it even says sakura is the strongest kunoichi and one of the strongest shinobis in the world



#103 The Doctor forever

The Doctor forever

    Academy Student

  • Academy Student
  • Pip
  • 38 posts

Posted 14 August 2017 - 08:58 PM

I don't think so, if you ignore the whole "sasuke-kun will accept my love ?" drama the novel is pretty good to sakura, it even says sakura is the strongest kunoichi and one of the strongest shinobis in the world

Maybe so but who knows Maybe and I might be over thinking this Kishi told them to make Sakura look good, this was while he still in his own kittened up way cares for her.

 

I still think Kishi is the worst writer ever man, and he kittened both Naruto and Sakura over big time, all to make Hinata happy.



#104 sushi.

sushi.

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,515 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:up north

Posted 14 August 2017 - 09:02 PM

Maybe so but who knows Maybe and I might be over thinking this Kishi told them to make Sakura look good, this was while he still in his own kittened up way cares for her.

 

I still think Kishi is the worst writer ever man, and he kittened both Naruto and Sakura over big time, all to make Hinata happy.

But Hinata isn't happy. She looks pretty down in the Boruto movie and otherwise we don't know but logically she'd be hella depressed because of her family situation. Point is I really disagree when people say Naruto and Sasuke are trophies or got sacrificied to make the girls happy because..have you looked at their lives..


1fhb8w.jpg
2yy341y.jpg
ナルサク

#105 The Doctor forever

The Doctor forever

    Academy Student

  • Academy Student
  • Pip
  • 38 posts

Posted 14 August 2017 - 09:27 PM

But Hinata isn't happy. She looks pretty down in the Boruto movie and otherwise we don't know but logically she'd be hella depressed because of her family situation. Point is I really disagree when people say Naruto and Sasuke are trophies or got sacrificied to make the girls happy because..have you looked at their lives..

Oh I have they suck well Naruto at least looks like he is in his late 60's from the way he looks, Sasuke he the hell knows.



#106 Analyzer

Analyzer

    Special Jounin

  • Special Jounin
  • PipPipPip
  • 789 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 15 August 2017 - 03:59 AM

 

And again, you subtly attempt to get around dealing with what was actually said. Oh yes, Sasuke does not understand why Sakura does things. But you know what? Neither does flippin-Kakashi! Instead, he tries to play it off as if it's a good thing ("love doesn't need a reason!"). 

 

Proposing to Chouji would be out of nowhere? I agree, which is why is exactly my point here. To further illustrate my point, let us instead say Sasuke comes out and confesses to Naruto instead. That actually has some foundation to stand on when you consider Naruto's obsessive behavior throughout all of part 2 and how Sasuke reciprocated it in 698. Because Sasuke's views have changed, that would not be out of character, right?

 

Except that's problematic, because Naruto and Sasuke is explicitly  defined as brotherly. At least NS was considered, SNS has nothing. SS does have foundations and moments, a lot of things informed, mind, but its ending makes sense. 

 

So no, doesn't work. 

 

Not to mention that the head poke, up until the last chapter, has always represented distance. That Sasuke was close to Itachi physically but emotionally distant, hence why he even states during the flashback that he always felt so far away from his brother. And now that Itachi's physically gone, that distance is now tenfold. I never viewed it as a positive thing. Yet it suddenly becomes a romantic gesture because it's done to Sakura? What? That part at least to me felt out of place. 

 

Kind of like how Burrito pulls pranks in order to parallel Naruto's childhood antics to his. However...Naruto pulled those pranks because he felt hated and alone and it was the only way he felt like he could get people's attention. So it's not a well-done parallel IMO. It doesn't fully take into account the feelings behind the action. 

 

It does, but it also still represents distance in a way, yes. 

 

You have to remember man, that the one who did them was a Hinata fan/Sakura hater they don't give a kitten about Sakura all his main aim is to make Sakura look bad so that Kishi can give him the go ahead to kill her, and maybe have Hinata do it.

 

Maybe so but who knows Maybe and I might be over thinking this Kishi told them to make Sakura look good, this was while he still in his own kittened up way cares for her.

 

I still think Kishi is the worst writer ever man, and he kittened both Naruto and Sakura over big time, all to make Hinata happy.

 

 

But Hinata isn't happy. She looks pretty down in the Boruto movie and otherwise we don't know but logically she'd be hella depressed because of her family situation. Point is I really disagree when people say Naruto and Sasuke are trophies or got sacrificied to make the girls happy because..have you looked at their lives..

 

 

 

 

This is objectively false, all three of these. The second far worse than the first. That narrative doesn't even make sense. 

 

And the third... guys, it's called plot? You have an issue, you go through motions, and its resolved. I'm not even sure where this Hinata isn't happy comes from, where the correct context is that she's dealing with a family situation, that gets better. 


Edited by Analyzer, 15 August 2017 - 04:02 AM.


#107 Qia

Qia

    Little Weasel

  • Examiner
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,060 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Too many to name

Posted 15 August 2017 - 04:43 AM

"It does, but it also still represents distance in a way, yes."

 

You...haven't shown why it represents a romantic gesture? Just because Kishi meant it to be isn't enough of a justification...if that is your justification. Because up until that moment it represented distance. And there was nothing to show in any previous scene that the meaning had changed so....

 

Sorry, I should have stated this as well. Not only does it represent distance, but specifically it represents "I'm sorry, perhaps next time". It's an apology, in a way. But...this still doesn't show how it can suddenly be used as a romantic gesture, especially since Sakura wouldn't get the significance behind it and its link to Sasuke's brother. 


Edited by Qia, 15 August 2017 - 09:49 AM.

tumblr_inline_ouhl035m4V1rs9h02_540.jpg


#108 Analyzer

Analyzer

    Special Jounin

  • Special Jounin
  • PipPipPip
  • 789 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 15 August 2017 - 12:56 PM

"It does, but it also still represents distance in a way, yes."

 

You...haven't shown why it represents a romantic gesture? Just because Kishi meant it to be isn't enough of a justification...if that is your justification. Because up until that moment it represented distance. And there was nothing to show in any previous scene that the meaning had changed so....

 

Sorry, I should have stated this as well. Not only does it represent distance, but specifically it represents "I'm sorry, perhaps next time". It's an apology, in a way. But...this still doesn't show how it can suddenly be used as a romantic gesture, especially since Sakura wouldn't get the significance behind it and its link to Sasuke's brother. 

 

It is a gesture of love, as shown in previous interactions, but it is also a gesture of distance. It means both of these things. The translation of Sasuke's answer in the scene of 693 to Sakura's question, which is a romantic proposition, is, "Not now, but when I return". 

 

...Also "Just because Kishi meant it to be isn't enough of a justification?" He shows it and means it. If we are ignoring the author and the manga, you're more or less taking away evidence. 


Edited by Analyzer, 15 August 2017 - 12:56 PM.


#109 Qia

Qia

    Little Weasel

  • Examiner
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,060 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Too many to name

Posted 15 August 2017 - 01:32 PM

 

It is a gesture of love, as shown in previous interactions, but it is also a gesture of distance. It means both of these things. The translation of Sasuke's answer in the scene of 693 to Sakura's question, which is a romantic proposition, is, "Not now, but when I return". 

 

...Also "Just because Kishi meant it to be isn't enough of a justification?" He shows it and means it. If we are ignoring the author and the manga, you're more or less taking away evidence. 

I'll answer your first part once I get some sleep because I'm exhausted. However, about your second part, it's ok to respect the author's intentions in a story but if I'm analyzing it's best to take it from my own perspective while reading it. That is really the only way you can properly analyze a piece of literature and determine if the author was successful with showing his intentions in the first place. So while I'm NOT ignoring his intentions and do respect them, that doesn't mean I should use his words as evidence for anything at all. The only thing I'm required to do is take in what I have read in a piece of literature and compare it to those intentions. 


tumblr_inline_ouhl035m4V1rs9h02_540.jpg


#110 Analyzer

Analyzer

    Special Jounin

  • Special Jounin
  • PipPipPip
  • 789 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 15 August 2017 - 01:46 PM

I'll answer your first part once I get some sleep because I'm exhausted. However, about your second part, it's ok to respect the author's intentions in a story but if I'm analyzing it's best to take it from my own perspective while reading it. That is really the only way you can properly analyze a piece of literature and determine if the author was successful with showing his intentions in the first place. So while I'm NOT ignoring his intentions and do respect them, that doesn't mean I should use his words as evidence for anything at all. The only thing I'm required to do is take in what I have read in a piece of literature and compare it to those intentions. 

 

This is an argument of execution, you can certainly argue that SS could have been executed better, but it does not erase that the forehead poke is romantic, symbolizing love and distance. They're separate things, execution and meaning, and separate topics.

 

I myself have said that elements of SS was not executed well, the foundation is there, it is informed, but its more informed than shown. Also criticized the execution of the Team 7 Dynamic in general, Sakura, the resurrection at the end of the Pain Arc, etc. 


Edited by Analyzer, 15 August 2017 - 01:47 PM.


#111 ThroughWithLove

ThroughWithLove

    Special Jounin

  • Special Jounin
  • PipPipPip
  • 850 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 August 2017 - 08:10 PM

 

Except that's problematic, because Naruto and Sasuke is explicitly  defined as brotherly. At least NS was considered, SNS has nothing. SS does have foundations and moments, a lot of things informed, mind, but its ending makes sense. 

 

So no, doesn't work. 

 

And Sakura is defined as someone he is explicitly not interested in. Unlike Naruto, he has no bond to severe with Sakura. So why are you in favor of him suddenly becoming romantically interested in someone he has zero interest in as opposed to someone he at least has an established bond with?


tumblr_nbk8omBr391r01du3o3_500.gif

 

Behold! Akame ga Kill's True Canon Pairing!


#112 Analyzer

Analyzer

    Special Jounin

  • Special Jounin
  • PipPipPip
  • 789 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 15 August 2017 - 09:57 PM

 

And Sakura is defined as someone he is explicitly not interested in. Unlike Naruto, he has no bond to severe with Sakura. So why are you in favor of him suddenly becoming romantically interested in someone he has zero interest in as opposed to someone he at least has an established bond with?

 

Because the reasons for him doing so are removed.

 

Furher, 693 is Sasuke not understanding why Sakura would love her, and thus his responses. He also doesn't understand why Naruto keeps getting hi sway. The entire final chapters and 698 are about him finally understanding.

 

If you missed this, you're going to have a big question mark, and that's understandable. There is a valid argument for the execution of Sakura and Sasuke's bond, Naruto and Sakura's bond, and even Naruto and Sasuke's bond of having flawed execution, but its informed, and the foundation is there. 



#113 ThroughWithLove

ThroughWithLove

    Special Jounin

  • Special Jounin
  • PipPipPip
  • 850 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 August 2017 - 10:15 PM

 

Because the reasons for him doing so are removed.

 

Furher, 693 is Sasuke not understanding why Sakura would love her, and thus his responses. He also doesn't understand why Naruto keeps getting hi sway. The entire final chapters and 698 are about him finally understanding.

 

If you missed this, you're going to have a big question mark, and that's understandable. There is a valid argument for the execution of Sakura and Sasuke's bond, Naruto and Sakura's bond, and even Naruto and Sasuke's bond of having flawed execution, but its informed, and the foundation is there. 

 

Removed from what? He couldn't see the light until chapter 698, right? Who is to say this light can't involve him falling in love with someone he actually has a bond with already? You keep giving vague and unspecfic answers that lead me to suspect that even you yourself know SasuSaku was terribly executed.

 

The entire final chapters have absolutely nothing to do with Sakura, much less any notion of suppressed love or feelings for her. At no point does she get mentioned or referred to in Naruto's conversation. Something Naruto would be quick to refer to were it a point of contention ( as we see when he calls out Zabuza on his BS about Haku merely being a tool to him). And once more, it's not just Sasuke who doesn't understand why Sakura would love him. It's Kakashi as well, who tries to pass this off as a good thing with his love doesn't need a reason. Or are we to believe Kakashi undergoes similar understanding after chapter 698? You keep making justifications that just aren't reflected what actually gets said in the chapter and the reason for this is pretty straightforward: There is no rhyme or reason to SS. It happens just cuz


tumblr_nbk8omBr391r01du3o3_500.gif

 

Behold! Akame ga Kill's True Canon Pairing!


#114 Analyzer

Analyzer

    Special Jounin

  • Special Jounin
  • PipPipPip
  • 789 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 16 August 2017 - 12:24 AM

 

Removed from what? He couldn't see the light until chapter 698, right? Who is to say this light can't involve him falling in love with someone he actually has a bond with already? You keep giving vague and unspecfic answers that lead me to suspect that even you yourself know SasuSaku was terribly executed.

 

The entire final chapters have absolutely nothing to do with Sakura, much less any notion of suppressed love or feelings for her. At no point does she get mentioned or referred to in Naruto's conversation. Something Naruto would be quick to refer to were it a point of contention ( as we see when he calls out Zabuza on his BS about Haku merely being a tool to him). And once more, it's not just Sasuke who doesn't understand why Sakura would love him. It's Kakashi as well, who tries to pass this off as a good thing with his love doesn't need a reason. Or are we to believe Kakashi undergoes similar understanding after chapter 698? You keep making justifications that just aren't reflected what actually gets said in the chapter and the reason for this is pretty straightforward: There is no rhyme or reason to SS. It happens just cuz

 

 

SS has a foundation, and it is shown. Just listed an example in the Forest in the Chuunin Exams, you have the post moment in the exams, and a few touches during the War Arc. I also want to add that you don't see Sasuke fall in love with Sakura in the manga. His entire thing is basically starting the relationship at 699. It's not an I love you, which is what you are mis-understanding. 

 

It's not just because. It was quite informed it was going to go that way. 

 

I may go and give this a deeper elaboration at some point. 



#115 ThroughWithLove

ThroughWithLove

    Special Jounin

  • Special Jounin
  • PipPipPip
  • 850 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 August 2017 - 12:40 AM

 

SS has a foundation, and it is shown. Just listed an example in the Forest in the Chuunin Exams, you have the post moment in the exams, and a few touches during the War Arc. I also want to add that you don't see Sasuke fall in love with Sakura in the manga. His entire thing is basically starting the relationship at 699. It's not an I love you, which is what you are mis-understanding. 

 

It's not just because. It was quite informed it was going to go that way. 

 

I may go and give this a deeper elaboration at some point. 

 

Wait and I just want to be clear: Are you saying Sasuke, as of 699, does not love Sakura? Maybe I'm not reading things correctly, but that's what it looks like you're saying. 


Edited by ThroughWithLove, 16 August 2017 - 12:47 AM.

tumblr_nbk8omBr391r01du3o3_500.gif

 

Behold! Akame ga Kill's True Canon Pairing!


#116 Analyzer

Analyzer

    Special Jounin

  • Special Jounin
  • PipPipPip
  • 789 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 16 August 2017 - 12:56 AM

 

Wait and I just want to be clear: Are you saying Sasuke, as of 699, does not love Sakura? Maybe I'm not reading things correctly, but that's what it looks like you're saying. 

 

Not in a full on sense, no, at this not at that time. By the time we get to Gaiden though, and certainly events before that, yes. 



#117 ThroughWithLove

ThroughWithLove

    Special Jounin

  • Special Jounin
  • PipPipPip
  • 850 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 August 2017 - 01:05 AM

 

Not in a full on sense, no, at this not at that time. By the time we get to Gaiden though, and certainly events before that, yes. 

 

What do you mean by not in a full on sense? It seems like a simple issue: Does 699 Sasuke love Sakura or not? You seemed to suggest he doesn't in your previous post and I'm just seeking clarification before I continue.


tumblr_nbk8omBr391r01du3o3_500.gif

 

Behold! Akame ga Kill's True Canon Pairing!


#118 Analyzer

Analyzer

    Special Jounin

  • Special Jounin
  • PipPipPip
  • 789 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 16 August 2017 - 01:17 AM

 

What do you mean by not in a full on sense? It seems like a simple issue: Does 699 Sasuke love Sakura or not? You seemed to suggest he doesn't in your previous post and I'm just seeking clarification before I continue.

 

I.E., not in a full on sense, being, not in a completely confirmable sense. 






2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users