54175 replies to this topic

[Riverkid]

I can use the 500s, and show Sakura thinks of Sasuke when a letter is brought her way. The point? There is no narrative shift. This love endures, rather than fades and shifts.

And whats your point ? You are describing Kishimotos intention, thats all about it. We are talking about wheter its good or bad from a storywriting standpoint. The letter was "after" the act where sasuke nearly killed Sakura. Just let it sink for a moment. Sasuke nearly killed Sakura! and not just by accident.

Whenever someone tries to debate something, you go back to kishimotos intention.

[Riverkid]

 

I'm illustrating there was no narrative shift, confirming my point with Gurmeet. If you want to debate whether it's quality, that's different. 

 

Sakura was also about to kill Sasuke out of love right before this scene. What is your point with this argument? They are enemies. She is not seeking to be with him at this time. This isn't actually the first time I've seen this trope, unrequited love of a person who spirals into darkness, through manipulation or otherwise, does terrible things, is saved by the darkness either by the lover or someone else, then, when free of the darkness, can finally reciprocate. Nothing holds them back anymore. You could play it tragically, and have the person die, being Sasuke (Or Sakura even, or both). That was a possible ending. Kishimoto chose otherwise. 

 

Nothing is perfect, though. I think there needs to be another arc to better establish these relationships so SS has more to anchor on, and it could have used a tiny bit more at the end, (Perhaps a talk in his cell), but I understand why both of these things didn't happen. 

 

But I absolutely don't believe them trying to kill eachother at this point has any bearing on Sakura later wanting a relationship, particularly when Sakura is combating him out of love. 

Illustrating? do you also want to illustrate the color of an apple despite everyone can already see it ? kek

Its kinda a waste of time describing something so obvious, that everyone already knows about it

Sakura could have killed Sasuke, yes.. however she didn't.. and thats okey. Whats not okey is her unhealthy crush/obsession towards Sasuke. 

[Riverkid]

 

Ignoring the diction mockery, how does Sakura have an unhealthy obsession/crush with Sasuke? 

is that a real question?

[Gurmeet]

I can use the 500s, and show Sakura thinks of Sasuke when a letter is brought her way. The point? There is no narrative shift. This love endures, rather than fades and shifts.

yeah endures due to the love of the fans.All before it was shown her love was fading and boom comes the letter all the character development goes down the drain. You yourself said that narrative shift why was it needed.

Edited by Gurmeet, 22 September 2017 - 02:45 PM.

[Illnevergiveup3]

LOL! LOOK AT THE COMICALLY RIDICULOUS AMOUNT OF PAPERWORK STACKED UP BEHIND HIM. BORUTO'S A JOKE.

[Gurmeet]

is that a real question?

They ruined her character she even had grown out of saskue shadow's but after the fake confession all went downhill.

[Illnevergiveup3]

I must be the only one who didn't think that her confession to Naruto was fake, but just done at the wrong time.

Edited by Illnevergiveup3, 22 September 2017 - 02:40 PM.

[Gurmeet]

Yes. 
 

 
She was never in "Sasuke's shadow". And Sasuke was always part of Sakura's character. Character dev wise, the Fake Confession is a positive moment, I don't see downhill progression.

yeah you don't you got your pairings.Kisimoto defended the confession that her feelings were more or less true.

Edited by Gurmeet, 22 September 2017 - 02:49 PM.

[thelordofspace72]

Analyzer.

The only thing I do not understand is that you see what Kishumoto decides

He is wise.

But if you see that his decision is great and you see that SS + NH is better than NS why you are narusaku fan if you just insult their love and everything in them.

if you like sasusaku so much more then narusaku why don't you stop Lying to yourself

[Qia]

I must be the only one who didn't think that her confession to Naruto was fake, but just done at the wrong time.

 you're not the only one. I've held that view ever since it came out, and yes I have considered alternative views and they never made sense with previous scenes shown, words that were said in the moment and after, actions made, and Kishi's supposed defense of Sakura after it came out. 

[Illnevergiveup3]

it's funny to me. I read Chapter 693 again, and I realized something. It was strange. In my opinion, I don't think her "confession" was what most people thinks it was. I think it was an attempt to try to save Naruto once again and to try to bring him back for Naruto's sake and Team 7, like she told Naruto back on the Tenchi Bridge when he was 4 Tails.

Edited by Illnevergiveup3, 22 September 2017 - 03:37 PM.

[Nostradamus]

I must be the only one who didn't think that her confession to Naruto was fake, but just done at the wrong time.

Not by a long shoot mate.

[Gurmeet]

The manga nor the interview support that.  She wanted to protect Naruto, and she gave honest reasons on why she -should- love Naruto instead. But she did not love Naruto romantically, instead, she loved Sasuke, that love never waned.

I don't know was u are using love when it was just a crush.When it changed to love when they never met after the sound arc is beyond me.

Edited by Gurmeet, 22 September 2017 - 03:42 PM.

[Gurmeet]

Nowhere am I saying that X pairing is better than NS. I have never said that.
 
Comparison wise, I have only said that in regards to development, contrary to the common belief on this site, NH has the most. 
 
I also haven't insulted NS, and never will. I also don't ship SS (Nothing wrong with shipping multiple ships), too angsty for me. 
 
 

 
How is it just a crush?

So is it love?

Edited by Gurmeet, 22 September 2017 - 03:49 PM.

[Kagomaru]

 

Analyzer.

The only thing I do not understand is that you see what Kishumoto decides

He is wise.

But if you see that his decision is great and you see that SS + NH is better than NS why you are narusaku fan if you just insult their love and everything in them.

if you like sasusaku so much more then narusaku why don't you stop Lying to yourself

 

At this point,  I question if this is less about pairings and more about defending Kishimoto himself from deserved criticism towards his writing. She perceives him as a superb writer who doesn't create plot holes, is unaffected by external pressures, and had the story's plot and script written out from the beginning (even though Kishi himself, before he started contradicting himself in Post-2014 interviews, admitted that the only thing he had planned was the final battle between Naruto and Sasuke).  Her arguments against NaruSaku are beginning to seem like an extension of that defense.

Edited by Kagomaru, 22 September 2017 - 04:13 PM.

[Illnevergiveup3]

what if Kishimoto himself learned how to speak and type in English and that's his puppet account to defend himself and the crap he pulled? *BOOM*

[Qia]

what if Kishimoto himself learned how to speak and type in English and that's his puppet account to defend himself and the crap he pulled? *BOOM*

pretty sure he doesn't have a computer or social media account so not likely lol. He said something like this long ago.

[Nostradamus]

pretty sure he doesn't have a computer or social media account so not likely lol. He said something like this long ago.

So we thought, until we find out that he was watching Sawyer's videos.

No wonder the ending is trash.

[Riverkid]

Yes. 

A unhealthy relationship (doesn't have to be a romantical relationship) is a relationship where atleast one Person within the relationship has to bear/suffer from the products, created by the relationship itself or the other included Person. A unhealthy relationship is also called when atleast on person is directed to a bad path (by the relationship, or the other included Person) which will provide possible consequences to affect the said person in a negative way. 

This does not require a steady relationship such as a friendship or romantical-relationship. A unhealty relationship can occur on every relations. 

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The tone between Sasuke and Sakura are clear from the start. Sakura has a crush on Sasuke. Sasuke not having a interest in relationships/bonds at all with other persons.

This leads to Sakura hitting on a wall from the beginning, making it almost impossible to get Sasuke because of his determination to achieve his own goals.

How does that affect Sakura ? She is desperate, because nothing seems to work. In fact it only provoces Sasuke to be annoyed by Sakuras feelings, returning cold and harsh replies from Sasuke. 

Sakura feels down and hurt. All the care and worry she tries to have for her teammate only leads to be put down by the said teammate. 

This only leads to two conclusions. Sasuke doesn't deserve the warmth of Sakura, and Sakura being selfless and reckless to herself by making her too dependent on Sasuke.

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Its already clear at this stage that sakura is suffering from the relationship she have with Sasuke. All her feelings don't get the needed attention, in fact they only get cold and hearthbreaking replies. There would be the case were a person who truly 'loves' the other person would go that far. But how is the 'love' of Sakura justified ? 

There are no profound reasons for Sakura to truly 'love' Sasuke, because she doesn't know Sasuke exactly. Her 'crush' towards him was solely because of his appearance. She is teamed-up with Sasuke which provides more time and nearness towards him, however she only get to know what his main-goals are and how far he would go to achieve them, even if it means to walk down a bad path. + how cold Sasuke really can be.

There are no lights showing from Sasukes Characterwriting which could open up possible rooms for Sakura to symphatize with him, neither to open space to grow feelings over. Sasuke is more or less just a meatball of egoism, arrogance and a negativ mentality

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Sakura still having a 'crush' on Sasuke after the timeskip is in my opinion unjustified. 3 years passed which gave Sakura time to mature, yet she still hold on that crush which was just build up from his appearance and never really did grow over the time because of the way Sasuke was treating her and how he widened the distance between him and his team. 

Sakura still suffers from Sasuke, whenever she thinks about him. Feeling down and hurt whenever she interacts with him. nearly being killed twice because of him. 

Still holding onto her feelings when Sasuke nearly killed "friends" of her who supported her more than Sasuke ever did is just a serious psychological problem. There is no excuse and development for that behaviour of Sakura to feel/act like that at all. Whenever someone/something is trying to remove dear things in your life you automatically start to "hate" that source as an effect to protect the things you hold dear. 

She spent more time with Naruto and Kakashi, and yet she doesn't feel anger or hate towards Sasuke who tried to kill them.. instead she loves him ?! How is just justified ? there are no hints or development to let Sakura feel like that. Its a locked element within her Characterdesign which happens in other Characters too. It makes them static and flat.

She is devoting herself to someone who 90% of the time tried/did nothing else than to harm her/her friends and neglecting her feelings.

The fact that Sasuke didn't even have to prove himself being worth her feelings, after all he did, is ridiculous. 

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From a Stroywriting standpoint it also affected anything in a negative way. 

Making Sakura be a obsessed Fangirl around Sasuke just puts her in a bad light. It would be okey at the beginning, and then to develop her out of that death zone.. but Kishimoto didn't. The Fanbase hated Sakura because of her annoyance and her locked personality which refused her to mature and to grow out of the hole she is sticked since the start. 

The obsession from her (and Naruto) also start to annoy the Fanbase because its exaggerated and faaaaar over the comprehensible line. It damaged Sakuras and Narutos character way to much than it should have, and Kishimoto allowed that. 

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so yes, Sakura has a unhealty relationship with Sasuke. a relationship which was also unhealthy for the story
 

Edited by Riverkid, 22 September 2017 - 04:40 PM.

[Riverkid]

 

 

What I defend really are criticisms that the ending is bad, because he did not make NS happen, which is the root of most arguments that I see. NS would have been great, but not having it happen does not make the story bad. 

why would someone use NS as an argumentation to why the ending was bad when there are 10x other things to compensate that argumentation ?