54 replies to this topic

[Sakura Blossoms]

FINAL UPDATE

LiveChat will be re-opened anytime after 12am, Friday April 27th.

Now pay very strict attention to these 2 items listed below:

(1) This is the final time we will be doing this. If we have to shutdown LiveChat again because people are misbehaving, it will be eliminated permanently.

(2) As Smiter has already said, all chats will be supervised by a mod. In other words the chat will only be open when a Mod is present.

As stated LC will be open only when there is at least one Mod present to monitor it. When that Mod...or Mods...decide to leave, LC will be once again closed.

We don't want to hear any griping about interrupted conversations, because the Mod decided to leave to take care of other business. You have all basically lost you're rights to complain. Maybe one day you can prove to us that you don't need to be watched like hawks every second. Until then this is how things are going to be. Hopefully we won't have any more incidents that will cause us to have to close LC again, because as stated above it will be for the very last time. And I for one, don't want to lose LC. It's a privilege to have it and I...(and I'm sure you all)...would love to enjoy it for a very long time to come

[Saku-chan]

Hey I really don't mind that a Mod is required to chat. (Maybe if they leave and the chat closes, I will do my work. XD)

I'm sorry to hear about the incident, but all I can say is hey we all do dumb things. I did a few today. I would just like people to be bit more honest and caring in the future. It's no reason to quit either.

Look forward to seeing ya'll in the LC under Mod supervision of course.

[MagusKyros]

I just don't see why you guys not temporarily suspended the troublemakers from chat. I know you guys don't have to do something like that, but because of a couple of people, we all have to go pay the price.

It's like giving an entire classroom after school detention for the actions of a couple of people.

[Derock]

I just don't see why you guys not temporarily suspended the troublemakers from chat. I know you guys don't have to do something like that, but because of a couple of people, we all have to go pay the price.

It's like giving an entire classroom after school detention for the actions of a couple of people.

That's already been taken care of, Magus.

[MagusKyros]

That's already been taken care of, Magus.

Ah, I meant like suspending the people, but not doing anything to the chat.

It's what larger, and properly administered forums and chat rooms (Not like NarutoFan >.>) do to avoid disrupting the community. They get rid of troublemakers, community doesn't get affected much (just loses some members), let out a warning to people to not break the rules, and everything goes on as if nothing happened, but with the fresh knowledge to not screw up.

Of course, what happened does leak out into the public, and discussions ensue, but those threads are swiftly locked and people go about their business. If it's a chat room problem, the people are just given a warning not to talk about it, and they'll know through logs (like you guys did).

Just thought I'd throw this method out there; even though this is a smaller forum, it still works from what I've seen. I do like your current idea of adding more admins though. It's like hiring system administrators at a company, or doctors at a hospital; the more you have, the better (as long as they're qualified of course, and there is a limit to admins unlike doctors at network managers).

[Sakura Blossoms]

Ah, I meant like suspending the people, but not doing anything to the chat.

It's what larger, and properly administered forums and chat rooms (Not like NarutoFan >.>) do to avoid disrupting the community. They get rid of troublemakers, community doesn't get affected much (just loses some members), let out a warning to people to not break the rules, and everything goes on as if nothing happened, but with the fresh knowledge to not screw up.

We shut it down because certain people obviously couldn't be trusted to behave without Mod supervision. And if we had left the LC up and running while we investigated the incident...that happened without Mod supervision...we'd be kind of missing the point of preventing such incidents from happening again, by leaving the chat improperly supervised.

It's what larger, and properly administered forums

Heaven and Earth is more than properly administrated. We have some of the best people you could ever possibly hope to work with, administering to this site. And this forum is a much better, more pleasant, and way more fun to be at than any of those so-called 'larger' forums.

It's what larger, and properly administered forums and chat rooms (Not like NarutoFan >.>) do to avoid disrupting the community. They get rid of troublemakers, community doesn't get affected much (just loses some members),

And we don't see how closing the chatroom for a few days, is that disruptive to the community. The chatroom is not Heaven and Earth. This forum was getting along perfectly well before a chatroom was ever installed. And if...(by the actions of less considerate members)...it is ever permanently removed, H&E will continue to get along just fine without it. Just like it always has.

Any forum that depends on a chatroom to create it's community, is a very sad community indeed.

[Eagle8819]

Ah, I meant like suspending the people, but not doing anything to the chat.

It's what larger, and properly administered forums and chat rooms (Not like NarutoFan >.>) do to avoid disrupting the community. They get rid of troublemakers, community doesn't get affected much (just loses some members), let out a warning to people to not break the rules, and everything goes on as if nothing happened, but with the fresh knowledge to not screw up.

Of course, what happened does leak out into the public, and discussions ensue, but those threads are swiftly locked and people go about their business. If it's a chat room problem, the people are just given a warning not to talk about it, and they'll know through logs (like you guys did).

Just thought I'd throw this method out there; even though this is a smaller forum, it still works from what I've seen. I do like your current idea of adding more admins though. It's like hiring system administrators at a company, or doctors at a hospital; the more you have, the better (as long as they're qualified of course, and there is a limit to admins unlike doctors at network managers).

Your way works, yes, but not as well.

And while I'm not exactly furious about what happened, I still am fairly disappointed about what happened - and that is due to the fact I had not expect it.

Therein lies the problem. We did not expect such an incident to occur at all. It isn't a laughing matter, and the mods and admins actions right now are steps to ensure the safety of both the forums and members. Trust me on this, we aren't happy either, but if it works, that's what we will do.

We can afford to give second chances in some cases, but not this one. If it had happened at a wrong time and with a wrong audience, the forum and members itself could be slammed down by authorities. You can laugh now and think it won't happen, but you wouldn't be laughing once it happens.

So the bottomline is, it cannot happen again.

Some of you may think this is unfair, but this is where we mods and admins cannot back off. Like what Sakura said, once you have shown us you are capable of handling yourselves, we may go back to the way we were.

And honestly? I hope that day comes soon.

Edit: Just noticed Sakura posted right before me. >_>

[Nate River]

Eagle's correct. For those that keep asking what happened check my original post, it's what it sounds like, and as Eagle pointed out if it had been seen by the wrong person we wouldn't be talking about chat restrictions, but about the site continued existence of the site itself. Because of the severity of the event we need to be unequivocal about our stance.

As she also points out, we don't expect any of this to happen.

We didn't expect people to get into so many fights within the span of a month, but it happened. We didn't expect this to occur, but it did.

I know it feels like punishing the whole for the actions of a few, but right now we don't we feel it can operate (without a mod) without something else happening. We gave the benefit of the doubt after all the constant fighting, and a month and half later something ten times worse happens.

I agree with Eagle, I hope the day comes soon.

[Draco_K]

Well I guess it can be said that a few bad apples... I think it's best if you left the chat closed for good to avoid situations like this again. I know some folks right now are screaming for my head to be put on a pike or to be burned at the stake or what ever they choose. I feel the LC is rather a un-needed luxury and sure it provides a place to hang out but isnt it the boards that make this place so great? We have great MODs as far as I'm concerned but can they always be available to sit around and keep a eye out on everyone? I know sometimes in RL its hard as hell to with household reasposibilites or work. For years I was a "goldie" in the MSN chats and I couldnt always be there to do the job, As we all know MSN closed the chats to prevent certain activities from happening and I think it might be a wise choice to follow in those steps. I will gladly accept anyones comments or questions on why I think this is a good idea.


Sincerely
Draco_K

[MagusKyros]

We shut it down because certain people obviously couldn't be trusted to behave without Mod supervision. And if we had left the LC up and running while we investigated the incident...that happened without Mod supervision...we'd be kind of missing the point of preventing such incidents from happening again, by leaving the chat improperly supervised.

Yes, and those people should be dealt with accordingly (aka temp ban or whatever). This isn't the first time this has happened before, but those other places just got rid of the troublemakers and took more precautions without doing anything to the features of the site.

Heaven and Earth is more than properly administrated. We have some of the best people you could ever possibly hope to work with, administering to this site. And this forum is a much better, more pleasant, and way more fun to be at than any of those so-called 'larger' forums.

Saku-B, I like you, but this is a very arrogant and opinionated statement. You don't know which 'larger' forum I'm talking about. I do believe that Nick, Shriner, and various other admins are good, and would more than likely get the admin position on any other site as well, and they (you included) have what it takes to be an admin, but that's just our opinion. I was never talking about the quality of the admins anyway, but the method you guys use.

Like I said, the more, qualified individuals you have moderating the forum/chat room, the better it is. TWL is one of the larger forums I was talking about. They have admins that cover the entire span of the day, and the European and Asian parts of the world as well. Their website and IRC is moderated at all times. Their admins have also even been called Nazi's before, for their strict and stubborn rules, but they never got rid of any feature of their site.

And we don't see how closing the chatroom for a few days, is that disruptive to the community. The chatroom is not Heaven and Earth. This forum was getting along perfectly well before a chatroom was ever installed. And if...(by the actions of less considerate members)...it is ever permanently removed, H&E will continue to get along just fine without it. Just like it always has.

Any forum that depends on a chatroom to create it's community, is a very sad community indeed.

Well, I posted a topic in the Naruto Gen subforum the day the chatroom got shut down, and I've only had one person reply to it. Now, I thought a topic like that would get more than one reply to it, but it didn't. The only active threads I see are ones that talk about the chapter/shippuuden episodes and those games in Ichiraku Cafe.

And I know a lot of people here have various topics to talk about, but you start wondering if the chat room was the only thing that you can communicate with people to talk about those topics. GoneKrazy once asked in chat (or was it Derock) if anybody ever read the forums anymore...

Like I said, we learn from our mistakes, and you guys aren't exempt from this either. You just didn't have enough admins, and you believed you did, but it didn't. The community (especially one related to anime/manga) aren't always going to be full of mature people either, so you have to take more precautions to make sure things don't get out of hand.

[Nick Soapdish]

Well, I posted a topic in the Naruto Gen subforum the day the chatroom got shut down, and I've only had one person reply to it. Now, I thought a topic like that would get more than one reply to it, but it didn't. The only active threads I see are ones that talk about the chapter/shippuuden episodes and those games in Ichiraku Cafe.

And I know a lot of people here have various topics to talk about, but you start wondering if the chat room was the only thing that you can communicate with people to talk about those topics. GoneKrazy once asked in chat (or was it Derock) if anybody ever read the forums anymore...

This part kind of sounds like you're arguing for it to be closed down also.

Before the LC (and FlashChat before that) opened, there was more discussion on the forums and not just on the chat thread despite the smaller number of members.

However, I must concede that even then, threads wouldn't get answered right away and some wouldn't at all. Some days are slower than others and sometimes, topics that seem perfectly viable just die.

[Nate River]

Okay, I'm opening it up and should be around most of the day.

[Sakura Blossoms]

Well, I posted a topic in the Naruto Gen subforum the day the chatroom got shut down, and I've only had one person reply to it. Now, I thought a topic like that would get more than one reply to it, but it didn't. The only active threads I see are ones that talk about the chapter/shippuuden episodes and those games in Ichiraku Cafe.

And I know a lot of people here have various topics to talk about, but you start wondering if the chat room was the only thing that you can communicate with people to talk about those topics. GoneKrazy once asked in chat (or was it Derock) if anybody ever read the forums anymore...

And you know what the problem with that all is...we've allowed ourselves to become spoiled by the chatroom. Heaven and Earth thrived for years without a chatroom, and certainly long before Naruto became such a popular hit in America. Now if the chatroom goes down, or is shut down for a few days, people start crying foul. I just want to know when H&E went from being synonymous with good, healthy discussions about our favourite pairing, and other topics of interest...to a website that seems to be dependant on its chatroom to keep any kind of good feeling of community going.

[MagusKyros]

This part kind of sounds like you're arguing for it to be closed down also.

Before the LC (and FlashChat before that) opened, there was more discussion on the forums and not just on the chat thread despite the smaller number of members.

However, I must concede that even then, threads wouldn't get answered right away and some wouldn't at all. Some days are slower than others and sometimes, topics that seem perfectly viable just die.

And you know what the problem with that all is...we've allowed ourselves to become spoiled by the chatroom. Heaven and Earth thrived for years without a chatroom, and certainly long before Naruto became such a popular hit in America. Now if the chatroom goes down, or is shut down for a few days, people start crying foul. I just want to know when H&E went from being synonymous with good, healthy discussions about our favourite pairing, and other topics of interest...to a website that seems to be dependant on its chatroom to keep any kind of good feeling of community going.

I would probably have to agree on the general idea that the chat room might have harmed the forum more than help. Outside of the threads I've mentioned, it's almost barren, which is kind of disappointing, because when I joined this forum, it was quite active. I started joining the chat room more often when things started slowing down, because it appeared to be the only place I could contact people.

Ah, well, your guys' new idea might help the forum out in the long run. If people don't have a place to chat, they'll have to resort to the boards sooner or later.