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#28561 DrK

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Posted 18 January 2020 - 09:25 AM

Naruto is a tragedy. Not one involving blonde idiot boy, pink girl and dark boy, but instead one involving Kishi and his editors. Kishi was weak, so the editors showed him many convincing arguments. Kishi rather than face the storm, chooses to "lament his failed character (pink girl)" and obediently do as he's being asked.

 

And then it sucks! I know, I know, I took too long to get to the tragedy. My bad.



#28562 RulesofNature

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Posted 18 January 2020 - 03:47 PM

 

And in some of those, like God of War, the protagonist realizes in the end that revenge solves NOTHING. Look how it also was in Hamlet; even when Hamlet managed to avenge his father by finally killing Claudius, he still died in the long run, and so many others he was tied to had died as well, both by his own actions and also by Claudius' manipulations.

Or look at how in the Elric Saga, the birthplace of dark fantasy, Elric's pay-evil-unto-evil mentality and willingness to do pretty much anything to achieve his goals gains him a widespread reputation of being evil (the fact his race used to rule the world with cruelty and sadism doesn't help either). And revenge is very often a motivation for the proud prince of ruins.


Edited by RulesofNature, 18 January 2020 - 03:50 PM.

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#28563 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 18 January 2020 - 04:11 PM

Tell me about it... and so did some of the light novels.

I've heard though I've heard Sakura showed how strong she is.  

He drew the covers for all of them. Not sure if he had any involvement in the content beyond that. For Boruto it is clear to me that he was giving them advice and ideas for the manga though.

But art work is different I'm talking more from a writing point did he write them.

#28564 Tsuki Hoshino

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Posted 18 January 2020 - 04:53 PM

The problem with the light novels is that it doesn't matter if they are canon or not. I shouldn't have to resort to light novels to get developement that should have been in the original source material.

I shouldnt have to chase down kittening books to see things that should have been in the manga and developing things that way alienates a good portion of the audience simply because they dont have access to them.

Even the person who wrote Sakura Retsudan said the novel was not canon because it wasnt written by Kishi.

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                                         Pls shame me for procrastinating.  :argh: 


#28565 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 18 January 2020 - 05:20 PM

The problem with the light novels is that it doesn't matter if they are canon or not. I shouldn't have to resort to light novels to get developement that should have been in the original source material.

I shouldnt have to chase down kittening books to see things that should have been in the manga and developing things that way alienates a good portion of the audience simply because they dont have access to them.

Even the person who wrote Sakura Retsudan said the novel was not canon because it wasnt written by Kishi.

 

Yeah. But at least in some cases, light novels fill in the narrative for series with better writing. My Hero Academia has a few of them, and they fill in the gaps here and there that the manga and the spin-offs don't, as well as showing things we didn't get to see on the sides. Unfortunately with Naruto, that's not the case, especially as you said that we shouldn't have to chase down the light novels just to get development that should have been in the source material and that it also can alienate a good portion of fans who can't get them and such.

 

Plus the validity of their place in canon can be hesitant due to the fact they only got a vague endorsement from Kishimoto, and have the inconsistencies that Studio Pierrot has introduced, indicating to us that this is their plan to just ruin Naruto for their own personal sake as if they hadn't done enough damage....



#28566 Derock

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Posted 18 January 2020 - 06:33 PM

Even the person who wrote Sakura Retsudan said the novel was not canon because it wasnt written by Kishi.

Thank God, because the only thing I liked about the novels was Sakura created a hospital for the children which was something I expected her to do. Now, the other BS the novels shown such as somehow making Naruto an A*****E towards Tsunade and Kakashi and the supposed SS s***, TRASH!!! :down:


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#28567 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 12:37 AM

Thank God, because the only thing I liked about the novels was Sakura created a hospital for the children which was something I expected her to do. Now, the other BS the novels shown such as somehow making Naruto an A*****E towards Tsunade and Kakashi and the supposed SS s***, TRASH!!! :down:

That children hospital is also never mentioned again (as far as I know) unlike the other light novels that were made into filler arcs (I can't recall, mostly because I don't care, which of the volumes were adapted).



#28568 TheFirstEvil100

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 01:02 AM

That children hospital is also never mentioned again (as far as I know) unlike the other light novels that were made into filler arcs (I can't recall, mostly because I don't care, which of the volumes were adapted).

Not to mention they love retconing things to fit NH and SS, which is sad



#28569 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 02:38 AM

Not to mention they love retconing things to fit NH and SS, which is sad

 

Exactly.



#28570 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 04:29 AM

Thank God, because the only thing I liked about the novels was Sakura created a hospital for the children which was something I expected her to do. Now, the other BS the novels shown such as somehow making Naruto an A*****E towards Tsunade and Kakashi and the supposed SS s***, TRASH!!! :down:

Plus I think that light novel give us a scale of Sakura power since I think in that one she tanked a biju bomb   

Not to mention they love retconing things to fit NH and SS, which is sad

Pretty Naruto is nothing but retcons, oh linkara would have a field day with this series.
Plus by doing that they make the magna worthless and not needed.

#28571 TheFirstEvil100

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 10:25 PM

Tragic loss
Oh I read your sexy justu nights wow it was good and all narusaku very little hinata as it should be.

Yeah, it is no I fear that with him gone, I fear political correctness will find it's way into Lord of the rings, I mean Star Wars, Star Trek, Doctor Who and many more have been lost thanks to that and from what I heard when the Middle Earth shows was set up many wanted a female Gandalf.

 

But many have said that this is something no one will let happen Middle-Earth is loved by many Tolkien loved the world he created, more that Kishi.

 

I mean, I was re-reading one of the books and man Tolkien created his own languages and the maps so much more, what did Kishi do oh the Uchiha, Uchiha, and more Uchiha, yeah I would read Middle-earth stories all my life than Naruto.



#28572 DrK

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 10:37 PM

I mean, I was re-reading one of the books and man Tolkien created his own languages and the maps so much more, what did Kishi do oh the Uchiha, Uchiha, and more Uchiha, yeah I would read Middle-earth stories all my life than Naruto.

And 100% of everything about the Uchiha is explained or illustrated through or by Itachi. Everyone else is either a worse version of Itachi or their life revolves around Itachi (or both...)

 

Extremely deep world building.



#28573 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 11:07 PM

Yeah, it is no I fear that with him gone, I fear political correctness will find it's way into Lord of the rings, I mean Star Wars, Star Trek, Doctor Who and many more have been lost thanks to that and from what I heard when the Middle Earth shows was set up many wanted a female Gandalf.
 
But many have said that this is something no one will let happen Middle-Earth is loved by many Tolkien loved the world he created, more that Kishi.
 
I mean, I was re-reading one of the books and man Tolkien created his own languages and the maps so much more, what did Kishi do oh the Uchiha, Uchiha, and more Uchiha, yeah I would read Middle-earth stories all my life than Naruto.

Agreed Tolkien had better world building and lore more so than kishi who neglected both in favor of the Uchiha.

#28574 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 06:07 AM

And 100% of everything about the Uchiha is explained or illustrated through or by Itachi. Everyone else is either a worse version of Itachi or their life revolves around Itachi (or both...)

 

Extremely deep world building.

That's because everything had to justify Saint Itachi's stupid "good all along" plot or a power up so Sasuke could match Naruto. No time could be spent doing anything else. Well unless the editors wanted him to add hinata to a scene.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 20 January 2020 - 06:09 AM.


#28575 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 06:18 AM

That's because everything had to justify Saint Itachi's stupid "good all along" plot or a power up so Sasuke could match Naruto. No time could be spent doing anything else. Well unless the editors wanted him to add hinata to a scene.

 

Which is why for my fanfic, I want to tweak the idea of Itachi's actions being someone's manipulations in order to bring things to a head, which would be Madara doing it to his descendant as well as seeking revenge of the Uchiha clan's "betrayal" of him decades ago, all while making Itachi not a good guy, but just a pawn in someone else's game, but also knowing others would exploit his actions for their own gain, like Danzo tries to with trying to want to kill Sasuke so Itachi has no leverage on him



#28576 DrK

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 08:07 AM

 

Which is why for my fanfic, I want to tweak the idea of Itachi's actions being someone's manipulations in order to bring things to a head, which would be Madara doing it to his descendant as well as seeking revenge of the Uchiha clan's "betrayal" of him decades ago, all while making Itachi not a good guy, but just a pawn in someone else's game, but also knowing others would exploit his actions for their own gain, like Danzo tries to with trying to want to kill Sasuke so Itachi has no leverage on him

If Kishi's story made any sense with the characterization he (ended up) establishing, Danzo should have simply used Kotoamatsukami on him.

 

"Protect Konoha... And also protect the overpowered Uchiha genetics that lie inside you... But do so ONLY in that order... You little prick."



#28577 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 08:26 AM

If Kishi's story made any sense with the characterization he (ended up) establishing, Danzo should have simply used Kotoamatsukami on him.

 

"Protect Konoha... And also protect the overpowered Uchiha genetics that lie inside you... But do so ONLY in that order... You little prick."

 

The way I see it for my fanfic, DrK, I don't see Danzo, even with Orochimaru's modifications to his body to allow him also to have Senju DNA in his hopes to control Kurama, having the full on power to use Kotoamatsukami on Itachi, which is why I thought of Madara doing it, since I've thought of the idea that even if he placed himself into a clone body based on Zetsu's DNA and such, Madara has gained new powers thanks to the various Sharingan he has had to use in place of his original eyes given that their raw power from awakening the Rinnegan was too much for his clone body to handle, which led him to gain abilities like Obito's version of Kamui, along with more powerful Genjutsu.

 

I know I would be tempted to go with Danzo doing it in desperation given his own bigotry for the Uchiha and envy of their powers in his quest to become Hokage by any means necessary, but it also wouldn't make too much sense given how he held his own fighting Sasuke, even with his enhanced powers thanks to Orochimaru.



#28578 Phantom_999

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 12:10 PM

And 100% of everything about the Uchiha is explained or illustrated through or by Itachi. Everyone else is either a worse version of Itachi or their life revolves around Itachi (or both...)
 
Extremely deep world building.

 
I'd actually argue that is more for Sasuke than Itachi. At least not everyone present is kissing Itachi's @$$, am I right? :zaru: Everything Itachi did is to justify why Sasuke is a megalomaniacal little dip wad, but also it must be excused that none of it is his fault, because he must be Naruto's "Yaoi Seme" man-candy in the end!!  :lmao: Really Itachi is a convenient plot device more than anything for the little turd's temper tantrums.  :yes:  I COULD BE wrong, but nothing to memory tells me otherwise

Edited by Phantom_999, 20 January 2020 - 09:40 PM.

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#28579 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 05:30 PM

 

I'd actually argue that is more for Sasuke than Itachi. At least not everyone present is kissing Itachi's @$$, am I right? :zaru: Everything Itachi did is to justify why Sasuke is a megalomaniacal little dip wad, but also it must be justified why he acts that way because he must be Naruto's "Yaoi Seme" man-candy in the end!!  :lmao: Really Itachi is a convenient plot device more than anything for the little turd's temper tantrums.  :yes:  I COULD BE wrong, but nothing to memory tells me otherwise

 

And there's also the fact even as he sees and learns what Itachi did was for his sake and the restoration of the Uchiha clan's honor after Madara's machinations, executed because of his manipulating Obito to aid him even in death, are why Itachi did what he did, it didn't matter. All Sasuke showed was he cared about HIMSELF. Destroying the Leaf? For him, not Itachi. Trying to become Hokage? For him! And killing the Biju to "erase the past"? All for Sasuke, just as his desire to take down Kaguya was all for him, not for anyone else or for some sense of altruism.



#28580 DrK

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 12:37 AM

 

The way I see it for my fanfic, DrK, I don't see Danzo, even with Orochimaru's modifications to his body to allow him also to have Senju DNA in his hopes to control Kurama, having the full on power to use Kotoamatsukami on Itachi, which is why I thought of Madara doing it, since I've thought of the idea that even if he placed himself into a clone body based on Zetsu's DNA and such, Madara has gained new powers thanks to the various Sharingan he has had to use in place of his original eyes given that their raw power from awakening the Rinnegan was too much for his clone body to handle, which led him to gain abilities like Obito's version of Kamui, along with more powerful Genjutsu.

 

I know I would be tempted to go with Danzo doing it in desperation given his own bigotry for the Uchiha and envy of their powers in his quest to become Hokage by any means necessary, but it also wouldn't make too much sense given how he held his own fighting Sasuke, even with his enhanced powers thanks to Orochimaru.

I meant use it on Sasuke... But that's pretty cool too, honestly.







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