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Bail o' Lies

Member Since 06 Apr 2015
Offline Last Active Today, 08:38 PM

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In Topic: Did NaruSaku only have a chance because Sasuke was away?

Today, 07:12 PM

The majority of NaruSaku moments were directly influenced by Sasuke and POAL.

  • The POAL revolved around Sasuke as a central character.
  • Naruto's four-tailed transformation was triggered by Sasuke, causing guilt in Sakura because of the POAL.
  • During their hospital visit, Naruto once again brings up Sasuke, mentioning their shared goal of catching up to him. This inspires Sakura to help Naruto later by feeding him.
  • Naruto mentions POAL as a condition for confessing to Sakura.

  • Finally, Sakura's confession, fueled by Sai's words about the POAL and Sasuke's transformation, was an attempt to free Naruto from the POAL.

In her confession to Naruto, Sakura cites Sasuke's aloofness and unavailability as justifications, contrasting them with Naruto.

 

This paints her confession to Naruto as a consolation prize, offered not out of genuine love, but because of the circumstances surrounding Sasuke and Sai's guilt trip about the POAL. 

 

The only genuine NaruSaku moments without Sasuke's name in the picture are: When Sakura considers giving up on the Chunin Exam to protect Naruto's dream.  In a  similar context to the CPR scene in the war, where Sakura saves Naruto with his Hokage dream in mind.

 

If Sasuke had returned to the village after killing Itachi without discovering the truth about the village and joined the Akatsuki, Sakura might not have had any trouble forgiving him and jumping into his arms  more easily than at the end of the manga. 

 

But let's set aside scenarios where Sasuke reciprocates Sakura's feelings  or accepts her confession at the end of Part 1. Imagine a scenario where Sasuke simply remains on Team 7 throughout Part 2 treating Sakura in the same way as part 1. Essentially, Part 2 without the drama of saving Sasuke or his descent into Darkness.

 

Interestingly, in this scenario, Sai and Yamato were not even introduced to Team 7. They were created only due to Sasuke's absence or to replace him. Karin also doesn't exist.  Sakura is the only girl Sasuke even interacts with.  Would Naruto and Sakura's relationship develop in the same way with Sasuke closer to Sakura in the village during Part 2 and without any POAL, with Sakura feeling no guilt towards Naruto?

There are moments where Naruto and Sakura bond that doesn't involve Sasuke... but you either dismiss or ignore them. So why bother bringing any of them up?

 

As for the moments that do involve Sasuke in some way. A major part of the story is the Bond of Team 7 a goal for the main cast is to bring Sasuke back to restore that bond. So they have to talk about bringing Sasuke back to the village.

 

Any scenario that Sasuke does not feel guilt for how he treated Sakura and needs to atone; he will not end up with her because he isn't romantically interested in her.

 

Yamato was brought in because of his Wood release. Sai was Danzo pushing one of his men onto the team. It is not unreasonable to assume they would be in Team 7 due to the Akatsuki and Naruto's increase use of Kurama's power. Karin meet Sasuke in the chunin exam and fell in love with him due to him saving her from a bear. He doesn't leave the village she might just join the village. As she joined Orochimaru to follow Sasuke.

 

...Wait. i forgot. She can't be in love with Sasuke or he could have feeling for her, because you don't identify with her.

In Topic: Did NaruSaku only have a chance because Sasuke was away?

Today, 04:37 PM

Right. I'm going to address the "SS had a better chance than NS or was stronger than it in part one," argument. NS and SS were the same at the start of part one with an equal likelihood of happening. That is to say none. The two pairings 'mirrored' each other. How Sakura treated Naruto is how Sakura was treated by Sasuke.

 

Chapter 3: Sakura considered Naruto annoying for never leaving her alone so she could flirt with Sasuke. Sasuke thought Sakura was another annoying fangirl that won't leave him alone so he could train, but considered her personally annoying due to her orphan comments.

 

Before The Chunin exam. Sakura lectures Naruto that he shouldn't be trying to get a date with her and instead should train. Sasuke lectures Sakura that she should train instead of trying to get a date with him because she has fallen behind Naruto, the dead last of their class. 

 

Both also have something that prevents their love interest from dating them, The Forehead Compliment and Sasuke's desire for revenge.

 

The difference between the two is that Naruto trains and slowly improves himself in the eyes of Sakura, Sakura does not.

 

So by the end of part one, Sakura see Naruto as a teammate and friend she can put her faith in; while Sasuke see Sakura as just a teammate he is more than willing to abandon any bond he has with her for power.

 

Part Two when Naruto returns to the village it is made very clear he has become quite handsome. To the point Sakura both flirted with and was swooning over him till the sexy jutsu improvements were brought up. Sasuke has stop caring about Sakura so he doesn't care about how beautiful she had become.

 

Afterwards Naruto and Sakura were able to spend time together and bond. The original plan for the story was for Kakashi during the final battle to ask Sakura to think who she really loves. Then she realize that she at some point had fallen in love with Naruto. The truth about Forehead Compliment is more to make it plain Sasuke never had those type of feelings for Sakura.

In Topic: Did NaruSaku only have a chance because Sasuke was away?

Today, 04:00 AM

I was following a pairing thread on Twitter and saw several fans mocking  NaruSaku because their relationship blossomed primarily due to Sasuke's absence.

 

Despite many NaruSaku fans hating Sasuke for being an obstacle to the couple and his return definitively crushing NS's chances.

Ironically, Sasuke was the character who helped NaruSaku the most. Not Sai, Yamato or Minato's comment about Kushina.

 

it was only during his absence that Sakura and Naruto started to grow closer, with the goal of bringing him back. The Promise of a Lifetime (POAL) was made, etc.

Along with his entire transformation into a major antagonist force trying to destroy the village, including trying to kill Sakura, which gave the NaruSaku fandom hope that Sakura would eventually abandon her feelings for him and fall for Naruto.

 

However, this wasn't meant to be. Sasuke returned to help during the war, was redeemed, apologized, and Sakura jumped into his arms, effectively ending NaruSaku.

 

Here's the question:

 

In a scenario where Sasuke stayed in the village and continued to develop his bond with Sakura without events like the Uchiha clan massacre, Orochimaru's cursed seal, Itachi's mind raping , or Tobi's revelation about the village and the Uchiha massacre.

Essentially, Part 2 without the drama of saving Sasuke and his descent into Darkness.

 

Would Sakura have still developed some kind of bond with Naruto, with Sasuke closer to her like in Part 1? Or is NaruSaku entirely dependent on Sasuke's absence and actions to change Sakura's feelings?

 

SasuSaku was a very strong couple in Part 1, while NS was almost nonexistent. It was only in Part 2 that NS started to gain traction in the story and by fandom due to Sasuke's absence and crimes.

Well, here is a question you should have been asking: "Why are they mocking a pairing that lost Ten years ago or never existed for Twenty-Five Years?" The answer is the same reason as, why most people will still talk about the Star Wars Prequels but not the Sequels? The Golden Era of Naruto was when NS was the official pairing is the one people still care about while the nH/SS-Boruto era that has came since is of lower forgettable quality.

 

NS chances were crushed because outside the story people were convincing Kishimoto to switch the Heroine to Hinata because they thought Sakura was too unpopular. Sasuke had very little to do with it beyond putting Sakura somewhere once she lost her original status. Sasuke's original existence, beyond his role as Naruto's rival, was to be a wedge between NS so they didn't get together till the ending. He existed so they would bond without getting together till the end.

 

...Naruto and Sakura were growing closer since the moment they became team members. Do you really believe there was no development between them at all in part one?! 

 

Your Question: If the massacre never happened Sasuke would likely want to marry an Uchiha born girl like his Father did and Brother would.

 

As for any scenarios with Sasuke beyond what I posted above. Sasuke only got together with Sakura because he felt guilty about how he treated her. That only happened after Naruto beat him up. That doesn't happen. No reflection. No getting together with Sakura out of guilt.

 

Naruto and Sakura were always developing a bond. He went from someone she openly hated to a friend she put her faith in by the end of part one. That bond didn't just form the second after Sasuke left.

In Topic: Did NaruSaku only have a chance because Sasuke was away?

Yesterday, 10:33 PM

Right. Let's get to it. Before anything else lets look at how Sasuke and Sakura got together.

 

He had just lost his arm, reflected on what he had been doing, and admitting defeat. When Sakura appears after some pondering he apologizes to her for how he behaved. Then he leaves for his wandering to find atonement and implies to start a relationship with her.

 

Sasuke felt sorry for how he treated Sakura, so he got together with her to make up for it. That doesn't mean he ever fell in love with her.

 

What happened after they got together? Well, he kept on wandering to the point he spent 12 years going out of his way to not see his wife or daughter. After he stopped doing that, while he cares for his daughter, he never mentions his wife Sakura. Seriously, after Kodaichi left she cease to exist in the manga.

 

Now. Lets look at Sasuke's thought and behavior around Sakura.

 

The Bench scene he chewed her out for her rude comment.

 

Before the Chunin exam, he chewed her out for focusing on trying to get a date with him, instead of training as she had fallen behind Naruto as far as he was concern.

 

Him leaving the village, he makes it clear, he doesn't have feeling for her, while he did enjoy the time he spent on team 7, she is not that important to him, and he only cares about revenge and is willing to abandon everything to get it.

 

After leaving the village he doesn't comment often on his feelings towards Sakura. However, both times he meets her he tries to kill her and people around note he has no hesitation in his attempts.

 

693. Kakashi asks why Sasuke mistreats Sakura so much when she loves him. Sasuke makes it clear he doesn't love her, doesn't understand why she loves him, doesn't understand what she see in himself to make her like him, and think she is just delusional.

 

So Sasuke doesn't hide the fact that he doesn't like Sakura and he thinks she should stop chasing after him. He doesn't say it all the time when they are teammates because its rude, but he will say his peace if he feels prompted. Once he leaves the village, he just stops caring about Sakura seeing her as nothing more than a deranged annoyance.

 

So how would if Sasuke didn't leave the village go? Well, they were only on an active team for a short amount of time before Sasuke left. The time between Sasuke leaving and the end of the War arc is about 3-4 years. While that may be three to four years to bond and fall in love...That is also, three to four years for Sasuke to get tired of constantly telling her, "leave me alone, I don't like you, and I don't want to date you." Till he finally snaps and ask her why she even likes him. She tells him about the bench scene. He tells her that it was Naruto.

 

Also Naruto held himself back for all those years due to his promise of a life time. No promise, means he is free to try and win Sakura's love.

 

The difference between Naruto and Sakura in this scenario. Is that Naruto will continue course of training and growing stronger. Sakura will likely languish as while she has the desire to grow stronger, she only got the drive after seeing Naruto injured trying to fulfill his promise to her. That doesn't happen, she likely won't go to Tsunade for training and languish in mediocrity. Which will keep making her look worse in Sasuke's eyes. Making it less likely for him to grow fond of her, but more disgusted with her.

 

So the answer is No. NS was suppose to happened but the pairing changed at the last second. Sasuke always dislike Sakura and didn't want together with her till a mandate order them to get together. Leaving or staying wouldn't have changed anything.

In Topic: The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

24 April 2024 - 08:19 PM

I'm not sure he even realizes that they did this with naruto

You may be right and it is always good to look at all possibilities. However, I lean more towards they do know, as even if he doesn't. SP's and Naruto's reputation in Japan is that it...was The King of International Sales. The most likely reason nH/SS happened was that what they thought the international fanbase wanted, while the domestic wanted NS. Here, he is saying ignore the international and just focus on the domestic fanbase.

 

So what do you think most of the Japanese anime/manga community would take from that?

 

Of course they do, that's why this statement is both ironic and hypocritical.  It's why they keep trying to bait old fans back with NaruSaku subtext in Boruto, or even why they had Naruto insult Hinata in an episode for choosing to fight beside him over protecting their children and even dedicate an episode to illustrate that there's little to no romance in their relationship. However, they're never going to outright admit that they made a poor decision (based on their own bias as well as their misread of the western audience investment in this ship) that drastically affected the series' quality, popularity and profitability.

I guess your are talking about the anime. The manga outside of Salad becoming all but the official love interest of Bolt hasn't do really anything NS like. Sakura has not appeared at all in part two so far.

 

Sunk Cost Fallacy.