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Bail o' Lies

Member Since 06 Apr 2015
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#986142 Boruto: The Never-Ending Prologue Chapter 65

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 18 January 2022 - 10:11 PM

Anyone see the new boruto spoilers?

I don't look for that stuff. I wait till the chapter comes out so I can react to it in full.


Here let me guess: Madoc explains kitten again. Nail and Fem-Bolt fight because Naruto is useless. Something 'shocking' that hopefully makes people want to read this year's cycle... someone looks like they are about to die and it probably a fake-out, again.

#986108 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 11 January 2022 - 07:17 PM

I saw Karin and Shikamaru merchandise on top of the usual Team 7, where's Hinata? /s

Hinata / NH doesn't sell. Only delusional shippers would say otherwise. Remember the flopped merchandise related to The Last?

To be fair to that part of the merchandise. That part is the Akatsuki vs team 7 and team Snake/Hawk. So she isn't in that Grouping while Karin is.


The taisho era stuff yeah that's damning since like their summer fun last year being team 7, 10, and Zabuza and Haku; there is no reason not to have her other then they know she won't sell. Its also damning that neither Nail or Salad are there as well. Since, it  the old main cast and the most important secondary character (in part due to slowly taking over the role of one of the main cast once she wasn't allowed to be involved as much anymore) 5 in total against half the new cast the sequel main character and his former best friend till the rival showed up; they clearly don't think the new rival and the love interest as a profitable as those two/seven.

#986099 The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 10 January 2022 - 06:51 PM

How do we know there is a rise in Sasuke x Hinata support? Keen to know if there's any quantifiable indicators

No data, just something I observed over the years. Before the ending it was never or barely considered. After people started seeing how nH and SS turned out I notice a slow rise in people thinking maybe those two should have gotten together instead. With more and more fan art, fan fiction, and posts supporting the idea.


No one was talking about anything. So, I finally decided to bring it up to see if anyone else notice it as well.


Uh well I suppose they think Sasuke is better off with a submissive yamato nadeshiko anyway since that is what Sakura is being in any case. It doesn’t make sense to me but whatever, since when has a couple’s Development mattered to them? The current situation was made from a lack of in the first place, but “satisfy the crack pairings, they said”. I did mention before I could see Sasuke with a yamato nadeshiko type of woman but it’d have to be one he didn’t burn his bridges with and could develop with after a fresh start, so I was thinking a new character personally.

Honestly, through Boruto we do see how Hinata and Sakura raise their kids.


Sakura as a largely single mother was able to raise a well behaved well adjusted girl that was able to get over her lack of a father in the house pretty quickly. Hinata raised two very spoiled brats that she can't control; now granted Naruto did contribute to that mess.


But to me it says this, Sakura can largely raise any child she has well enough on her own, now granted having someone one else in house would help, but she doesn't need it. Hinata needs someone to help her raise her kids assuming not all the problems stem from Naruto. Switching spouses won't change that.


We know NS would work simply because Sakura wouldn't put up with what Naruto does with Hinata like she does with Sasuke and would crack the whip.


Why would Sasuke care to do better with Hinata? He barely knows who she is and has no real connection with her. He is with Sakura out of obligations, he has no obligations to Hinata if she is not Naruto's wife. He also doesn't care about submissive-to-him Sakura, why would he like submissive-to-everyone Hinata more?


Honestly, the only guy that is good for Hinata is really Neji since they were both raised in a very traditional way, and as clan head of a large clan Neji would need to spend time raising his heirs.


It's pretty accurate what you said, considering Karin is still a better fit for Sasuke since later in the war, he seemed more sincere to her with his apology than he did with his crap one to Sakura.

Karin is probably Sasuke's best choice. Since, if he has a kid he clearly wants it to be raised in the village where Naruto can look out for them. However, Karin has no connection to the village. Therefor has no reason to stay in the village and would just follow Sasuke around. So if Sasuke wants his kids in the village, he has to stay in the village with them.

#986094 The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 09 January 2022 - 08:43 AM

You know, one thing I been noticing for awhile is a rise in SasukeXHinata support since Boruto started. Of course, that is due to them seeing the disaster that is canon nH and going "ok, now clearly Hinata wasn't the right match and Naruto might be better off with Sakura as his wife to crack the whip, but that just means that she really should have ended up with Sasuke, right?" Even though, that has even less justification for them to end up together then the current pairings. Of course, its really them refusing to admit the obvious, Hinata was not important to the story and was neither the main heroine/love interest nor a secondary one.

#986082 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 05 January 2022 - 01:34 AM

Speaking of the last does anyone know how SP reacted to the response of the last from the fandoms?

Guessing they behaved like any company does in a similar situation. Pretended that it was a huge success that everyone loved. Cover up anything that said otherwise. Waited hoping the international fanbase would prove the gamble right. Doubling down on the ending, and the planned Path to Boruto. Cutting cost once it was clear it was going to be a flop.


Derock or Namaenash may have better answer by actually looking things up.


I've seen the conversation and just wanted to add my two cents. NH X SS  are poor sellers because NONE are interesting as couples and that's the sad truth. They look good on paper but together its a mess. I have always said that even before NH became a thing that they would make an extremely boring couple for television. SS is boring because Sakura did a 180 in personality change around Sasuke and became Hinata-like with some spice. Hinata (tries to be Sakura and fails at it). Its like they said, since the planned couples didn't become a thing, we will make the wives act like the other so the couples won't be boring. 


The poor sales, the fans slowly leaving the franchise, the trashy story. Everything is what they deserve and MORE. The amount of kitten they said when Naruto ended about "red herring" and that we "read the manga wrong" is all coming back to them. The day that show gets cancelled will be a JOYOUS one. Also, notice how there even hasn't been rumors about a movie. By this time, Naruto probably had like 3 movies already. Its a damn shame.

Pretty much, they are the perfect couples the 'fans' wanted. But, perfect is very boring especially since in both cases the girls are too submissive to confront their husbands about anything. Also add in conflict by Kishimoto disrupting their perfect marriages.


nH was based on the idea that Hinata was an easy to get/please girl that would never hit Naruto or disparage him in anyway. Of course that what those fans wanted in their dream girl because they found getting a girl too hard, and couldn't handle criticism. Naruto always needed his significant other to be on some level his handler; which is Sakura's job which always meant taking over her role on some level. In fact, Hinata couldn't fulfill that role to such an extent that SP, after Kishi showed this, had to add in the almighty mom bit. Even then she never confronts her husband an lets the problem fester till her children act out.


SS was a shoujo romance with none of the development. Since they barely interact with each other and SP has to work around the whole Sasuke didn't visit for 12 years. They went with Sasuke just can't show his feelings. Which is only cute to a certain extent and needs to be handled well. And still has the problem of Sakura (nor Sasuke for that matter) doesn't fully express themselves to their significant other in this pairing.

#986077 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 03 January 2022 - 03:19 AM

Tells me this could just be a means to keep pushing the false narrative that the ending is good to the fans by making this into a manga.

I'd still go with using this to check if there even is a large enough fanbase, trying to get some cash out of them, and giving some of their artist some work. On the side of the company.


The fans are just trying to convince themselves the ending they wanted must be popular somewhere. They never see any evidence, but it must be.


If it sold very well, the producers will proudly share the facts and advertise it :)

Rakuten and Amazon publishes bestseller ranks by product category every year in Japan or internationally. You can check it out at both of their websites (Japanese ones or by country to which they operate in).

Retsuden novels wasn't in the top 100 at Rakuten or Amazon in 2020 (let's not even think of 2021, lol). Folks can fact check themselves and I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong :) --here's the current rank at Rakuten for your reference: https://books.rakute...html?junle_id=3

If you narrow down the search results enough anything is a top seller on Amazon in that category. Naruto light novels for example. Calling something #1 or top seller makes it more likely someone would buy it. A similar reason that something cost $9.99 instead of $10, to trick you into thinking its cheaper. 


This is why I think Hamefura is setting itself up for backlash. People want it to reflect Western values, when in reality it's a Japanese franchise made for the Japanese. It's kinda like how Fortune Lover is supposed to be this big hit in the series, whereas the Western fandom rakes it over the coals and compares it to other otome isekai that deconstruct that exact same scenario. I think that there are things about Japanese or Asian culture that would make it easier for them to digest (like I recall this one Korean otome isekai that talked about how if a guy cheats on his girlfriend, it's her fault because she drove him into the arms of another. Thankfully, Beware of the Villainess calls the everloving kitten out of it). but people would really do well to chill out and try to understand these things rather than claiming the Japanese need to be properly educated or some crap.

Which is why Japanese are getting sick of the West/SJW demanding things of their entertainment and why you have things like Ken Akamatsu running for office to try to protect the Japanese manga/anime from bending to the West/SJW.


Also, this isn't new to Japan. They have known that there are people in the West that get offended by whatever they produce. The first time I can recall was Dead or Alive Beach Volleyball 2 where the producers said they weren't going to release it internationally since they figured it would be review bomb since Video Games Are Sexist was becoming a thing.


Backlash against Japanese media not appealing to some group in the West has also increasingly become a thing in recent years especially again with streaming reviving interest. Sometimes they try to fix things but increasingly they are just throwing up their hands and ignoring it since the complainers don't effect sales. (Goblin Slayer, Shield Hero, and Redo healer come to mind)


So what will happen to Hamefura is one of two thing. The girl will likely end up with her Fiancé the prince either when the backlash hits they will try to apologies while pointing out that it was always the intended pairing or they ignore it.

#986055 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 31 December 2021 - 04:06 AM

I could almost give Naruto some slack. Love it or hate it, it was a major force in bringing anime and manga to the mainstream in the West. I mean, Gundam SEED was a massive success in Japan only for it to horribly flop in the US (in part because they censored it in order to market it to kids there like they did in Japan). Even One Piece, Shonen Jumps biggest hit, had nowhere near the same appeal in the West (likely because of censorship as well). Naruto managed to be popular, not only selling but helping sell other properties for SJ.


Note I said almost. Like, early on it was understandable. Anime was just taking off in the West like never before, manga was being published unflipped, and Japanese companies had no idea how to approach it. But Naruto ran for 15 years, times change and even the notoriously traditional Japanese companies should have seen this. The fact they were trying to get back to some faded glory days, glory days where the market they were chasing was mostly pirating it, just shows how little they actually knew about the situation.


I don't waste tears for the stupid, have better things to do with my time.


(and I swear, hearing Gundam fans say "IBO was made to appeal to the US" or wanting the upcoming Witch from Mercury to appeal to their sensibilities just says how little they understand the industry. But at least it's not the ticking timebomb that they've turned Hamefura into. I mean, they're releasing the yuri-bait anthology book when the series is going more and more hetro to the point where they're teasing Mary and Alan hooking up? Yeah, that's not going to be pretty.)

From what I've seen, Japan has always had problems understanding the Western market. When they try to make something appeal to the West they try to make it as "American" as they can, when something does succeeded whether it was intended to or not they don't really understand how it was successful, once something is successful they expect it to be constantly successful, milking it with constant sequels, if one of those sequel doesn't meet their expectation they cancel it forever, and often they would hand over IP to their Western branches expecting that they will know what to do with it; often those flop.


Not that the West is better. When they want to appeal to the Asia (China) they just get a Asian-American and go "look we got an Asian, they must know what other Asians like, right, as all Asian are liked by other Asians, since they all look alike they must all think alike too," or just do sequel of what was successful over there.


Naruto was successful while Bleach and One Piece weren't is simple. Naruto was on Toonami (a prime time program,) while Bleach was on Adult Swim (late night program,) and One Piece was on 4Kids (a children's program that did censor it but also ended/was cancelled while One Piece was running.) Naruto was also on Toonami after all the nineties era Shounen anime stop airing and had no real competition; allowing it to become the biggest show on the prime time program for years.


Also helped that part one showed off Naruto's strengths (likable relatable cast, good initial premises, great arc stories, great battles, and little filler at the beginning) and very little of its weaknesses (bloated underutilized cast, an overarching story that was shallow as it was hollow, fights slowly became generic shounen fights, the initial premises was dropped to focus on a chasing after the rival, and it became infamous for endless filler) allowing it to become the biggest anime from 2003-2014 in the West. Nothing was able to compete with it or compare to it in the West (Dragon Ball was largely inactive during this time) while it was running. It wasn't till after it was over that streaming finally took off and other anime were able to replace it before Boruto got started.


I mean, people raised a huge stink over Shield Hero and for what? That the MC is falsely accused of rape by a woman? Then they go to the director of the anime and ask him about it, only for him to say that it wasn't controversial in Japan at all?


Or even Hamefura. People make a big deal out of how Katarina's harem is mixed gender, with articles being written about how she should end up with a girlfriend in order to send a message. I mean, I ship her with Maria as much as the next guy, but considering how s2 downplays her female friends in favor of the male suitors and the fact the series isn't marketed as being yuri (and Katarina says multiple times she is straight) I think it's clear that her hooking up with Maria, Mary or Sophia isn't going to happen. Hell, I think a major reason why they haven't announced an English release of the upcoming game is because they know it would create a stink, with the female suitors not having routes and instead adding two new male suitors. They know people would complain about it, so we don't appear to be getting it as a result (I mean, even though I'm a guy I'm curious about how it plays out, what details about Fortune Lover will be released, how it's Alan and Nicol's best shot of winning...and I kinda want to hook Katarina up with the eye-patched pirate because I like his design).

Shield Hero was railed against because it went against the #metoo-#believeallwoman narrative, and anime was taking off because Western media was going into the crap.


Hamefura wasn't baiting people. If it doesn't say its yaoi or yuri then it is normally a straight relationship. The light novel is about the fantasy of a woman being beloved by all due to her quirkiness.

#985991 Boruto: The Never-Ending Prologue Chapter 65

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 25 December 2021 - 07:53 AM

Damn, that sounds boring.

Oh it is. Worse is I think this is the third or so year that has had the same cycle of resolving last years fight at the start of the year before spring, build up to this year's fight for most of it, and finally fight in the winter. So, its not just the chapter are dull its that they are on a very predictable cycle.


Honestly, if I was in charge of this, I would order that this fight be Naruto's death fight simply to break this cycle and move the story along. But since Hime and Punk are now here, I don't see that happening for another two years of this dull cycle, at the very least.


Thanks for summary, those are as amusing as always.

Thank you for the continuing comments. Oh I forgot to reply to this last time, but the information of that Mook being based of Kodaichi was from the reddit comments sections of last chapter. Each one was asking why was this mook constantly appearing, and in each one it was answered the same.

#985968 The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 24 December 2021 - 01:47 AM

The problem is for SP, Neji had to die because his story was to become clan head and end the cage bird seal system. In order, to do that he needed to be adopted by his uncle, and the marry one of Hiashi's daughters to cement it. Story-wise only Hinata worked to make it satisfying since we don't have a connection to Hanabi. Which means she can't get with Naruto. With him dead, the Hyuuga plot dies with him -because that plot is HIS story- freeing Hinata to be with Naruto and removing the awkward part of the story where Hinata is a slave owner.

#985940 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 21 December 2021 - 02:05 AM

But therein lies the problem. Naruto didn't change a corrupt system instead going for the if it ain't broke don't fix it mentality.


Forgiveness aside, he just outright forgot the atrocities others have committed towards not only him and his home but other places which paradoxically caused the problem in the first place only WHEN IT CONVIENCESES HIM. i.e. Orochimaru's experiments are condoned by him personally now, Obito "was the coolest guy" just because they shared a dream of being Hokage, and don't get me started on him bending his back over to let his yaoi boy toy Sasuke off the hook even though it wasn't him that technically did that.


And where do you see anyone in Boruto STRIVING to be better going forward? Naruto and Sasuke are doing nothing to better anything in the ninja system even though they are or were the ones complaining the most on how much suffering it caused others and in Sasuke's case himself especially. In short Naruto portrayed none of the messages listed, and Boruto is not doing that now. The story overall just feels soulless and completely dead. So obviously no one shows any real emotional investment in it

And I believe, I always say, he was suppose to do that but it was dropped for Hinata. Not helped that it wasn't much a focus before that. Too much focus on chasing after Sasuke and when Kishimoto tried to add some of it in he still tied to the chasing after Sasuke. The cycle of hatred. And even then it wasn't really explored or analyzed. But no matter what people think Naruto was never overthrowing/destroying the ninja system.


Still not sure why Orochimaru was kept alive other then someone dislikes the death penalty. Sasuke was never going to be punished for anything because Kishimoto refused to go into that part of the story. As for Obito since I reread his TNJ to him awhile back. He largely understood why Obito did it because at the time he still loved Sakura and Obito was Naruto if Sasuke killed Sakura, but he still felt that Obito had to return to the village and face any punishment because even he knows deep down what he did was wrong. And Naruto knows this because they are a lot alike.


Well, from what I understand, every child of the next generation are instant geniuses that instantly gain or learned all their parents secret techniques without any effort. That must make them better...in someone's mind. They can't show Naruto accomplished anything other then in the vaguest sense because what Naruto would do once becoming hokage was never really focused on. Not that they cared when it was needed to be focused on. Hell, if they focused on Salad even a bit she would be a great way to see what Naruto accomplish other then general peace. But again, they aren't even focusing on what Boruto wants to be but instead that Neo-SNS conflict and Kaguya's clan.

#985937 The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 21 December 2021 - 01:24 AM

Also, i'm not sure if this is the right place, but has anyone made the casual connection to how most male NH fans started that way simply because they want to kitten Hinata, and have some serious sexist tendencies when they discuss Sakura?  

That's pretty much our second most frequent topic. Other then why did it happen.


My stance they like her because she is easy. What effort did Naruto have to do to get her eternal devotion? Nothing, she was introduce, as far as most people are concern, as that. She is a super hot, super rich woman that is absolutly devoted to you, never question you, always does want you want, always appreciate anything you do for her even if its nothing at all and so on.

#985928 Boruto: The Never-Ending Prologue Chapter 65

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 20 December 2021 - 05:59 PM

Well, Endwalker was enjoyable. Imagine a story from a popular franchise that infamously started off on the wrong foot but was able to correct course to such an extent that they have become the biggest in their genre and they have to stop selling because they can't handle the influx of customers. Now then, lets talk about a series that never need to worry about that happening to it.


Summary Time: Karma Power...well stabbing their fans in the back years ago has repeatedly shown the power of karma in real life.


The cover page is Naruto in sage mode dramatically striding forward with his cloak blowing in the wind. Of course its ruin by it being that tiny half cape and the high collar blowing in front of his mouth. 


Bolt dealing with his karma trying to take control of him again...almost like he shouldn't have used it and probably should have just made some clones to get back up. Femmy appears to mock Bolt for thinking some random stopgap pill would halt karma enough to use it in battle. I can't tell if only bolt see this or if they other three brats can see it as well...and he just realized that the day they fought is likely when he implanted karma in him...when else did he have time to do it!?! Randomly at some Hyuuga get together like a picnic we don't know about?! I don't care about it reestablishing it, this just eats up pages. Femmy shows off how strong his rasengan is compared to Bolt's.


Now with Madoc, the clone...oh that's Sai I think or is it some random mook? They establish they know Bolt is fighting Punk. Well the close ups of the clone help show off the fat in her cheeks, and her squarish jaw. Well that was a waste.


Hime tells Punk to retreat. He grabs Nail. Femmy comes up with a new Rasengan...the Rasendan, the spiraling bullet. And, like you think, its like a Freeza death beam or Yusuke sprit gun, its shoot out from his fingers. Well, its better then that stupid invisible rasengan at least. Nail gives Femmy lip so to be a kitten he tries to break his remaining arm, but Naruto comes in just in time. While checking over him Nail yells at Naruto for coming...and now Shikamaru is held hostage. God, what is with people constantly getting stuck in holds with little to no resistance....Screw it, chaos happens until Femmy is about to kill Naruto with a big rasengan. Nail steps in to absorb it...and somehow got Karma again.


You know what its the end of the year let us see how little has happened. Lets see, oh thought that happen last year, the year started off with Sasuke losing an eye always a good start admittedly, in February it went onto Kurama's death so Naruto lost his power ups, but by March it just building up Code/Punk for the rest of the year. 6 months of build up for another boring fight that ate up the rest of the year. No wonder they didn't have any announcement for Jumpfesta there is nothing to talk about.


Here, let me predict the next year. January through March will be the wrap up for this fight. Then 6 months of build up for another boring fight for the remaining three. So, they can wrap it up the year after in a never ending cycle, unless they finally do the time skip.

#985914 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 19 December 2021 - 03:11 AM

Naruto would be among them, full stop. I mean, I think about stuff like the Zabuza fight and how that was the high level the characters would work towards, but with how DBZ later fights got. We have messages and characters being assassinated or flanderized. Things got convoluted as all hell due to the series explaining some mysteries with stuff that came out of nowhere. The idea that the ninja system needs to be continued and Naruto's role in it. The story extended past where it should have ended so people could continue profiting off of it. The fact that Naruto failed to change the world like he was supposed to, as the series became soulless.


Naruto should have been allowed to die with dignity, instead they have to keep it on life-support to protect themselves. I'd say it was a damn shame if Kishi had ever really put himself into the writing instead of bowing to editors.

I sadly must disagree. Naruto was never about ending the ninja system, but rejecting the corrupt parts like being considered a weapon or the clan seal and reforming it.


The problem with modern sequel is they don't continue the story but repeat it poorly.


Let's use star wars. The prequels the Jedi used to be warrior monks of peace & justice but at some point tied themselves to the ruling government to the point they just became some government agency as well as constrained themselves to the point they didn't find their chosen one till he was too old to train by their standards, and then poorly trained as well as constrained him till he turned evil. Original trilogy Obi-wan and Yoda spent two decades thinking on why the Jedi failed and then taught Luke the basic so he would rebuild the Jedi into what they were suppose to be. Then in the sequel Luke failed so Rey would be able to replace him as the restorer of the Jedi, but they didn't go into any detail about this (in either why Luke failed -I'm ignoring the kylo nonsense- or how Rey was suppose to be better or what she was suppose to fix) and the character only seems interested in possibly doing this is because she has to. Which is why nothing has been made pass the ninth movie so far and they keep going back further and further in Star wars timeline.


Now Naruto. Minato was a proto-Naruto someone that did some reform and realized their were problems in the ninja system but didn't live long enough to change anything. So, his son had to take up the role, but that was dropped because they thought some side character would give them more money. Now we're in Boruto, where at best he wants to take over Sasuke's role of the Hokage's enforcer in the shadow to maintain the ninja system, but the story moves at such as snails pace this hasn't been touch upon and he more or less just a Naruto clone from a nH fanfic especially in the anime.


Edit: Most Japaneses' manga/anime/video games from what I've seen are more about reforming a corrupt system, making amends, forgiving but not forgetting past crimes, and striving to do better moving forward instead of violent overthrows and revolutions. That's more a Western obsession in stories.

#985854 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 11 December 2021 - 05:41 PM

So the market isn't democratic, and that's fine, they try to hold on a really minority, data say so. Why is happening in every platform. Netflix's Cowboy Bebop got axed, Boruto is making really bad, at least the Manga. Why companies just don't realize how much they are losing.

Because, they believe that they already have the current customers "locked in" and want more. The executives are kept being told that going "Woke" will give them the younger audience they want and give them a good reputation. So, even when they are making bad choices like CB live adaptation. They still think they looked good approving of it. 


Or they are trying to retcon it out because more and more people are realizing how it just makes the characters look bad.

I am of strong belief that they started production on Naruto the Last 2 years before the ending and in the process told Kishimoto "We are doing this...your job is to tie it into the manga." Of course, Kishimoto is bad at writing romance so he "tries" to push NH, but it feels so forced and awkward while the NS scenes felt natural.

This is why I believe he had very little hand in The Last cause of how inconsistent it is. Nothing flows into it. 

I don't know what was going on behind the scenes, but it seems to many people had their in hand in the pie.

Look at the last and tell me they cared about anyone but Hinata looking bad.


Again, I think they were originally just angling it to make nH canon in the anime. But then, they quickly got the executives to support them, because the execs wanted one ending, and they said that nH was what the international audience wanted.


What I meant by finalized is that they made it clear to Kishimoto that he wasn't even allowed to have NS happen in the manga and that both nH and SS had to happen.


The only thing that "flows" into the Last was the sudden adding in of the Six Path Sage's brother that was the hyuuga ancestor who looked very much like Neji. Which went into as you say it was Kishi's job to tie the last's story to the manga.


That's why I always say companies or executives because, there are at least three that had their hand in this: Shueisha, TVTokyo, and BandaiNamco. We can't really know who did what other then guessing, but I suspect the ones in Shueisha had the final say in going through with it; that's about it.

#985848 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Bail o' Lies on 11 December 2021 - 09:26 AM

There's a term for that. It's called "Franchise Killer".

Ironically, Naruto has always been in top 3 until 2013. We are talking about one of the best-selling manga franchise in the history (250million in its 15 years run).

They were a frequent top 2 or 3 in the list for the longest time. They clearly loosing sales after volume 64 came out (the one with NH handholding cover). This was the first time ever, if I recall correctly, they lost 20% sales year-on-year and keep declining until today. I would imagine that at that point, The Last movie was already in production (it takes about 2 years to make animated movie).

After NH handholding scene, the scene where Naruto mentioned Sakura is her girlfriend in front of Minato (and in front of Hinata) was drawn and also the CPR scene (the only kissing scene between opposing gender in the manga) were created to cast doubt, so the fandom financing the series (NS) won't go away.

Now we all know which fandom was actually financing the series and make it afloat in top 3 for the longest time.

Remove NS and it only takes 5 years for Naruto franchise, who used to be in top 3 AND one of the best-selling manga all time, to be completely out of top 50. Wow!

Never in the history of manga industry this happened to an active franchise. Let alone the 4th best-selling manga franchise all time (https://en.m.wikiped...t-selling_manga)

That's NH/SS for you. The smallest dog barks the loudest indeed. I believe no one in the production team would have ever imagined this when they went with NH/SS route. This makes NH/SS the franchise killer for Naruto.

To be honest, I think the reason for the discrepancies between the manga and the movie was The Last was not originally suppose to be canon.


SP Naruto anime staff had always loudly proclaimed that they were huge Hinata fans. Since, it was their last movie they wanted it to be about Hinata, and since it didn't matter as the story was seen as filler they wanted her to get with Naruto; maybe angle it so they can make them end up together in the anime. Kishimoto didn't care because he didn't consider a filler movie canon.


However, Naruto was ending, and the companies wanted to keep making money from it. Which meant they wanted a sequel if Naruto was ending. Also, companies want one product that will get them the most bang for their buck. So they wanted to make sure Naruto ended in a way that would give them the most amount of profits. So either the editors or SP brought up Hinata's popularity with the international fans, the very demographic they wanted. So, they went with it and came up with the Path to Boruto plan -a year long plan to build up to a sequel that they assume will give them the money they wanted-; helped along by the fact that there was already a Hinata movie in development. Of course another movie was then put into development to hype up the sequel as well.


I say it was decided around the time of Naruto and Sasuke near-death experience, and was finalized right before Kaguya was defeated. 


I swear that someone once mentioned that it was clear the marketing team realized how bad of an idea it was, which is why they made the Last trailers seem to hint that it was a NS movie.


nH/SS crippled the series. Boruto was the deathblow, due to it being unable to impress and retain its customers.