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Did Kishi really mess up or was it planned?


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#1 lord287

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 03:30 PM

I know I shouldn't be still thinking about the stupid ending, but whenever I see the name Naruto anywhere(facebook, manga sites etc), I just couldn't stop but think about the stupid ending.

 

I think since we all know for sure now, that the last movie will be NH and SS, I think kishi must have known this for at least 1.5 years that he was going to end up his manga with NH/SS, and still he kept on giving us NS scenes. I don't know what was his mind thinking exactly, that if he already knew he was going to end with NH/SS, he should have stopped giving pro-NS(girlfriend comment, obito's thought about Sakura always wanting to help Naruto, CPR moment etc) and started giving anti-NS(the only anti-NS was 693, others were all pro-NS).

 

I think kishi intentionally wanted to hurt NS, otherwise their is no reason for him to do something like this(or he intentionally wanted to do this and is so greedy that no amount of money is enough for him in comparison of justified ending to his manga)

 

I kittening hate him more and more by each passing day, dammit. Somebody tell me ways to forget that I ever even read this stupid manga, whose main character ended up being a huge ass looser.


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#2 Zodd

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 03:44 PM

Why shouldn't you be thinking about a stupid ending of your favorite series?

 

It's only been two days at most.  

 

No, I do not think Kishimoto wanted to intentionally hurt NarutoxSakura or the fandom.  Fandom is an abstract concept to many writers, they really do not learn about it until they log onto a computer!  And Kishimoto does not even know how to use a computer! The big man said it himself too. 

 

NaruSaku moments...that was his love child, with the amount of parallels and foreshadowing he did? No way he was spitting on it.  However the panels with Sasuke insulting Sakura, making her feel bad, and with Naruto ignoring Hinata up until the end.  Oh, no mere coincidence.  We literally got zoomed in of Sakura feeling bad after Sasuke insults her, and Naruto's reaction.  Haha.

 

The ending seemed not ideally planned. Just as he planned to end it around Pain Arc, but was denied. Just as he was denied delaying Sasuke's return.. just as he..the list goes on. Again, as I stated before, it is entirely plausible this is the ending he was forced to do.  SJ are not angels, they really kitten with people's stories.  That's also a fact.  

 

Please do not hate this man, dislike him yes, but do not hate him.

 

There is no ways to forget this. It happened.  Embrace it for it's badness, and in time it will bother you no more.  Deny that it bothers you and eventually it will drive you mad.


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#3 Luna

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 03:45 PM

Why shouldn't you be thinking about a stupid ending of your favorite series?
 
It's only been two days at most.  
 
No, I do not think Kishimoto wanted to intentionally hurt NarutoxSakura or the fandom.  Fandom is an abstract concept to many writers, they really do not learn about it until they log onto a computer!  And Kishimoto does not even know how to use a computer! The big man said it himself too. 
 
NaruSaku moments...that was his love child, with the amount of parallels and foreshadowing he did? No way he was spitting on it.  However the panels with Sasuke insulting Sakura, making her feel bad, and with Naruto ignoring Hinata up until the end.  Oh, no mere coincidence.  We literally got zoomed in of Sakura feeling bad after Sasuke insults her, and Naruto's reaction.  Haha.
 
The ending seemed not ideally planned. Just as he planned to end it around Pain Arc, but was denied. Just as he was denied delaying Sasuke's return.. just as he..the list goes on. Again, as I stated before, it is entirely plausible this is the ending he was forced to do.  SJ are not angels, they really kitten with people's stories.  That's also a fact.  
 
Please do not hate this man, dislike him yes, but do not hate him.
 
There is no ways to forget this. It happened.  Embrace it for it's badness, and in time it will bother you no more.  Deny that it bothers you and eventually it will drive you mad.


@bolded Do people really still believe this? LOL


 


#4 rocci

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 03:49 PM

He planned to mess it up.
Jk. Anything is possible, and I don't want to waste my time and energy to think about it.

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I will hate this guy until Sunday lol.

#5 Zodd

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 03:49 PM

@bolded Do people really still believe this? LOL

 

He said it himself.  Do you have an interview where he said separately?  Do you believe he logs on these forums and reads our posts and thought, "time to sink this ship?"

 

C'mon now. Naruto popping open his mac, and Kishimoto says he relates to Naruto, sees himself in Naruto?  At that moment it became official that the series is not in Kishimoto's hands any more to me. 


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#6 Luna

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 03:52 PM

He said it himself.  Do you have an interview where he said separately?  Do you believe he logs on these forums and reads our posts and thought, "time to sink this ship?"
 
C'mon now. Naruto popping open his mac, and Kishimoto says he relates to Naruto, sees himself in Naruto?  At that moment it became official that the series is not in Kishimoto's hands any more to me.


Nah I don't he checks on ships or that sort but him not using a PC is not believable. Plus, he said a lot of things only to change his mind later

Edited by Luna, 08 November 2014 - 03:54 PM.


 


#7 Zodd

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 03:58 PM

Nah I don't he checks on ships or that sort but him not using a PC is not believable. Plus, he said a lot of things only to change his mind later

 

If an author, writer, or whatever, states that they cannot use a PC, that is not something I would think they were lying about.  Him saying a lot of things about the story and it not coming to fruition often happens a lot with stories and writers.  There are other circumstances why things went down the way they did. 

 

But him lying about not being able to use a laptop.  Or changing his mind later and suddenly he can use a laptop?  If you said perhaps later he learned to use a laptop, I would be inclined to be okay with that.  But c'mon.  The man writes the story badly and now every thing he says is a lie?

 

He planned to mess it up.
Jk. Anything is possible, and I don't want to waste my time and energy to think about it.

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I will hate this guy until Sunday lol.

 

Sniffle.


Edited by Zodd, 08 November 2014 - 03:58 PM.

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#8 8Hogake

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 03:58 PM

More like NaruHIna and SasuSaku gangs kidnaped his family members. 



#9 Pix

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 04:03 PM

Well let's compare the interviews to the actual ending shall we? 

 

-He said that he had the ending planned out. 

-He then said later on he didn't know how to get rid of Madara (which means he changed his ending later on) 

-He said that Naruto would have a son named Shinachiku who now doesn't exist 

-He said that Sakura was being "honest" in her confession to Naruto 

-He also said that there would only be one pairing from the main three. 

 

So overall, yeah he messed up. He didn't go along with his original plans, and from reading chapters 1-698, I think it's quite obvious that he had another ending planned. I wouldn't be surprised at this point if Obito was never planned to be Tobi to begin with. Because apparently, fan theories can sometimes win.  

 

And now we start to really wonder why the quality of the series declined.


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#10 Catwho

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 04:27 PM

A lot of authors deliberately stay away from fandom discussions about their works.  Terry Pratchett said he avoided reading any fanfiction or hanging out on fan forums to avoid any potential law suits.  So did JK Rowling.  Wasn't it Mercedes Lackey who got sued by one of her own fans because a novel came out with a similar plot to a fanfiction?

 

So it could be that Kishi has the ability to use a computer (duh, modern interfaces are dummy proof) but he doesn't go onto the Internet on purpose to avoid any possible corruption.  He probably has an assistant checking his email and fan letters and stuff.  Also, mangaka are on a pretty grueling schedule, and their free time is limited.  Why waste that time reading fan theories about his work when he could be reading other people's original things?


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#11 lord287

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 05:22 PM

Why shouldn't you be thinking about a stupid ending of your favorite series?

 

It's only been two days at most.  

 

No, I do not think Kishimoto wanted to intentionally hurt NarutoxSakura or the fandom.  Fandom is an abstract concept to many writers, they really do not learn about it until they log onto a computer!  And Kishimoto does not even know how to use a computer! The big man said it himself too. 

 

NaruSaku moments...that was his love child, with the amount of parallels and foreshadowing he did? No way he was spitting on it.  However the panels with Sasuke insulting Sakura, making her feel bad, and with Naruto ignoring Hinata up until the end.  Oh, no mere coincidence.  We literally got zoomed in of Sakura feeling bad after Sasuke insults her, and Naruto's reaction.  Haha.

 

The ending seemed not ideally planned. Just as he planned to end it around Pain Arc, but was denied. Just as he was denied delaying Sasuke's return.. just as he..the list goes on. Again, as I stated before, it is entirely plausible this is the ending he was forced to do.  SJ are not angels, they really kitten with people's stories.  That's also a fact.  

 

Please do not hate this man, dislike him yes, but do not hate him.

 

There is no ways to forget this. It happened.  Embrace it for it's badness, and in time it will bother you no more.  Deny that it bothers you and eventually it will drive you mad.

But it couldn't be like he didn't know that he is not going to make NS canon for last 1 year atleast.

 

The Last Movie must have taken atleast an years work, and he continued to give us NS hints.

 

I mean why couldn't he just stop when he knew he was just going to throw all the development, so why keep on giving development.

 

He should have just stopped long ago and stopped from Sasuke keeping on saying Sakura is useless. If he would have made Sasuke do that earlier maybe in the end it would have been atleast 1% believable, but no suddenly in 699 he cares for Sakura.

 

Why don't make Naruto be with Hinata for some more time after the hand holding part. Hell unlike SS he didn't even interact with her in 699 or 700. Maybe the people who will see the movie will get to see the development, but still it will always be unbelievable to me that SS/NH happened over an open ending/NS.


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#12 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 05:26 PM

I honestly think Kishimoto-sensei just messed up BIG TIME on this, guys. He had a chance to give Naruto the best ending he could, and he basically screwed the pooch on it sadly...!!!  :mad: I can only imagine too how everyone in Japan must feel about such a cop-out of an ending as well as how FORCED it was.  :bash:



#13 Iwantbuns

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 06:33 PM

Well let's compare the interviews to the actual ending shall we? 

 

-He said that he had the ending planned out. 

-He then said later on he didn't know how to get rid of Madara (which means he changed his ending later on) 

-He said that Naruto would have a son named Shinachiku who now doesn't exist 

-He said that Sakura was being "honest" in her confession to Naruto 

-He also said that there would only be one pairing from the main three. 

 

So overall, yeah he messed up. He didn't go along with his original plans, and from reading chapters 1-698, I think it's quite obvious that he had another ending planned. I wouldn't be surprised at this point if Obito was never planned to be Tobi to begin with. Because apparently, fan theories can sometimes win.  

 

And now we start to really wonder why the quality of the series declined.

 

This makes a lot of sense. Kishi definitely messed up, and gave the fans what they wanted (the most vocal fans NH and SS -_-) It's really a shame. And I agree with this post, because Kishi has been consistently being contradicting near the end of this series. I honestly am not surprised anymore, but I won't stop being disappointed. I'm wondering Kishi himself is happy with what he's done with his manga. I doubt it. He probably just left it on the note he did, so he wouldn't have to deal with it anymore.


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Why do people NOT ship these two? I just don't get it.

Probably cause they hate Sakura. When she's probably the most developed female character in the whole show.

I respect Hinata, but Sakura deserves some too.


#14 Jinja14

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 06:57 PM

Well let's compare the interviews to the actual ending shall we? 
 
-He said that he had the ending planned out. 
-He then said later on he didn't know how to get rid of Madara (which means he changed his ending later on) 
-He said that Naruto would have a son named Shinachiku who now doesn't exist 
-He said that Sakura was being "honest" in her confession to Naruto 
-He also said that there would only be one pairing from the main three. 
 
So overall, yeah he messed up. He didn't go along with his original plans, and from reading chapters 1-698, I think it's quite obvious that he had another ending planned. I wouldn't be surprised at this point if Obito was never planned to be Tobi to begin with. Because apparently, fan theories can sometimes win.  
 
And now we start to really wonder why the quality of the series declined.

Well once you think about it, he was actually pretty honest when he said "there would only be one pairing from the main three". SasuSaku did happen...

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#15 Enkai

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 06:59 PM

I don't think I'll get over this ending. Every time I think of Naruto or get reminded of it, I will end up remembering this pathetic ending. Such a shame really, this great manga series ending in such a rubbish way. I like to think he changed last minute for whatever reason, but considering The Last Movie will be all about NaruHina and I heard it has been in development for like 2 years. I assume that the end pairings, well at least NaruHina was decided around that time too. Meaning that RTN was literally what he wished he could in the manga? Still a kitten way to end this great long running manga.

 

I and I'm guessing the rest of you on here would have no problem if NH and SS had actual development to back up it's justification, however NH has very little and SasuSaku probably even less. I don't think you can even find a panel in the entire manga that explains why Sakura likes/loves Sasuke. The complete destruction of her character in 699 and I guess you can kind of say 693, frustrates me even more than NH becoming canon.

 

I just don't see why he didn't focus on NH and SS throughout the entire manga, instead we had all this amazing NS development which was tossed aside in the last 2 chapters.

 

Also a movie will not be able to replace 15 years of NS development, which makes it even more stupid that this ending happened.  I really hope Kishimoto comes out and explains the reasoning behind this ending and not just ignore it. I really want to know why he did all this stupid kitten and ruined 15 years of his work.


Edited by Enkai, 08 November 2014 - 07:05 PM.

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#16 Lady_duckish

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 07:39 PM

When people are stuck asking questions like this, you have to know you flubbed up  :twitch:

 

I'm not bitter in the least (tht might be a small very small lie, dont call me out). I know how I take a ship loss, usually because i know its 70-100% coming, because the writer uses literary devices like character development, foreshadowing and yes, even parallels to get his or her point across. He did all of that for NS, set the story up so that the main characters plight was similar to those who came before him and failed, all the while knowing for years he wasnt going to make good on that. 

 

The fact that Naruto's crowing moment will probably be in this movie is bs. After what he knew had to be a disappointing end for a quite a few people, he shouldn't make it so they have to pay to see Naruto achieve something they rightfully assumed would have been in the manga, regardless of pairings. 

 

He did mess up. Even if he planned this and never changed his mind, he messed up. 


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#17 Saku-chan

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 09:02 PM

I think it's a bit of both. I do think that Kishi wanted Sakura to reciprocate, but a post on Tumblr made me think that in the very beginning, he was considering the other pairings. Kakashi asked all of them what their goals were and thought that all of their answers were stupid. Naruto was at the time fairly immature and a terrible ninja according to his Academy days. Sasuke is purposely closing himself off in order to steep in feelings of hatred. Wow, what a great goal. Kakashi sees the issues with this. He narrows his eyes when he thinks 'like I thought.' Sakura glances at Sasuke and implies that she is interested in him. Kakashi remarks to himself that girls are more interested in love than ninjutsu. 

 

There are problems with what all three of them have said. Naruto needs to shape up before he's ever considered, Sasuke's goal is going nowhere pleasant, and Sakura only has eyes for Sasuke. If Sakura had development like Naruto and Sasuke had with their goals, then I would have understood her ending. If she realized that she didn't understand Sasuke instead of just thinking that he's cool and then being able to interact with him and talk with him, then sure. It would have been a good pairing. And having all of them achieve their goals, but not in the way they envisioned them would have been a really cool thing to pull off.

 

Sakura was on the verge of being able to understand Sasuke at the end of Part 1, but he knocked her out and peaced out for a few years. Years that she spent training to help NARUTO because she realized how much Sasuke meant to NARUTO as well and that what she asked him to do for her was selfish because she made a mistake and only thought about her own feelings. Then we got a TON of development with NS because they are friends, they are on the same team, and they are both trying to go after Sasuke. 

 

This is where NS pulls away in my mind. If Naruto had backed off on Sakura for whatever reason or interacted with Hinata before randomly getting thrown on a team with her for a couple chapters and Chapter 615, then NH would have been great. But it makes no sense with this ending.

 

At the end of Part 1, I think NS and SS had a somewhat equal chance. NH was laughable because Hinata had only ever given him ointment which he promptly offered to Sakura. (I felt so bad for her. You idiot Naruto. Read the atmosphere! lol)

 

After looking through what we know about Harry Potter after the fact, JK said that HarryxGinny/RonxHermione was her original plan, but admitted that the story did point a lot towards HarryxHermione. I didn't really ship HarryxHermione and I actually quite liked HermionexRon (I actually like them all as platonic friends tbh), but I was terribly confused when Harry got with Ginny all of the sudden after seeing her as first as Ron's shy little sister for a few years and then dating a few of his friends randomly. I'm not saying that this is bad, but I didn't think that Harry thought of her that way. If they'd had more interaction or worked together on things, then I wouldn't have scratched my head. 

 

So before the beginning of Naruto, Kishi had a rough framework of where the story was going. Maybe he did hash out NH and SS, but when it came to what was needed for the story, NS ended up getting more screen time and therefore more development. I still think that NS was intended because of Chapter 3 (and the entire rest of the manga until chapter 698), but maybe he also had the others in mind as options and in his mind, there is infinitely more info on this world and off screen interactions. Who knows what kind of external forces also acted on the direction of the story?

 

Sakura was not a popular character from the get go because she was pretty much a bitchy teacher’s pet who was mean to our sympathetic main character. Naruto is a trouble maker brat, but from chapter 1, we got backstory on why. It took a long time before we ever got anything like that for Sakura (Chuunin Exam is the first time I think we see her introspect in a meaningful way) and I think her popularity has always suffered because of that.

 

I will say that I really do like relationships that start off as friends first. I don't really care for relationships where someone claims to be head over heels for someone that they don't have a close relationship with. How can someone love that person? (a.k.a. why I didn't originally ship NS before Sasuke told Sakura off about how he always does thing for her and looking back how he DOES understand some of her deeper feelings.) 

 

This sort of slow build isn't popular with everyone because you have to be patient and wait for feelings to grow. When characters declare from the start who they like, it's much more succinct and you can start shipping right away.

 

tl;dr

 

Maybe SS and NH were considered alongside NS as possible in the beginning, but the pacing of Part 2 put NS way ahead and makes this SS/NH ending very bizarre. 


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#18 Pix

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 08:33 AM

Well once you think about it, he was actually pretty honest when he said "there would only be one pairing from the main three". SasuSaku did happen...

Yeah but I think he meant "pairings" in general. I'm not sure. But when you think about it, he's not even writing his own part 3, so I think that infers that not only is he tired of his own work, but he didn't plan on having a "everybody has kids" sort of ending either.  

 

I actually like those type of endings, but I also like it when they have some type of back-up to them. 


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#19 Dragunov

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 09:36 AM

You don't mess up something as big as this. Maybe he didn't really like that he had to pull that ending out of his ass, but he seemed to be content doing it in pretty much every part of the war arc. So no. Don't get your hopes up. He's not JK Rowling, so if you're expecting a change of mind, I doubt he'll make it public.



#20 James S Cassidy

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 10:07 AM

Here is the fridge horror of it all

No matter what was the intention, Kishi screwed up. Kishi said he was bad at writing romance, but this was REALLY bad. Like inexcusable bad. No matter how you look at it, it is bad for Kishi. If he says SS and NH were always the intention, then every single development, Databook, etc is all one complete lie and Kishi is a bad writer overall and needs to go back and take lessons. He needs to learn from Stephen King. M.Night Shyamalan is a better writer albeit a bit cliche. If this wasn't his intention and he changed it at the last second, then basically, he ended it in a rush all for the sake of the studio making money. We know his editors have influenced his decision making before so why not here?

Another problem I see is is how could you not notice something was wrong while writing it? "I wanted to make Sakura the heroine." Well, if that was his intention, why not make her be the one to save the day? Yeah, we got the CPR and such, but you also gave Hinata scenes which throws things off. Hinata should have had no part in it if Sakura was supposed to be everything. That shot him in the foot was to try to please the Hinata fan by giving her more to do because an editor told him to.

Remember, Kishimoto's original intention was that Sasuke didn't exist and Hinata was only a villager girl who admired Naruto. So original intention in the beginning? I highly doubt that.

 


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