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Obama striving for better Cuba-USA relations


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#21 Dark

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 02:12 AM

QUOTE (Derock @ Apr 21 2009, 10:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
*avoids the Cuban cigar convo*

But this is a huge improvement and thank God that this over 30-year-old ignorance is set and done (and it has to be, the Cold War was done and over, yet after that, years later, we still didn't work things out with Fidel Castro and Cuba, up til now.)



seems like we were slightly stuck in the past, eh?

XD

#22 Valor Grim

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 02:20 AM

Just remember that it isn't worked out just yet. yes, we did take a big step forward, but actually accomplishing something might take a bit longer. We are talking about politics you know.

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 02:28 AM

Awesome. Things are not going to change overnight, but hopefully steps in the right direction will be taken. While the Cuban government is not well known for talking to us, it certainly helps when having a president who's well-liked around the world.

I also hope that within a few years the embargo (which they call a complete blockade) on Cuba will be lifted altogether; it's really quite useless and has done nothing but make the civilians suffer from what I had observed during my brief trip over there (to be fair though, Dark-chan would know better, so do feel free to correct me).

I'd ask some of my classmates from High School if they still had cigars left over, but that was years ago, so I'm afraid I can't help NR. Sorry.

#24 Valor Grim

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 02:31 AM

Yeah. And I think that if they lifted the embargo, it could help our economy a bit too. Just a thought.

#25 Dark

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 02:35 AM

QUOTE (Valor Grim @ Apr 21 2009, 10:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just remember that it isn't worked out just yet. yes, we did take a big step forward, but actually accomplishing something might take a bit longer. We are talking about politics you know.


Thats the thing though. I know it's not worked out. Honestly, most of it probably won't go through. BUT. IT'S PROGRESS. On our part, AND theirs. Which hasn't happened in God knows how long. So, maybe it hasn't worked out, but politics doesn't have to mean it has to take years and years. Obama has been in offfice for a couple of months, and he's almost completely eliminated most of the bans that Bush set.

and yeah, Kodachi. The embargo has clearly not worked, and I'm glad finally we have a president who realizes it. In our defense though, I want to see what the Castro brothers are going to tell the public about America now. If the embargo is lifted there really can't be a 'Ellos quieren que se mueran de hambre!*" signs going around the whole country like there is now.

Honestly, I'm happy because I can see my family, but it still bothers me that those two can benefit from all this; and we all know the money they make will most certainly NOT go to the villages. It's Cuba. Nothing ever does.

Oh well, there's a good and bad side towards everything. Maybe when they finally die lose power we'll see a couple of 'changes' of our own down there? ;]

(anyone know if Obama has relatives?)

*translation: They want you to die of hunger! (Yes, there are signs like that, and don't even ask about the Bush ones.)

#26 Valor Grim

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 02:45 AM

You are right. It is a step forward. Thank goodness. I am just a bit skeptical because I don't really trust our government.

#27 Codus N

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 05:07 AM

yeah, I believe IT IS time to step forward but what do you guys think about democracy thriving there? (Castro brothers would HATE that)

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#28 Mik3

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 07:35 PM

Democracy dpesn't happen overnight. Its going to take time just like with anything else. But like Dark said, its progress.

QUOTE (Dark @ Apr 21 2009, 09:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I just came back from visiting last week, and I already have plans to go in May or June again. XD I think I went too damn long without seeing my brother and grandparents that I'm adddiiccteeeeeeddddd. XDDD
!


Traiga detras un Sandwich Cubano por favor
\

#29 Sakura Blossoms

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 08:46 PM

And Fidel Castro comes along, and tosses cold water on all of the goodwill going around -.-

Honestly just *how* is this man still alive, to continue causing drama and trouble >.>

#30 Codus N

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 10:27 AM

QUOTE (Sakura Blossoms @ Apr 23 2009, 03:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And Fidel Castro comes along, and tosses cold water on all of the goodwill going around -.-

Honestly just *how* is this man still alive, to continue causing drama and trouble >.>

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking too, these old geezers are always stuck in the past refusing to move on....

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#31 Nate River

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 03:29 PM

QUOTE (Newkerz @ Apr 23 2009, 05:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking too, these old geezers are always stuck in the past refusing to move on....


Stuck in the past?

Castro's pissed off because of Obama's comments regarding political prisoners. Cuba and the Castro' are rather well know for it's consistent oppression of its citizens and jailing of political opponents. To say he's a geezer who is stuck in the past, is to entirely miss who Fidel Castro is. Castro's response is entirely expected, nobody should be the least bit surprised.

As Dark pointed out, one thing to note is that it is very common for aid sent to contries like this to end up in the hands of the head of state and, thus, be used less to help it's people and to help fund the person who put the nation's people where they are.

Castro's a classic communist dictator and Cuba's been run like most other modern communist countries. People don't flee that country on life rafts just for the heck of it.

QUOTE
I also hope that within a few years the embargo (which they call a complete blockade) on Cuba will be lifted altogether; it's really quite useless and has done nothing but make the civilians suffer from what I had observed during my brief trip over there (to be fair though, Dark-chan would know better, so do feel free to correct me).


Of course, lifting it may not do much for them either. Who do you think will be the primary benefiary of trade? My guess is that it's not going to be the Cuban people and that much of what is made will be confiscated by the government. Moreover, I think dropping it without any genuine concessions on human rights is a bad idea. Why should Castro be rewarded for abusing his people?

For example, the U.N. Oil for Food program in Iraq was designed to help feed the citizens who were suffering under existing sanctions. That's not what happened. Saddam never got them the food and used program to try and bribe the French and Russians into dropping sanctions on the country.

And based on this argument, it's tough to argue for sanctions against any country. How would this argument be any different when talking about North Korea, Iran, Syria, Saddam's Iraq, Burma, Zimbabwe, and so on? Wouldn't the people always suffer more under sanctions? I don't see Kim Jong Il, the Mullahs, and Mugabe behaving any different than Castro when faced with such an embargo.

#32 Codus N

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 07:04 AM

QUOTE
Castro's response is entirely expected, nobody should be the least bit surprised.


I know that, Nate... what I'm trying to say is that he's being TOO suspicious of any sign of goodwill from the U.S it's true that Castro is just like the rest of the dictators of the rest of the world but if he wants to put on a good face in front of his people & the world he's gonna have to start acting nicey-nice (like it or not) & besides if he wants attention, do it in a positive way, not a confrontative one.

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