12 replies to this topic

[Laylo]

Hi again. Due to a recent fancomic posted in the theory thread, I really got to thinking about something.

 

Okay I won't lie. Many, many years ago when I first started reading Naruto, I couldn't stand NaruSaku because I hated how Sakura would hit Naruto and yell at him over trivial things. I understood it was for comedy, but Naruto was the character I was sympathetic to the most and so I couldn't stand seeing Sakura treat him that way.

 

But you know, now I love the couple and seeing Sakura mature greatly has of course made me extremely fond of her character.

 

So where am I going with this? I've read great NaruSaku fanfic and seen great fanart, but to this day I feel some go a little bit overboard with Sakura's anger issues regarding Naruto. I'm so sorry but it was the one thing I could not STAND in the beginning.

 

I won't use any specific examples (other than the recent comic and I'm sorry to use it because it is nicely drawn but it did bother me how at THAT point in time (Sakura has the byakugo) Sakura reacts to Naruto's simple question with anger.) but I have noticed that in a good chunk of fanfics, Sakura acts exactly how she does when she was 12.

 

Naruto asks a simple question or makes a simple statement. Cue Sakura scolding him, punching him, and/or calling him an idiot. The extreme anger Sakura reacts with reminds me of how Studio Perriot depicts her in any filler that has the story take place before Shippuden.

 

Now I always figured that love-taps and scolding would always be apart of their relationship dynamic and I know it can be appealing/done right. But the ease that Sakura just sees red and goes raging bull on Naruto for the SMALLEST of things actually makes me fear for Naruto O_O (I mean I feel that he needs to watch what he says and walk on glass around her which is not a good feeling haha).

 

I always figured that Sakura would mature enough not to immediately assume the worst when Naruto asks a question (unless she's teasing him and just wants to see him panic for a bit). I pictured playful banter and play-punches (unless he embarrassed her in public when he REALLY should've known better), not fury and cowering. It does not make the relationship abusive I know but I cringe so much when I see reminders of why I refused to give the pairing a chance in the first place.

 

The reason I'm posting this in the general Naruto thread instead of the fanfic section is because I feel that maybe I'm interpreting Sakura's and Naruto's character wrong.

 

I've read tons of discussion on here regarding Sakura's character and I'm not really sure how it fits into why Sakura is usually portrayed this way? I mean I know she has a temper but I figured she would not assume the worst of anything Naruto says and would keep the violence to a necessary basis. I figure there is a different way to keep their dynamic without having Naruto cower in fear for asking why Sakura changed her hairstyle(again sorry to bring it up but as you can tell it bothered me. I actually debated on whether or not to post this but then I'd go back to thread and see that comic...).

 

And in regards to maturity, I don't think Sasuke was the only one she was immature with. The fact that she got so angry with Naruto in the beginning appeared, to me, to be signs that she didn't understand him. So when it is stated that in chapter 699, Sakura reverted back to her 12-year-old self, I agree. But I also wonder if she would treat Naruto poorly again (if he wasn't already a boring, sad sack clearly too "mature"/living too much an empty life to even want to rile her up anymore).

 

Plus it was the one thing I found really hard to argue against when I read NH opinion. Don't get me wrong I still despise it with a passion. But when people brought up the 'Sakura hits Naruto', saying "it's just comedy" didn't cut it for me because I ALSO did not find it funny. Reading and understanding that Sakura eventually cut it out was a bit easier to swallow.

 

So I mean am I overthinking it?

 

Maybe it's a part of the whole 'scary wife' thing Kishimoto hinted at in the beginning. But is it possible for Naruto to just respect Sakura without being terrified of her (of course he's afraid of her wrath but I imagine by dating/married life his reaction would be more nervous than afraid).

 

Or maybe Naruto enjoys it? Is there any instance where he riles her up on purpose? I mean to be fair he didn't understand Sakura that well in the beginning, but I wonder if there are moments where he shows that he knows her well enough to tease her. I have not seen any hints that he would enjoy Sakura scaring him but I am open-minded so if you believe he does enjoy it please say so.

 

Is it plausible that as Sakura and Naruto mature, they would actually keep the exact same dynamic that they had in the beginning of part 2?

 

Or maybe this is just a completely inarguable subjective thing haha. Maybe it's just me and fanwork but I've seen it enough to be uncomfortable with it. I would like to hear others' thoughts on the subject though.

[Torxe]

tbh I don't have the same issues with how her character is displayed in most fanfics I read/follow.

But since you didn't name any examples I wouldn't know. I mostly stick to a select few authors and seldomly go searching for fanfics on my own (I mostly follow the recommondation thread here ^^).

 

Off topic:

I just read the "scary wife thing" and thought "now it all makes sense". NaruHina was meant to happen, a woman skulking behind trees is way more scary then Sakura. 

[Tendo Ryuken]

the case was quite the opposite for me. the first time i joined this site i even tought it was kind of 'fist of love' lol. maybe my opinion was biased because i loved ranmaxakane so much and akane tend to hit ranma a lot.

on topic: girl hits boy potrayed alot on japanese mangas and the fans generally get used to it. maybe the writer of the fic you read just love that kind of scene more than ppls in general

[Lid]

I think you're vastly over thinking this. The fanworks and even scenes from the anime where Sakura is either scolding Naruto or hitting him is classic tsundere stuff.

 

It's been done before in multiple other anime, including Love Hina, Yu Yu Hakusho, Inuyasha and even some times in Full Metal Alchemist and Shaman King. 

 

The fact is, almost all of these scenarios where the girl hits the boy or scolds them is a complete over exaggeration done for the sake of comedy and never really have an ounce of maliciousness behind it.

 

It's pretty much the equivalent of a male making a dumb or juvenile comment and a female rolling their eyes in real life. But since anime is such a visual medium, that needs to be exaggerated to put emphasis on the comedy of the situation.

 

I know you said that the "It's comedy" thing doesn't work for you, but that's what it really comes down to. Look at Naruto after a punch from Sakura and the gigantic bumps on his head from it, it's obviously done for a humorous effect. It's also a complete contrast from say his fight with Sasuke or Pain where hits he takes legitimately are shown to hurt him. There is an obvious difference.

[Hanabi]

i understand your discomfort, it is simply put as 'abuse' by those who don't like naruto and sakura together.

 

but look at minakushi, jiraitsu, even the newly canon saiino. it is very common in japan stories to have these kind of tsundere couples. naruto is intended for the japanese audience after all.

[Laylo]

tbh I don't have the same issues with how her character is displayed in most fanfics I read/follow.

But since you didn't name any examples I wouldn't know. I mostly stick to a select few authors and seldomly go searching for fanfics on my own (I mostly follow the recommondation thread here ^^).

 

Off topic:

I just read the "scary wife thing" and thought "now it all makes sense". NaruHina was meant to happen, a woman skulking behind trees is way more scary then Sakura. 

 

I didn't want to name anything specific because it felt wrong to talk about an author's fanwork when the author isn't here to defend. But I did mention the comic that was posted in the Last Theory thread if you want an idea of what I'm talking about.

 

Off topic:

I actually want to find a Hinata thread (or make on) to share my thoughts because I have a lot of new ones about her. She's about as terrifying as a paper towel wet with chlorine.

 

 

the case was quite the opposite for me. the first time i joined this site i even tought it was kind of 'fist of love' lol. maybe my opinion was biased because i loved ranmaxakane so much and akane tend to hit ranma a lot.

on topic: girl hits boy potrayed alot on japanese mangas and the fans generally get used to it. maybe the writer of the fic you read just love that kind of scene more than ppls in general

 

 

 

I think you're vastly over thinking this. The fanworks and even scenes from the anime where Sakura is either scolding Naruto or hitting him is classic tsundere stuff.

 

It's been done before in multiple other anime, including Love Hina, Yu Yu Hakusho, Inuyasha and even some times in Full Metal Alchemist and Shaman King. 

 

The fact is, almost all of these scenarios where the girl hits the boy or scolds them is a complete over exaggeration done for the sake of comedy and never really have an ounce of maliciousness behind it.

 

It's pretty much the equivalent of a male making a dumb or juvenile comment and a female rolling their eyes in real life. But since anime is such a visual medium, that needs to be exaggerated to put emphasis on the comedy of the situation.

 

I know you said that the "It's comedy" thing doesn't work for you, but that's what it really comes down to. Look at Naruto after a punch from Sakura and the gigantic bumps on his head from it, it's obviously done for a humorous effect. It's also a complete contrast from say his fight with Sasuke or Pain where hits he takes legitimately are shown to hurt him. There is an obvious difference.

 

You both make good points but I have to point out that the differences between those shows and Naruto.

 

 

Yu Yu Hakusho: Keiko and Yusuke are childhood friends and Keiko honestly wanted what was best for Yusuke which is why she was so hard on him (for skipping school, fighting, etc.) And as I recall, she smacked him whenever he peeked up her skirt which was haha funny.

 

Full Metal: Same thing. THe two are childhood friends and Winry's scolding was usually due to the belief that Ed was careless with his well-being (and breaking her precious metal lol). But even when she yelled at him, the relationship was more balanced I guess in that Ed was never afraid to argue back should he need to (the DRINK MILK arguments come to mind).

 

Love Hina: I personally don't like this one but wasn't it made clear that the main character is pretty much the author himself? In that case I cannot judge him for being masochistic. He probably enjoyed it since he ended up with her in the end. But also I think at some point the main character's sister comes in and gives Naru a smackdown for it anyway and she tones it down a lot by the end.

 

Plus, although Kishimoto has said Naruto was a lot like himself, it's kinda hard to understand how true that is. Or maybe it is 100% true and Naruto is a lot like Kishimoto. Then how does Sakura factor in when she's been compared to Kushina and then compared to his wife (and Oda said that his wife looks a lot like Sakura)...but then he still ends up with Hinata?(Tho I guess this point depends entirely on whether or not you believe Kishimoto was forced into making NaruHina canon).

 

SHamen King: I have not seen so I cannot comment.

 

Inuyasha: Inuyasha was evil at first and a threat to Kagome which warrented the rosary in the first place. Anytime she used it, it was because Inuyasha was typically being threatening (either overly aggressive with someone or trying to block her way to go home). And as in the case with Naruto, I think the anime overexaggeerated her tendency to use it (movie 3 comes to mind where she put a new one back on him for...what reason?) because in the manga, she was in love with the guy and kinda stopped once he matured.

 

Naruto: Sakura did not consider Naruto a friend in the beginning and so her violence did come across as malicious. It wasn't like Naruto was threatening anyone or being perverted (at 12) so her reactions came across, to me and apparently many others, as WAAAAAAAAAAY too much. By Shippuden I felt okay because they were friends and Naruto's actions (perverted or insulting) did call for a comedic punch to the noggin. ANd yes the scene where Sakura punches Naruto for calling her strength monstrous was funny.

 

But I must emphasize that 'comedy' I feel comes from whether or not the dude deserved it. An overreaction to a question is an overreaction to a question. Sakura punching Naruto because he is being perverted is funny. Sakura punching Naruto for unintentionally insulting her is funny. Sakura getting angry at him for asking 'why did you change your hairstyle', or punching him for boasting about his skills, or punching him for startling her, to me, is not funny.

 

So what I'm saying is, in Naruto shippuden it seems Sakura has reached that level of violent comedy. I mean when she scolds or hurts Naruto it is funny because he usually deserves it. But fanworks bring her back to that time when EVERYTHING Naruto said warranted a 'moron' and a punch to the head which I really don't get. I don't really understand why Sakura's temper is exaggerated to those levels in various NaruSaku fanworks. She's hotheaded and fiesty but she doesn't get mad at anyone else the way she does Naruto and I was under the impression that she A) has matured a bit and B)Understands him better than that.

 

 

i understand your discomfort, it is simply put as 'abuse' by those who don't like naruto and sakura together.

 

but look at minakushi, jiraitsu, even the newly canon saiino. it is very common in japan stories to have these kind of tsundere couples. naruto is intended for the japanese audience after all.

 

Thank you. I'm usually very careful about using that word because it not something to take lightly at all. So when NH fans called the canon NaruSaku abusive I usually got reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally mad. In fanworks tho, when they're supposed to be closer than that...yeah it just rubs me the wrong way. It really wouldn't be that big of a deal if I didn't see it so often  .

 

Those are really good examples and I admit I forgot about them. But I guess again, it all boils down to how deserving the violence is. Jiraiya was a pervert, Sai is unintentionally insulting, and Minato...well we have no idea what caused all of those arguments with Kushina but if I had to guess it would either be related to his wellbeing or hers (or both)....or whatever.

 

 

But ultimately, this really might be on me. I was triggered (hah) by the comic and wanted to say something. I'll just continue to avoid the stuff that makes me uncomfortable . Thanks for sharing your opinions everyone!

[Hanabi]

Thank you. I'm usually very careful about using that word because it not something to take lightly at all. So when NH fans called the canon NaruSaku abusive I usually got reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally mad. In fanworks tho, when they're supposed to be closer than that...yeah it just rubs me the wrong way. It really wouldn't be that big of a deal if I didn't see it so often  .

 

Those are really good examples and I admit I forgot about them. But I guess again, it all boils down to how deserving the violence is. Jiraiya was a pervert, Sai is unintentionally insulting, and Minato...well we have no idea what caused all of those arguments with Kushina but if I had to guess it would either be related to his wellbeing or hers (or both)....or whatever.

 

 

But ultimately, this really might be on me. I was triggered (hah) by the comic and wanted to say something. I'll just continue to avoid the stuff that makes me uncomfortable . Thanks for sharing your opinions everyone!

I think Kushina was just born a red bloody habanero xD

 

Can you link me the comic? is it the hyper-realistic-699 styled ns doujin that is going viral in tumblr?

Edited by Hanabi, 19 January 2015 - 08:04 PM.

[CloudMountainJuror]

Many fanfics have a habit of going overboard with Sakura's physical attacks and portraying her as a vicious b*tch because they simply don't understand her character or the point behind said physical attacks in the first place.

Edited by CloudMountainJuror, 19 January 2015 - 08:45 PM.

[Aizen-Sama]

Yeah I admit I don't like when Sakura's always hitting and yelling at Naruto. It's a turn-off and it's not romantic. It should be portrayed in understandable circumstances like Naruto being perverted so Sakura slaps him a bit. She has a temper but having her always lashing out at the smallest things makes her irritating and actually rather weak.
NS artists should emphasize her soft side like when she smiled at sleeping Naruto in the manga and tried to feed him ramen. Also when she blushed at him after the timeskip. Punching scenes should be kept to a minimum and strictly for comedy.

[Laylo]

I think Kushina was just born a red bloody habanero xD
 
Can you link me the comic? is it the hyper-realistic-699 styled ns doujin that is going viral in tumblr?

 
I'm not sure because I saw it in the theory thread but it might be the one. It's pretty close to Kishimoto's style and the only page I saw was Sakura and Naruto walking when Naruto asks Sakura why she changed her hair (and then it gets into a 'beautiful forehead moment'). Sorry I don't have a link :(. But if I ever see it again I'll link it.
 

Many fanfics have a habit of going overboard with Sakura's physical attacks and portraying her as a vicious b*tch because they simply don't understand her character or the point behind said physical attacks in the first place.

 
Yes! Yes! Yes! I understand that in bashing fics made to prop up another Naruto pairing (I hate bashing but I understand it when it does happen). I also understand it in fics where it is used to show Sakura's development (a canon/noncanon example being the Road to Ninja movie. Sakura was unnecessarily harsh and violent in the beginning but by the end she's able to turn Naruto down seriously, but in a jest-kinda way that doesn't involve pulling his ear and hearing say 'ow' over and over with zero sympathy).
 
But I see this happen in NaruSaku fics where Sakura and Naruto already have an established friendship or romantic relationship which confuses the heck out of me! So I agree with you. Here is the manga(when it was good) for comparison:
 
Here is Naruto at his brattiest. Sakura keeps her annoyance in her thoughts but that might be because the Hokage and Sasuke are present.
 

 
Now imagine fics where Naruto is 15-20something years old and he's acting like this JUST so that Sakura can punch him JUST for laughs.
 
In this page, Naruto expresses excitement about going on their first C-rank mission and for leaving the village for the very first time. Instead of understanding his excitement, Sakura tries to knock him down a little by implying that there's nothing to be excited about (by asking what he found so exciting in the first place).
 

 
In this page we have Naruto freaking the hell out because Sakura is angry. Notable in that even though his wounds will heal soon, we still get to see the injuries (This was the 'Karui beat up scene' before the Karui beat up scene. I know Karui's beat up was much more serious but you have to understand that many people including me did not find this funny because it was an accident and Naruto was trying to explain that he didn't want to kiss Sasuke in the first place but Sakura didn't listen. You all probably all know this but this scene left a baaaaaaaaaaaaad impression about Sakura.
 

 
 
It feels like the humor they are trying to go for is this:
 


 
 
But because Sakura is written like this (acting like Naruto is a misbehaving child that needs to be punished because he needs someone to teach him correct/proper ways):
 


 
AND Naruto is written like this (a loud idiot brat with no manners):
 

 
 
What I end up seeing in fics where Naruto can be anywhere from dating/late teens to married adults is...well this:
 
 

 
(this scene is actually quite lol but please note that they are 12 and weak. Can you honestly imagine them acting the exact same way now?)
 
I would like to believe that Naruto and Sakura's relationship has developed beyond that! Now don't get me wrong there are some more funny moments between them (a moment when Sakura shouts 'IF YOU DON'T CALM DOWN I'LL FINISH YOU!' comes to mind). But still do you understand what I am saying?
 
Think of the discussions where it is said that 699 reverts Sakura's character back to her 12-year-old self. That's why I think some in the NaruSaku fandom have a habit of doing that too.
 
In my opinion, the beauty in NaruSaku is how they grow as people together, not the 'idiot boy violent girl' dynamic (that many of you have pointed out is in MANNNNNNY couples). There is something unique about Naruto and Sakura together and I don't think Studio Perriot-filler comedy is necessary to keep it separate from say NaruIno or definitely NaruHina.
 
If Naruto's suppose to become a more mature, wise, and powerful Hokage, but still Naruto Usumaki like Kishimoto probably originally intended, then it makes that Naruto would bring on the pain (so to speak) by PURPOSEFULLY acting out in a way that riles up Sakura or being an idiot but not like the examples I showed above. It's not like being perverted is second nature to him the way it is to Jiraiya. And since he (should've) obviously gained some people skills and more obviously understand Sakura better, then the comedy (for me) comes from Naruto violating common sense when he should've known better (much emphasis on the bold because Naruto often WILL be dumbed down) or purposefully being an idiot because he couldn't pass up a joke.
 
One headcanon I have is NS' oldest son painting Hokgae mountain (for mischief reasons only or to compete with Naruto's own Hokgae painting achievement) and getting caught by his parents. Naruto says he'll handle it, but instead of lecturing their son, he instead gives him pointers and even takes the paint brush and paints a little. And then Sakura gets upset because what kind of idiot Hokage defaces his own mountain (plus he's teaching their son disrespectful habits)?
 
And of course, on Sakura's end she will always have a temper. I accept and embrace that feisty flaw part of her. But she's also a caring and kind individual (especially towards Naruto) and as pointed out numerous times, she's the one who learned who he is the best. I imagine that she has higher levels of tolerance for Naruto's actions and can pick and choose her reactions. And if we remember that Sakura actually does love a good joke every now and then, then maybe Sakura has her own creative ways to teach Naruto a lesson that are not YELL and PUNCH.
 
That's basically what I'm getting at. I feel there is a balance between comedic use of the usual tsundere violence and inserting it for the sake of familiarity and the second part, I feel, is NOT who Naruto and Sakura are anymore. As they mature, so should the violent comedy.
 
Feel free to disagree tho.

Edit: the spoiler tags were making my images disappear so I got rid of them.

Edited by Laylo, 22 January 2015 - 07:18 AM.

[James S Cassidy]

People who think Sakura is abusive have never seen Love Hina. Not saying Love Hina is a bad manga, but rather if you love Kaitaro and Naru...or any of the girls for that matter, then calling Sakura abusive is out of the question.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 31 January 2015 - 08:28 AM.

[Toby]

One headcanon I have is NS' oldest son painting Hokgae mountain (for mischief reasons only or to compete with Naruto's own Hokgae painting achievement) and getting caught by his parents. Naruto says he'll handle it, but instead of lecturing their son, he instead gives him pointers and even takes the paint brush and paints a little. And then Sakura gets upset because what kind of idiot Hokage defaces his own mountain (plus he's teaching their son disrespectful habits)?

 

That would've been great XD

[tricksie]

 
One headcanon I have is NS' oldest son painting Hokgae mountain (for mischief reasons only or to compete with Naruto's own Hokgae painting achievement) and getting caught by his parents. Naruto says he'll handle it, but instead of lecturing their son, he instead gives him pointers and even takes the paint brush and paints a little. And then Sakura gets upset because what kind of idiot Hokage defaces his own mountain (plus he's teaching their son disrespectful habits)?

 

omg why didn't this happen? It would have been perfect and so in keeping with Naruto's character!!