1322 replies to this topic

[Illnevergiveup3]

Wasn't that her justification in The Last? That she wasn't good enough and he only loved her because "rivalry with Sasuke" or some kitten?

not sure. I didn't curse my eyes by watching that garbage ass movie.

[Derock]

It could be because of the events that happened before, her confession to him before the "I hate people who lie to themselves" quote. I'm guessing Sakura pulling up the "fake" smile due to not wanting to go through the same event/pain with Naruto, even though it is her second chance to possibly say that she's now in love with him, only this time, Sasuke is not involved or mentioned in the conversation, indirectly.

 

And its proper development for NaruSaku to be canon, to bring some sort of conflict that now can receive proper resolution to become "official", instead of the BS reason shown on The Last.

[Illnevergiveup3]

It could be because of the events that happened before, her confession to him before the "I hate people who lie to themselves" quote. I'm guessing Sakura pulling up the "fake" smile due to not wanting to go through the same event/pain with Naruto, even though it is her  second chance to possibly say that she's now in love with him, only this time, Sasuke is not involved or mentioned in the conversation, indirectly.
 
And its proper development for NaruSaku to be canon, to bring some sort of conflict that now can receive proper resolution to become "official", instead of the BS reason shown on The Last.

that sounds about right. Now the "I'm sorry" she said and the smile is making much more sense.

Edited by Illnevergiveup3, 10 April 2019 - 12:01 AM.

[TheFirstEvil100]

Someone needs to show this to Kishi and say thats how you do development.

[James S Cassidy]

Wasn't that her justification in The Last? That she wasn't good enough and he only loved her because "rivalry with Sasuke" or some kitten?

I always hated this argument. Especially with girls I wanted to date at the time.

"You deserve better than me." I actually got told this word for word.

What does this even mean? It is such a horrible statement because the person is trying to convince the other person that the person they love is garbage and need someone else. Okay, but that's like a manager saying "You are over-qualified" to make the excuse why you don't the get the job. If I am looking for a job to make money, no opportunity is "over-qualified." People saying this kind of stuff seem like they are trying to be nice, but it just an excuse to not give them the chance or the opportunity.

How would they know if I was too good for them or that I deserved better? Try that with anything else.
Car salesman: "Oh you can't buy this car. You deserve a better car." I may deserve a better car that doesn't mean I can afford a better car.

It's a lie. It is a downright lie to soften the blow of "I don't want to date you. I have no attraction towards you."

You know what I should have said: "Well, then I guess if you feel if you are such a garbage girl, then I guess the person you want to date deserve better than you as well. You are so garbage tier of a woman that you deserve to be alone and maybe even die alone."

Then they get mad at you for saying such a thing and you can be like "Well, you said I don't deserve you implying that you're not good enough for me and if I think of myself so low to date you and I feel I am garbage tier, then you are telling me you are lower than garbage tier. That you are not worth dating and that no one man should fall for you."

I hate when girls and even some guys do this. Just say you don't want to date them. Just say "I am not attracted to you, but I appreciate you see me as that special." Anything else would be better than this "You deserve better" garbage lie.

It is almost like they want you to hate them so you stop bugging them while they go after what they selfishly desire. If that is true, then they are right, you don't deserve a garbage person like to be in a relationship with.

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

The fake smile indeed. Now is the chance for Naruto to man up and confess straight up.

Edited by Konoha'sCrimsonFox, 10 April 2019 - 08:35 PM.

[Gravenimage]

Damn it the author is teasing Naru/Saku I can't take it!

[Bail o' Lies]

Wasn't that her justification in The Last? That she wasn't good enough and he only loved her because "rivalry with Sasuke" or some kitten?

No. It was, "a woman cannot ever stop loving her first crush... EVER!!!" Is why she can't be with Naruto. "The Rivalry with Sasuke," was the excuse that Naruto never really cared about Sakura to begin with. She was simply just a part of his competition with Sasuke.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 22 May 2019 - 02:42 AM.

[Illnevergiveup3]

Naruto needs to be a man and confess.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I always hated this argument. Especially with girls I wanted to date at the time.

"You deserve better than me." I actually got told this word for word.

What does this even mean? It is such a horrible statement because the person is trying to convince the other person that the person they love is garbage and need someone else. Okay, but that's like a manager saying "You are over-qualified" to make the excuse why you don't the get the job. If I am looking for a job to make money, no opportunity is "over-qualified." People saying this kind of stuff seem like they are trying to be nice, but it just an excuse to not give them the chance or the opportunity.

How would they know if I was too good for them or that I deserved better? Try that with anything else.
Car salesman: "Oh you can't buy this car. You deserve a better car." I may deserve a better car that doesn't mean I can afford a better car.

It's a lie. It is a downright lie to soften the blow of "I don't want to date you. I have no attraction towards you."

You know what I should have said: "Well, then I guess if you feel if you are such a garbage girl, then I guess the person you want to date deserve better than you as well. You are so garbage tier of a woman that you deserve to be alone and maybe even die alone."

Then they get mad at you for saying such a thing and you can be like "Well, you said I don't deserve you implying that you're not good enough for me and if I think of myself so low to date you and I feel I am garbage tier, then you are telling me you are lower than garbage tier. That you are not worth dating and that no one man should fall for you."

I hate when girls and even some guys do this. Just say you don't want to date them. Just say "I am not attracted to you, but I appreciate you see me as that special." Anything else would be better than this "You deserve better" garbage lie.

It is almost like they want you to hate them so you stop bugging them while they go after what they selfishly desire. If that is true, then they are right, you don't deserve a garbage person like to be in a relationship with.

 

Trust me, James, I had someone like that, but it wasn't her thinking I "deserved" her, it was because of the fact that she thought she knew me, but she knew jack about me, and made accusations. In Naruto, it can make some sense why Sakura would think she isn't "good enough" for Naruto because of how she "hurt" him, even if she didn't know how Naruto felt at the time of when he made his promise to her, and how she failed to think about HER own feelings about the situation. And the pro-ending fans tend to make that same argument by claiming Hinata "deserves" Naruto because "she loved him first", which is really stupid if you ask me. Hinata doesn't really LOVE Naruto, she only loves the idea of him to put herself up on a pedestal rather than learn from him and try to become better.

[Derock]

 

Trust me, James, I had someone like that, but it wasn't her thinking I "deserved" her, it was because of the fact that she thought she knew me, but she knew jack about me, and made accusations. In Naruto, it can make some sense why Sakura would think she isn't "good enough" for Naruto because of how she "hurt" him, even if she didn't know how Naruto felt at the time of when he made his promise to her, and how she failed to think about HER own feelings about the situation. And the pro-ending fans tend to make that same argument by claiming Hinata "deserves" Naruto because "she loved him first", which is really stupid if you ask me. Hinata doesn't really LOVE Naruto, she only loves the idea of him to put herself up on a pedestal rather than learn from him and try to become better.

 

Not to mention the fact that many pro-ending fans (and pro-NH) assumed Hinata "deserves and love" Naruto, yet didn't do squat to show it directly to him, always followed or hides in the shadows like a stalker. They also ignored the fact that she wasn't high enough to be on Naruto's precious people list. Remember the scene after his fight with Gaara? It was always Iruka and Team 7, in terms of family and saving him from loneliness. They even show it again in Shippuden during the Rescue Gaara Arc, and Hinata was on the "friends" section as the scene increased with Jiraiya and Tsunade added in (although, was Sasuke shown on that scene? Can't recall).

[jak123]

 

Not to mention the fact that many pro-ending fans (and pro-NH) assumed Hinata "deserves and love" Naruto, yet didn't do squat to show it directly to him, always followed or hides in the shadows like a stalker. They also ignored the fact that she wasn't high enough to be on Naruto's precious people list. Remember the scene after his fight with Gaara? It was always Iruka and Team 7, in terms of family and saving him from loneliness. They even show it again in Shippuden during the Rescue Gaara Arc, and Hinata was on the "friends" section as the scene increased with Jiraiya and Tsunade added in (although, was Sasuke shown on that scene? Can't recall).

Remember after the fight with Pain that she confessed her love in? He and Sakura embraced.

[James S Cassidy]

 

Trust me, James, I had someone like that, but it wasn't her thinking I "deserved" her, it was because of the fact that she thought she knew me, but she knew jack about me, and made accusations. In Naruto, it can make some sense why Sakura would think she isn't "good enough" for Naruto because of how she "hurt" him, even if she didn't know how Naruto felt at the time of when he made his promise to her, and how she failed to think about HER own feelings about the situation. And the pro-ending fans tend to make that same argument by claiming Hinata "deserves" Naruto because "she loved him first", which is really stupid if you ask me. Hinata doesn't really LOVE Naruto, she only loves the idea of him to put herself up on a pedestal rather than learn from him and try to become better.

It is still a weird argument.

So she doesn't deserve Naruto because she hurt him, but she deserves Sasuke because he hurt her? What, is that saying she deserves the punishment Sasuke gives her because she feels like a bad person?

The whole concept of people dictating how a person should feel rather than asking them how they feel is such a selfish and stupid thing. How could someone else possibly know how someone else feels? Naruto has made no hints that he likes Hinata, so how would Sakura know at all?

That's strikes me as just really big stupidity and it is insulting in my opinion.

I am reminded of Finn from Adventure Time when he is in love with Princess Bubblegum. "I was in love with you once and you broke my heart. Now when I am ready to move on you want me back"


These people try to get you to understand by trying to brainwashing you into believing something you really don't. Naruto doesn't deserve Sakura, he doesn't deserve Hinata. They are both manipulative in their own way, but Naruto wanted Sakura because he felt amazing with her....something everyone forgets even the characters themselves for their own selfish gain. Sadly, Naruto just went along with it and gave up rather than fight back.

Meanwhile Sasuke is like "whatever shuts you up faster."

Edited by James S Cassidy, 11 April 2019 - 08:10 PM.

[jak123]

It is still a weird argument.

So she doesn't deserve Naruto because she hurt him, but she deserves Sasuke because he hurt her? What, is that saying she deserves the punishment Sasuke gives her because she feels like a bad person?

The whole concept of people dictating how a person should feel rather than asking them how they feel is such a selfish and stupid thing. How could someone else possibly know how someone else feels? Naruto has made no hints that he likes Hinata, so how would Sakura know at all?

That's strikes me as just really big stupidity and it is insulting in my opinion.

I am reminded of Finn from Adventure Time when he is in love with Princess Bubblegum. "I was in love with you once and you broke my heart. Now when I am ready to move on you want me back"


These people try to get you to understand by trying to brainwashing you into believing something you really don't. Naruto doesn't deserve Sakura, he doesn't deserve Hinata. They are both manipulative in their own way, but Naruto wanted Sakura because he felt amazing with her....something everyone forgets even the characters themselves for their own selfish gain. Sadly, Naruto just went along with it and gave up rather than fight back.

Meanwhile Sasuke is like "whatever shuts you up faster."

Ugh, AT's ending felt like Korra to me. Fanservice to the shippers and nothing more.

[James S Cassidy]

Ugh, AT's ending felt like Korra to me. Fanservice to the shippers and nothing more.

Maybe, but this brings up the point that girls really can't understand love at a younger age and when they make excuses it only backfires on them.

Princess Bubblegum is a clear example of this as she is so selfish that she doesn't respect Finn's feelings at all and just uses him. "You are my hero and only mine." No, you don't get to say that after what you have been and still are doing. You can't deny a man his heart only to tell him that he can;t be with anyone else, but you.

This is what is garbage about both Sakura and Naruto throughout the story. She acts like she doesn't deserve him, but she deserves Sasuke? So is SS love or is it some kind of punishment for Sakura's guilt? Is being married to Sasuke akin to a life in prison then? I guess so. I guess that is SS in a nutshell. A life prison sentence with a drug addiction thrown in. Good story, Kishimoto. Great story. *sarcasm*

I see females do this a lot both in real life and in movies. Men, not so much. (They rather use the "you're not good enough for that" argument.) People just can't accept the existence of feelings for another. Not saying they have to be with them in a relationship, but to tell the person "You don't really love me. The feelings you feel are garage and you're lying to yourself." No, that is not for them to decide. It is up to the person themselves if they feel that way.

The arguments are just so bad.
"Naruto always loved Hinata, he just never knew it yet."
"Sasuke loves Sakura...he is just shy and closed off to admit it."

That is brainwashing logic. That's like a person abusing another, but as soon as the abusee decides "I don't want to be in this relationship anymore" the abuser is like "I'm sorry. I really do love you. I can't stand to live without you. I can change. I promise. You don't really want to leave me right?" Naruto is Stockholm syndrome 101 and Naruto is the victim of it all. He is manipulated by Sakura and Hinata to be a certain way only to be told that his feelings don't really matter or he is confused.

Sometimes, I am not sure if people realize what they do. They think this is "letting the person down easy," but it is not. It is just building them up only to knock them down. This devastates people. This can cause emotional trauma and maybe even suicide.

Worse still when Naruto get blamed. "Oh, YOU were the manipulator. YOU caused all of this and YOU need to make it right."

It;s one thing when characters do it, it is another when fans believe it and say "this is what true love is."

Edited by James S Cassidy, 12 April 2019 - 05:42 PM.

[sushi.]

Why are Sakura and Hinata the manipulators? Hinata didn't mean for the genjutsu to guilt Naruto into being with her. Sakura only told him to walk her home, she didn't say if you don't marry her she'll kill herself. You're treating them like witches, but if anything Hinata is being lied to. She believes her husband loves her and he doesn't. Naruto is responsible for himself and he initiated a relationship that puts him down. Boohoo.

 

As for the "you deserve better than me", this is simple self-loathing and not worth an essay. Actually none of this is worth your LAPs as the ending was a retcon nothing more.

[Phantom_999]

No it was, "a woman cannot ever stop loving her first crush... EVER!!!" Is why she can't be with Naruto. "The Rivalry with Sasuke," was the excuse that Naruto never really cared about Sakura.

 

But a man can/must stop loving his!!!

Edited by Phantom_999, 14 April 2019 - 02:36 PM.

[Liu bie]

 

But a man can/.must stop loving his!!!

Jiraiya too 

[Phantom_999]

Exactly thank you

[James S Cassidy]

Why are Sakura and Hinata the manipulators? Hinata didn't mean for the genjutsu to guilt Naruto into being with her. Sakura only told him to walk her home, she didn't say if you don't marry her she'll kill herself. You're treating them like witches, but if anything Hinata is being lied to. She believes her husband loves her and he doesn't. Naruto is responsible for himself and he initiated a relationship that puts him down. Boohoo.

 

As for the "you deserve better than me", this is simple self-loathing and not worth an essay. Actually none of this is worth your LAPs as the ending was a retcon nothing more.

They are all manipulators in some way, shape, or form and they become even worse manipulators when you get their fan logic in there. The movie is a retcon, but it is still canon. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it negates its existence.

Sasuke is a manipulator because he sees people as a means to an end...save for maybe Naruto.
Naruto is one of the biggest manipulators of all time in the grand scheme of things. (Talk-no-jutsu.)
Sakura is a manipulator because she tried to manipulate both Naruto and Sasuke on multiple occasions. From trying to guilt trip Sasuke in part 1 as he was leaving to trying so hard to convince Naruto to change his feelings. People would argue her own confession to Naruto was within itself a manipulation. Especially telling Naruto that his feelings for her was not real and trying to push him towards Hinata.
Hinata is a manipulator because she did everything she could to try to get Naruto's attention from jumping into a battle that almost got herself killed, giving medicine, making a scarf, and constantly thinking about herself over...well, everything else even in the most dire of situations. Neji, according to Kishimoto, is "playing cupid to NH" so he is a manipulator.
Kakashi ends up becoming a manipulator in the end.

Edit Add on: I want to mention that people can be manipulators whether they succeed in what they do or not or even if they realize what they do. Like I mentioned, you may think you're doing it out of care, but really think about it and you realize that what you are doing is trying to convince them they are wrong. "I don't deserve you." What does that even really mean? What do any of us truly deserve? It is a lie to make yourself feel not as guilty for breaking their heart. No matter how soft the blow, your heart still shatters from broken love, but people never realize this until after it is done to them. Worse still when some become vindictive and insulting. Just look at the fandom logic "If Naruto does not love Hinata, he would be a bad man." Like, so a man HAS to love the woman that is obsessed with him? Manipulative. Worse still when the characters themselves use that logic too which they were very close to saying it. You can't tell someone else how they should feel. If you even attempt to, that is manipulation

Varying degrees of many characters, both good and bad, use manipulation in this story to get their way or aiding someone in a goal. Very few, if not one I can think of, ever put forth a common sense idea that maybe...just maybe what the person is going for is not possible or they just can't force something to get their way.

Just because I am picking on Sakura and Hinata at this point does not mean anyone else is any better. Naruto is the biggest offender of manipulation and he is only getting worse as the story keeps going. For a character who says "I connect with people through emotion" he has a hard time truly understanding how people feel and why they feel that way.

Ask yourself, why do people do what they do?
Why did Naruto want to bring Sasuke back? Because Sakura wanted him to? Because he didn't want Sasuke to be evil? Because he wanted to? I don't remember a single time Naruto said "I want to bring Sasuke back to make things right. To help him get the justice he deserves." Thanks to Naruto the Last, the only reason why he cared so much was for popularity apparently.

Why did Hinata do those nice things for Naruto? Because he needed the help? Because she wanted to help him achieve his goals? She never says any of this. She does it because she wanted his attention. Why make the scarf? Was it a reward? Was it a thank you present? Was it because he didn't have a scarf? No. More attention. Even more obvious when she gets envious when other girls swoon over Naruto.

Why did Sakura confess to Naruto? Was because she loved him? No. Thanks to the ending we find out it is all a lie and she only did it because she wanted Sasuke back and for them both not to die. Not as bad as attention seeking, but still according to the story she wanted to manipulate the scene for her own gain.

This is the story they told.

Sakura: "Naruto, you should ask Hinata if you can walk her home."

That's manipulation. It's not "Naruto, do you like Hinata? Are you in love with her?" No, just "you should do this."

The ONLY character who is legit, in my opinion, is Karin. Karin is the only character who has truly said "I just want them to be happy regardless of what I want." She is the only truly caring person throughout the series. While everyone else did selfless things for selfish reasons, Karin is the only one to do selfish things for selfless reasons. Not even Hinata has done that.





 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 15 April 2019 - 07:03 AM.