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Established Rivals with Proper Development


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#1 LuckyChi7

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 01:19 PM

My girlfriend and my cousin Ria were having this discussion about the book I'm currently working on, and during the middle of the conversation   we brought up around the topic of Rivals and how they were established and the consistency  they had developing around one another unlike with how Naruto and Sasuke turned out for obvious reasons. 

 

 

 

The ones  that stuck out to us were these three: 

 

 

 

 tumblr_inline_nsxlrhqCYW1tzp6zw_500.png

 

 

Natsu and Gray from Fairy Tail  

 

Unlike with Naruto and Sasuke I've felt like throughout the series, Natsu and Gray not only being opposite in element type but also being really great friends with one another. Yes I know Fairy Tail friendship speeches, but for Natsu and Gray I feel like that's actually one of the few times I can deal with it honestly, and it shows they'll always be there to support one another in there time of need despite their lil friendly rivalry scuffles of course. 

 

 

 

 

 

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Sora and Riku 

 

I'm not entirely sure what's the best way to describe this one, but just from the playing the game and reading the novel I could tell just going through the Kingdom Hearts story what these guys have as rivals can't be denied that the development's total crap especially with the upcoming Kingdom Hearts 3.  I think NSK and sorrandven do a better explanation on why they are also much better than Naruto and Sasuke could ever be. 

 

 

 

 

 

Alrighty I'll let you guys decide on this last one my cousin Ria, my girlfriend, and I picked but...

 

 

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Yugi/Yami Yugi (Atem) and Kaiba 

 

 

I think for anyone and everyone that has seen the original series, we can all agree that Yugi and Kaiba have an established rivalry since the end of the first episode which sparked a conflict for Kaiba to get himself back on top as the world's greatest duelist.  At the same time unlike Sasuke,  Kaiba had a heart and he knew when to make the right calls like saving his little brother or Yugi's friends. Yes there is that whole aspect with Kaiba and not believing into the Millennium Items, but that's the thing unlike Sasuke who was constantly kept mysterious for stupid reasons now,  at least throughout the progression of the series you can see that slowly but surely he kinda believes it especially near the end of the series. Not to mention the whole prophecy aspect was much better done in Yugioh then with Naruto for obvious reasons.

 

 

What about you guys what Rivals do think were better done than Naruto and Sasuke?  Also explain why too I'm just curious that's all.  

 


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#2 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 01:29 PM

My only gripe of rivalry is the fascination that the protagonist has on his rival. Other than that, it's fine if they're friends or does.

#3 Hanabi

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 04:13 PM

pandora hearts

 

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Edited by Hanabi, 17 March 2016 - 04:24 PM.

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#4 Liu bie

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Posted 18 March 2016 - 01:30 AM

They are destined to betray Athena. Their rivalry to conquer the world or one is part of Athena or the other against, by the end they realize   they are part of the justice and brother or sisters.

 

I am taking about the Gemini Twins from Saint Seiya.

 

tumblr_mutx6mh1Qe1scbon8o1_500.jpg

 

Post: http://athenasama.tu...ost/64320305133


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#5 Nate River

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Posted 19 March 2016 - 12:46 AM

Yugi/Yami Yugi (Atem) and Kaiba 
 
I enjoyed this one. Kaiba wasn't heartless, he did care but it was very specific to Mokuba and Yugi. And for Yugi it was about beating him than liking him. Though Yugi/Yami was the one person he respected.

Saving Yugi's friends and others tended to be ancillary to other interests and I don't think he cared that much about them for most of the series.

I liked that the series made no bones or excuses about him though. He was an kitten and the series didn't, at least to me, hold back on this. He got constantly called out for it. It reminds me a bit of Vegeta in that I don't recall people making excuses for what he does and when he's an ally it's generally with reservation.

#6 harry4e

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 12:14 AM

Zoro and Sanji is a rivalry of sorts, they are constantly fighting to cement their position as the second strongest after Luffy, though it's generally accepted that Zoro is stronger of the two.


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#7 Lid

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 03:34 AM

Yusuke and Hiei from Yu Yu Hakusho were rivals that were well done. One of my favorite things is to see characters grow and change over a series and both characters I mentioned did just that, and it led to their rivalry changing over time, too.

 

Also it's hard to go wrong with Taichi and Yamato from the original Digimon.


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#8 Aizen-Sama

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 06:00 AM

Yami Yugi and Kaiba make the best pair of rivals IMO.  They both wanted to be better than the other, were polar opposites in terms of motivation despite similar drive, but still had mutual respect for eachother.  It wasn't a hate-you-love-you f**ck-fest like so many other anime rivals but a struggle to see the others' viewpoint and finally join forces without actually liking or agreeing with eachother.

These two earn my respect:

 

manganime-yugi-vs-seto.jpg

 

Sasuke and Naruto are the most horrible twisted pair of "rivals" and "brothers" that the anime world has ever seen.


Edited by Aizen-Sama, 20 March 2016 - 06:09 AM.


#9 Namikaze Clan

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 08:43 PM

Goku and vegeta had a good rivalry. Vegeta constantly trying to surpass him and Goku always being one step ahead.

Vegeta admitting that Goku was better in the Buu saga was perfect

#10 LuckyChi7

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Posted 22 March 2016 - 11:15 AM

Ya know speaking of Yugi/ Yami Yugi (Atem) and Kaiba I was just feeling nostalgic and I came across this, man was this better then Sasuke's sacrifice in the land of waves arc or what? 

 

 


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#11 rocci

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Posted 24 March 2016 - 10:19 AM

Rivalry?

Nothing beat the truest form of rivalry between sakuragi and rukawa from slam dunk.

And then there's amuro vs char, the legendary rival & enemy.

#12 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 24 March 2016 - 11:24 AM

Rivalry?

Nothing beat the truest form of rivalry between sakuragi and rukawa from slam dunk.

And then there's amuro vs char, the legendary rival & enemy.

I can vouch this.

#13 Nate River

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Posted 30 March 2016 - 01:01 AM

Yami Yugi and Kaiba make the best pair of rivals IMO.  They both wanted to be better than the other, were polar opposites in terms of motivation despite similar drive, but still had mutual respect for eachother.  It wasn't a hate-you-love-you f**ck-fest like so many other anime rivals but a struggle to see the others' viewpoint and finally join forces without actually liking or agreeing with eachother.

These two earn my respect:

 

manganime-yugi-vs-seto.jpg

 

Sasuke and Naruto are the most horrible twisted pair of "rivals" and "brothers" that the anime world has ever seen.

 

I think them having a twisted rivalry would have been fine had the series been ready to admit how messed up it was and dealt with it honestly. I understand Naruto's inability to let go, I don't understand why it's accepted by other's so easily or the series unproven assumption that it's a good thing.



#14 Lid

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Posted 30 March 2016 - 12:49 PM

I think them having a twisted rivalry would have been fine had the series been ready to admit how messed up it was and dealt with it honestly. I understand Naruto's inability to let go, I don't understand why it's accepted by other's so easily or the series unproven assumption that it's a good thing.

 

That's a really good point. If the show had actually shown Naruto's inability to let go as an obsession, which it clearly got to at one point, then it would have made sense. But everyone just seemed to trust Naruto in wanting to bring Sasuke home, despite the fact that he was a criminal and a traitor.

 

On another note, I can't believe I forgot about Light and L from Death Note. That mental battle going back and forth was fantastic, and while the two had vastly different ideologies, I think there was at least some level of respect for the skill they both had.


Edited by Lid, 30 March 2016 - 12:49 PM.

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#15 Nate River

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Posted 31 March 2016 - 01:15 AM

I think them having a twisted rivalry would have been fine had the series been ready to admit how messed up it was and dealt with it honestly. I understand Naruto's inability to let go, I don't understand why it's accepted by other's so easily or the series unproven assumption that it's a good thing.

 

They did respect each other's skill. I think L thought Light totally immoral and I think says as much early on, but before he dies L tells Light that they could have been friends. There is even the Jesus/Judas parallel of the washing of the feet. And Light, just when he thinks he has Near dead to rights comments that he was inferior to L.

 

As for your other point, Naruto the series has many failings, but in terms of rivalry the primary one is that it wants Sasuke to walk the dark path without and desire to deal with the consequences for that. L and Light would never reconcile in the sense there I think there is a limit to where L would go whereas Light was very ends justify the means. The series never tries to reconcile this because it couldn't.

 

In Sasuke's case, it takes him sparking a near war with Cloud before people start to wonder if letting him run around is an issue. Seriously? A guy with a deadly bloodline voluntarily runs to a murderous sociopath who wants to kill you. You send five genin? Given the ethos of the ninja system and the fact that the Sharingan was so deadly, the expected response is that every ninja who still breaths is sent after him with two priorities (1) capture if you can, if you cannot, kill him. The excuse Kishimoto uses just never washed with me

 

Yet, that's not the objective and only Sasuke's compatriots are sent? This is blatant favoritism on two levels. The norm for regular hunter-nin is to kill. Why not here? And two, people whose nerve to do what's needed is suspect are the ones sent? If I'm random ninja #56879 I wondering, WTF? They wouldn't do that for me. In fact, what a great chance for Naruto to be force to make his case as to why the normal orders shouldn't be followed.

 

This rivalry is so full of problems on this front. When Sasuke resolves to destroy the village why isn't Naruto pushed from saving him to stopping at all costs. Naruto suggests if they fought they die, but it's not the same as resolving to stop him no matter what. Even in the finale, Sasuke never really agrees to Naruto position. They fight, they draw, and Sasuke says, okay let's do it your way. Okay....so Sasuke give no indication he actually abandons his position for another based on the fact its a better path forward. I could keep going...



#16 rikakim94

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 05:23 PM

I may have never read hunter x hunter but i heard good stuff about the series and rival between gon and killua was well written. They weren't the typical rivals that has the hate and love thing going on from what i heard.



#17 BakeNeko-Chan

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 07:26 PM

I may have never read hunter x hunter but i heard good stuff about the series and rival between gon and killua was well written. They weren't the typical rivals that has the hate and love thing going on from what i heard.

 

Actually, Gon and Killua aren't rivals at all. They have a very strong, well-written friendship that puts Naruto and Sasuke's to shame, however. 



#18 rocci

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Posted 25 April 2016 - 02:53 AM

 
Actually, Gon and Killua aren't rivals at all. They have a very strong, well-written friendship that puts Naruto and Sasuke's to shame, however. 

That's because the blue print for their rivalry is slamdunk sakuragi and rukawa.

@nate
Sasuke doesn't become villain while light already become into one.

#19 rikakim94

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 05:12 AM

 

Actually, Gon and Killua aren't rivals at all. They have a very strong, well-written friendship that puts Naruto and Sasuke's to shame, however. 

 

Oh i thought they were rivals but not the typical rival that you see in a lot of series and that sounds more better than having a typical hate love thing going on.

 

tumblr_lucdth3SI91qa7kgeo1_1280.jpg

tumblr_nq0kuwIDNV1uvgkero1_1280.jpg

 

Also the fanart between the two are cute!



#20 LuckyChi7

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Posted 03 June 2016 - 04:37 AM

Some people may disagree when i say this, but after seeing X-Men: Apocalypse in retrospect to First Class that was the beginning of this trilogy and Apocalypse book ends it. In a way you can also connect it back to X-Men, X-2, and X-3... 

 

 

i8Y_cNJOkh0.jpg

 

 

Xavier and Erik 

 

 

We knew there was some kind of bond Charles and Erik had when it came to the first 3 X-men films, but X-Men First Class establishes alot, and it leaves small seeds that not only lead into the original trilogy of X-Men films, but also leads into Days of Future Past and especially Apocalypse as well. Especially when you finally finish this trilogy like the ending of Apocalypse made me show a huge respect for their relationship. 


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