196 replies to this topic

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I honestly don't know why people even feel the need to defend Hinata. The people that are supporting the new generation were fans of her anyway, so why does our opinion matter to them?

 

Fear, plain and simple. They know their win is a pyrrhic victory, so they gotta shoot down all we gotta say, even if it's just opinions because they're afraid.

[Bail o' Lies]

Bryon I think that way they can't just say "haters gonna hate" and then ignore us because they know it's a hollow Pyrrhic victory. Most are trying to deny it to keep a hold on their own center of logic since they refuse to see that they were wrong.

 

Let's look at the core what the nH and ss fans normal and radical wanted Naruto to end judging by discussion and fan fictions they had or made before the ending:

 

Naruto beats Sasuke and drags him back to the village.

Sakura thanks Naruto (maybe) then for some reason Sasuke falls in love with her (because of her devotion?) and they start dating then marry

With Sakura out of the picture their no one to get in hinata's way, and Naruto fall in love with hinata (because he realizes the she is the one that has always be there for him and she deserve him)

then naruto become hokage and everyone lives happily ever after

 

It may vary from person to person but that's ultimately what they wanted the ending to be.

 

Here what we the NS fans wanted:

 

Naruto defeats Sasuke and drag him back to the village

Sakura thanks Naruto for fulling his promise but has fallen in love with Naruto over the course of the series and out of love with Sasuke. So Naruto and Sakura get married

Naruto becomes hokage and everyone live happily ever after.

 

The reasons they don't like this varies from: well Sasuke and Hinata don't have any one, the don't want Sakura to be happy and hinata to not get what she wanted, they thought that the girls deserved the guys they wanted, or it was a sexual fantasy for them and they wouldn't let logic disturb it.

 

Now let look at the ending:

 

Naruto defeated Sasuke    ...more or less, and he came back to the village...,but then quickly left to do the redemption quest thing as soon as possible.

 

Sasuke show he may have feeling for Sakura    ...but everything after that forehead poke show that Sasuke barely interacted with her for over the next 15 years, and seem to go out of his way to ignore her and avoid her, and when had the gaiden basically just tears apart their relationship and didn't even bother to put any effort into the fix up

 

Naruto returns hinata feeling and they get a movie   ...a movie where she barely does anything and everyone else basically has to force Naruto to  love her in order for them to end up together and it even required a genjutsu for him to even realize her felling for him, which he didn't return until a kitten speech by Sakura.

 

Naruto became hokage  ...a failure of a hokage that is also and awful father...also everyone looks utterly miserable with their lives or just pathetic.

 

...Is it any reason they can't ignore people criticizing the ending. Under any scrutiny it is a miserable train wreck and doesn't even seem to be the intended ending. So they have to shout us down to hide their own insecurities about the ending to feel better about the ending. Because if they arguing with us the have moral righteousness on their side since they are "respecting the author's decision and protecting him from harsh criticisms." Which allows them to not focus on the awful aspect of the ending.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 09 December 2015 - 07:18 PM.

[NeonRanger]

@Emb3rs: I watch the Sakura rants, and I completely agree with them...in a way. Most notably, King of Lightning's video and another by a small YT channel (Sasuke419). I also read another arguments in a website about why Sakura's character is so hated compared to Hinata. 

 

Sakura is the main character, the heroine. Hinata is a secondary character. Our expectations are completely different for these two based on the roles they play. You can go on tumblr and on other forums, and talk to anti-NH, SNS, and even some NS, and most have told me that they would have been okay with Hinata/NH if she had more of a role into the story besides "Naruto-Kun". Even YT's like Forneverworld said that in his one review that Hinata's too much about Naruto in one of his rants. A lot of people prefer Hinata over Sakura, especially in the west.

 

Here are the reasons: (Compare)

 

Sakura (Heroine):

 

- lack of a proper backstory

- still in love with Sasuke despite all the kitten he's done.

- even though she's been developing feelings for Naruto, she still has a soft spot for Sasuke,

- 5 Kage Summit Arc disaster (a lot of people dropped Sakura since that Arc)

- lack of a propar character outside of romance (Kishi flipped flopped to the point where her character ended up only about romance instead of so much more)

- IMO, she's a Tsunade 2.0 compared to Sasuke and Naruto (she has no original skills compared to them even if they were asspulls)

- the anime depict her as a self-centered witch who is caught between the love of two men (there was a Naruto filler where Sakura question who would she save, Sasuke or Naruto, and A LOT of people slammed there faces in the wall; like really?)

- the anime/ movie also exaggerated her character to the point where she is unlikable (Kishi only made in worst with the manga). I didn't like the meaningless fillers and movies where she would punch Naruto, Sai, or Lee just because. She had only punched Naruto for reason of his stupidity, and punched Sai once (or twice?) for reasons that were explained, and she never hit Lee at all. The anime alone ruined her character for me. 

- there's more, but the list would be even longer...

 

Hinata: (Secondary)

 

- ch. 432(436?) where she jumped in front of Pain for Naruto

- ch. 615 (offered support for Naruto at a important point of time)

- she had a decent backstory, that was dropped for "Naruto-Kun" in part 2

- her personality is bland but likable compared to Sakura.

- anime makes her into okatu fanservice and exaggerates her character (Pain Arc, like you're really adding more than the mangaka himeself?) and made her a little more important then necessary. 

- she's is in love with a boy who as only ever been nice to everyone around him.

- HUGE point: she is not in love with Sasuke, like AT ALL.

- The Last ruined her character a lot. 

 

Hinata is irrevelent to the plot; that's why people don't like Hinata after The Last came out. There were shocked she had this much of a role in her life. But people never cared for and even liked her before than  compared to Sakura she was failed potential since part 1.

 

Sakura is a main character; we have more expectations for her compared to Hinata. I'm sorry, but she lost a huge amount of her following after the Summit Arc, and even more so after 693.

[Catra]

http://soaring-bloss...ted-this-at-the

Got this reblog of the post I did on Tumblr, guys, using James' image. ~_~ Man, didn't even see I said I hated how Hinata's potential was wasted.......

used filler as backup. argument is automatically invalid.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

used filler as backup. argument is automatically invalid.

 

Exactly what I told HalfDemonInuyasha on Skype last night, Catra. =/ And the guy who reblogged missed the fact I said I didn't think that, but that I hated she lost her potential.

[starlitestarbrite]

how is it that hinata's portrayed as the shy, sweet QUIET girl...yet her fanbrats are LOUD, and obnoxious, can't they see they're just fueling the hate she has towards her already LOL

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

how is it that hinata's portrayed as the shy, sweet QUIET girl...yet her fanbrats are LOUD, and obnoxious, can't they see they're just fueling the hate she has towards her already LOL

 

The irony is hilarious and also kinda delicious, Star XD

[Bail o' Lies]

how is it that hinata's portrayed as the shy, sweet QUIET girl...yet her fanbrats are LOUD, and obnoxious, can't they see they're just fueling the hate she has towards her already LOL

Cause their thin-skinned spoiled entitled brats the are probably in their mid twenties or teens?

[rocci]

@neonranger
Sakura is an ordinary girl so her backstory would be bland aka doesn't have any tragedy.
Kishi never touch her genjutsu trait.
Sakura is romance because she's the romantic subplot, but kishi could fulfill her potential instead waste it.
Kage summit doesn't have any follow up is what make her unsaveable.
I don't have anyproblem with the status quo for one side love triangle.

Kishi failed her simply because he's a bad writer who tought creating a dislikeable heroine and doesn't developing her is a good thing. And his best solution when she became hateful is making her pretty?

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

how is it that hinata's portrayed as the shy, sweet QUIET girl...yet her fanbrats are LOUD, and obnoxious, can't they see they're just fueling the hate she has towards her already LOL

One fun thing to say that will surely piss them off - that they sound just like Part 1 Sakura when it came to Sasuke, especially if Naruto said anything bad about him.

[NeonRanger]

@neonranger
Sakura is an ordinary girl so her backstory would be bland aka doesn't have any tragedy.
Kishi never touch her genjutsu trait.
Sakura is romance because she's the romantic subplot, but kishi could fulfill her potential instead waste it.
Kage summit doesn't have any follow up is what make her unsaveable.
I don't have anyproblem with the status quo for one side love triangle.

Kishi failed her simply because he's a bad writer who tought creating a dislikeable heroine and doesn't developing her is a good thing. And his best solution when she became hateful is making her pretty?

 

Yeah, I know her back story would be be ordinary, but I didn't want a tragedy. Yet, we knew all about Sasuke, Naruto and Kakashi's back stories and family...but we had to find out about Sakura's through the RtN movie that is just semi-canon. And her parents weren't even fleshed out enough to be meaningful parents (I mean there meaningful as in being Sakura's parents, but I literally know nothing about them). 

 

I agree with you on the rest. I don't know where Kishi was going with during the Kage Summit....

[rocci]

@neonranger
Kishi could introduce them by making team 7 hanging out in sakura house.
Why don't kishi do that? I don't know.

If I'm not mistaken, naruto parent(kushina) will not get introduce if kishi doesn't want to give message to his child.

[starlitestarbrite]

"I tried so hard to make you guys like her, I made her so pretty and yet hinafans give me hatemail. :superior:" - Kishi is bitter at fans.

And here I thought teen-Hinata was bland.  She actually had a bit of character before - bad character, but character nonetheless. She's now nothing more than a smiley face and the most relevant thing about her is her uterus.

 it was all as clear as day that people LOVED NS and sakura had fans'...he reminds me of one of those people who no matter how many compliments', and encouragements' they get they would rather listen to the bullies, and haters just to get more attention [drama queen/king, attention seekers, you all know the types' lol]

 

 

but it backfired cause eventually the ones who DID care will soon move on cause the only attention they seem to love is negative attention!. kishi must love the hate he gets cause he CHOSE to let the freaking haters' win.

 

he only has himself to blame in the end. cause it seems to HIM haters' are the only ones who matter not true fans' who braught his work to life with fanart, fanfics, AND A HOLIDAY!...did the NH/SS fans give their ships a holiday? NO, NS did...kishi brushed off the WRONG group of fans'! and now i can tell by how he ACTS he REGRETS IT! lol.

Edited by starlitestarbrite, 10 December 2015 - 05:36 AM.

[Emb3rs]

@Emb3rs: I watch the Sakura rants, and I completely agree with them...in a way. Most notably, King of Lightning's video and another by a small YT channel (Sasuke419). I also read another arguments in a website about why Sakura's character is so hated compared to Hinata. 

 

Sakura is the main character, the heroine. Hinata is a secondary character. Our expectations are completely different for these two based on the roles they play. You can go on tumblr and on other forums, and talk to anti-NH, SNS, and even some NS, and most have told me that they would have been okay with Hinata/NH if she had more of a role into the story besides "Naruto-Kun". Even YT's like Forneverworld said that in his one review that Hinata's too much about Naruto in one of his rants. A lot of people prefer Hinata over Sakura, especially in the west.

 

Here are the reasons: (Compare)

 

Sakura (Heroine):

 

- lack of a proper backstory

- still in love with Sasuke despite all the kitten he's done.

- even though she's been developing feelings for Naruto, she still has a soft spot for Sasuke,

- 5 Kage Summit Arc disaster (a lot of people dropped Sakura since that Arc)

- lack of a propar character outside of romance (Kishi flipped flopped to the point where her character ended up only about romance instead of so much more)

- IMO, she's a Tsunade 2.0 compared to Sasuke and Naruto (she has no original skills compared to them even if they were asspulls)

- the anime depict her as a self-centered witch who is caught between the love of two men (there was a Naruto filler where Sakura question who would she save, Sasuke or Naruto, and A LOT of people slammed there faces in the wall; like really?)

- the anime/ movie also exaggerated her character to the point where she is unlikable (Kishi only made in worst with the manga). I didn't like the meaningless fillers and movies where she would punch Naruto, Sai, or Lee just because. She had only punched Naruto for reason of his stupidity, and punched Sai once (or twice?) for reasons that were explained, and she never hit Lee at all. The anime alone ruined her character for me. 

- there's more, but the list would be even longer...

 

Hinata: (Secondary)

 

- ch. 432(436?) where she jumped in front of Pain for Naruto

- ch. 615 (offered support for Naruto at a important point of time)

- she had a decent backstory, that was dropped for "Naruto-Kun" in part 2

- her personality is bland but likable compared to Sakura.

- anime makes her into okatu fanservice and exaggerates her character (Pain Arc, like you're really adding more than the mangaka himeself?) and made her a little more important then necessary. 

- she's is in love with a boy who as only ever been nice to everyone around him.

- HUGE point: she is not in love with Sasuke, like AT ALL.

- The Last ruined her character a lot. 

 

Hinata is irrevelent to the plot; that's why people don't like Hinata after The Last came out. There were shocked she had this much of a role in her life. But people never cared for and even liked her before than  compared to Sakura she was failed potential since part 1.

 

Sakura is a main character; we have more expectations for her compared to Hinata. I'm sorry, but she lost a huge amount of her following after the Summit Arc, and even more so after 693.

I feel like by pushing for this NH ship Kishi ultimately made lots of characters look bad. Naruto for one is known for never giving up and if he is adamant about something he wont give up until the matter is solved. He wouldn't just turn his back on Sakura he would most likely confront her about how he feels and have an actual discussion about there future. Hinata could of had a much bigger role even as a side character. Her family is one of the most powerfull clans of Konoha and she is the heir. Im sure something could have been done, even a really good canon movie. Sakura was trashed the worst because after the pain arc she relapsed back to the fangirl  we all disliked. She had really good development and as a member of team 7 she should have been treated with more care. Sasuke was also brought down a bit because he wouldnt be willing to revive his clan with someone he has bad blood with. You can argue that true love conquers all but there is a limit and attempted murder is that limit. Not to mention he shows little to no love more like team love like he does with Naruto. In the end Its just terrible i wish it didnt end like this but it seems hopeless now seeing as how they are pushing for the next gen of Konoha as a sequal when they should rework this BS fans were put through

[Emb3rs]

@neonranger
Sakura is an ordinary girl so her backstory would be bland aka doesn't have any tragedy.
Kishi never touch her genjutsu trait.
Sakura is romance because she's the romantic subplot, but kishi could fulfill her potential instead waste it.
Kage summit doesn't have any follow up is what make her unsaveable.
I don't have anyproblem with the status quo for one side love triangle.

Kishi failed her simply because he's a bad writer who tought creating a dislikeable heroine and doesn't developing her is a good thing. And his best solution when she became hateful is making her pretty?

Makes me cringe that he treated a main character like this not to mention the fact that she can make Naruto happier then anyone most of the time.

[MagicalNgro]

Sorry if this was pointed out before. But does anybody else think it's ironic that Naruto's feelings for Sakura were written off as part of his rivalry with sasuke, when that explanation actually works better regarding Sakura's feelings for Sasuke. That could easily be attributed to her rivalry with ino

[rocci]

It is.

They need to remove it in order to make Hinata the first girl.

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

It's confirmed with this new Boruto manga that Kishi never made us hate Sakura. It was that sexist pig assistant of his that ruined this franchise when he first came onto Kishi's staff at 2010. He manipulated Kishi 

[Bail o' Lies]

It's confirmed with this new Boruto manga that Kishi never made us hate Sakura. It was that sexist pig assistant of his that ruined this franchise when he first came onto Kishi's staff at 2010. He manipulated Kishi 

2010? That was the start of the war arc at the very least. let me check... Wow 2010 was the end of the Kage meeting arc when Sasuke was fighting Danzo and continued to the start of the war arc. So yes this guy depending what he was doing. He could have had a large effect on kishi. Especially since this was around the time people were complaining about Sakura's "false confession."

[NeonRanger]

People really hated Sakura from that chapter, not only because of  the confession, but how also how she handled the situation with her teammates and everything. It wasn't a good Arc for her, so maybe they manage to convince Kishi how much of a better Heroine Hinata is.