31579 replies to this topic

[Phantom_999]

YEAAAAAAH.............. I feel Sakura could full on kiss Naruto on the lips and they would STILL call it, a sibling bond. You're right of course, I'm just saying that's how delusional Naruto and Sakura's anti shippers are because they kept defaulting to that argument even during some the more romance inclined moments between the two.

Edited by Phantom_999, 27 February 2020 - 02:47 AM.

[DrK]

So why in god's name do they keep using this argument? Because they are stupid...there I answered my own question.

I do agree they come off as unintelligent but I honestly see this kind of behavior in all areas of life.. People move the goalposts out of their bias because they become LOYAL or INVESTED in a certain view.

 

Like in sports... basketball for instance, if someone considers Jordan to be the greatest of all time (or Lebron, Kobe (rip) or whoever they think it is... Doesn't really matter), then they are going to emphasize the facts that support what they WANT to believe while minimizing or rejecting, even denying those that do not. And in the end the actual strength of the case/argument doesn't even matter because they would believe this regardless. Because they're a fan (or antifan as the case may be)

 

Or something much simpler, if someone simply WANTS to believe that someone else is a bad person, or that this individual likes them, or hates someone else... Or pretty much anything about anyone. They will find a way to believe that. And possibly try to indoctrinate others  And it may be hard or even impossible to sway them.

 

Basically, the word "fan" is short for fanatic. And I do not really understand how people manage to NOT find this attitude nauseating just because they happen to like or agree with whichever view is being presented.

[VanitasDS76491]

You know something funny I was rewatching TyranntX videos, and it came to my mind that if you did kill Hinata off in her fight with Neji, what would change really? I mean, really guys throughout  Naruto, what would change if Hinata wasn't there?
 
Nothing.
 
Chūnin Exams (Arc)
 
Once Hinata is dead, nothing significant happens. The only thing that would happen is Hinata not talking with Naruto that she had, which Naruto never needed since he saw what Neji did. And if he didn't see the fight well, so many others that can warn Naruto that Neji will kill him to win.
 
Konoha Crush (Arc)
 

Hinata falls asleep and plays no part at all. The same would happen if she died as well, and people say she is more useful than Sakura why?
 

Search for Tsunade
 
Again Hinata plays no part. She stays in Konoha doing nothing, not even helping Naruto has her fans love to say, what else can I say on this arc? I mean no Hinata that plays any part.
 

Sasuke Recovery Mission
 
Once again, Hinata does nothing even Sakura does something, and that's telling everyone what Sasuke is doing without that well, I'll get into that in another post.
 
So yeah all thought part one since her death nothing that big would change at all this is how pointless Hinata is in the manga and the whole of Naruto as you kill her off in her fight with Neji nothing changes at all.

Agreed she does so little and disappear for a good chunk of part 1 and 2.

[James S Cassidy]

I do agree they come off as unintelligent but I honestly see this kind of behavior in all areas of life.. People move the goalposts out of their bias because they become LOYAL or INVESTED in a certain view.

 

Like in sports... basketball for instance, if someone considers Jordan to be the greatest of all time (or Lebron, Kobe (rip) or whoever they think it is... Doesn't really matter), then they are going to emphasize the facts that support what they WANT to believe while minimizing or rejecting, even denying those that do not. And in the end the actual strength of the case/argument doesn't even matter because they would believe this regardless. Because they're a fan (or antifan as the case may be)

 

Or something much simpler, if someone simply WANTS to believe that someone else is a bad person, or that this individual likes them, or hates someone else... Or pretty much anything about anyone. They will find a way to believe that. And possibly try to indoctrinate others  And it may be hard or even impossible to sway them.

 

Basically, the word "fan" is short for fanatic. And I do not really understand how people manage to NOT find this attitude nauseating just because they happen to like or agree with whichever view is being presented.

Maybe, but unlike the Hinata worship sports players actually have things to attribute to.

Babe Ruth vs Sammy Sosa or Mark MacGwire for example. Sammy Sosa and Mark MacGwire both broke Babe Ruth's record, but many could argue that both were from a different time, used steroids, and more.

Babe Ruth, on the other hand, was from the earlier days of baseball and despite smoking cigars and eating red meat, he was still one hell of an athlete. I mean, imagine how good Babe Ruth could have been if he trained harder for his baseball career.

And that's my point. Hinata has NOTHING to her name save for maybe one or two defining moments and yet they praise her like she is the BEST female anime character ever created.

How can you even compare this?
It is like comparing Babe Ruth to Greta Thunberg and asking "who is the better sports player?" How can you even do this? And instead of admitting that Greta is just not a sports player, they rather reverse argue to say "well, when was the last time Babe Ruth did anything for the environment?"

Sports fans arguing over who the best player in a sport makes more sense than anything the Pro-ender Hinata fanatics have ever preached. At least I can follow the logic with the sports players.

"Kobe has three rings dude."
-Burn Notice

THIS makes more sense than any Naruto related arguments I have seen and this was a staged bar fight.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 07 February 2020 - 05:04 PM.

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

Hinata fantards is Louisville basketball fan stupid. They both think they are more superior when in reality Hinata will never be a great heroine and Louisville will never be Kentucky basketball.

[DrK]

How can you even compare this?
It is like comparing Babe Ruth to Greta Thunberg and asking "who is the better sports player?" How can you even do this? And instead of admitting that Greta is just not a sports player, they rather reverse argue to say "well, when was the last time Babe Ruth did anything for the environment?"

Like I said... Moving the goalposts.

 

If you choose to argue with someone who thinks this way (I don't recommend it), you just need to wait for the moment when they move the goalposts and call them out on doing so.

 

Like "If Michael Jordan is so great then why did he keep losing in the first round in the 80's?" News flash, the argument was (possibly) about Jordan being better than whatever player you like, not Jordan being better than God. He can lose and still be the best player potentially.

 

"If Sakura should be with Naruto then why did she hit Naruto and treat him badly?" News flash, she can treat Naruto badly on a few occasions and still be better than Hinata! The argument is Sakura being better than Hinata, not a hypothetical perfect love interest that never existed in the manga.

 

Just watch out for that.

Edited by DrK, 07 February 2020 - 06:18 PM.

[Derock]

It makes me happy to see straight statistics here, because you can't dispute facts. Hinata is a secondary character, she doesn't even qualify as a major secondary character. She is no more important than any of the other rookies amongst her. People will still deny to this day that Sakura is Naruto's love interest, even though that is indisputable fact. Let's call these people for what they are: mindless sheep. I wonder what those who re-read the manga do - do they just imagine Hinata instead of Sakura? 

 

People will argue for NH as not a total asspull, but you can't argue against facts. That's called denial. This reminds me of my confusion when Korra and Asami became canon (recently watched Korra for the first time). While Korra and Asami are very different, because it's protaganist x the fourth main, the reason why I linken it to NH is the asspull factor that happens at the end. Korra and Asami literally got together out of nowhere and there's no indictation of any inkling of romantic feelings throughout the whole series. 

 

The manga cover you mentioned, is it the one with Hinata right next to Naruto and Sakura next to Sasuke? If so, then the timeline says too much. Would that mean that Neji was killed off just for the sake of a moment that didn't magically change Naruto's feelings? Anyways. I came across that cover recently, and man, it is not accurate in relation to the story at all, for the reasons you listed. Hinata is not a significant/special person in Naruto's life. Indisputable fact. She, along with the other rookies, will be generally there as 'people' in Naruto's life of course. Naruto's special people, however, is Team 7. How the kitten can you debate that when it's literally been shown as fact from the begining over and over and over again? With regards to Sasuke and Sakura, while they do have that Team 7 comrade bond, Team 7 at that stage in his life was not significant to him. That ended when he left the village. Sakura, someone who is not in his life anymore, should not kittening be there. End of story. It should be people who are significant to his current state.....(Orichimaru, Kabuto, Team Taka etc.). Obviously, Sakura should be next to Naruto, due to her being in Team 7, and most notably, one of his highlighted 'special people' and oh yeah....his love interest. 

 

Hmmm I don't think it's fair to compare Ichihime and Ichiruki though. Orihime (and some people try to compare her to Hinata, but they couldn't be any more different), but Orihime is a semi-significant character in the series. She is not a minor secondary character....at all. You probably know better as I'm not well versed in Bleach, but I don't beleive there was a romance sub-plot in the series, while Naruto had a strong one from day 1. There was just a a Orihime who had feelings for the protaganist. Bleach deserves its whole side-garbage can with its ending. 

 

You know, the "Naruto doesn't understand love" literally erases his entire kittening character. Like it's gone. Literally. Literally from the beggining (CHAPTER 1) you have an attention-starved, love-starved etc. boy who just wants to be acknolwedged, make friends, have a family and of course with all that, be loved alongside other emotional feelings etc. I know people joke and say men are from mars, but damn. They actually believed it. To say Naruto doesn't understand love is to erase his entire character. No question. Naruto is an extremely emotionally-charged person given his tragic upbringing. How can you not understand something that you long for? As if it's not part of our natural emotions. Damn.

 

Y'all notice how this entire time, Masashi has just been bombarded with criticism and has been giving kitten excuses as to why he didn't make NaruSaku canon and why he made NH and a secondary character the temporary protagonist through a dedicated movie. Literally. Multiple times he has had to give, obviously conflicting, reasons as to why this all happened. "Manga-ended-like-it-should-have": Who? Where? Obviously, this was inevitable, given that the ending and everything that happened contradicted the entire manga. It's like a real-life X-men: Days of Future Past happened.

PREACH, girl, PREACH!!!

 

[James S Cassidy]

It makes me happy to see straight statistics here, because you can't dispute facts. Hinata is a secondary character, she doesn't even qualify as a major secondary character. She is no more important than any of the other rookies amongst her. People will still deny to this day that Sakura is Naruto's love interest, even though that is indisputable fact. Let's call these people for what they are: mindless sheep. I wonder what those who re-read the manga do - do they just imagine Hinata instead of Sakura? 

 

People will argue for NH as not a total asspull, but you can't argue against facts. That's called denial. This reminds me of my confusion when Korra and Asami became canon (recently watched Korra for the first time). While Korra and Asami are very different, because it's protaganist x the fourth main, the reason why I linken it to NH is the asspull factor that happens at the end. Korra and Asami literally got together out of nowhere and there's no indictation of any inkling of romantic feelings throughout the whole series.

Numbers don't lie. As for Korra and Asami, you can add Bumblebee to RWBY to that list of "pairings that have very little to no development."

What is it with these writers making couples happen in their stories that have no chemistry and no development? Like, they avoid and make any reason not to actual write the development.

 

The manga cover you mentioned, is it the one with Hinata right next to Naruto and Sakura next to Sasuke? If so, then the timeline says too much. Would that mean that Neji was killed off just for the sake of a moment that didn't magically change Naruto's feelings? rest. 

 

 

Yeah the cover is the one for the hand holding with Neji as the phoenix and what not. That dumb one that has nothing to do with the actual chapter.

 

Hmmm I don't think it's fair to compare Ichihime and Ichiruki though. Orihime (and some people try to compare her to Hinata, but they couldn't be any more different), but Orihime is a semi-significant character in the series. She is not a minor secondary character....at all. You probably know better as I'm not well versed in Bleach, but I don't beleive there was a romance sub-plot in the series, while Naruto had a strong one from day 1. There was just a a Orihime who had feelings for the protaganist. Bleach deserves its whole side-garbage can with its ending.

 

You're right. It is not fair, but that is exactly why it is relevant. Bleach made a more convincing pairing with IchiHime than NH and that was rushed. Kubo never had Ichigo confess who he liked ever, but we knew Orihime loved him, but she as a female love interest, also knew that her love for him should not interfere with his life choices no matter what. THAT is the difference between NH and IchiHime. Orihime has cared about her man, while Hinata was selfish non-stop. (Again, Hinata admitted it herself twice.)

However, I always compare them for 2 reasons.
1. Bleach and Naruto ran at relatively the same time so you can see how they differ coming from the same writing tropes.

and 2. Many proenders of NH and Hinata HATED IchiHime because they said they "lacked true development" which to me shows again how their double standards are.

IchiHime to them, which had a better written story in comparison, is considered rushed, but NH which actually was retconning into existence is supposedly "well-planned" and "well-written.

 

You know, the "Naruto doesn't understand love" literally erases his entire kittening character. Like it's gone. Literally. Literally from the beggining (CHAPTER 1) you have an attention-starved, love-starved etc. boy who just wants to be acknolwedged, make friends, have a family and of course with all that, be loved alongside other emotional feelings etc. I know people joke and say men are from mars, but damn. They actually believed it. To say Naruto doesn't understand love is to erase his entire character. No question. Naruto is an extremely emotionally-charged person given his tragic upbringing. How can you not understand something that you long for? As if it's not part of our natural emotions. Damn.

 

Y'all notice how this entire time, Masashi has just been bombarded with criticism and has been giving kitten excuses as to why he didn't make NaruSaku canon and why he made NH and a secondary character the temporary protagonist through a dedicated movie. Literally. Multiple times he has had to give, obviously conflicting, reasons as to why this all happened. "Manga-ended-like-it-should-have": Who? Where? Obviously, this was inevitable, given that the ending and everything that happened contradicted the entire manga. It's like a real-life X-men: Days of Future Past happened.

 

Just goes to show....the ONLY way to make NH canon was you had to kill everything that made Naruto great. Whatever good that was about Naruto they had to destroy to make him love Hinata.



 

[Phantom_999]

Everything was stacked against Hinata from the very beginning of the manga. there was nothing to show that she would be an even remotely significant character in the story, much less Naruto's future wife.

 

She first appeared in Chapter 37 of the manga well after it was established Naruto had  a huge crush on Sakura. She never had any significant and emotional bonding scenes with Naruto and in fact could go hundreds of chapters unaddressed and off panel and no one that is not drooling over her or worshiping her "huge rack'" would throw a hissy fit nor would they actually notice she is not there. when Naruto wants to relax and unwind off duty, He DOESN'T GO TO HER to hang out or ask on a date. the list can go on.

 

My point is for the millionth, billionth time, for anyone to even fancy the notion that Hinata is Naruto's true love and the one he wants as his girlfriend and wife, the entire damn story had to be ignored and rewritten into a retcon. EVIDENCE? *points to "The Last: Naruto the Movie"*. And hell, never forget the type of fans her supporters are. Everything in the story that is not how Naruto and Hinata are about to have "their big, fancy romantic wedding and Smexy yum yum time"   is ignored and forgotten. Just saying.

Edited by Phantom_999, 27 February 2020 - 09:30 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Numbers don't lie. As for Korra and Asami, you can add Bumblebee to RWBY to that list of "pairings that have very little to no development."

What is it with these writers making couples happen in their stories that have no chemistry and no development? Like, they avoid and make any reason not to actual write the development.

 

They just don't wanna be cliché only to make things cliché in the long run by not planning or thinking?

[DrK]

The Last took a shonen property that was all about shameless emotionalism and made it incredibly cold and boring. With characters who are generally distant and don't REALLY care about anything or anyone like Sakura and Gaara (and I will never forgive the latter)...

 

And Naruto is just too misanthropically DENSE to do so. Since they decided to make him into a straight up idiot instead of an emotionally intelligent idiot. Goku earned the right to be that way. Naruto didn't and it would not be at all believable that anyone in universe could ever like or even TOLERATE him if it wasn't for the fact that they've all become COMPLETELY VAPID as well.

[James S Cassidy]

 

They just don't wanna be cliché only to make things cliché in the long run by not planning or thinking?

I rather it be cliche than....oh I don't know...NON-EXISTENT. At least give me something to work with.
 

 

The Last took a shonen property that was all about shameless emotionalism and made it incredibly cold and boring. With characters who are generally distant and don't REALLY care about anything or anyone like Sakura and Gaara (and I will never forgive the latter)...

 

And Naruto is just too misanthropically DENSE to do so. Since they decided to make him into a straight up idiot instead of an emotionally intelligent idiot. Goku earned the right to be that way. Naruto didn't and it would not be at all believable that anyone in universe could ever like or even TOLERATE him if it wasn't for the fact that they've all become COMPLETELY VAPID as well.

And Naruto is supposed to be able to....and I quote..."connect with people through emotions."

Talk about side-stepping a plot hole only to fall off a cliff.

By the way, NH only had 0.2% moments in the manga.
That means 99.98% of the time....Naruto gave no phucks about Hinata...and he still doesn't.

 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 09 February 2020 - 10:13 AM.

[VanitasDS76491]

I rather it be cliche than....oh I don't know...NON-EXISTENT. At least give me something to work with.
 
 

And Naruto is supposed to be able to....and I quote..."connect with people through emotions."
Talk about side-stepping a plot hole only to fall off a cliff.

By the way, NH only had 0.2% moments in the manga.
That means 99.98% of the time....Naruto gave no phucks about Hinata...and he still doesn't.

Agreed and it's like there's nothing else in her mind save Naruto 24/7 I mean Kiba and shino and Naruto could be injured and dying and she'd probably let them die and save Naruto.
At least orihime mind isn't always on ichigo she cares about all her friends rukia, chad, uryu and tatsuki plus orihime seems like a better friend and the actor puts more effort into orhimie than hinata heck she put more effort into voicing yoshi in the bounty arc or the side character Ryo in season 1 of bleach.

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

NaruSaku maybe cliche but you know what? Cliches are not always bad. As long as a couple have chemistry it doesn't matter if it is Cliche.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

NaruSaku maybe cliche but you know what? Cliches are not always bad. As long as a couple have chemistry it doesn't matter if it is Cliche.

 

Exactly! That's how I feel too about couples if you're gonna do romance in stuff, Ken. Even if it comes off cliché, who gives a **** if the couple done has chemistry?

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

 

Exactly! That's how I feel too about couples if you're gonna do romance in stuff, Ken. Even if it comes off cliché, who gives a **** if the couple done has chemistry?

I rather have a cliche well developed romance than a "new" romance that doesn't  have development at all.

[DrK]

I rather have a cliche well developed romance than a "new" romance that doesn't  have development at all.

New is a really kind choice of words for it.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

New is a really kind choice of words for it.

 

Tell me about it. I woulda gone with "Forced", or "Pity", or something else....

[Nostradamus]

I rather have a cliche well developed romance than a "new" romance that doesn't  have development at all.

Or a forced one.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Or a forced one.

 

Amen to that!