27 replies to this topic

[Therece]

I was following a pairing thread on Twitter and saw several fans mocking  NaruSaku  because their relationship blossomed primarily due to Sasuke's absence.

 

Despite many NaruSaku fans hating Sasuke for being an obstacle to the couple and his return definitively crushing NS's chances.

Ironically, Sasuke was the character who helped NaruSaku the most. Not Sai, Yamato or Minato's comment about Kushina.

 

it was only during his absence that Sakura and Naruto started to grow closer, with the goal of bringing him back. The Promise of a Lifetime (POAL) was made,etc.

Along with his entire transformation into a major antagonist force trying to destroy the village, including trying to kill Sakura, which gave the NaruSaku fandom hope that Sakura would eventually abandon her feelings for him and fall for Naruto.

 

However, this wasn't meant to be. Sasuke returned to help during the war, was redeemed, apologized, and Sakura jumped into his arms, effectively ending NaruSaku.

 

 

 

Here's the question:

 

In a scenario where Sasuke stayed in the village and continued to develop his bond with Sakura without events like the Uchiha clan massacre, Orochimaru's cursed seal, Itachi's mind raping , or Tobi's revelation about the village and the Uchiha massacre.

Essentially, Part 2 without the drama of saving Sasuke and his descent into Darkness.

 

Would Sakura have still developed some kind of bond with Naruto, with Sasuke closer to her like in Part 1? Or is NaruSaku entirely dependent on Sasuke's absence and actions to change Sakura's feelings?

 

 

 

SasuSaku was a very strong couple in Part 1, while NS was almost nonexistent. It was only in Part 2 that NS started to gain traction in the story and by fandom due to Sasuke's absence and crimes.

Edited by Therece, 08 May 2024 - 04:00 PM.

[totherpage95]

I don't agree ss was strong in part 1... Yes sasuke saved sakura in the forest but he later told sakura it was actually naruto who saved her from gaara and he didn't care when sakura kept trying to win his affection... This all is referenced from dragon quest and that series didn't promote the ss parallel 😅kishimoto even in interviews laments ss despite making it canon. From my pov it's clear he didn't fancy ss as much as the fans he simply made them canon to please ss fans. There's just no evidence of sasuke loving her he keeps calling her annoying he cares for her as a friend or family member because he never had family

Edited by totherpage95, 06 May 2024 - 03:29 PM.

[totherpage95]

From looking at your other posts you clearly have a bias for sasusaku.

[RedFaction]

If SasuSaku happens in part 1 or early part 2, then yeah I can imagine NaruSaku wouldn't develop much of a bond. We can see their bond is non-existent post the ending and in Boruto as evidence for that.

Their connection and friendship for much of the series was on getting Sasuke back and as soon as Sasuke was back, they don't act much more than acquaintances. That's why I always thought the brother/sister arguments were weak arguments. I don't see one moment of them acting like best friends or brother/sister in Boruto.

Once you remove any notion of romance for Naruto and Sakura, then there is basically nothing left for their relationship for ikemoto or kishimoto to write about.

Edited by RedFaction, 06 May 2024 - 06:42 PM.

[luans7]

I was following a pairing thread on Twitter and saw several fans mocking  NaruSaku  because their relationship blossomed primarily due to Sasuke's absence.

 

Despite many NaruSaku fans hating Sasuke for being an obstacle to the couple and his return definitively crushing NS's chances.

Ironically, Sasuke was the character who helped NaruSaku the most. Not Sai, Yamato or Minato.

 

it was only during his absence that Sakura and Naruto started to grow closer, with the goal of bringing him back. The Promise of a Lifetime (POAL) was made,etc.

Along with his entire transformation into a major antagonist force trying to destroy the village, including trying to kill Sakura, which gave the NaruSaku fandom hope that Sakura would eventually abandon her feelings for him and fall for Naruto.

 

However, this wasn't meant to be. Sasuke returned to help during the war, was redeemed, apologized, and Sakura jumped into his arms, effectively ending NaruSaku.

 

 

 

Here's the question:

 

In a scenario where Sasuke stayed in the village and continued to develop his bond with Sakura without events like the Uchiha clan massacre, Orochimaru's cursed seal, Itachi's torture, or Tobi's revelation about the village and the Uchiha massacre,

 

 

Would Sakura have still developed some kind of bond with Naruto, with Sasuke closer to her like in Part 1? Or is NaruSaku entirely dependent on Sasuke's absence?

 

 

 

SasuSaku was a very strong couple in Part 1, while NS was almost nonexistent. It was only in Part 2 that NS started to gain traction in the story and by fandom due to Sasuke's absence and crimes.

Se Sasuke não tivesse ido para Orochimaru, tenho a sensação de que ele se tornaria cada vez mais uma versão ninja de Rukawa, e o final de Naruto seria semelhante ao de Slam Dunk.

[Therece]

If SasuSaku happens in part 1 or early part 2, then yeah I can imagine NaruSaku wouldn't develop much of a bond. We can see their bond is non-existent post the ending and in Boruto as evidence for that.

Their connection and friendship for much of the series was on getting Sasuke back and as soon as Sasuke was back, they don't act much more than acquaintances. That's why I always thought the brother/sister arguments were weak arguments. I don't see one moment of them acting like best friends or brother/sister in Boruto.

Once you remove any notion of romance for Naruto and Sakura, then there is basically nothing left for their relationship for ikemoto or kishimoto to write about.

 

 

The majority of NaruSaku moments were directly influenced by Sasuke and POAL.

 

 

• The POAL revolved around Sasuke as a central character.
• Naruto's four-tailed transformation was triggered by Sasuke, causing guilt in Sakura because of the POAL.
• During their hospital visit, Naruto once again brings up Sasuke, mentioning their shared goal of catching up to him. This inspires Sakura to help Naruto later by feeding him.

• Naruto mentions POAL as a condition for confessing to Sakura.

• Finally, Sakura's confession, fueled by Sai's words about the POAL and Sasuke's transformation, was an attempt to free Naruto from the POAL.

In her confession to Naruto, Sakura cites Sasuke's aloofness and unavailability as justifications, contrasting them with Naruto.

 

This paints her confession to Naruto as a consolation prize, offered not out of genuine love, but because of the circumstances surrounding Sasuke and Sai's guilt trip about the POAL. 

 

The only genuine NaruSaku moments without Sasuke's name in the picture are:When Sakura considers giving up on the Chunin Exam to protect Naruto's dream.  In a  similar context to the CPR scene in the war, where Sakura saves Naruto with his Hokage dream in mind.

 

If Sasuke had returned to the village after killing Itachi without discovering the truth about the village and joined the Akatsuki, Sakura might not have had any trouble forgiving him and jumping into his arms  more easily than at the end of the manga. 

 

But let's set aside scenarios where Sasuke reciprocates Sakura's feelings  or accepts her confession at the end of Part 1. Imagine a scenario where Sasuke simply remains on Team 7 throughout Part 2 treating Sakura in the same way as part 1. Essentially, Part 2 without the drama of saving Sasuke or his descent into Darkness.

 

Interestingly, in this scenario, Sai and Yamato were not even introduced to Team 7. They were created only due to Sasuke's absence or to replace him. Karin also doesn't exist.  Sakura is the only girl Sasuke even interacts with.  Would Naruto and Sakura's relationship develop in the same way with Sasuke closer to Sakura in the village during Part 2 and without any POAL, with Sakura feeling no guilt towards Naruto?

Edited by Therece, 09 May 2024 - 05:32 AM.

[catsi563]

Yes there was a solid chance because the development was there 

 

it was slower and steady but present. Sasukes presence sans all the drama wouldnt have changed Narutos actions really nor the fact that he did not have feelings for Sakura. 

 

the issue is that the premise is based on SS being strong in part 1 well that fact is that isnt true because its missing one key element 

 

namely a VERY large S 

 

Sasuke was not present in the relationship as any form of equal partner and it was all in Sakura lap and one wall cannot build a house 

 

the entire relationship was one sided where as in NS it was growing visually before our eyes and we could witness its progression

 

A Sasuke; sans all the drama,wouldnt really have a motivation to change anything as Sakura would be one of a collection of fangirls who dont know him and do nothing but fawn all over him. And Sakura would not distinguish herself from this by any stretch of the imagination until late in part 1. And that only because Sasuke left the vllage which led to the promise of a lifetime and Narutos actions which led to her desire to be stronger. 

 

Its possible that Sakuras change could have come without the Sasuke drama as Sakura herself was shown slow signs of growth which was mostly due to Naruto plus her rivalry with Ino but this would have taken time.

 

theres also the bench scene to consider where in if Sasuke stays Sakura eventually confronts Sasuke about it in some attempt at a love confession only to discover the truth that it was Naruto all along who complimented her forehead

 

this throws an entirely new monkey wrench in the works as suddenly Sakura has to question everything she thought she knew

 

in Conclusion no i do not believe without a radical shift in Sasukes behavior and Sakuras for that matter that Sasukes presence would change the dynamic between the NS pairing it would be slower and take longer but it would still happen as the development was progressing in that direction as a wise manifesto said a long slow walk.

[Therece]

Yes there was a solid chance because the development was there 

 

it was slower and steady but present. Sasukes presence sans all the drama wouldnt have changed Narutos actions really nor the fact that he did not have feelings for Sakura. 

 

the issue is that the premise is based on SS being strong in part 1 well that fact is that isnt true because its missing one key element 

 

namely a VERY large S 

 

Sasuke was not present in the relationship as any form of equal partner and it was all in Sakura lap and one wall cannot build a house 

 

the entire relationship was one sided where as in NS it was growing visually before our eyes and we could witness its progression

 

A Sasuke; sans all the drama,wouldnt really have a motivation to change anything as Sakura would be one of a collection of fangirls who dont know him and do nothing but fawn all over him. And Sakura would not distinguish herself from this by any stretch of the imagination until late in part 

 

It's true that Sasuke didn't give a damn about any fangirl, like Ino.

The conviviality on Team 7 played a key role in making Sakura stand out.

Eventually, Sasuke came to consider her an dear person to him and want to protect her.

 

...

 

 

 

...

 

[/url]

 

 

Meanwhile, Sasuke made it clear Naruto became his best friend. Sakura's importance to him, however, remained open-ended. Was she just another best friend?

 

 

I'm not saying Sasuke will ask her out. never.

But it's possible that eventually, he will come to accept her feelings, if she were to grow even more in importance to him.

 

 

Just like he had no problem accepting her romantically at the end of the manga when he stoped to being obcessed about revange and let his past go...

 

 

 

 

 

Its possible that Sakuras change could have come without the Sasuke drama as Sakura herself was shown slow signs of growth which was mostly due to Naruto plus her rivalry with Ino but this would have taken time.

 

 

theres also the bench scene to consider where in if Sasuke stays Sakura eventually confronts Sasuke about it in some attempt at a love confession only to discover the truth that it was Naruto all along who complimented her forehead.   

 

this throws an entirely new monkey wrench in the works as suddenly Sakura has to question everything she thought she knew

 

 

 

I don't think this is relevant. Sakura had several opportunities to ask about this moment, but never brought it up to Sasuke throughout Part 1.

 

When Sasuke left and she tried to stop him, it was the perfect chance to question him about the Forehead scene. But she remembers the later moment when he called her annoying because of her comment about loneliness.

 

Sakura

[/url]

][/url]

 

 

 

When Sasuke returned, Sakura could have questioned him about this moment. But she preferred to ask if she could go with him. This led to the Forehead poke, which ironically, touched at the point of Sakura's insecurity.

 

And again, Sakura didn't relate or even remember the fake Sasuke complimenting her forehead at Chapter 3.

 

 

 

 

in Conclusion no i do not believe without a radical shift in Sasukes behavior and Sakuras for that matter that Sasukes presence would change the dynamic between the NS pairing it would be slower and take longer but it would still happen as the development was progressing in that direction as a wise manifesto said a long slow walk.

 

 

 

I believe the NaruSaku relationship would develop much slower or almost become nonexistent in Part 2, just as it was in Part 1 and the post-manga period.

 

What brought Sakura and Naruto closer together was their mutual desire to bring Sasuke back, along with all the drama that surrounded him + POAL. With Sasuke present, this desire that united them and the POAL simply dissipates.

 

 

Of course, Sakura would continue to support Naruto and his dream of becoming Hokage, as she did during the Chūnin Exam.

However,  things would dramatically change for NaruSaku relationship in Part 2. For example:

• Naruto would not have most of Sakura's attention in Part 2, as he would not be the only member of Team 7 close to her. Sasuke would be present too.
• Sakura would not have doubts about her feelings and would not be sad with a Sasuke who hasn't committed crimes.

 

 

Another important question: Would Sakura ever spontaneously confess her feelings to Naruto without the pressure from Sai about the POAL, and Sasuke in the village?

 

Probably not, while she would probably confess her feelings to Sasuke at some point, as she did twice in the canon.

Edited by Therece, 08 May 2024 - 04:04 PM.

[catsi563]

 

It's true that Sasuke didn't give a damn about any fangirl, like Ino.

The conviviality on Team 7 played a key role in making Sakura stand out.

Eventually, Sasuke came to consider her an dear person to him and want to protect he

yes he did that was part of growth  but he NEVER showed any form of actual affection or direct return of her feelings throughout this remained consistent to the point where at the end he had to practically spell it out for everyone that NO I HAVE NO FEELINGS FOR HER

 

 

Meanwhile, Sasuke made it clear Naruto became his best friend. Sakura's importance to him, however, remained open-ended. Was she just another best friend?

 

 

I'm not saying Sasuke will ask her out. never.

But it's possible that eventually, he will come to accept her feelings, if she were to grow even more in importance to him.

 

 

Just like he had no problem accepting her romantically at the end of the manga when he stoped to being obcessed about revange and let his past go...

 

This of course followed the garbage ending we got which i personally consider non canon given how bad it was everything past the manga titled the TRUE ending as it was called

 

While i wont dispute the possibility as anything can happen the story to that point does not support such a conclusion beyond a what if, No where does he accept her feelings 

 

 

I don't think this is relevant. Sakura had several opportunities to ask about this moment, but never brought it up to Sasuke throughout Part 1.

 

When Sasuke left and she tried to stop him, it was the perfect chance to question him about the Forehead scene. But she remembers the later moment when he called her annoying because of her comment about loneliness.

 

 

She does question him as the moment happens right at the bench where it happend she asks in a round about way sadly the writing wasnt on point for this but Sasuke clearly states I have no memory of this which refutes her entire claim at the moment of the special moment they shared

 

 

When Sasuke returned, Sakura could have questioned him about this moment. But she preferred to ask if she could go with him. This led to the Forehead poke, which ironically, touched at the point of Sakura's insecurity.

 

And again, Sakura didn't relate or even remember the fake Sasuke complimenting her forehead at Chapter 3.

 

this sadly is bad writing and a plot hole left over from the eventual editorial interference the event shouldve been bought up as it is one of the pivotal moments in the ""relationship"" and i use the word loosely that had occurred.

 

yet its never bought up again BECAUSE it would torpedo things on the spot. Wait you didnt compliment and want to kiss my forehead

 

No I didnt i was tied up in the classroom because that brat naruto jumped me and disguised himself as me for some bloody reason

 

Naruto was disguised as you and OOOOOHH??? Ill kill him then i ressurect him then Ill kill him then ill kill him again

 

 

believe the NaruSaku relationship would develop much slower or almost become nonexistent in Part 2, just as it was in Part 1 and the post-manga period.

 

What brought Sakura and Naruto closer together was their mutual desire to bring Sasuke back, along with all the drama that surrounded him + POAL. With Sasuke present, this desire that united them and the POAL simply dissipates.

 

 

Disagree they were allready moving closer together as multiple interactions showed during the wave arc chunin exams and sand invasion the fond look she gave naruto a smile by the way she never showed to ANYONE but for him alone is more than ample evidence of the relationship growing

 

the three of them can be analogous to three lines one blue one pink one orange

 

the blue and pink lines start closer together with the orange line on the outside but moving paralel to them then the pink line moves away from the blue line and closer to the orange line as the story progresses eventually around the POAL does the pink line cross over the middle ground to move closest to the orange line their shared goal being a catalyst but hardly the only thing her own desires to be stronger her own choices to stand by his side all playing into the moment

 

 

nother important question: Would Sakura ever spontaneously confess her feelings to Naruto without the pressure from Sai about the POAL, and Sasuke in the village?

 

Probably not, while she would probably confess her feelings to Sasuke at some point, as she did twice in the canon.

 

yes eventually she would it would take time but would happen as Naruto always needed a bit of a kickstart in some ways

 

Sasuke the confessions were the same spontaneous confessions of any love sick crush and dismissed as cleanly as they were

 

for Sakura and Naruto its a larger deeper narrative one that would end with not so much a spontaneous confession as a mutual one where both just talk to each other and remember all that they shared

[LuckyChi7]

I'll give my two cents on this whole thing, and given that we're slowly reaching the 10 year anniversary since Naruto ended.... 

 

 

More so with Part 2  to be perfectly frank, but here's the one thing I realized when it came to most of Naruto and Sakura's conversations.  A lot of them are all centered around Sasuke whether it's directly stated or not. Their  dynamic is great  and I still like it, but  I can't fathom how annoying it is just hearing them talk about Sasuke throughout Part 2. 

 

 

I think it's perfectly fine for Naruto and Sakura to start off Part 2 that way with them talking about the good old days with Sasuke, but... really when I look at at other series like Kenshin,  Yu Yu Hakushou,   Rave Master,  O-Parts Hunter,  Kingdom Hearts,  Shaman King, Final Fantasy, My Hero Academia, Black Clover, Avatar The Last Airbender, etc... a lot of the couple dynamics talk about more things than just one particular friend all the time. They talk about the future, and where they want to grow as time goes on. What they can do to better themselves as an individual, and how to make their mark on the world. 

 

I definitely feel that is one aspect that Naruto and Sakura heavily lacked in when it comes to the canon lore, they were too tied to Team 7.  Which I totally understand that Team 7 was a big focus point in Naruto, but let's be real.  Naruto and Sakura really needed to grow and move past their bonds with Sasuke and see the world for what it truly was.   

 

It's like real life, you start off thinking as a adolescent, but over time you mature and become wiser, and better. That is the one thing I truly feel Naruto and Sakura really needed, and that would've made them even more accepting.  However, there in lies the problem with not only just Naruto and Sakura, but for the series as a whole. 

 

 

They never really matured at all, and remained very one note about that.  Which is honestly a real shame when you really take a look at what Naruto and Sakura are, and how they could've been so much more than what they were given. 

Edited by LuckyChi7, 09 May 2024 - 12:23 AM.

[Therece]

yes he did that was part of growth  but he NEVER showed any form of actual affection or direct return of her feelings throughout this remained consistent to the point where at the end he had to practically spell it out for everyone that NO I HAVE NO FEELINGS FOR HER

 

 

One thing I learned after 700 chapters of Naruto and 6 years following the manga  It's that there's one thing Kishimoto loves more than trolling and drama. Those are plot twists, no matter how surprising or poorly done, especially after a Talk no Jutsu from Naruto. A discerning reader will readily identify the recurring pattern.

 

Zabuza saying he didn't care about Haku and he didn't mean nothing to him, but after a Talk no Jutsu, he went on to love him. 

 

Gaara, hated by the village and killing everyone, then became the Kazekage after a Talk no Jutsu. 

 

Nagato reviving the entire village after Naruto's TnJ.

 

Itachi, a psychopath who killed the clan in front of his brother and tortured him to the limits of insanity, becomes a martyr and a loving brother after his death.

 

Kishimoto wouldn't throw in a second declaration of love for Sakura in the last volume of the manga for nothing. Everyone, including NaruSaku fans, should be aware of the possibility of Sasuke's 180-degree shift in relation to Sakura and the potential for repressed feelings to be shown after his fight against Naruto and Naruto's Talk no Jutsu.

 

 

This of course followed the garbage ending we got which i personally consider non canon given how bad it was everything past the manga titled the TRUE ending as it was called

 

While i wont dispute the possibility as anything can happen the story to that point does not support such a conclusion beyond a what if, No where does he accept her feelings 

 

I  consider only the Boruto manga non canon because it wasn't written, illustrated and even  Kishimoto's supervision hasn't been confirmed yet.

 

Regardless of the theory – whether Kishimoto always had everything planned out or if he changed his mind due to some editorial influence – the fact remains that he written and illustrated everything in the original Naruto manga.    Therefore, everything written in those chapters should be taken into account.

 

She does question him as the moment happens right at the bench where it happend she asks in a round about way sadly the writing wasnt on point for this but Sasuke clearly states I have no memory of this which refutes her entire claim at the moment of the special moment they shared

 

 

Sasuke was lying. The fact that he called her "annoying" again was clearly a callback to the first time, showing that he remembered and Sakura got the reference.

 

 

...

 

 

 

 

 

this sadly is bad writing and a plot hole left over from the eventual editorial interference the event shouldve been bought up as it is one of the pivotal moments in the ""relationship"" and i use the word loosely that had occurred. yet its never bought up again BECAUSE it would torpedo things on the spot. Wait you didnt compliment and want to kiss my forehead

 

 

 

 

Sakura never thought about or had any flashbacks about this scene.

If the fact that the fake Sasuke complimented her forehead was so important for Sakura

 

Kishimoto should at least have shown a flashback to this scene at some point during 700 + 10 chapters  to demonstrate how iconic this moment was for Sakura. However, this never happened.

 

 

 

 

Disagree they were allready moving closer together as multiple interactions showed during the wave arc chunin exams and sand invasion the fond look she gave naruto a smile by the way she never showed to ANYONE but for him alone is more than ample evidence of the relationship growing

 

 

Just as NaruSaku became stronger than SasuSaku in Part 2 due to Sasuke's absence and his descent into "darkness" by trying to kill her and destroy the Village.

 

SasuSaku was stronger than NaruSaku in Part 1  Sakura openly loved Sasuke and always wanted to be near him. Additionally, Sasuke wasn't a jerk and considered Sakura important enough to protect or even sacrifice his life and revenge goal for her. But this is just opinion and I will not delve deeper into this theme.

 

 

 

 

 

yes eventually she would it would take time but would happen as Naruto always needed a bit of a kickstart in some ways

 

Sasuke the confessions were the same spontaneous confessions of any love sick crush and dismissed as cleanly as they were

 

for Sakura and Naruto its a larger deeper narrative one that would end with not so much a spontaneous confession as a mutual one where both just talk to each other and remember all that they shared

 

 

The issue is that none of Sakura's confessions to Sasuke have been classified as false or a simple blind infatuation. She wasn't forced or influenced by anyone neither.

 

In the first one, Sasuke himself thanked her. Naruto recognized that her love was real, and that's why he did the POAL when he saw how much she was suffering.  If it were a simple blind infatuation, there would be no reason for the POAL to exist in first place.

 

In the second one, when Sasuke said that he had no reason to love her, Kakashi scolded him, saying how true Sakura's love was and she still wanted to save him even after everything. This led Sasuke to do a complete 180-degree turn towards Sakura after the fight against Naruto

 

Sakura's confession to Naruto was influenced by the circumstances surrounding Sasuke and Sai blaming her for the POAL.

 

...

 

Sai himself admits:

 

 

...

 

 

I really doubt that Sakura would even consider making a love declaration to Naruto if Sai hadn't interfered.

Much less  in a Part 2 scenario with Sasuke in the village, without committing crimes and Sai blamming her for the POAL. Second point Naruto basically admitted that Sakura didn't love him, and she was lying to herself.

 

...

 

 

 

Naruto placed his goal to save Sasuke above both the POAL and Sakura, ultimately undoing the POAL.

 

 

 

...

[/url]

 

 

Sakura later simply confirms her love for Sasuke during the war in her first scene. 

Despite the fact that many NaruSaku fans don't accept it, the NaruSaku ship may have truly sunk in this chapter.

Afterward, at most, there are only arguments based on parallels and hopes that Sakura will move on from Sasuke, or that Sasuke won't return to the village or ever be redeemed.

 

 

Edited by Therece, 09 May 2024 - 05:19 AM.

[totherpage95]

it's like saying "kakashi and rin would have happened". why even ask for that? if not for obito kakashi would have let rin die... 
kishimoto and his brother were probably close so he wanted to keep the team the way it was in the story. even in dragon quest/hunterxhunter/o-parts hunter they all have a character kind of like sasuke

[totherpage95]

 

 

One thing I learned after 700 chapters of Naruto and 6 years following the manga  It's that there's one thing Kishimoto loves more than trolling and drama. Those are plot twists, no matter how surprising or poorly done, especially after a Talk no Jutsu from Naruto. A discerning reader will readily identify the recurring pattern.

 

Zabuza saying he didn't care about Haku and he didn't mean nothing to him, but after a Talk no Jutsu, he went on to love him. 

 

Gaara, hated by the village and killing everyone, then became the Kazekage after a Talk no Jutsu. 

 

Nagato reviving the entire village after Naruto's TnJ.

 

Itachi, a psychopath who killed the clan in front of his brother and tortured him to the limits of insanity, becomes a martyr and a loving brother after his death.

 

Kishimoto wouldn't throw in a second declaration of love for Sakura in the last volume of the manga for nothing. Everyone, including NaruSaku fans, should be aware of the possibility of Sasuke's 180-degree shift in relation to Sakura and the potential for repressed feelings to be shown after his fight against Naruto and Naruto's Talk no Jutsu.

 

 

I  consider only the Boruto manga non canon because it wasn't written, illustrated and even  Kishimoto's supervision hasn't been confirmed yet.

 

Regardless of the theory – whether Kishimoto always had everything planned out or if he changed his mind due to some editorial influence – the fact remains that he written and illustrated everything in the original Naruto manga.    Therefore, everything written in those chapters should be taken into account.

 

 

Sasuke was lying. The fact that he called her "annoying" again was clearly a callback to the first time, showing that he remembered and Sakura got the reference.

 

 

...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sakura never thought about or had any flashbacks about this scene.

If the fact that the fake Sasuke complimented her forehead was so important for Sakura

 

Kishimoto should at least have shown a flashback to this scene at some point during 700 + 10 chapters  to demonstrate how iconic this moment was for Sakura. However, this never happened.

 

 

 

Just as NaruSaku became stronger than SasuSaku in Part 2 due to Sasuke's absence and his descent into "darkness" by trying to kill her and destroy the Village.

 

SasuSaku was stronger than NaruSaku in Part 1  Sakura openly loved Sasuke and always wanted to be near him. Additionally, Sasuke wasn't a jerk and considered Sakura important enough to protect or even sacrifice his life and revenge goal for her. But this is just opinion and I will not delve deeper into this theme.

 

 

 

 

 

The issue is that none of Sakura's confessions to Sasuke have been classified as false or a simple blind infatuation. She wasn't forced or influenced by anyone neither.

 

In the first one, Sasuke himself thanked her. Naruto recognized that her love was real, and that's why he did the POAL when he saw how much she was suffering.  If it were a simple blind infatuation, there would be no reason for the POAL to exist in first place.

 

In the second one, when Sasuke said that he had no reason to love her, Kakashi scolded him, saying how true Sakura's love was and she still wanted to save him even after everything. This led Sasuke to do a complete 180-degree turn towards Sakura after the fight against Naruto

 

Sakura's confession to Naruto was influenced by the circumstances surrounding Sasuke and Sai blaming her for the POAL.

 

...

 

Sai himself admits:

 

 

...

 

 

I really doubt that Sakura would even consider making a love declaration to Naruto if Sai hadn't interfered.

Much less  in a Part 2 scenario with Sasuke in the village, without committing crimes and Sai blamming her for the POAL. Second point Naruto basically admitted that Sakura didn't love him, and she was lying to herself.

 

...

 

 

 

Naruto placed his goal to save Sasuke above both the POAL and Sakura, ultimately undoing the POAL.

 

 

 

...

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Sakura later simply confirms her love for Sasuke during the war in her first scene. 

Despite the fact that many NaruSaku fans don't accept it, the NaruSaku ship may have truly sunk in this chapter.

Afterward, at most, there are only arguments based on parallels and hopes that Sakura will move on from Sasuke, or that Sasuke won't return to the village or ever be redeemed.

 

 

 

you ss fans would gladly push a button to change the series to "sasuke" instead of "naruto" if it existed    this point where sakura confesses to sasuke just tells me he was trying to spare her feelings by lying and saying he didn't remember the bench moment... he was trying to be kind and convince her to leave him and continue a life separate from his. that doesn't mean he was in love with her and when sakura continued to claim she understood why he was leaving and what he was going through sasuke switched tactics and started to be more cold toward her. the opinion that sakura nearly kissing sasuke wasn't a factor in her feelings for him isn't one i agree with because it is the only major time "sasuke" reciprocated feelings for her romantically .....of course you can form an opinion that it didn't mean much but i highly disagree. why believe that sakura would be in love with sasuke if naruto without being transformed to pretend to be sasuke had said and done these things with sakura? she already was impressed with naruto when he went for kakashi in the bell test, they supported one another in the chunin exam, and naruto saved her from gaara. as for the second confession sakura did and comparing it to other times characters have done the right thing in the series well nagato always deep down wanted to do the right thing these feelings you claim are "repressed" are not visible at any time which is the problem there... gaara had a terrible upbringing it isn't unlikely he could find a new path. zabuza raised haku it isn't a stretch to find out he cared about him after haku sacrificed his life to save his. and itachi's motivations were properly explained it wasn't a 180 degree change of character but rather a secret that the higher ups in the leaf village and itachi kept from sasuke and the readers/viewers it's not comparable to some sort of "repressed feelings"  . the confession was yet another parallel for kakashi and rin. kakashi in this case did not have any feelings for rin so why would sasuke? logically the only real reason sasuke and sakura ended up with one another is likely because of the ship's popularity. kishimoto was trying to nail the coffin shut on ss because he likely didn't like them ending up with one another (as shown whenever he was asked about the ship in interviews). yes he made them canon but i doubt he liked doing that he clearly opposed nh in the kage summit arc he stated "sakura is the heroine not hinata". if the confession was the end of narusaku why have kushina and sakura be a parallel later? why have naruto tell his father sakura was his girlfriend?

[LuckyChi7]

it's like saying "kakashi and rin would have happened". why even ask for that? if not for obito kakashi would have let rin die... 
kishimoto and his brother were probably close so he wanted to keep the team the way it was in the story. even in dragon quest/hunterxhunter/o-parts hunter they all have a character kind of like sasuke

 

 

I'd make the argument that Seishi kept Ruby Crescent (the heroine) a core integral component to the narrative of O-Parts Hunter, and specifically to Jio Freed since the first chapter of the series all the way to the end. You could just tell inseparable  Seishi made Jio and Ruby which really shows.  The final chapter cover also speaks a lot on that front too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Masashi really needed the same touch that Seishi had when it came to developing his female characters and of course the romance aspect of it for Naruto and Sakura. 

 

 

I do wish so much that we got the same level of love and care for NaruSaku especially in the later half of Part 2 without Masashi throwing a bone to get the fandoms to wag their tails... like "OMG could it be? Could it be?"  and I'm just like thinking.... as an aspiring writer..... this is not how to win over your readers when it comes to developing romance between two characters. 

 

 

I know the argument a lot of people make is "Well Naruto isn't a romance therefore it's fine we didn't get a lot of focus..."  that has always been such a poor excuse I've heard time and time again.

 

 

Which, I'm gonna say this.... if romance isn't gonna be a super integral piece to the narrative of your story.... which is totally fine because any writer has the freedom to do that, but...  here's my advice.... Don't just fool around with your readers about which couple will be canon..... 

 

If you as the writer already know from the conception of your story that this couple is going to be canon then just focus on developing that pairing as you are telling the story you've created. 

 

 

That is definitely the #1 thing Masashi didn't understand when it came to Naruto. 

[Therece]

you ss fans would gladly push a button to change the series to "sasuke" instead of "naruto" if it existed 

 

Whether it's NS, SS, or NH, it doesn't matter. Naruto is not a shoujo manga. It's a shonen manga with a primary focus on fights, villains and plot. The pairings were just secondary plots that shipping fans gave too much importance due to the drama Kishimoto created and pairings wars inside the Fandom.

 

But whether you like it or not, Sasuke is the second main character of the manga. More than half of the manga and its arcs revolve around him and the Uchiha clan. He was Sakura's first love and the one she ended up with. He was also the main link that brought Sakura and Naruto together in Part 2 and the central theme of their interactions.

 

That's why I created this topic to discuss what a Part 2 for Sakura and Naruto would be like with Sasuke  in the village and without any major drama surrounding him like in Part 1. 

 

 

 well nagato always deep down wanted to do the right thing these feelings you claim are "repressed" are not visible at any time which is the problem there... gaara had a terrible upbringing it isn't unlikely he could find a new path. zabuza raised haku it isn't a stretch to find out he cared about him after haku sacrificed his life to save his. and itachi's motivations were properly explained it wasn't a 180 degree change of character but rather a secret that the higher ups in the leaf village and itachi kept from sasuke and the readers/viewers it's not comparable to some sort of "repressed feelings" 

 

 

Sasuke also had a tragic past marked by the Uchiha clan massacre. Additionally, characters like Itachi, Madara, and Orochimaru constantly manipulated him, trying to sway him down the wrong path. These events played a crucial role in Sasuke's departure from Team 7, the ensuing drama and his descent into "darkness" of Part 2.

 

The issue is that you want a Sasuke who pines for Sakura or openly asks her out on dates like Naruto. He's a character with a completely opposite personality. That will never happen.  However, in Part 1, it was clear that Sasuke cared about Sakura deeply, even to the point of being willing to die to save her. This was before the drama with the Uchihas unfolded and he left the village. Additionally, she had a level of influence over him, as seen when she helped break the cursed seal with her hug.

 

Even if less important characters could change after Naruto TnJ , it was naive to believe that Sasuke would never return, find a new purpose, or acknowledge Sakura in the end.  "SasuSaku" was never dead until Sakura moved on from Sasuke. Sasuke had already demonstrated his capacity for a complete turnaround without any Naruto TnJ. His decision to abandon his plan to destroy the village and instead fight in the war to protect it as clear evidence of this.

 

 

 

kakashi in this case did not have any feelings for rin so why would sasuke? logically the only real reason sasuke and sakura ended up with one another is likely because of the ship's popularity.  

 

 

If he didn't like it, Kishimoto had the pen and the authority to avoid making them official and stopping emphasizing Sakura's feelings altogether. The idea that Kishimoto was forced to do anything by the shipping fandom or editors is absurd. As the creator and owner of the franchise, he had complete creative control over everything in his manga, including secondary plots pairings. Especially at the end of the manga when Kishimoto was doing whatever he wanted. Or did some editor forced Kishimoto to make Kaguya?   Madara was much more popular than her . 

  

Sasuke ultimately accepted Sakura's feelings, while Rin ended up dead by Kakashi's hand, leaving Kakashi filled with guilt and resentment.  Kakashi could have easily dismissed Sakura's love as childish and foolissh and emphasized Naruto's loves for Sakura at this moment like he did with Rin. But he never did. Furthermore, Kakashi defended Sakura's feelings for Sasuke when she confessed for the second time, arguing that Sasuke was wrong to reject them.

 

While there are parallels between Team 7 and other characters, fundamental differences prevent them from being mere clones.  Sasuke, Naruto and Sakura  has their own unique identities. Additionally, there's no Hinata's equivalent in the other teams and neither Kushina and Minato have any ""Sasuke"" in their life.

 

Theoretically, Sakura surpassed Rin. She didn't die and won the love of her teammate. Naruto surpassed Obito. He didn't become a simp obsessed with a girl for his entire life and achieved his dream of becoming Hokage.

 

Sakura surpassed Tsunade. She didn't lose any loved ones and managed to save Sasuke and Naruto, unlike Tsunade who lost Dan and Nawaki. Naruto surpassed Jiraiya. He managed to save his friend and became Hokage.

 

It was never stated that the only important aspect of the parallels was Naruto simply winning Sakura's love. It's not like Naruto gives this the same importance to that as he does to Sasuke or his dream of becoming Hokage. He never said:  "How I can become Hokage without Sakura-Chan as my wife?"  But he did say he couldn't be Hokage without Sasuke back.

 

The POAL, which was once was  requirement for Naruto to confess his feelings to Sakura, was simply disregarded when Sakura "confessed". Instead, Naruto declared his unwavering resolve to save Sasuke, regardless of Sakura's approval.

 

 

if the confession was the end of narusaku why have kushina and sakura be a parallel later? why have naruto tell his father sakura was his girlfriend?

 

 

The same logic can be applied to both SS and NH. Why did Kishimoto make Hinata confess her love for Naruto and kill Neji if he didn't have plans for NH? Why did Kishimoto make Sakura admitts that she still loved  Sasuke in chapter 540, have her declare her love so many times throughout the series?

 

The Last began it's production in 2012. So, by then, Kishimoto had already decided the main couples.  Probably, he just threw the Kushina/Sakura  to keep the NaruSaku fandom interested in the manga until the end, prolonging the dramas or pairing wars between SS/NH/NS until the last chapter. 

 

Not that I agree with this stupid logic of deceiving a portion of the manga readers. But he himself admitted to using it as a form of trolling and red herrings in a interview later.

 

 

he liked doing that he clearly opposed nh in the kage summit arc he stated "sakura is the heroine not hinata"

 

I've always disagreed with this  argument that Sakura's role as a main female hinges on her ending up with Naruto.

Sakura's prominence throughout the manga and her significance as Team 7's member solidify her place as a main female of the franchise, regardless of whether she ended up alone or married to any random character.

 

Sakura remained far more important than Hinata until the final chapter of the manga written by Kishimoto.

I cannot recall Hinata having any significant role in the war aside from holding Naruto's hand and constantly mentioning his name like a robot.

• It was Sakura who unraveled White Zetsu's plan. 
• Sakura received the Byakugou and healed the entire Ninja Alliance, surpassing Tsunade. 
• Sakura saved Naruto while Hinata tripped over a rock. 
• Sakura saved Sasuke and played a crucial role against Kaguya while Hinata remained trapped alongside the other secondary characters. 
• Sakura received her character conclusion in the final volume and chapter of the manga. 
• Sakura had a Gaiden dedicated to her daughter in the manga and later saved Sasuke, Naruto, and Sarada from a powerfull enemy.
• To this day, Sakura receives far more novels, merchandise, and official events than Hinata.

 

At most, Hinata was the heroine of The Last. In the Boruto manga in trash anyway and her presence is practically nonexisten

If popularity were a criterion for defining the manga's heroine, Sakura crushed Hinata in the last popularity poll. Hinata did not become the heroine nor did she become more popular for ending up as Naruto's housewife.

Edited by Therece, 10 May 2024 - 06:43 AM.

[Therece]

 

I do wish so much that we got the same level of love and care for NaruSaku especially in the later half of Part 2 without Masashi throwing a bone to get the fandoms to wag their tails... like "OMG could it be? Could it be?"  and I'm just like thinking.... as an aspiring writer..... this is not how to win over your readers when it comes to developing romance between two characters.  I know the argument a lot of people make is "Well Naruto isn't a romance therefore it's fine we didn't get a lot of focus..."  that has always been such a poor excuse I've heard time and time again.

 

If you as the writer already know from the conception of your story that this couple is going to be canon then just focus on developing that pairing as you are telling the story you've created. 

That is definitely the #1 thing Masashi didn't understand when it came to Naruto. 

 

 Around 70% of the fandom was focused on power levels and the plot. Meanwhile, pairing fans were constantly discussing their parallels, pairings, getting embroiled in shipping wars and mocking rival fans on Tumblr, blowing things out of proportion.

 

For example, I've even encountered many NaruSaku Shippers who believe Naruto failed completely as a character because he 'lost' Sakura and moved on.    

 

Maybe if these fans had dedicated themselves more to the actual manga plot instead of talking about ship wars and pairings all the time, the shock and rage wouldn't have been so great for the losing side. Inevitably, in a love triangle dragged out for so long, some part of the fandom will feel like losers, whether they were SS, NH, or NS fans.

 

 

Anyway, this isn't exclusive to Kishimoto or Naruto manga. Ichigo and Rukia fans were outraged that Ichigo ended up with Orihime. Even today, there are shipping wars in the Avatar fandom, with Zutara and KataAang fans insulting each other and Zutara fans refusing to accept the canon.

Edited by Therece, 10 May 2024 - 03:50 AM.

[Bail o' Lies]

Right. Let's get to it. Before anything else lets look at how Sasuke and Sakura got together.

 

He had just lost his arm, reflected on what he had been doing, and admitting defeat. When Sakura appears after some pondering he apologizes to her for how he behaved. Then he leaves for his wandering to find atonement and implies to start a relationship with her.

 

Sasuke felt sorry for how he treated Sakura, so he got together with her to make up for it. Since, she was in love with him. That doesn't mean he ever fell in love with her.

 

What happened after they got together? Well, he kept on wandering to the point he spent 12 years going out of his way to not see his wife or daughter. (And as a kindness, I am only considering the manga. Where at least he didn't enter the village during those years; just going to his and Naruto's private tower for their 'rendezvous.' In the anime, even in the first arc, he was constantly in and out of the village and still avoided his family at all cost.)  After he stopped doing that, while he cares for his daughter, he never mentions his wife Sakura. Seriously, after Kodaichi left she cease to exist in the manga.

 

Now. Lets look at Sasuke's thoughts and behavior around Sakura.

 

The Bench scene he chewed her out for her rude comment.

 

Before the Chunin exam, he chewed her out for focusing on trying to get a date with him, instead of training as she had fallen behind Naruto as far as he was concern.

 

Him leaving the village, he makes it clear, he doesn't have any romantic feelings for her, while he did enjoy the time he spent on team 7, she is not that important to him, and he only cares about revenge and is willing to abandon everything to get it.

 

After leaving the village he doesn't comment often on his feelings towards Sakura, because as far as he was concerned he made it clear and ended their bond when he left the village. However, both times he meets her, he tries to kill her, and people around them note; he has no hesitation in his attempts. If people didn't stop him, he would have killed her at least three times.

 

693. Kakashi asks why Sasuke mistreats Sakura so much when she loves him. Sasuke makes it clear he doesn't love her, doesn't understand why she loves him, he himself doesn't understand what she sees in him to make her like him, and thinks she is just delusional.

 

So Sasuke doesn't hide the fact that he doesn't like Sakura and he thinks she should stop chasing after him. He doesn't say it all the time when they are teammates because its rude, but he will say his peace if he feels prompted. Once he leaves the village, he just stops caring about Sakura seeing her as nothing more than a deranged annoyance.

 

So how would if Sasuke didn't leave the village go? Well, they were only on an active team for a short amount of time before Sasuke left. The time between Sasuke leaving and the end of the War arc is about 3-4 years. While that may be three to four years to bond and fall in love...That is also, three to four years for Sasuke to get tired of constantly telling her, "leave me alone, I don't like you, and I don't want to date you." Till he finally snaps and ask her why she even likes him. She tells him about the bench scene. He tells her that it was Naruto.

 

Also Naruto held himself back for all those years due to his promise of a life time. No promise, means he is free to try and win Sakura's love.

 

The difference between Naruto and Sakura in this scenario. Is that Naruto will continue course of training and growing stronger. Sakura will likely languish as while she has the desire to grow stronger, she only got the drive after seeing Naruto injured trying to fulfill his promise to her. That doesn't happen, she likely won't go to Tsunade for training and languish in mediocrity. Which will keep making her look worse in Sasuke's eyes. Making it less likely for him to grow fond of her, but more disgusted with her.

 

So the answer is No. NS was suppose to happen but the pairing changed at the last second. Sasuke always disliked Sakura and didn't want together with her till a mandate order them to get together. Leaving or staying wouldn't have changed anything.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 15 May 2024 - 08:53 AM.

[Bail o' Lies]

I was following a pairing thread on Twitter and saw several fans mocking  NaruSaku because their relationship blossomed primarily due to Sasuke's absence.

 

Despite many NaruSaku fans hating Sasuke for being an obstacle to the couple and his return definitively crushing NS's chances.

Ironically, Sasuke was the character who helped NaruSaku the most. Not Sai, Yamato or Minato's comment about Kushina.

 

it was only during his absence that Sakura and Naruto started to grow closer, with the goal of bringing him back. The Promise of a Lifetime (POAL) was made, etc.

Along with his entire transformation into a major antagonist force trying to destroy the village, including trying to kill Sakura, which gave the NaruSaku fandom hope that Sakura would eventually abandon her feelings for him and fall for Naruto.

 

However, this wasn't meant to be. Sasuke returned to help during the war, was redeemed, apologized, and Sakura jumped into his arms, effectively ending NaruSaku.

 

Here's the question:

 

In a scenario where Sasuke stayed in the village and continued to develop his bond with Sakura without events like the Uchiha clan massacre, Orochimaru's cursed seal, Itachi's mind raping , or Tobi's revelation about the village and the Uchiha massacre.

Essentially, Part 2 without the drama of saving Sasuke and his descent into Darkness.

 

Would Sakura have still developed some kind of bond with Naruto, with Sasuke closer to her like in Part 1? Or is NaruSaku entirely dependent on Sasuke's absence and actions to change Sakura's feelings?

 

SasuSaku was a very strong couple in Part 1, while NS was almost nonexistent. It was only in Part 2 that NS started to gain traction in the story and by fandom due to Sasuke's absence and crimes.

Well, here is a question you should have been asking: "Why are they mocking a pairing that lost Ten years ago or never existed for Twenty-Five Years?" The answer is the same reason as, why most people will still talk about the Star Wars Prequels but not the Sequels?

 

The Golden Era of Naruto was when NS was the official pairing is the one people still care about while the nH/SS-Boruto era that has came since is of lower forgettable quality.

 

NS chances were crushed because outside the story people were convincing Kishimoto to switch the Heroine to Hinata because they thought Sakura was too unpopular. Sasuke had very little to do with it, beyond putting Sakura somewhere once she lost her original status. Sasuke's original purpose, beyond his role as Naruto's rival, was to be a wedge between NS so they didn't get together till the ending. He existed so they would bond without getting together till the end.

 

...Naruto and Sakura were growing closer since the moment they became team members. Do you really believe there was no development between them at all in part one?! 

 

Your Question: If the massacre never happened Sasuke would likely want to marry an Uchiha born girl like his Father did and Brother would. To expand on this further. The uchiha before the massacre would married with in the clan when given the option. This was somewhat to keep the Sharingan within the clan. We know of only one half uchiha before the massacre Itachi's fiancé. Obito was an outcast so they didn't really care about him. Sasuke, if he married outside of the clan; he would only choose a girl worthy of being brought into the clan to impress his parents. He would have written Sakura off long before they became teammates and it would not improve once they did. If she improved later on you have the problem of her already forming a bond with Naruto.

 

As for any scenarios with Sasuke beyond what I posted above. Sasuke only got together with Sakura because he felt guilty about how he treated her. That only happened after Naruto beat him up. That doesn't happen. No reflection. No getting together with Sakura out of guilt.

 

Naruto and Sakura were always developing a bond. He went from someone she openly hated to a friend she put her faith in by the end of part one. That bond didn't just form the second after Sasuke left.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 15 May 2024 - 08:51 AM.

[Bail o' Lies]

Right. I'm going to address the "SS had a better chance than NS or was stronger than it in part one," argument. NS and SS were the same at the start of part one with an equal likelihood of happening at the start. That is to say none, without growth and development. The two pairings 'mirrored' each other. How Sakura treated Naruto is how Sakura was treated by Sasuke.

 

Chapter 3: Sakura considered Naruto annoying for never leaving her alone so she could flirt with Sasuke. Sasuke thought Sakura was another annoying fangirl that won't leave him alone so he could train, but considered her personally annoying due to her orphan comments.

 

Before The Chunin exam. Sakura lectures Naruto that he shouldn't be trying to get a date with her and instead should train. Sasuke lectures Sakura that she should train instead of trying to get a date with him because she has fallen behind Naruto, the dead last of their class. 

 

Both also have something that prevents their love interest from dating them, The Forehead Compliment and Sasuke's desire for revenge.

 

The difference between the two is that Naruto trains and slowly improves himself in the eyes of Sakura, Sakura does not.

 

So by the end of part one, Sakura see Naruto as a teammate and friend she can put her faith in; while Sasuke see Sakura as just a teammate he is more than willing to abandon any bond he has with her for power.

 

Part Two when Naruto returns to the village it is made very clear he has become quite handsome. To the point Sakura both flirted with and was swooning over him till the sexy jutsu improvements were brought up. Sasuke has stop caring about Sakura so he doesn't care about how beautiful she had become.

 

Afterwards Naruto and Sakura were able to spend time together and bond. The original plan for the story was for Kakashi during the final battle to ask Sakura to think who she really loves. Then she realize that she at some point had fallen in love with Naruto. The truth about Forehead Compliment is more to make it plain Sasuke never had those type of feelings for Sakura. So she could move on from Sasuke without any lingering feelings.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 15 May 2024 - 05:26 PM.

[Illnevergiveup3]

they had development long before Sasuke left.