122 replies to this topic

[ThroughWithLove]

 

Dumb video making the rounds in the tumblr community. The premises are all correct, but the conclusions (that Kishi "planned this") are asinine.

 

Good video in the sense that it at very least can be used to gauge how Kishimoto (unintentionally) set this character up to be hated.

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 05 July 2018 - 07:41 PM.

[Bail o' Lies]

I don't want to watch that but going on what you said. It is trying to keep up the narrative "kishimoto planned this all along." When let's face it; other then a few ideas here and there, he was playing it by ear.

 

Sakura was suppose to be a tsundere that didn't like the main character but slowly over time started to understand him and fall in love with him. Some people understood this, and some people didn't. She was also not helped by the fact that not only did kishimoto not have more then a vague idea about her, he had no confidence in his ability to write her. When you don't have confidence in something you tend to avoid doing it. So, she got the short end of the stick of the three main characters. Which SP were more then willing to "fix" by focusing on their favorite character to force that character to take Sakura's place as the heroine.

 

Oh 37K people have watched it on youtube.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 08 July 2018 - 07:05 PM.

[harry4e]

Considering Kishi's come out and said he never understood why Sakura was hated, I don't think that was the case, that said Kishi has the tendency to make contradicting comments all the time, one thing I think is clear is that planning was not a strong point for Kishi,

[winter-serenade]

This video seems to be false. On of the comments summed up a contradiction of this pretty well. Kishimoto said in one of his interviews the he was surprised at how much hate Sakura had garnered. If he actually planned for her to be hated, he probably would’ve stated he was pleased instead of surprised.

[RulesofNature]

This video seems to be false. On of the comments summed up a contradiction of this pretty well. Kishimoto said in one of his interviews the he was surprised at how much hate Sakura had garnered. If he actually planned for her to be hated, he probably would’ve stated he was pleased instead of surprised.

Not to mention how he said he tried to fix things by making her prettier.

[Phantom_999]

 

Dumb video making the rounds in the tumblr community. The premises are all correct, but the conclusions (that Kishi "planned this") are asinine.

 

Good video in the sense that it at very least can be used to gauge how Kishimoto (unintentionally) set this character up to be hated.

 

SO? Nardo was called the worst scumbag. WAS THAT PLANNED???? Kaguya was written in last minute because he (Kishimoto) did not even know where he was going with the Madara conflict, so you can't say that was planned.

 

Point is, these wackos take too much at face values at "what was planned" because it has been stated and proven time and again that Kishimoto was half winging it and half being jerked around by the nose with his editors. Yahagi practically WROTE the story for him until Yahagi left left, then he was constantly switching editors and had know idea what he was doing anymore because the only consistent thing told to him was LET ME-er, Naruto, make love to that "quiet, won't talk back and make a guy feel emasculated" sex doll Hinata Hyuga.

 

Back to the topic at hand. WAS Sakura meant to be hated or is it that she is hated for NO GOOD REASON? Her personality doesn't stand out to me as more unlikable than other tsunderes, and trust me, you would THINK that other tsunderes would be hated more because they are way worse than Sakura in terms of "mean and unstable" personality, but they don't get a fraction of the crap Sakura gets and in fact are popular body pillows. Double standards much?     

Edited by Phantom_999, 18 July 2018 - 09:44 PM.

[sushi.]

Nah Kishi just gave up on her. He got so upset when fans didnt understand his intention, they didnt see forget the long-haired Sakura so he threw her away.

Mostly I think her love for Sasuke was dragged out way too much. It wasnt the most exciting thing she had to find out, that her love was shallow. We all knew it so I get people got tired of it..

[RulesofNature]

If Sakura was so hated, they wouldn't be putting her on merchandise. If she was so hated, she wouldn't have ranked as one of the series top 10 characters. Or how about the fact his wife and Naruto's VA supported her over Hinata? Fact is, I sincerely believe that the whole "Sakura was hated"-meme is something SP cooked up to try and convince Kishi to push Hinata into the spotlight. It got out in interviews and Hinata fans ran with it, all while ignoring the backlash Hinata has caused the franchise.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

If Sakura was so hated, they wouldn't be putting her on merchandise. If she was so hated, she wouldn't have ranked as one of the series top 10 characters. Or how about the fact his wife and Naruto's VA supported her over Hinata? Fact is, I sincerely believe that the whole "Sakura was hated"-meme is something SP cooked up to try and convince Kishi to push Hinata into the spotlight. It got out in interviews and Hinata fans ran with it, all while ignoring the backlash Hinata has caused the franchise.

 

EXACTLY!!!

[James S Cassidy]

I hate videos like this because they are always ONLY looking at things skin deep rather than what is going on behind the scenes.

To Kishimoto, no Sakura was not made to be hated or disliked and in many places she is not. Only in America is Sakura disliked or hated. Everywhere else they love her. It is HINATA who is disliked more because of what she had done to single handedly ruin the Naruto franchise as we know it. Kishimoto wanted to create a realistic girl who went through problems and issues like any teenager would and he tried so hard to make these characters come alive and not some simple fairy tale of "Oh my, I am a shy big boobed, sexual stereotype that when men look at me just want to jizz all over my kittens in excitement." Sakura was a real girl in a sense that she wasn't one dimensional. She wasn't superficial...at least not in the beginning and throughout her run. Kishimoto wanted the fans to see Sakura as the heroine for being a strong girl that over came everything.

These wankers NEVER go beyond the manga or the damn movies. Whenever you bring up interviews or the production of things they have no idea what the hell you are talking about. They never read a single interview of Kishimoto in their god damn life and they act so stupid. "I don't think that is true." Well, Kishimoto said it. He said it RIGHT HERE that this whole thing was one huge retcon and that his editors pushed Hinata to the forfront because of people like you who were so obsessed with your self-insert fantasies that you failed to see a real girl when you see it. YOU and your such narrow-minded uncultured views are the reason for this.

And they have the gall to sit here and say "Sakura was made to be disliked." NO. NO NO NO. If you really think that, then you are way too stupid and you are playing right into the hands of the damn corperations who manipulate things to get you to buy their garbage. It is like that used car salesman in Family Guy who sold Peter a car because "The previous owner was James Bond." Was it true? No. Even if it was, that doesn't mean the car was good. This is true here. They told you what you wanted to hear so you can feel special about it.

Instead, here we come to pull the curtain to show the puppet master pulling their strings and they live in pure and utter denial. HUGE MASSIVE DENIAL that Hinata WAS planned from the start when she obviously wasn't, that she is the herione when she obviously wasn't, and that Kishimoto seemed to be this genius writer this whole time. This man said he couldn't even defeat a concept character and didn't know anything beyond "Sasuke and Naruto are going to fight in the end" and they want me to believe that NH was planned from the very beginning?

They are more delusional than the Zutara fans still believing that they had a chance even when the authors came out and said "We had Katara and Aang planned from the very beginning. We always knew they were going to get together."

I can;t bang my head against the wall hard enough to just how purposely blind these people are. They always want proof and even when you show it them they still don't believe it. They still play denial. "Where did Kishimoto say that SS was a drug addiction pairing and he had no idea how they got together?" Right here in the NYCC 2016 interview. He says it in black and white...clear as crystal. "I don't think he meant it like that. he was just kidding."

*facepalm*

I just....I can't even....I have to go lie down. I don't want to live here anymore. Someone stop the ride I want to get off. I can't stand it. Between third wave feminism and prejudice against white people...this world has gone to places where I am ashamed of the human race. And videos like this just don't help the cause. People too proud of their obvious bias to know any better. You try to make everything better to show how things can be amazing, but people just don't want to do anything...


This is why I am casting my vote now.

 

Melodramatic? Absolutly, but...that is all the word is nowadays.

 

[RulesofNature]

Sakura works well from a thematic perspective on Naruto.

 

Naruto, in the beginning, was a loud idiot who pretty much demanded people acknowledge him and his awesomeness. He was more selfish, more flawed during this time and everyone ignored him. He only wanted to be Hokage so everyone would know how great he was. Sakura, just like most of the village, just saw him as an annoying troublemaker.

 

Which he was. Seriously, anyone would treat this kid like crap because of the way he acted. But Sakura got to know Naruto, her opinion on him shifting as he matured. Naruto grew up, and even without becoming Hokage was obtaining the recognition and respect he once wanted.

 

Sakura was meant to be Naruto's prize, questionable as this may be. But it's less that he won her and more he won her over as they grew a tight bond with one another. Two people falling in love with each other.

 

Hinata doesn't work for this. She "acknowledged" him back before his character growth started, his "reward" for acting like the complete git he was in the beginning. The fact they try to make this "the most important bond in Naruto's life" because "she was there for him (while he freely admits he was so lonely he could have went down the dark path so many of his foes did)" only serve as undermine the plot of the story. 

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Sakura works well from a thematic perspective on Naruto.

 

Naruto, in the beginning, was a loud idiot who pretty much demanded people acknowledge him and his awesomeness. He was more selfish, more flawed during this time and everyone ignored him. He only wanted to be Hokage so everyone would know how great he was. Sakura, just like most of the village, just saw him as an annoying troublemaker.

 

Which he was. Seriously, anyone would treat this kid like crap because of the way he acted. But Sakura got to know Naruto, her opinion on him shifting as he matured. Naruto grew up, and even without becoming Hokage was obtaining the recognition and respect he once wanted.

 

Sakura was meant to be Naruto's prize, questionable as this may be. But it's less that he won her and more he won her over as they grew a tight bond with one another. Two people falling in love with each other.

 

Hinata doesn't work for this. She "acknowledged" him back before his character growth started, his "reward" for acting like the complete git he was in the beginning. The fact they try to make this "the most important bond in Naruto's life" because "she was there for him (while he freely admits he was so lonely he could have went down the dark path so many of his foes did)" only serve as undermine the plot of the story. 

 

Yeah, the fact too that Hinata also doesn't know anything about Naruto while Sakura learned EVERYTHING pretty much about him also speaks volumes about how her "winning" Naruto doesn't work for the story too and undermines everything Kishimoto wanted to work on, no matter how much he tries to run damage control for it.

[Bail o' Lies]

Sakura works well from a thematic perspective on Naruto.

 

Naruto, in the beginning, was a loud idiot who pretty much demanded people acknowledge him and his awesomeness. He was more selfish, more flawed during this time and everyone ignored him. He only wanted to be Hokage so everyone would know how great he was. Sakura, just like most of the village, just saw him as an annoying troublemaker.

 

Which he was. Seriously, anyone would treat this kid like crap because of the way he acted. But Sakura got to know Naruto, her opinion on him shifting as he matured. Naruto grew up, and even without becoming Hokage was obtaining the recognition and respect he once wanted.

 

Sakura was meant to be Naruto's prize, questionable as this may be. But it's less that he won her and more he won her over as they grew a tight bond with one another. Two people falling in love with each other.

 

Hinata doesn't work for this. She "acknowledged" him back before his character growth started, his "reward" for acting like the complete git he was in the beginning. The fact they try to make this "the most important bond in Naruto's life" because "she was there for him (while he freely admits he was so lonely he could have went down the dark path so many of his foes did)" only serve as undermine the plot of the story. 

Not only that but apparently Hinata is so important that in her presence any other bond Naruto has must fade away completely. In the last, she was outright competing against Naruto's mother through their scarves, and when she won Naruto had to throw his mother's scarf into the void of space.

 

Yeah, the fact too that Hinata also doesn't know anything about Naruto while Sakura learned EVERYTHING pretty much about him also speaks volumes about how her "winning" Naruto doesn't work for the story too and undermines everything Kishimoto wanted to work on, no matter how much he tries to run damage control for it.

It's funny that in the last Hinata still did nothing to win Naruto other then exist; it was up to the circumstances, the genjutsu, and honestly mainly Sakura to put them together. So it wasn't as much as she "won" Naruto as much as she was given Naruto without any real effort on her part. 

[Tiller]

I understand why she's hated, she didn't have a real character arc. Or to put it more correctly, her arc was designed in the end so she didn't change one bit from when she was a young girl. I don't like her character as she ultimately is in canon for the same reason now.

 

Did Kishi plan it? No. But he does seem to see her only threw the eyes of making Sasuke matter more in the series, and the follow up show (which to be fair i don't watch/read).

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

Nope. Sakura was never made to be hated.

 

It's all been made clear that the studio and manga house interfered with her character and forced Kishi's hand. The majority of the creators have an immense abhorrence for Sakura do to the leading female role from the start of Part 2. This was the reason why--despite being the heroine--Kishi could not portrayed her character the way he wanted and was forced to be more of a supportive type of character throughout the remainder of Part 2. 

 

Unlike everyone mostly believed that Kishi only cares about Sasuke, I declined to believe that. It's all thanks to Shuiesha, SP and Yahagi (unintentionally) that Kishi had to drop the ball on Sakura's character and he went with Sasuke. Kishi mentions I believe twice that Naruto and Sasuke are him and his younger brother and in that post chapter are like him and his younger brother Seishi. If I remember correctly, Kishi describe himself being Naruto while Sasuke is younger brother (something like that). This is all the reason behind the NaruSasu bromance. 

 

If Kishi, originally planned Sakura to be hated. She would never been the heroine much less have an Sand Village explosive arc and development in the first place. Lets face the fact when they the "creators" yanked the roots of NS out from its foundation. They ruined the "core" of the manga. For instance: Rock Lees love for Sakura never had closure and was forgotten as if it never existed and that come with reasoning to why he saw Naruto as a rival. And the hype Naruto versus Dadara Part 2 never took place and was entire plot was discarded never to be mentioned ever (even after Dadara's resurrection) again.

 

Why I bring up Dadara because he has enmity  with Naruto and Sakura. Naruto took his arm. Sasori was his partner and Sakura was responsible for his death. That's plot for the main female lead to shine. Instead we have this fiasco of them two chasing Sasuke all the kitten time. Naruto and Sakura's full attention should have been on Akatsuki. Instead of seeing her play the supportive role like healing and watched Naruto training and concocting chakra pills for him, we would have seen her go hunting for Akatsuki (even join the Hidan hunt with InoShikaCho and Asuma) members and continue her training (even under kakashi). She would have contribute immensely  in the war against Akatsuki that she would easily be on their radar.

 

In the manga, they already acknowledge Naruto and Sasuke as one of the Three Legendary Sanin. But they never acknowledge Sakura's background of even acknowledge her presence, despite being another Sanin disciple or student (This is why I don't put the blame on Kishi 100% of him being an sexist and among other things).

 

The plot thickens when Dadara retaliates. Sakura gets into trouble either captured or presumed killed by Darara to lure Naruto and kakashi or just Naruto into a trap. It's like killing two birds with one stone for Dadara. Of course he's nothing but a stepping stool for NS romance and that is why I believe the creators did not want Sakura to continuing walking down this path after her battle with Sasori and some how manage to get Kishi to focus on Sasuke.

 

As I mentioned above about Yahagi. It was also his fault foo because he claimed that if they focus on Sasuke will bring in more fans. That was like steroids for this franchise. It help passed Oda's OP but imploded in the end and now it is now where near its prime as of 2009. The bottle line is that her hatred is solely based on the heroine positioned that Hinata's fanbase and the majority of the creators wanted Hinata to be in Sakura's shows and they got their wish.

 

The irony of it that Kishi had a make over with Hinata's character to fit the description of his wife physical with the short hair, opai and Sakura like slim body. If pro-enders want to complain about Hinata having no boobs. Then justice served us well in the end. 

Edited by Konoha'sCrimsonFox, 08 July 2018 - 01:45 PM.

[Bail o' Lies]

Most of that is right.

 

I'm not sure about if that was him reducing her breast as much as it was his successor unable to draw those melon, and therefor gave her a more realistic bust sizes. There is only really one new character that can be-considered "stack," and her bust is still very reasonable.

 

The switching of their personality traits is more SP's doing in Boruto. They want to make Hinata more like, and Sakura less; so start giving Hinata some of Sakura's personality and vice versa.

[Moon_Girl]

She was never written to be disliked. Kishimoto didn't really know what he was doing, but he wrote her to reflect real girls. She grew out of that immature phase and became an awesome girl.

Honestly, it's fact she's pretty universally loved. The only place she has a huge anti-group is the western fandom. Western culture and tropes are vastly different from Japan's and that's why Sakura is loved in Japan, but hated in America. Also a lot of kids started with Naruto as their first anime. So age and maturity played a role. Thinking on it some more, I think the Western fandom was a huge factor in killing the series. Especially since the biased editors used American Hinatard videos to support their point. "Forget the fact our Japanese fandom loves Sakura over Hinata, and loves NaruSaku look at what America loves!!!" I really wish Naruto never left Japan. :/
I was watching the series before it touched American shores, so I would have totally been fine.

Edited by Moon_Girl, 08 July 2018 - 04:20 PM.

[jak123]

She was never written to be disliked. Kishimoto didn't really know what he was doing, but he wrote her to reflect real girls. She grew out of that immature phase and became an awesome girl.

Honestly, it's fact she's pretty universally loved. The only place she has a huge anti-group is the western fandom. Western culture and tropes are vastly different from Japan's and that's why Sakura is loved in Japan, but hated in America. Also a lot of kids started with Naruto as their first anime. So age and maturity played a role. Thinking on it some more, I think the Western fandom was a huge factor in killing the series. Especially since the biased editors used American Hinatard videos to support their point. "Forget the fact our Japanese fandom loves Sakura over Hinata, and loves NaruSaku look at what America loves!!!" I really wish Naruto never left Japan. :/
I was watching the series before it touched American shores, so I would have totally been fine.

Wasn't Sakura supposed to be based on his wife? No wonder his wife liked her so much. I would have loved to be a fly on the wall when she confronted him about messing up the ending considering she hated it.

Edited by jak123, 08 July 2018 - 05:43 PM.

[Moon_Girl]

Wasn't Sakura supposed to be based on his wife? No wonder his wife liked her so much. I would have loved to be a fly on the wall when she confronted him about messing up the ending considering she hated it.

I don't remember if Kishimoto said it specifically. I believe he must have since she got super pissed at him over the ending and he tried to comfort her by saying she was like Hinata, but she didn't believe him. 
I do remember that even other people (I don't remember if it was Jump staff or who) but they said his wife looked like Sakura.

[Young Kubrick]

I swear, people who hate Sakura saying "she's useless" or "she's abusive to Naruto" or whatever are getting more and more desperate to "prove" how their blind hate is right. They're not even pretending to give actual legit criticism anymore