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RulesofNature

Member Since 25 Nov 2017
Offline Last Active Sep 05 2022 02:39 AM

#987704 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by RulesofNature on 29 August 2022 - 01:11 AM

Hopes isn't really lighter and softer. The director said that they didn't want to invalidate the stories of Houses, so the three routes in Hopes aren't exactly the best case scenarios. Dimitri's mental stability doesn't shatter, sure, but that was a major part of his growth. In his route in Hopes, he becomes a warrior king rather than being given the title of savior king by the masses. Claude's route is the antithesis of how he grew in Verdant Wind and while Edelgard might seem nicer in this game, changes made to the scenario undermine the idea that she's after anything but conquest and her army is incredibly brutal as they kill everyone who doesn't bend the knee to her. Rhea is supposedly more supported in Japan than Edelgard, but two out of the three routes end with Rhea being dead. Byleth is also popular, but they got sidelined for the new MC and didn't get any sort of arc (unless the player isn't able to recruit them, then they become an antagonist who kills an ally). And all of these routes effectively end on cliff-hangers, never coming to a real conclusion.

 

In Japan, Claude's fans are pissed they gave him a villain route and turned him into Edelgard. Dimitri is the most popular lord because of his character arc, and him not losing allies but at the same time never becoming as good as he could have been is seen as an insult. They're upset how the game tries to shill Edelgard even more by making her softer, while Rhea got completely screwed over. They're angry because unlike most musou games, these routes are being treated as just as canonical. They're upset because Edelgard and Claude's imperialism isn't presented as bad, Chinese fans even saying someone on the writing team must be a sympathizer of the Japanese far-right. They're also calling out releasing this in light of the situation in Ukraine, especially since the same studio put the Advance Wars rerelease on indefinite hiatus because of it.

 

As for the liberties? The English version of Houses made Claude more jokey. In Japan, Rhea emotes and it's heartbreaking in Crimson Flower while in English, her VA was directed to always sound like she's just barely holding back snapping. Edelgard's voice sounds cuter in Japan, because her being the red emperor is supposed to be a huge shock. In English, Edelgard sounds a lot more matter of fact, with her cutesy moments feeling like the shock (or in essence, they reversed her gap moe). There were lines that were removed like Edelgard using an information campaign to control her people, or altered.




#987699 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by RulesofNature on 27 August 2022 - 06:31 PM

And this is why Ive grown to love Tolkiens works even more as the man put his whole life into making a whole history of Arda.

This even goes with the tale of Beren and Lúthien which is a very sweet but also very sad. I wont go into but this shows how better Tolkien is at doing romance.

The sad fact is Kishi unlike Tolkien who told the Natizs to kitten off in his own way look it up on YouTube it is funny had more balls than Kishi ever will.

Even though I can not get through anything by Tolkien I do respect his work for these kinds of reasons. You can tell the care he put into his craft which, honestly, sometimes I wish Moorcock put that same level into his works at times.

 

And as for the VAs, once again it's always going to be a matter of professionalism. Unless there's a lot of backlash to the ending, like Gundam SEED Destiny (with Shinn's VA) or Gundam IBO (McGillis) levels, it's frowned upon in the industry to talk smack about the production as it will be seen as disrespectful to everyone else who worked on it. Until the franchise is dead and buried, best we can hope for is off-the-cuff comments.




#987189 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by RulesofNature on 06 June 2022 - 05:49 PM

Honestly, YTV had Dragonball the first arc of Dragonball on when I was a kid and I loved that show. When I first learned about Z through Fox Kids airing the Saiyan arc, I didn't know who any of the other characters from Dragonball were, and the fact it killed off characters made me think worse of it. As a child, I thought it was edgelord stuff, even before I had ever heard that term. Then I started developing the same criticisms of the series a lot of people have years later when the Namek/Cell arcs finally came over.

 

I like Dragonball, I don't like Z anywhere near as much (but love TFS's version).




#987178 The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread

Posted by RulesofNature on 05 June 2022 - 02:49 AM

And shows how Studio Pierrot didn't give a damn about what Kishimoto had originally wanted to do, given we see some hints of it in the long haul, like how Sakura and Karin reacted when Naruto and Sasuke were dying as well as how if Hinata was planned to get together with Naruto, she just gives up when she trips on a rock and collapses while she still had TONS of Kurama's chakra going for her, even begging the dead Neji to save Naruto!

I mean, I have a colleague who is a Bleach fan and will talk about how the studio messed up Orihime's characterization early on and how this fed into the shipping wars. I used to be obsessed with Rumiko Takahashi's works, but there's no denying what happens when they get adapted for anime. Just look at this http://ranmarelated....ween-manga.html . Detective Conan, where they had to bring back Ai's sister just to kill her and act as motivation because they changed the ending to her case. Or there was Hideaki Anno adapting His and Her Circumstances, changing the plot halfway through to the point the original author wanted him to fired and he quit as a response. Not to mention other anime that change endings or even have one while the manga is still ongoing.

 

Makes me shudder to think what Dungeon Meshi, Shield Hero or Hamefura would have been like if they had anime with filler.

 

It just makes me think Naruto is the poster-child for a type of anime that just doesn't get made anymore because it's too expensive to do so. Back then, they could get away with these kinds of things because...well, they could justify them by saying they're selling to more general audiences. But now, as the industry becomes more oversatsurated and catering to more niche interests, arranging for 50 episodes to cover a series or multi-year anime for the most part aren't viable.  Naruto was everything that was wrong with anime back then, it's problems ones that have mostly died out...except for in it's spin-off.




#987129 The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread

Posted by RulesofNature on 27 May 2022 - 04:23 PM

 

Well, I was originally a NH fan at first. Like many NH fans, I thought Sakura was too mean, but after about the time of Heaven and Earth bridge I changed. The original reason was because Naruto and Hinata seemed like an idealistic romance, but after a while was way too fake to really be meaningful. 

You think you want an idealistic romance and instead what you really want is real romance. 

Hinata was too idealistic and created too many issues. With that being said, her last true self was her Pain Arc Confession. Pain didn't just die, her entire character was killed and what was left was a zombie that said "Naruto-kun" instead of brains. 

No amount of "scenes" of them together helps them. It just feel shoehorned.

 

At the time of the ending, I just didn't care. Naruto had long since went downhill with it's war arc, and I just had a sense of apathy towards it. Like, introducing new characters in the manga only to fuel filler episodes in the anime I didn't watch? Don't care. The Uzumaki clan being treated like this legendary faction intimately tied to Konoha yet no one had ever even hinted at such a thing beforehand? Lame. Ditching the villain that you've built up for one pulled out of your ass because you realize you made him too powerful to stop? Insulting Kishimoto, insulting. Past messages and morals being thrown in the garbage for out of nowhere powerups? You get the idea.

 

The last third of Naruto is, quite frankly, atrocious in terms of characters, worldbuilding, even the powerlevels going to DBZ-levels. Remember the fight between Kakashi and Zabuza, which was a match of high ranking Jonin? Looks tame compared to how the series ended up. Naruto was just a cash cow, one I was happy to see over.

 

Then I heard about The Last, and what it did. How Hinata was made out to be the most important person in Naruto's life, undermining his relationship with his emo boyfriend and wrecking his character. That is what made me hate Hinata.




#986998 The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread

Posted by RulesofNature on 11 May 2022 - 04:51 PM

 

The more I look deeper the worse it looks now. Naruto is extremely naïve, altruistic, stupid, and does not understand what he is truly talking about. Does he really think that every single person other than him would seek revenge and HE is the only one who knows better? The other Konoha KNEW that Sasuke was dangerous. They all knew and he essentially ignored all the people he so called "friend."

So you scold the good guys for wanting justice for the crimes done to them, but when a bad guy wants to kill or enslave everyone then we should not do anything, but try and understand them; pat them on the head; and tell them it is not their fault?

Naruto is the WORST hero ever.  I thought Goku was bad, but Goku is just dumb. Naruto actively thinks he is a good person whole damning the actual good people around him. 

The only think I know at this point is is that I can kill his family, rape his wife, and destroy his village, but as long as I don't go after Sasuke he will forgive me.

 

Makes me wonder if Kakashi knew the whole time that Itachi was a good guy. Would explain so much.

God.

 

In my time away, I played TLoU and these kinds of arguments are always so, so, it's like the people writing them don't understand how people actually work but want to say this is how people should be. That Ellie was wrong in 2 for seeking revenge on Abby, that Abby shouldn't face repercussions hunting down and murdering Joel. That a character players cared about is brutally killed by someone we don't know, then the game tries to make players care for her and that she's a good person, but she still comes across as unlikable and even horrifying with how she treats her friends and allies. But Ellie is supposed to be wrong for not walking away.

 

You know, back in the 80's Gundam's creator, Yoshiyuki Tomino, created a series called Xabungle. In that series, the MC was seeking revenge against the person who killed his parents in a world where people are just expected to let slights go after three days. People treat the MC like he doesn't make sense, but the point was that the "forgive after three days" rule was meant to be challenged when it was set up by the ancient people as a test for the people they created

 

 

It just really feels like modern writers don't understand people anymore. Like again with Tomino, he said with regards to modern anime boys are written nowadays as always reaching out for the girl's hand, when in his day they were written as reaching for their crotches. That romance has been desexualized, ironic considering how more sexualized modern anime is. That pacifism is the ideal, and the best way to be pacifist is to fight for what you believe in while not killing people except when you decide you have no choice but to kill people (as RE:Creators put it, that is no different from killing for fun because you're making a conscious decision to kill someone). That beating up bad guys is the best way to make them see the error of their ways (again, RE:Creators says that doing so will just make them more likely to dislike you. Man, that show was great before it went up it's own ass.)

 

Or maybe it's just what Miyazaki said, the problem is that these stories are being created by people (otaku) who don't like looking at other people. They like looking at anime characters.




#986553 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by RulesofNature on 28 February 2022 - 02:23 AM

Naruto was a Relic; what's Boruto that copies it?

Bootleg toy found in a dollar store? Like a transformer made with cheap plastic with the head of Woody from Toy Story?




#986447 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by RulesofNature on 19 February 2022 - 01:18 AM

Yep, all he cares for is Sasuke, well I don't care Naruto as a series can burn, right now I don't care I have better things to fight for since the stupid SJW's and the Woke are now after Tolkien and his work. And boy did they pick the wrong fanbase the kitten with.

As a Moorcock fanboy, I'm a little glad he's become obscure.

 

But yeah, LotR (I can never get through the first book and have never attempted the movies. Both are on my to-do list). Wow. Of all the targets they could have went after, there's few as well-respected as LotR.




#986437 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by RulesofNature on 18 February 2022 - 04:28 PM

The kittening kitten is this kittening kitten!? Holy kitten this is kittening nuts that anyone thought this was a kittening good idea.

 

I'm just going to say this now. This shows the writers...really don't understand how people actually work. Naruto at this point, he's not written as a human being. He's written as a very, very flawed ideal. There's a difference, and kitten like this makes it impossible to emphasize with him.

 

You know, when SRW called out Kira for his actions they managed to humanize him. They had him admit he was looking away from the consequences and what he was actually doing, because it made fighting easier that way. Rather than the supposed paragon that Fukuda created, he was presented as a flawed human being and one in desperate need for character development to grow up. They also derail the destruction of some space colonies that happened as a consequence of Kira's actions, because SRW knows that there is no defending that loss of life while Kira and co. act like they did nothing wrong. Kira could be made into an actual character with the proper care.

 

Naruto is a lost cause.




#986242 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by RulesofNature on 31 January 2022 - 05:25 PM

 

 

Allow me to share a revelation I've had. For all of his bluster about "with great power comes great responsibility," Naruto Uzumaki is one of the most irresponsible superheroes ever.

He never learns from his mistakes, never takes into consideration how his life as Hokage affects everybody else. Now, some would say that's the core concept of the character, the constant struggle between the job and the man. But he never actually gives any consideration to the man, preferring to make excuses about it. He disappoints people around like his son all the time because "something more important was happening as Hokage". But instead of trying to find ways to balance his two lives properly, he will go out of his way to make excuses for it and gets drunk. he places more importance on being Hokage than he should distance himself from relationships that would hurt that. If he places more emphasis on being a family man, he needs to sacrifice his time as Hokage. Now that's not always going to be the case for everyone in the real world. But Naruto never actually changes as a result of his actions. He just makes the same mistakes over and over. During Chapter 687 He called Obito a mass murderer the coolest guy ever. Forget if you want Naruto married to either Sakura or Hinata. This is the moment Naruto's character was kittened. Obito murdered his family, Destroyed the village and was the reason Kohona was in a war.

Another rant is that he missed his daughter's birthday and his wife Hinata never called him out on it. Now he was a young dumb kid by starting out but he was supposed to change as a character but he hasn't. He takes more responsibility as Hokage than he does as a family man. But hey, maybe that's just the reasoning of a jaded individual looking at this stupid-ass Manga in hindsight. Of course I don't want Naruto to stop being Hokage. What I want is for him to be written like a goddamn adult already! But the writers and Kishi and Studio Periott wouldn't let that happen. Naruto is just escapist fantasy to them. And they don't want the escapism of Naruto stopping bad guys and going home. And that's just hilarious considering the fact that Naruto was supposed to be a relatable character who was an orphan and life sucked and he became a father and make his kids' lives suck. He was supposed to relate to the reader. But the truth is that the reader has grown up. The reader got married, had kids, has relatives that die and they have to move on. The reader changed... but Naruto has not.

You know there are fans wanting a Naruto reboot to fix the ending... It's not happening it's just fans wishing but you know what? Maybe they should reboot Naruto. But you know what? Maybe they should reboot Naruto. After all, if the creative team isn't gonna give him a happy family... then why does he have one in the first place?

 

Linkara rant aside, I feel like there's a bigger issue to dig into here.

 

What was Naruto really about? What messages was it trying to pass on? Because on that front the work has always been a mess. Growth and maturity are thrown out the window whenever it's convenient, something we saw as far back as the beginning of the Chunin exam where even Kakashi talks about how things went back to normal after the Zabuza incident. The growth there did not stick. The idea of bonds is nonsensical considering how shallow the bond between Sasuke and Naruto actually was, and that's not even going into The Last making Naruto's most important bond the one he had with someone he never interacted with. Naruto does not learn how to lead to become Hokage, he never passes the Chunin exam that would have shown him reliable enough to shoulder more responsibility. Instead, it all becomes some social Darwinist BS where he's just soooo strong (Hell, I think the reason why so much Japanese media nowadays is calling out this might makes right mentality is because of how prevalent it used to be in shonen, with Naruto being one of the definitive examples), and he's just given power up after power up to detract from the idea of hard work beating natural talent, The truth doesn't matter either as Itachi is still left labelled a criminal, the Hyuuga family slavery is forgotten, Naruto's forgiveness isn't based on empathy but rather him seeing some aspect of himself in his enemies, he doesn't even challenge the system, and he raised a son who is in love with the idea of being Konoha's black ops doing jobs the village can not officially be tied to. And now to top it all off, he's become a crappy dad.

 

The story of Naruto has no real meaning, whatever messages the series could have had sold out a long time ago in order to milk it relentlessly. The series has nothing it really takes seriously, while leaving behind a slew of unfortunate implications. And when you think about what messages it might have passed on to the reader, that's a scary thought even beyond that what Hinata does is somehow considered love.




#986115 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by RulesofNature on 14 January 2022 - 10:04 PM

The thing is, South Korea banned Japanese cultural products until around 1998 iirc. Anime, manga, TV shows, books, it was illegal to import them from Japan, in large part due to South Korea's history with the country. Even after the ban was lifted, there are still restrictions in place. If things are considered too Japanese, or seen as too insulting to South Korea (like Heltalia's depiction of the country), then they will still be banned or censored. Samurai often fall victim to this, such as Samurai Sentai Shinkenger being skipped over for this reason, or Mitsurugi being replaced with a character called Arthur in Soul Calibur

 

That and the Japanese refuse to admit to the things they did as Imperial Japan and apologize for it. I mentioned this in the past, but a lot of the people who were in charge of Imperial Japan also were in charge of it post-WWII. People who should have been tried for war crimes and yakuza were put into power, in large by the West to help stop the spread of communism,and because of that their culture can't discredit those individuals. After all, they built modern Japan. This has led to the Japanese being pretty damn ignorant of what they did during those years, instead clinging to a victim narrative of "America made us do things," and leads to the calls of the far right there to reinterpret the constitution and remilitarize.

 

Like, there was that one isekai where the MC is implied to be a reincarnation of a real Japanese prince who committed war crimes in Manchuria, killing 3000 Chinese. The book was picked up, sold, adapted into a manga and was going to be an anime before people outside of Japan caught on and called them out on it. Then the author's racist (because Japanese people can be really racist) tweets against the Chinese was found out, leading to the franchise to get cancelled.

 

So, there is some real baggage here.




#986058 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by RulesofNature on 31 December 2021 - 07:14 PM

Hamefura wasn't baiting people. If it doesn't say its yaoi or yuri then it is normally a straight relationship. The light novel is about the fantasy of a woman being beloved by all due to her quirkiness.

Yeah, I know. I know that in Japan it's marketed as a shojo series, and it's not marketed as yuri either. The problem is a lot of people liked the yuri ships and how Katarina's harem had both genders in it. But people latched onto the fact even girls were into Katarina, to the point they're releasing an anthology manga that focuses on Katarina's relationships with the girls in the US. So, I would say that there's a very good indication that the Western publishers want to use this to their advantage.

 

...Except Katarina identifies as straight. And while people love Mary as a lesbian, the later books start pointing to her hooking up with Alan. There's even stuff about Maria hooking up with one of her capture targets from Fortune Lover 2, while Sophia puts everything into helping her brother win Katarina's heart.

 

It all reminds me of this trope in Japanese media, where girls date other girls in their teens as "practice." They're not actually lesbians or bisexual, it's them being young and immature and when they get older they'll stop this practice and date/marry men. Kinda like how tomboys are expected to adopt more feminine hobbies and interests as they get older, or for boys to stop liking sweet things. This is the same trope that made people accuse Fire Emblem Fates of having gay conversion undertones with Soleil.

 

This is why I think Hamefura is setting itself up for backlash. People want it to reflect Western values, when in reality it's a Japanese franchise made for the Japanese. It's kinda like how Fortune Lover is supposed to be this big hit in the series, whereas the Western fandom rakes it over the coals and compares it to other otome isekai that deconstruct that exact same scenario. I think that there are things about Japanese or Asian culture that would make it easier for them to digest (like I recall this one Korean otome isekai that talked about how if a guy cheats on his girlfriend, it's her fault because she drove him into the arms of another. Thankfully, Beware of the Villainess calls the everloving kitten out of it). but people would really do well to chill out and try to understand these things rather than claiming the Japanese need to be properly educated or some crap.




#986054 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by RulesofNature on 31 December 2021 - 02:10 AM

Again, funny how that DIDN’T apply to Naruto. Even regarding how they wanted it to be the The International sales Juggernaut they were hoping for, japan counted for at least 95% plus of the sales in the entire run of the franchise. I seriously think all of the Executives that LOVED Hinata heard what they wanted to hear from her overseas fanatics. They didn’t actually care how big Hinata was over seas, they just wanted to hear worshipping of her from like minded individuals I’m sure

 

I could almost give Naruto some slack. Love it or hate it, it was a major force in bringing anime and manga to the mainstream in the West. I mean, Gundam SEED was a massive success in Japan only for it to horribly flop in the US (in part because they censored it in order to market it to kids there like they did in Japan). Even One Piece, Shonen Jumps biggest hit, had nowhere near the same appeal in the West (likely because of censorship as well). Naruto managed to be popular, not only selling but helping sell other properties for SJ.
 

Note I said almost. Like, early on it was understandable. Anime was just taking off in the West like never before, manga was being published unflipped, and Japanese companies had no idea how to approach it. But Naruto ran for 15 years, times change and even the notoriously traditional Japanese companies should have seen this. The fact they were trying to get back to some faded glory days, glory days where the market they were chasing was mostly pirating it, just shows how little they actually knew about the situation.

 

I don't waste tears for the stupid, have better things to do with my time.

 

(and I swear, hearing Gundam fans say "IBO was made to appeal to the US" or wanting the upcoming Witch from Mercury to appeal to their sensibilities just says how little they understand the industry. But at least it's not the ticking timebomb that they've turned Hamefura into. I mean, they're releasing the yuri-bait anthology book when the series is going more and more hetro to the point where they're teasing Mary and Alan hooking up? Yeah, that's not going to be pretty.)




#986026 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by RulesofNature on 27 December 2021 - 04:52 PM

Regarding the Retsuden novel, I've seen some points being made that they are super popular outside Japan, that they have been in top for sales on Amazon and Rakuten something something so that's why it's popular and in-demand.

 

Now I don't know what to say because I haven't been following the topic too closely. But even so, shouldn't this amount to something towards Boruto's popularity as a franchise?

 

From what I'm seeing, it keeps decreasing?

 

The way I've seen it, it's an attempt to somehow keep the franchise afloat by catering more to SS because from what it seems the NH family doesn't sell that much. 

 

Meh, anyway...

One of the thing about Japanese media companies is that they focus their attention on the domestic market, not the international one. A series can do good outside of Japan, but unless the Japanese are biting then they won't care. Like, think of Metroid. The series was riding high on the Gamecube with the Prime games as well as the GBA ones. At least, it was outside of Japan whereas Metroid was more niche there. This resulted in Metroid Other M, a game that was trying to make the franchise more appealing to Japanese audiences but put it into a coma instead. 

 

Japanese are going to make products for the Japanese, first and foremost. It's a long-standing mentality, part of why we have creators trying to fight attempts by Western distributors to tone down certain content (usually sexualization of minors). Hell, Toei refused to bow to Disney back in the day when Disney requested them tone down the violence in Sentai (Disney owned Power Rangers at the time), resulting in Disney trying to axe the franchise. Not to mention, cracking down on fansubs this year (they used to be pretty lenient due to how fansubs give them an international market, but then people kept plastering links on social media and put their copyright in danger. Of the two big ones, I thinkTV-Nihon is gone while Over-time is still translating sentai, just that they're not making mention of it on their site and expect people to just go to Nyaa).

 

Considering how NH and SS were done to appeal to international markets and ended up costing the franchise the domestic one, the Retsuden novels are probably not doing that much to help Boruto.




#986010 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by RulesofNature on 26 December 2021 - 03:59 AM

Just to clarify,  Both Overlord and Shield Hero were originally Web novels before they became Light Novels(Web Novels being considered a rough draft for novelists).

I think this just goes to show how the industry has changed. I mean, Shield Hero and others like it gain popularity before they are even being sold. The writers find an audience, which in turn allows them to adapt their work into a sellable product. They do this without any professional editors, guys saying that they need to do this and that in order to get it to sell. I mean, sure, you have cases like Shield Hero toning down the edgelord stuff from the web novel and adding arcs that stretch multiple light novel volumes (and trying to avoid the original ending fans disliked). Or Hamefura going from a parody of the "otome game-isekai" genre to the point where it's continued past where the web novel ended, has been downplaying the female love interests (though Katarina has always said she was straight), and is now at the point where Katarina is an honest to god otome game protagonist in our world with an upcoming game...You get the idea.

 

see:

 

Compare this to how Naruto started out. He was supposed to be the child of the fox until Kishi's editor told him to make him human. Then Kishi was told to add a rival and love interest. Then Kishi was told to skip the world building and team bonding in order to do a tournament arc. All Kishi brought was a very basic idea, one that WSJ turned into a vastly different project that sold gangbusters when it found it's audience. Even in the end, they were telling Kishi to set Naruto up with Hinata and lay the groundwork for Boruto.

 

But the point I got lost in getting to is I'd argue that with oldies like Naruto, it's about attracting an audience first and foremost via the guidance of editors, whereas a lot of modern projects fueled by the internet allow creators to have more freedom as they brought an audience with them to the editor.