54175 replies to this topic

[TouKen4Life3g]

What’s your opinion about this NH argument :

 

Naruto has never really loved Sakura because :

 

-He didn’t defend her against Rock Lee when he was sending kisses to her at the chuunin exam...

-He let Sakura fighting Sasori alone (even if Chiyo was there) JUSTso he can follow Gaara’s dead body...

-He followed Orochimaru at the bridge, while Sakura was falling in the canyon instead of helping her...

-Naruto never said i twas for Sakura that he wanted to bring Sasuke back...

 

And here’s the best part :

-Sakura is more distant from Naruto in part 2 and even their common will to bring Sasuke back doesn’t make them closer...

 

So ? What can you say to counter this ?

I feel like posting an image of Sasuke laughing or Obito laughing. But you know, I will be honest with you, the more I have to debate, the more I feel like I understand more why I even like this pairing. So I guess I'll answer quick.

 

1) Why? Naruto is not with Sakura or anything at that time. Heck, it's best to be jealous from far distance, not "Who the hell he think he is? I'm going to knock him out." Heck, you got one in the later scene when Sakura gave Lee a gratitude. Or even Sai. Or even the latest event with Sasuke. The funny thing is it was the first time that Naruto shows jealousy in front of Sakura, which she actually told him it's not a big deal, but if he does dwell on it, then she will be Hokage. Tease but nonetheless, Naruto shouldn't let some stuff get in the way.

 

2) Oh yeah, sure, because they know Gaara was dead. Wait, they didn't. They just know that he was there but don't want to jump to conclusion that he truly dies. While they know that once extracted it's over, that doesn't mean they have to be like "Well, he's dead, guys." After all, Naruto trusted Sakura to cure Gaara, even though in the end, he has died. It's more like learning that Chiyo's words about Jinchuuriki is true. Also, why not let Sakura do her thing? She can handle it. I would be displease if he just stays there and actually said, "No, you're too weak for this." The War arc made sense because she just used a lot of power to heal Naruto, so naturally he thought she needs rest. But she is a person who can keep going and just keep exhausting chakra, though luckily, her seal finally appeared.

 

3) The seal got the best of Naruto. Next...

 

4) It was already clear that Naruto was going after Sasuke for himself and pretty much Team 7, but Sakura was in pain, which this hurts Naruto. Therefore, in order to keep her smile and happy, he promised her, which again, he didn't know to, but like Lee said, because of what Naruto presented, he will commit to his words and will succeed. It shows how much Naruto truly cares for her and when he failed, he didn't want to end it, so he made it into a long term until it finally succeed, just to make her smile. Besides, reread the fight and you'll notice that Naruto had two things in mind: saving his best friend and keeping the promise.

[sushi.]

Well..to each their own I guess. Aside from what Megi said,

And here’s the best part :

-Sakura is more distant from Naruto in part 2 and even their common will to bring Sasuke back doesn’t make them closer...

Wasn't this what Naruto basically said in the hospital? That it does bring them closer? That is makes him happy, he relies on her, he makes her continue when she's about to give up on life(databook) and they cry together(first reunion with Sasuke). Even if you don't count those scenes, what in the manga says otherwise? It's common logic that if two people go on the same journey, striving for the same goal, it is hard for both not to get close. Their togetherness is not to be underestimated.

 

It is not a strong argument to begin with either. Let's say their common will doesn't bring them closer, unless you argue that nothing does, I can simply say "They grow closer in other ways". Seems to me it's a stubborn statement instead of an argument, I would've liked to see some manga-backup.

Edited by sushi., 06 November 2013 - 04:26 PM.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

What’s your opinion about this NH argument :

 

Naruto has never really loved Sakura because :

 

-He didn’t defend her against Rock Lee when he was sending kisses to her at the chuunin exam...

-He let Sakura fighting Sasori alone (even if Chiyo was there) JUSTso he can follow Gaara’s dead body...

-He followed Orochimaru at the bridge, while Sakura was falling in the canyon instead of helping her...

-Naruto never said i twas for Sakura that he wanted to bring Sasuke back...

 

And here’s the best part :

-Sakura is more distant from Naruto in part 2 and even their common will to bring Sasuke back doesn’t make them closer...

 

So ? What can you say to counter this ?

 

- Why should defend her? It's not like she was in any kind of danger, and Rock Lee's crush was harmless and played for laughs. I fail to see how that proves anything.

- Yeah, because he trusts her ability to look out for herself. He doesn't need to be her shield, keeping her out of any fights were her skills might be necessary.

- He was overtaken by the Kyuubi's influence and literally blinded with rage and had no idea what he was doing.

-  No, but that does not offer any proof that he doesn't love her. He made a promise to her that he would bring Sasuke back, because he loves her. It makes little difference whether his reasons were specifically for Sakura or not.

- Sushi already addressed that one pretty well.

Edited by BakeNeko-Chan, 10 November 2013 - 02:06 AM.

[sushi.]

I like how the the argument basically cherrypicks out single scenarios. "He had the opportunity to showcase his love for her during x, x, x, but didn't and that's how he missed the only opportunities. :th_yeah:"

 

Oh dear.

[redragon88]

What’s your opinion about this NH argument :

 

Naruto has never really loved Sakura because :

 

-He didn’t defend her against Rock Lee when he was sending kisses to her at the chuunin exam...

-He let Sakura fighting Sasori alone (even if Chiyo was there) JUSTso he can follow Gaara’s dead body...

-He followed Orochimaru at the bridge, while Sakura was falling in the canyon instead of helping her...

-Naruto never said i twas for Sakura that he wanted to bring Sasuke back...

 

And here’s the best part :

-Sakura is more distant from Naruto in part 2 and even their common will to bring Sasuke back doesn’t make them closer...

 

So ? What can you say to counter this ?

 

[Paptala]

What’s your opinion about this NH argument :

 

Naruto has never really loved Sakura because :

 

-He didn’t defend her against Rock Lee when he was sending kisses to her at the chuunin exam...

-He let Sakura fighting Sasori alone (even if Chiyo was there) JUSTso he can follow Gaara’s dead body...

-He followed Orochimaru at the bridge, while Sakura was falling in the canyon instead of helping her...

-Naruto never said i twas for Sakura that he wanted to bring Sasuke back...

 

And here’s the best part :

-Sakura is more distant from Naruto in part 2 and even their common will to bring Sasuke back doesn’t make them closer...

 

So ? What can you say to counter this ?

(1)  Why would Naruto bother defending Sakura in that instance?  Naruto knows better than anyone Sakura is more than capable of handling unwanted suitors on her own.  Keyword being unwanted, which is the other reason Naruto didn't bother getting upset or jealous or anything when Lee was first hitting on Sakura.  Sakura couldn't have made it clearer that she wasn't interested in Rock Lee, romantically or otherwise.  She was screaming about how weird looking he was and dodging his kisses.  Notice that once Sakura did start giving Lee positive attention, Naruto was clearly shown getting jealous in that instance.

 

(2) I don't have much to add to this one outside of what has already been said - it wasn't confirmed Gaara was dead (or at least, Naruto didn't want to believe it, which is why he had Sakura check after they finally retrieved his body), and he trusted Sakura to fight her own battles (though he did ask Kakashi to go help Sakura, he didn't push when Kakashi stayed behind with him).  Besides, its not like Sakura didn't have her own back-up either (Chiyo) and its not like he didn't shown relief and maybe even a bit of pride when they reunited after the fight.

 

(3) Pretty sure Naruto was consumed with rage and was being influenced by Kurama at that point (he had already grown the chakra shroud, and we saw earlier in the Rescue Gaara arc that he's already a total loose canon under Kurama's influence at that point given the weakening seal).  So really, its more accurate to say Kurama chose to continue after Orochimaru to feed Naruto's anger that was allowing him control and to satiate his own bloodlust/anger instead of worrying about Sakura.  This makes as much sense as saying that Naruto in Kn6 mode chose instead to go fight Pein instead of trying to help Hinata who was bleeding out on the ground.

 

(4) Kishimoto has literally spelled things out with the POAL and Sasuke and somehow they still do not get it.  It's been clear since the POAL that Naruto was not chasing after Sasuke for Sakura (or rather, not for Sakura alone) since he was already going to save Sasuke before he made the promise, and Naruto's bond with Sasuke was established as dear to Naruto both before and after.  Shizune flat out said that Naruto was chasing after Sasuke for his own sake as well.  Naruto told Sakura that the promise has nothing to do with his personal desire to save Sasuke, which logically means then that he made the POAL was pretty much entirely about making Sakura happy and his romantic feelings for her rather than bringing Sasuke back.  It was the unfulfilled POAL that Naruto said was the reason he couldn't confess to Sakura and the first thing Sakura thought of when Sai told her Naruto loves her.  Obvious it obvious that POAL was romantic in nature, and that it was incredibly significant. 

 

Naruto and Sakura are clearly closer in part two than they ever were before.  Sakura learns more and more about Naruto over the course of part 2, to the point where she can speak on Naruto's behalf and clarify the intent behind his words to others.  As others have mentioned, Naruto tells her that her support with the quest to get Sasuke back makes him happy.  She is hugging him in public, and Naruto is telling her things he wouldn't have before (for example, telling her directly and specifically that he has Kyuubi sealed inside of him).  If this person cannot even admit that Naruto and Sakura have gotten incredibly close over the course of part 2, even on a platonic level, then there is no point in debating with this person at all since there is clearly either a serious lack of reading comprehension on their part, they are being blinded by their own shipping preferences/character biases, or both.

[Inferno180]

Despite the potential that lies ahead, rin sakura parallel coming or not, the whole kushina thing is just reason people should be aware, even then the 3 simple things that NS has above all others.

 

Screentime, Interaction, and Dynamics

 

Obviously Naruto and Sakura share much screentime despite being teammates, they also have many scenes just focused on both of them.

 

Interaction, they interact a lot, they speak a lot, they cause actions to each other and impact one another. This has gone on for the longest time. Out of all the boy girl interaction, for serious or comedic reasons, their interaction is the longest.

 

Finally dynamics, yes the way in how much changed between them. From Naruto being stupid and Sakura hating him to now Naruto being a smarter person and Sakura being caring and concerned for him this entire past battle, its just how much more will change? Sasuke hasn't seen sakura any different and Hinata just loving him really doesn't change much if she always did love him. Naruto never thinking bad about Hinata is another I mean he just ignored her, but a dynamic of going from hate to love is much greater than just having no opinion to love.

 

And seriously the whole kushina stuff, just going by the limited stuff we know with the early interaction with her and Minato, how both Sakura and Kushina were bullied and made fun of a feature they hated but their repsective blond guys actually liked that, the fact that Naruto should even get a chance to confess. Seriously, Kishi practically just set up so much glass here, how can people not see it. I mean even the foreshadow which many NH fans followed until 631 now say it means nothing. No matter what, nothing has changed the fact sakura is like kushina, the only girl so far for this comparision canonically. Heck because of this, it still seems insane to people that Sakura would eventually see it was Naruto who complimented her forehead disgused as Sasuke. All I can see with this stuff is, it its already such an easy and established comparsion here, how much more obvious stuff does kishi need to give us at this point?

[Psychox]

What’s your opinion about this NH argument :

 

Naruto has never really loved Sakura because :

 

-He didn’t defend her against Rock Lee when he was sending kisses to her at the chuunin exam...

-He let Sakura fighting Sasori alone (even if Chiyo was there) JUSTso he can follow Gaara’s dead body...

-He followed Orochimaru at the bridge, while Sakura was falling in the canyon instead of helping her...

-Naruto never said i twas for Sakura that he wanted to bring Sasuke back...

 

And here’s the best part :

-Sakura is more distant from Naruto in part 2 and even their common will to bring Sasuke back doesn’t make them closer...

 

So ? What can you say to counter this ?

Sweet Jesus .. does Naruto have to watch over Sakura 24/7? So he has to defend her from the attention of other men... SAKURA ISN"T AN ITEM T_T ... Furthermore , she isn't/wasn't obligated to return Naruto's feelings ... what wait , i don't know if this is logical , its so confusing ...

Naruto trusts in Sakura's abilities so does she in his (That's why she almost ripped her lungs screaming for him at the Pain arc :3)

YEah... like Naruto was concussions and all .. T_T_T_T

Right , right , that's cause she was ready to give up he inspired her to become stronger so next time they will bring him back together...

What the DUCK? O_O....

Here is a better response than a whole LAP..

Edited by Psychox, 06 November 2013 - 09:27 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Must.. resist to not write laps.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 06 November 2013 - 09:39 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

^That's my line.

[Question22]

Whats your opinion about this NH argument :
 
Naruto has never really loved Sakura because :
 
-He didnt defend her against Rock Lee when he was sending kisses to her at the chuunin exam...
-He let Sakura fighting Sasori alone (even if Chiyo was there) JUSTso he can follow Gaaras dead body...
-He followed Orochimaru at the bridge, while Sakura was falling in the canyon instead of helping her...
-Naruto never said i twas for Sakura that he wanted to bring Sasuke back...
 
And heres the best part :
-Sakura is more distant from Naruto in part 2 and even their common will to bring Sasuke back doesnt make them closer...



 

So ? What can you say to counter this ?

1. Seriously this proves nothing
2. he belives sakura and her strength
3. That wasnt naruto the kyuubi was controling him there
4. He is doing it becuse of hes bond with sasuke and for sakura too ,equaly.
5. okay i smell pure ignorance here are we reading the same manga again?

[Enkai]

What’s your opinion about this NH argument :

 

Naruto has never really loved Sakura because :

 

-He didn’t defend her against Rock Lee when he was sending kisses to her at the chuunin exam...

-He let Sakura fighting Sasori alone (even if Chiyo was there) JUSTso he can follow Gaara’s dead body...

-He followed Orochimaru at the bridge, while Sakura was falling in the canyon instead of helping her...

-Naruto never said i twas for Sakura that he wanted to bring Sasuke back...

 

And here’s the best part :

-Sakura is more distant from Naruto in part 2 and even their common will to bring Sasuke back doesn’t make them closer...

 

So ? What can you say to counter this ?

 

[Tokura Misaki]

What’s your opinion about this NH argument :

 

Naruto has never really loved Sakura because :

 

-He didn’t defend her against Rock Lee when he was sending kisses to her at the chuunin exam...

-He let Sakura fighting Sasori alone (even if Chiyo was there) JUSTso he can follow Gaara’s dead body...

-He followed Orochimaru at the bridge, while Sakura was falling in the canyon instead of helping her...

-Naruto never said i twas for Sakura that he wanted to bring Sasuke back...

 

And here’s the best part :

-Sakura is more distant from Naruto in part 2 and even their common will to bring Sasuke back doesn’t make them closer...

 

So ? What can you say to counter this ?

 

[Inferno180]

Oh boy, it seems like there is an epidemic now, many naruto sites with event pages on like Sakura and Naruto, they removed some stuff with Minato thinking of Kushina because of the 631 event only saying Sakura hit Naruto.

 

Know wiki stuff is nothing to be making a deal over but seriously,

 

under the relationships page, rather than have something meaningful like "when Sakura was done healing Naruto, he told her to rest but she insisted that she wasn't a weak woman and she too trained under a sannin to which Naruto smiles and stands with her and sasuke as a reborn team 7 fights in the war together."

 

Instead they put, "after releasing her seal to which she decimates several jubbi fission clones, it frightens naruto to the point he will never cross her again."

 

  really? They really need to do this? The Hinata section sounds fine (no duh cause they try to make it sound like a love story) but come on, are the pairing wars so bad in this series that they need to do stuff to this degree? the whole part with team 7 at the end in her section was much better sounding.

 

Even the couples wiki had better info for a while but some people decided to remove the small kushina reference minato had when he met sakura, even to the point that under reasons for evidence which used to have Sakura being compared to Kushina as the only one so far, or simply that 631s event could be a possible reference to her, someone decided to remove it, yet under the Hinata page, they keep "evidence" with something so minor like Madara calling Hinata "little misses" just how does that consitute as evidence? Its a small statement, think like how some westerners in the 1800s said "little lady" or "hey son hold on" that was just simple greeting in that time, (well movies don't speak for history but its a same ordeal in works of fiction like this).

 

Seruously is the aspect of pairing wars so bad in this series that people need to go wiki trolling? Can anti-NS fans really not find anything against NS at this point? Its like some people want to sensor 631 and bolster 615 even though 615 has had no clear importance with the hand holding, rather neji's death is the important part from 615 yet people try to say the other is the more important part. Are people really this hateful of the aspect of NS? Really? If they hate the pairing they really should just hate the author, kishi wrote the seires his way and he chose most stuff with naruto and sakura more than naruto and hinata. Seriously, even if we had to count fillers for evidence, NS would already win I mean naruto says he loves sakura in ep 235 after the land of iron so that kills the filler arguements. We have more evidence canonwise, we have the foreshadow from kushina, we have the parallels, we have the freaking development. How much more does kishi need to make? NS isn't canon, theres just a lot of arrows pointing to it.

 

All I know is, if anytime in the next few weeks till the end of the year, we get a NS moment, its going to be a cataclysmic new year.

[Hiraishin]

My opinion is that Naruto's love for Sakura cannot be argued. My evidence is a manga called "Naruto" by Masashi Kishimoto.

 I love you. 

[咲耶姫]

I agree with all of you, there is nothing to response, all those arguments are based on nothing. It looks like a lame attempt to  distort Naruto’s love for Sakura in every possible way because he (along with other NH fan) so wants Naruto to be in love with Hinata that he diminishes NS at the first opportunity. And if they really do belive in those ”arguments” then they are more delusional than I thought.

And there is so many mistakes concerning the context, that it makes me wonder if those who believe this (because this person is obviously not the only one) are not just reading passages where Hinata is here and they skipped the rest or they read it but without paying attention. But one thing for sure, they have surely skipped a lot of NS moments.

 

The only thing you can really response to this kind of opinion is to reread the manga. But even there, even if he would do it, he would certainly keep this way of thinking.

I find the power of will really interesting. No matter what is obvious, if you really want something to happen, you will be biased and your mind will be clouded at the point you don’t even see what is obvious anymore or you will twist facts until they tie in what you like (That’s exactly what happen with 631).

 

But if I should response to it I would say:

 

-I’m sure Kishimoto hadn’t even think about the love aspect in this scene, it was purely comical

-As you said, he trusts her and the focus of the scene (and of the arc) was on Gaara and Naruto’s bond... Not Naruto and Sakura’s

-Naruto wasn’t himself anymore, and if the fact that he save her or not is a prove that he doesn’t love her anymore, then he “relove” her when he save her from Sasuke

-Like someone said, during his fight with Sasuke he was thinking about his promise, no need to go further

-And the last argument I won’t even waste my time on this

[TrueSacrifice]

The thing about NS is that we don't have to downplay or conveniently forget certain scenes from other pairings to make ours seem more valid. Because the others don't stand on their own some of their fans must feel the need to attempt to tear down Naruto and Sakura's relationship. If those people would acknowledge the NS scenes and only argue the validity of their own preference based on actual scenes in the manga I would be fine with that. When they resort to character bashing and intentionally misreading the story is when it gets sad and I will not interact with those people.

 

Liking an opposing pairing is alright with me. Believing it will happen even. Resorting to being an ass in order to defend it is definitely not.

[Branden]

you know as much as I hate it when people post easily countered arguments from other fandoms I must admit it's a great way to get people talking.

[TouKen4Life3g]

It's funny though because the more they argue, the more I have to go back and then talk about them, only to make me appreciate more of the pairing. I guess it's one of those moments when you look back, you may or may not appreciate more.

[KnS]

The thing about NS is that we don't have to downplay or conveniently forget certain scenes from other pairings to make ours seem more valid. Because the others don't stand on their own some of their fans must feel the need to attempt to tear down Naruto and Sakura's relationship. If those people would acknowledge the NS scenes and only argue the validity of their own preference based on actual scenes in the manga I would be fine with that. When they resort to character bashing and intentionally misreading the story is when it gets sad and I will not interact with those people.

 

The question I've asked myself many times, though... is such misreading of a story really intentional?  

 

I mean, for the sake of conversation let's assume it's true.  Why would someone do that?  Why choose to misinterpret an author's intentions?  Why have a closed mind about where the story is going, and how the hero / main character says he feels?  Why ignore obvious clues, then emotionally invest in the misinterpretation, only to be disappointed at the end? 

 

Maybe it's intentional on the part of some readers, but for others I think some other motivation has to be in play.  Maybe it's a preference for the long shot or the underdog.  Maybe it's a belief that if a pairing seems obvious it's already boring so they feel a need to dig deeper to find other connections.  Or maybe it's just arrogance that the reader thinks they know better than the author...?  

 

I don't get it, but it's a phenomenon I've seen over and over in other fandoms.  And once fans get invested in their preferences, it becomes a matter of principle that they will go down in flames defending.

 

Personally, I have no interest in making an emotional investment in a pairing that isn't going to be canon.  Not the lead characters, anyway.  Secondary characters that aren't likely to be officially paired off?  Sure, that can be fun to imagine or explore in fan fiction.  But I always support what I believe is the author's intended pairing(s).  

 

I guess that's why I believe other fans -- like NH fans, in this fandom -- must find a way, for whatever reason, to really see NH in the story and believe in it.  I have to assume they truly think NH is Kishimoto's intention, and that they're reading it right and we're not.  Otherwise the whole thing makes no sense to me.