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Colorado Movie Theatre Shooting


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#41 Jake

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 09:25 AM

QUOTE (Darth Krypt @ Jul 21 2012, 03:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Question. How does one in America obtain firearms?


For law abiding citizens you can go to the store, criminals usually get their's on the black market though.

QUOTE (Pikachew @ Jul 21 2012, 03:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
@DarthKrpyt

At the store. Concealed handguns I believe are a different matter (I believe you need a permit or certification for that) but other firearms can be purchased actually fairly easily. The shooter actually purchased his ammunition online. It's quite easy to purchase guns in America, and there aren't very many restrictions to my knowledge.



The only form of firearms that are regulated by the federal government are fully-automatic weapons, only someone with a federal firearms license can legally own them, and while it is illegal to possess a concealed weapon without a concealed weapon permit you can get around that by just not concealing it, as long as you keep it in the holster, tuck your shirt (and jacket) in the police can't do anything (although some cities have laws against carring a firearm in a open and displayed manner but said laws are technically unconstitutional).

Edited by Jake, 21 July 2012 - 09:27 AM.

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#42 Chew

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 10:23 AM

^ And there you go! I'm not too familiar with gun laws, but I knew something about a concealed firearm had a rule of some sort. The shooter in this case bought all of his guns legally, at least according to major news sources like CNN, MSNBC, etc.
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#43 Darth Krypt

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 10:48 AM

So basically getting a gun in America is as easy as getting a bag of chips in the supermarket. I'm glad I live in a country that bans ownership of firearms.

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#44 KonaKonaFan

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 11:29 AM

QUOTE (Darth Krypt @ Jul 21 2012, 05:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So basically getting a gun in America is as easy as getting a bag of chips in the supermarket. I'm glad I live in a country that bans ownership of firearms.


I don't know if I'd go that far.

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#45 Jake

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 12:47 PM

QUOTE (Pikachew @ Jul 21 2012, 06:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
^ And there you go! I'm not too familiar with gun laws, but I knew something about a concealed firearm had a rule of some sort. The shooter in this case bought all of his guns legally, at least according to major news sources like CNN, MSNBC, etc.


Yeah, but that's because he didn't have a criminal record.

QUOTE (Darth Krypt @ Jul 21 2012, 06:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So basically getting a gun in America is as easy as getting a bag of chips in the supermarket. I'm glad I live in a country that bans ownership of firearms.


Well it isn't that easy, there is a 7-10 day waiting period, in which time they preform a background check to make sure you haven't been convicted of a violent crime, although they don't even bother if you have a Concealed Weapons Permit or a Federal Firearms License because you have already gone through the background check.

Also studies show that gun countrol laws don't really work.

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I've just learned that Washington, D.C.'s petition for a rehearing of the Parker case in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit was denied today. This is good news. Readers will recall in this case that the D.C. Circuit overturned the decades-long ban on gun ownership in the nation's capitol on Second Amendment grounds.

However, as my colleague Peter Ferrara explained in his National Review Online article following the initial decision in March, it looks very likely that the United States Supreme Court will take the case on appeal. When it does so - beyond seriously considering the clear original intent of the Second Amendment to protect an individual's right to armed self-defense - the justices of the U.S. Supreme Court would be wise to take into account the findings of a recent study out of Harvard.

The study, which just appeared in Volume 30, Number 2 of the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy (pp. 649-694), set out to answer the question in its title: "Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide? A Review of International and Some Domestic Evidence." Contrary to conventional wisdom, and the sniffs of our more sophisticated and generally anti-gun counterparts across the pond, the answer is "no." And not just no, as in there is no correlation between gun ownership and violent crime, but an emphatic no, showing a negative correlation: as gun ownership increases, murder and suicide decreases.

The findings of two criminologists - Prof. Don Kates and Prof. Gary Mauser - in their exhaustive study of American and European gun laws and violence rates, are telling:

Nations with stringent anti-gun laws generally have substantially higher murder rates than those that do not. The study found that the nine European nations with the lowest rates of gun ownership (5,000 or fewer guns per 100,000 population) have a combined murder rate three times higher than that of the nine nations with the highest rates of gun ownership (at least 15,000 guns per 100,000 population).

For example, Norway has the highest rate of gun ownership in Western Europe, yet possesses the lowest murder rate. In contrast, Holland's murder rate is nearly the worst, despite having the lowest gun ownership rate in Western Europe. Sweden and Denmark are two more examples of nations with high murder rates but few guns. As the study's authors write in the report:

If the mantra "more guns equal more death and fewer guns equal less death" were true, broad cross-national comparisons should show that nations with higher gun ownership per capita consistently have more death. Nations with higher gun ownership rates, however, do not have higher murder or suicide rates than those with lower gun ownership. Indeed many high gun ownership nations have much lower murder rates. (p. 661)
Finally, and as if to prove the bumper sticker correct - that "gun don't kill people, people do" - the study also shows that Russia's murder rate is four times higher than the U.S. and more than 20 times higher than Norway. This, in a country that practically eradicated private gun ownership over the course of decades of totalitarian rule and police state methods of suppression. Needless to say, very few Russian murders involve guns.

The important thing to keep in mind is not the rate of deaths by gun - a statistic that anti-gun advocates are quick to recite - but the overall murder rate, regardless of means. The criminologists explain:

[P]er capita murder overall is only half as frequent in the United States as in several other nations where gun murder is rarer, but murder by strangling, stabbing, or beating is much more frequent. (p. 663 - emphases in original)
It is important to note here that Profs. Kates and Mauser are not pro-gun zealots. In fact, they go out of their way to stress that their study neither proves that gun control causes higher murder rates nor that increased gun ownership necessarily leads to lower murder rates. (Though, in my view, Prof. John Lott's More Guns, Less Crime does indeed prove the latter.) But what is clear, and what they do say, is that gun control is ineffectual at preventing murder, and apparently counterproductive.

Not only is the D.C. gun ban ill-conceived on constitutional grounds, it fails to live up to its purpose. If the astronomical murder rate in the nation's capitol, in comparison to cities where gun ownership is permitted, didn't already make that fact clear, this study out of Harvard should.



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#46 Lid

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 01:26 PM

Christopher Nolan released a statement

This really echoes what I had written earlier: "The movie theatre is my home, and the idea that someone would violate that innocent and hopeful place in such an unbearably savage way is devastating to me."

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#47 Darth Krypt

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 01:29 PM

Murder happens, no matter what the weapon is. Whether its a gun or a knife or whatever, there will always be murder cases. You ban guns, people with killing intent would find a baseball bat or a kitchen knife. The different murder rates in different countries could be because of cultural and political factors. But that's not the point. My point is mass murder. Its hard to do a mass shooting without owning a gun wouldn't it? Compared to going for a killing spree with a katana sword or something.

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#48 Fyuria'sLeo

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 01:32 PM

QUOTE (KonaKonaFan @ Jul 21 2012, 07:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't know if I'd go that far.



This, its actually a pretty long process to obtain a gun in general.

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#49 Jake

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 05:12 PM

QUOTE (Darth Krypt @ Jul 21 2012, 09:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Murder happens, no matter what the weapon is. Whether its a gun or a knife or whatever, there will always be murder cases. You ban guns, people with killing intent would find a baseball bat or a kitchen knife. The different murder rates in different countries could be because of cultural and political factors. But that's not the point. My point is mass murder. Its hard to do a mass shooting without owning a gun wouldn't it? Compared to going for a killing spree with a katana sword or something.



The problem is that someone who is going to preform a mass shooting is going to get the gun, if they can't get them legally they will get them illegally, they are already planing on killing a bunch of people why would having it against the law to own a gun stop him?

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#50 Derock

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 05:55 PM

Actually for buying guns, people can legally buy them with a license I think, only in certain states like Florida (known this since the Trayvon Martin case), Pennsylvania (a friend told me), and North Carolina (saw guns in Walmart).

As for Holmes, he bought his weapons from Bass Pro Shops, those guns are commonly used for hunting and fishing purposes.

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#51 tricksie

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 01:56 AM

QUOTE (ciardha @ Jul 21 2012, 01:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm just stunned. It's terrible and frightening .

From the bits I've heard about the shooter it sounds like he had descended into psychosis in the last year or so- and for genetically linked schizophrenia he was right around the typical age- mid 20's. Most who descend into madness do not become like him or even just violent in general, but a tiny percentage, for reasons still unknown, do.

Completely agree, Ciardha. In my brief, brief, stint as a psych major, I remember studying schizophrenia. Mid-20s is definitely the age when some forms present. I had the same thought when reading about his background: Brilliant but socially awkward. Committing an atrocious crime then meekly surrendering in the parking lot. Even telling the police about his booby-trapped apartment. Those contradictions in behavior speak of something going on beneath the surface...a mental break on par with some type of paranoid schizophrenia.

edit: Derock, not all North Carolinians approve of their gun control laws. *sigh* I could claim my residency in Florida and Arizona...but that's not helping my case much, is it? sweatdrop.gif lol, however I lived in downtown DC and Maryland and witnessed more firsthand fallout of gun violence, and I'm more in line with their laws...so I guess it all evens out in the end.

Edited by tricksie, 22 July 2012 - 02:08 AM.


#52 Chew

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 04:52 PM

http://www.foxnews.c...ssacre-suspect/

More news, this time from the court room. It appears this guy is just expressionless, dazed and not showing any signs of remorse still.
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#53 Fyuria'sLeo

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 04:57 PM

I was watching it, the guy was pretty much falling asleep in the court room. And the cop there kept smiling too it was freaking creepy.

Edited by Fyuria'sLeo, 23 July 2012 - 04:58 PM.

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#54 Derock

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 05:36 PM

I'm still in question of how the hell he dyed his hair? Did someone actually gave him hair dye in prison?

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#55 Fyuria'sLeo

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 05:57 PM

QUOTE (Derock @ Jul 23 2012, 01:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm still in question of how the hell he dyed his hair? Did someone actually gave him hair dye in prison?


He was dressed up as the joker.

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#56 Jake

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 05:58 PM

QUOTE (Derock @ Jul 23 2012, 01:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm still in question of how the hell he dyed his hair? Did someone actually gave him hair dye in prison?



From what I've heard when he was caught the police said that he had painted (with paint not hair dye) his hair red.

Edited by Jake, 23 July 2012 - 05:58 PM.

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#57 Nate River

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 07:02 PM

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 23 2012, 12:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
From what I've heard when he was caught the police said that he had painted (with paint not hair dye) his hair red.


That's what I heard. I thought it was that color when they caught him.

And Derock, you'd be surprised what people can make on their own in Jail given enough time. I remember watching an officer logging contraband and some of it included a paint set the inmate had made. The brush was hair, I forget what they used to make the paint.

#58 Gravenimage

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 07:03 PM

This guys is really a basket case.
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#59 shadow_Uzumaki

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 04:21 AM

Well, on the bright side, Christian Bale himself is visiting the Colorado shooting survivors. It's a touching gesture.

#60 The Tax-Man

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 02:16 AM

QUOTE (shadow_Uzumaki @ Jul 24 2012, 10:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well, on the bright side, Christian Bale himself is visiting the Colorado shooting survivors. It's a touching gesture.


And on his personal time without any input from the studio. At least the victims were feeling better, since they're obviously fans.

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