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Let's talk about Sexism

misconceptions reasons and my thoughts

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#41 questdrivencollie

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    "If I stumble, take a tumble
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Posted 26 June 2014 - 07:11 AM

Ever heard of tumblr's "social justice warriors"?

 

I don't spend much time on tumblr myself, but from what I hear from multiple sources SJWs and feminists on tumblr are not helping their cause *at all*.

http://blamethe1st.d...stice-463474138

 

 

Dangerous? A threat? No. I know of no one in real life or much anywhere else who spews such ridiculousness and it's not something our society as a whole would be ready to adopt any time soon.

But if these people being cited in the link above honestly believe the stuff they're saying, they're very misguided and it's not something that should be stood for. Wanting to slit a guy's throat for telling a woman to smile because she's beautiful? Claiming that video games are the only thing that keeps men from going out and raping? This idiocy is NOT something we want to become mainstream.

 

The only one that I really had no problem with in the above link was the OnePiece one, though I do think the artist was overly critical/uninformed.


Edited by questdrivencollie, 26 June 2014 - 07:25 AM.

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#42 Qia

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 08:20 AM

The point is that if a person believes that treating men like is okay; that if the situation was reverse makes things "better," then it just proves that that person who screams sexism at everything believing that they are always oppressed are themselves sexist.

The point of these videos is that the action itself is wrong regardless if it was towards men or women.

But...no one is saying that men should be treated like this lol.


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#43 StrikerTheNoble

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 08:56 AM

Well here`s my 2 cents (probably gonna regret this at a later time)

 

Let me just start off by saying that I personaly support devision of labour based on abilities.

It is an undesputed fact that males are physicly superior. It is the way we were built that makes us stronger and faster. And also more aggresssive. Women on the other hand have the so called maternal instinc. (Be advised at this point i am speaking in general, there are many exeptions to this)They mentaly mature faster are in general less agressive.

 

So in mind a woman is intrinsicly inferior in jobs such as construction work,other heavy duty manual labour and of course millitary. This may be sexist but if I were a squad leader I would rather have a squad of men backing me up. For the simple reason that men (due to our build) are better in hand to hand combat. As long as its a long range schirmish women have the same oppurtunity but if things get down to melee the difference is decisive.

 

The point I was making is that not everything is for everyone. Equality is not only acheived by everyone being able to do everything. That is also equality but is also a clusterkitten. The other way is also achieved by deviding society labour but not make it equaliy respected and not obligatory. Lets take the stay at home mom (or dad but I will get to that later). If the family has sufficient funds than I personaly see nothing wrong with a parent, traditionaly the mother, staying at home to take care of her/his child. How many cases of people gone wrong was caused by both the parents being work-o-holics and following "carrers" simply because society told them that they are failures in life if they do otherwise.

 

I would also like to point out some traditional/stereotipic differences between the genders. Lets start with same-gender intractions. Lets say for example to male friends get into a fight (ussually over something serious). They will beat the kitten out of eachother be done with it and go for a drink. Now if look at two girlfriends (i was told of this by women). They will get into a fight, verbally assasssinate eachother,potentialy start a cat fight and then proceed to humiliate eachother until the other is absolutely destroyed.

 

Why this might be is pretty simply explained. Most animal species have the gender which is physicly supposed to attract the other one. For ducks its colorful males trying to attack plain females. or peacocks, which have basicly the same setup. Some animals use singing to attract a partner. For humans is a coctail of all of the above. And think that the gender which attracts the other is most likely female.

 

If we go back to the stone age (or native americans) the setup was simple. The men did the hunting and war-fighting and making decisions, while the women provided clothing, took care if the children and many other domestic affairs. And they were in their own right important to the community. This setup might seem as a full patriarhat but it was efficient and people were mostly happy.

 

I know this might seem like a big "go back to the kitchen" thing but its not. If women feel as if they want careers they should be free to do so. Everyone should have the option to do what they want as long as the are not a liability. Gender equality would be at a higher level it werent for feminists (of all people) telling women to be dissapointed with their lives even when theres nothing really wrong.

 

PS: A woman will win a rape trial 90% of the time. Sometimes even if the guy is innocent. Also how many male gold diggers have you heard off? Most men dont have the option to marry money.


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#44 KonaKonaFan

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 08:59 AM

Guys... when .sushi said that there is no sexism against men, she didn't mean that men face no hardships. Sexism is based on a social system of oppression. One can be prejudiced against men, sure. But don't for a second think that men somehow don't have the upperhand socially. They do. 

 

When someone says, "I think women are treated unfairly!" and people respond, "You're just trying to bring men down!", it's... really telling.


Edited by KonaKonaFan, 26 June 2014 - 09:02 AM.

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#45 questdrivencollie

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    "If I stumble, take a tumble
    Go ahead serve me another
    And if I fall I’ll give it my all
    ‘Cause the fall is half the fight "

Posted 26 June 2014 - 09:19 AM

@strikerthenoble

It is true that men are physically stronger than women and therefore better suited to certain jobs or career paths than women may be. I don't think acknowledging this is sexist. Though, if a women does happen to be truly qualified and best fit for the position, she should ideally get it.

Personality and behavior stuff is a lot hairer and harder to explain, and I don't know enough on the differences between men and women there to comment.

 

 

 

Guys... when .sushi said that there is no sexism against men, she didn't mean that men face no hardships. Sexism is based on a social system of oppression. One can be prejudiced against men, sure. But don't for a second think that men somehow don't have the upperhand socially. They do. 

 

When someone says, "I think women are treated unfairly!" and people respond, "You're just trying to bring men down!", it's... really telling.

I don't think anyone's saying that sexism towards women doesn't matter or doesn't exist. I know I'm not, at least. I addressed it in a part of my post because I feel it important to point out the hypocrisy of some who claim to be for equality yet clearly are not.

 

Feminism itself...there are tons of different takes on it even among those who do support equality. Some prefer to reject the label altogether in favor of egalitarian specifically because of uber vocal hypocritical feminists that they don't want to be associated with. I can kinda understand that, though I don't do that myself. I have referred to myself as a feminist more than once and don't plan to stop.


Edited by questdrivencollie, 26 June 2014 - 09:21 AM.

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#46 KonaKonaFan

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 09:29 AM

I don't think anyone's saying that sexism towards women doesn't matter or doesn't exist. I know I'm not, at least. I addressed it in a part of my post because I feel it important to point out the hypocrisy of some who claim to be for equality yet clearly are not.

 

Feminism itself...there are tons of different takes on it even among those who do support equality. Some prefer to reject the label altogether in favor of egalitarian specifically because of uber vocal hypocritical feminists that they don't want to be associated with. I can kinda understand that, though I don't do that myself. I have referred to myself as a feminist more than once and don't plan to stop.

 

You're right, no one is saying that outright. But when a person reacts to the discussion of the systemic oppression of women with indigence, that's the message that it gives off. The common accusation that feminists just want to be more powerful than men have existed since the dawn of feminism, even before women could vote, so I really don't take the claim that feminists don't really want equality seriously.   


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#47 questdrivencollie

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    "If I stumble, take a tumble
    Go ahead serve me another
    And if I fall I’ll give it my all
    ‘Cause the fall is half the fight "

Posted 26 June 2014 - 09:38 AM

My guess would be that most do genuinely want equality, though there may be some differing views within that sphere.


Edited by questdrivencollie, 26 June 2014 - 09:39 AM.

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#48 KonaKonaFan

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 09:45 AM

My guess would be that most do genuinely want equality, though there may be some differing views within that sphere.

 

People who don't want equality aren't feminists, because equality is the goal of feminism. But yeah, there are several differing views on how to achieve that equality.


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#49 Mistraal

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 10:02 AM

I can't help but feel this thread spawned off my manga quitting one. I've also ignored the cheap shots at me up until now but after the "absurdly stupid" comment (mods pls wru with this crap) I feel the need to say something. Especially since I don't go around calling other people ABSURDLY STUPID for their opinion I think I'm due my 2 cents. Here he go.

Masashi Kishimoto is an extremely EXTREMELY successful artist. He's managed to create of the most successful, longest spanning mangas of all time. Yet for all his success he still cannot seem to create a decent female character. None of them are good and anytime they contribute anything of value it's promply overshadowed by a male's achievment that the female cannot hope to live up to. Typically, the achievement made by the male is the result of what we've affectionately come to call "asspulls" (Sasuke I'm looking at you) or he was "given" the power at virtually no cost. Usually by some greater MALE power.

Since everyone seems to think I'm just butthurt, let's go ahead and have some mini postmortems of the females in this manga. shall we? We'll start with the most loved/hated.

Sakura. This poor girl cannot catch a break. She manages to achieve the same medical/combat status as the Hokage of Konoha and right when she starts to feel decent about herself "I think I caught up to them..!" She's promptly rendered useless and returns to cannon fodder status. For all she's accomplished, the girl can't even maintain her own footing now and has to rely on her teacher to save her even though she technically outranks him in terms of jutsu and combat status. All of her achievments are attributed to her off-panel and we never even catch a glimpse of her working to accomplish the Byakugo or Yin Seal. We got a Deus ex Machina version of "Oh. I guess THAT'S why she''s been useless for 200 chapters.."

EVERY SINGLE THING she has done to contribute positively in the war, minus a pep talk, has been done off panel or was immediately invalidated. I.E. Her promptly needing to be saved by Naruto and Sasuke after punching out the Juubi fodder. Her needing to be saved the 3 times after that. All of her training? Off-panel. Remote Healing? Off-Panel. Would it have killed Kishimoto to put it in perspective how much she was contributing? No. Would it have detracted from the story to have the reader realize how HUGE the alliance is and how AWESOME it is that Sakura can heal them all at once? No. Did he do this? NO. Any little bit of this would go miles for her and it never happens because Kishimoto doesn't want it to.  We clearly needed more frames of Sasuke staring pensively off into the wind instead so everyone knows how bad-ass he is.


Hinata. At least Sakura gets thrown a bone every now and again because she's a "main" character. Hinata's character is, in my opinion, disgusting. There is barely a redeemable quality about the girl. She lives in a world of ninja and tries her best to be one but she can't accomplish a damn thing except get beaten within an inch of her life. She is, quite literally, a housewife masquerading as a ninja while pining after the main character with every fiber of her little being. Are there any thoughts about how Hinata needs to get better? Nope, Naruto. How about mourning her cousin? "Oh pls Dead Neji save Naruto!" Her friends and team are being gobbled up around her and what is Hinata thinking about? I wonder.

At least Sakura was given an independent thought process. Hinata wasn't even worthy of that. Literally, every function she performs revolves after obtaining a male character's love. Period. Oh, but Kishi did give her those cool Lion Fist things for no reason that's kinda neat, right guys? Wait, what do they do? Oh. That's right...nothing.

The things that get's me the most about Hinata is people like her. And when you ask why this is what they say. "She's pretty. has big boobs, loves Naruto." Yeah, cause that's all a woman needs, right guys?


Karin.  So, is she her own character or just Tsundere Hinata? Because I can't frigging tell. Can't fight? Check. Get's crap beat out of her for a dude? Check. Pines after her love interest and would walk blindly into traffic if he told her to? Check. Oh, but she has big boobs and got mad at Sasuke for five minutes when he almost killed her that one time. That's worth something right? Just kidding, let's watch her forgive his cold-blooded attempt on her life for absolutely no reason at all except plot. SMH. If Hinata doesn't even have an independant thought process, Karin doesn't even have a BRAIN.


Kaguya. She's only been around for a few chapters but I'm already going after her, and with good reason. She's what absolutely blew me over the edge. Here was Kishimoto's chance to redeem himself. After 600 chapters of creating, fodderizing, manupliating and abusing his female characters he finally debuts the final villain....AND IT'S A FEMALE! My excitement was over 9000. Alright, well Madara is gone, let's see what she can do!

...Wait, ok. So the only reason she's here is because Black Zetsu has been setting it up for hundreds of years? Ok. Well, that kind of sucks, I was hoping she would have some motivation or something or a plan or plot. Maybe TALK a little. ...She's crying. Wait, what the hell? Why? She's here to own the world! She's gonna take on Naruto and Sasuke at the same time! WHY is she crying?? Ok, whatever. Maybe she'll get over it and we'll see some awesome stuff. *Sexy Justu Punch In Face* OH FOR kittens SAKE. *BURNS MANGA*

To put it in perspective, let's look at what characters had to do to even LAND A HIT on Madara. He was nigh invincible. Untouchable. Tsunade barely scratched his surface and by the end of it she ended up bisected and the other 4 Kage were in ruins. Gai had to GIVE UP HIS LIFE to get a hit onto Madara. 8 Gates. What do you have to do in order to get a hit on Kaguya?

Simple. Just distract her feeble female mind with a sexy jutsu. *BAM* I just...I couldn't even take it seriously. It wasn't funny. It's was stupid and offensive beyond all reason. Do you seriously think Madara or ANY OTHER male villain would have been distracted for 2 seconds by a sexy jutsu? Do you think Naruto would have been able to nail Madara with a hit like that with a sexy jutsu?

The answer is no. Kishmoto has debuted his final villain and it's a female. And he's promptly fodderizing her because it's all he knows how to do to female characters. Hopefully time will prove me wrong but it hasn't for 600+ chapters and I doubt it will. 

Hopefully what I'm saying makes more sense to a lot of you now.


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#50 KonaKonaFan

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 10:07 AM

I can't help but feel this thread spawned off my manga quitting one. I've also ignored the cheap shots at me up until now but after the "absurdly stupid" comment (mods pls wru with this crap) I feel the need to say something. Especially since I don't go around calling other people ABSURDLY STUPID for their opinion I think I'm due my 2 cents. Here he go.

Masashi Kishimoto is an extremely EXTREMELY successful artist. He's managed to create of the most successful, longest spanning mangas of all time. Yet for all his success he still cannot seem to create a decent female character. None of them are good and anytime they contribute anything of value it's promply overshadowed by a male's achievment that the female cannot hope to live up to. Typically, the achievement made by the male is the result of what we've affectionately come to call "asspulls" (Sasuke I'm looking at you) or he was "given" the power at virtually no cost. Usually by some greater MALE power.

Since everyone seems to think I'm just butthurt, let's go ahead and have some mini postmortems of the females in this manga. shall we? We'll start with the most loved/hated.

Sakura. This poor girl cannot catch a break. She manages to achieve the same medical/combat status as the Hokage of Konoha and right when she starts to feel decent about herself "I think I caught up to them..!" She's promptly rendered useless and returns to cannon fodder status. For all she's accomplished, the girl can't even maintain her own footing now and has to rely on her teacher to save her even though she technically outranks him in terms of jutsu and combat status. All of her achievments are attributed to her off-panel and we never even catch a glimpse of her working to accomplish the Byakugo or Yin Seal. We got a Deus ex Machina version of "Oh. I guess THAT'S why she''s been useless for 200 chapters.."

EVERY SINGLE THING she has done to contribute positively in the war, minus a pep talk, has been done off panel or was immediately invalidated. I.E. Her promptly needing to be saved by Naruto and Sasuke after punching out the Juubi fodder. Her needing to be saved the 3 times after that. All of her training? Off-panel. Remote Healing? Off-Panel. Would it have killed Kishimoto to put it in perspective how much she was contributing? No. Would it have detracted from the story to have the reader realize how HUGE the alliance is and how AWESOME it is that Sakura can heal them all at once? No. Did he do this? NO. Any little bit of this would go miles for her and it never happens because Kishimoto doesn't want it to.  We clearly needed more frames of Sasuke staring pensively off into the wind instead so everyone knows how bad-ass he is.


Hinata. At least Sakura gets thrown a bone every now and again because she's a "main" character. Hinata's character is, in my opinion, disgusting. There is barely a redeemable quality about the girl. She lives in a world of ninja and tries her best to be one but she can't accomplish a damn thing except get beaten within an inch of her life. She is, quite literally, a housewife masquerading as a ninja while pining after the main character with every fiber of her little being. Are there any thoughts about how Hinata needs to get better? Nope, Naruto. How about mourning her cousin? "Oh pls Dead Neji save Naruto!" Her friends and team are being gobbled up around her and what is Hinata thinking about? I wonder.

At least Sakura was given an independent thought process. Hinata wasn't even worthy of that. Literally, every function she performs revolves after obtaining a male character's love. Period. Oh, but Kishi did give her those cool Lion Fist things for no reason that's kinda neat, right guys? Wait, what do they do? Oh. That's right...nothing.

The things that get's me the most about Hinata is people like her. And when you ask why this is what they say. "She's pretty. has big boobs, loves Naruto." Yeah, cause that's all a woman needs, right guys?


Karin.  So, is she her own character or just Tsundere Hinata? Because I can't frigging tell. Can't fight? Check. Get's crap beat out of her for a dude? Check. Pines after her love interest and would walk blindly into traffic if he told her to? Check. Oh, but she has big boobs and got mad at Sasuke for five minutes when he almost killed her that one time. That's worth something right? Just kidding, let's watch her forgive his cold-blooded attempt on her life for absolutely no reason at all except plot. SMH. If Hinata doesn't even have an independant thought process, Karin doesn't even have a BRAIN.


Kaguya. She's only been around for a few chapters but I'm already going after her, and with good reason. She's what absolutely blew me over the edge. Here was Kishimoto's chance to redeem himself. After 600 chapters of creating, fodderizing, manupliating and abusing his female characters he finally debuts the final villain....AND IT'S A FEMALE! My excitement was over 9000. Alright, well Madara is gone, let's see what she can do!

...Wait, ok. So the only reason she's here is because Black Zetsu has been setting it up for hundreds of years? Ok. Well, that kind of sucks, I was hoping she would have some motivation or something or a plan or plot. Maybe TALK a little. ...She's crying. Wait, what the hell? Why? She's here to own the world! She's gonna take on Naruto and Sasuke at the same time! WHY is she crying?? Ok, whatever. Maybe she'll get over it and we'll see some awesome stuff. *Sexy Justu Punch In Face* OH FOR f**cks SAKE. *BURNS MANGA*

To put it in perspective, let's look at what characters had to do to even LAND A HIT on Madara. He was nigh invincible. Untouchable. Tsunade barely scratched his surface and by the end of it she ended up bisected and the other 4 Kage were in ruins. Gai had to GIVE UP HIS LIFE to get a hit onto Madara. 8 Gates. What do you have to do in order to get a hit on Kaguya?

Simple. Just distract her feeble female mind with a sexy jutsu. *BAM* I just...I couldn't even take it seriously. It wasn't funny. It's was stupid and offensive beyond all reason. Do you seriously think Madara or ANY OTHER male villain would have been distracted for 2 seconds by a sexy jutsu? Do you think Naruto would have been able to nail Madara with a hit like that with a sexy jutsu?

The answer is no. Kishmoto has debuted his final villain and it's a female. And he's promptly fodderizing her because it's all he knows how to do to female characters. Hopefully time will prove me wrong but it hasn't for 600+ chapters and I doubt it will. 

Hopefully what I'm saying makes more sense to a lot of you now.

 

BOOM. 

 

This is not only a problem with Naruto, but with anime overall. The males are the useful ones, the females are the supporters. I mean, as far as female-empowering manga/anime, we have Sailor Moon, and.... and.... and.... we have Sailor Moon....


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#51 questdrivencollie

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    ‘Cause the fall is half the fight "

Posted 26 June 2014 - 10:20 AM

I think Kaguya's reaction had more to do with "are you fricking stupid?" than her being distracted by the sexiness. And theoretically Naruto could have used it earlier, though I can't say that everyone would necessarily be distracted by it in the same manner or have the exact same reaction. And it was idiotic, yeah, but idiotic is pretty in-character for Naruto, so I agreed with those that felt it fit.

But that's my opinion and I don't feel it's something worth arguing about.

 

Generally speaking I very much prefer to give people the benefit of a doubt, but I won't deny that there are flaws in the way females are portrayed in various media. Specifically media from a country with a different view on women than Western countries. It's not an automatic game-ender for me, but I'm not inclined to coerce people to continue reading something they feel they can no longer support.


Edited by questdrivencollie, 26 June 2014 - 10:27 AM.

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#52 Mistraal

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 10:22 AM

 

BOOM. 

 

This is not only a problem with Naruto, but with anime overall. The males are the useful ones, the females are the supporters. I mean, as far as female-empowering manga/anime, we have Sailor Moon, and.... and.... and.... we have Sailor Moon....

I'm willing to cut Japan a break because their culture is, as a whole, pretty sexist. It's a widespread opinion among males that women should spend the majority of their time having children because the birthrate is dropping and they blame feminism for this. Check out this article from a few days ago:

http://edition.cnn.c....html?hpt=hp_c5

This japanese woman tried to stand up and express her opinion and what were the things about her that were attacked? Her marriage status and her fertility status. Now REALLY think about that for a second and then apply it to the culture as a whole. It's basically putting all of the value of a woman's life on the facts that she can:

A) Marry a Man
B) Have his babies. If you can't have his babies you are valueless.

I'm not so blind as to not expect this attitude to bleed over into Japanese works of art I.E. Naruto. However, the sexism in the manga has reached a point for me where it's simply no longer palatable so I'm choosing to quit.

DISCLAIMER: Clearly EVERY SINGLE Japanese man in existance is this way. Right guys? No.   ....But Kishimoto is.


Edited by Mistraal, 26 June 2014 - 10:23 AM.

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#53 KonaKonaFan

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 10:26 AM

I'm willing to cut Japan a break because their culture is, as a whole, pretty sexist. It's a widespread opinion among males that women should spend the majority of their time having children because the birthrate is dropping and they blame feminism for this. Check out this article from a few days ago:

http://edition.cnn.c....html?hpt=hp_c5

This japanese woman tried to stand up and express her opinion and what were the things about her that were attacked? Her marriage status and her fertility status. Now REALLY think about that for a second and then apply it to the culture as a whole. It's basically putting all of the value of a woman's life on the facts that she can:

A) Marry a Man
B) Have his babies. If you can't have his babies you are valueless.

I'm not so blind as to not expect this attitude to bleed over into Japanese works of art I.E. Naruto. However, the sexism in the manga has reached a point for me where it's simply no longer palatable so I'm choosing to quit.

DISCLAIMER: Clearly EVERY SINGLE Japanese man in existance is this way. Right guys? No.   ....But Kishimoto is.

 

Lol, it's pretty sad how needed that disclaimer is.

 

Yeah, Japan has a pretty problematic culture. But hey, so does the USA. And, well, every country really.


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#54 Fairy Tail Fantard

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 10:59 AM

Ever heard of tumblr's "social justice warriors"?

 

I don't spend much time on tumblr myself, but from what I hear from multiple sources SJWs and feminists on tumblr are not helping their cause *at all*.

http://blamethe1st.d...stice-463474138

 

 

Dangerous? A threat? No. I know of no one in real life or much anywhere else who spews such ridiculousness and it's not something our society as a whole would be ready to adopt any time soon.

But if these people being cited in the link above honestly believe the stuff they're saying, they're very misguided and it's not something that should be stood for. Wanting to slit a guy's throat for telling a woman to smile because she's beautiful? Claiming that video games are the only thing that keeps men from going out and raping? This idiocy is NOT something we want to become mainstream.

 

The only one that I really had no problem with in the above link was the OnePiece one, though I do think the artist was overly critical/uninformed.

Men only play video games because it keeps them from going out and raping? WHAT?! I'm sorry, but these people are idiots. Plain and simple.


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#55 Broken Figurine

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 12:42 PM

StrikerTheNoble, here's the problem with your idea of the differences between men and women.

 

Men are not entirely built to be 'stronger' as a whole. Women's lower body strength is superior. We also have a higher pain threshold. We're better at long distance endurance. Our brains are also more analytical (one of the reasons why we tend to be better at distinguishing social cues), and we work better in teams. However, even these differences are slight, because in reality whenever these statistics come up... the differences between men are greater than the differences between men and women. It's poor statistical reasoning when people bring up these so called inherent differences and then make broad ideas about how the world should be like.

 

Speaking of our hunter AND gatherer ancestry, men and women were in a highly eligatarian society, and a good amount of tribes were actually a matriarchy, where the woman is the head of the household. Men did go hunt, but women comprised a large portion of the diet from what they gathered. It's actually, interestingly enough, why men are more likely to be colour blind. The evolutionary theory is that if a woman was colour blind and would accidentally pick a poisonous variant of something, then she'd have eliminated her whole family once she cooked. If a man was colour blind, it'd have less consequences on carrying on his genes. 

 

Also, our hunter and gatherers were a lot happier than we are now; they had far more leisure time, and less war. They had more sex on average, they dedicated their time to music and arts, they passed down stories, and developed their culture. There was a division of labour, but the range of their work was far more limited. Hunt, gather, raise children (both parents did), have fun. It sounds like an awesome lifestyle. It was! However, the climate didn't allow for this nomadic lifestyle to continue. For some reason, we had to settle, which led to a decrease in lifespan and leisure hours, and some would argue 'sowed the seeds' for future warfare, slavery, and even sexism. 

 

However, agriculture was only possible (and probably saved humanity's butt) because of one woman whom we know as the Mother of Agriculture. She must have realized that where they would discard the seeds would be where the new plants grow, and from that she would have experimented and voila, taught it to the rest. Does this mean that men are inept at growing things because it was a woman who did it back then? Definitely not. However, growing crops and farming is tough work. Men and women did it, but now the division of labour became more stark, and because women had been designated to take care of children and thus the home, it sprung a lot of issues between the sexes that for a large part of our evolutionary history was not there. 

 

The topic is a lot more complex than can be argued here, and it's one theory. However, the point I want to stress and close with is that these differences are exaggerated. We're all more likely to be average at what we do; when people talk about 'men are better' they're looking at the exceptional ends of the curve. Most of us are not in there. The idea that if you had two of the world's best mathematicians, and one was male and one was female, that the male would probably be better given the advantage he has in his neurological make up, that that should speak to the rest of us is just nonsense. The majority of people, when taken as a group, perform on average. Men and women are on average, average at math. We are not that much less unlikely that we'll score around that, and it's not that unlikely that we'll be outperforming some men at math. People are very complex, thus that we far more differences between men, than we do between men and women as a whole. 

 

That's why the idea of wanting 'men at your back' because you think they'll be better at something, doesn't really help you in that matter. You're not likely to have the world's finest working with you, and people will have their strengths and weaknesses on any given project. We're not uniform robots. You hire people whom you think would be qualified for the job. The problem is these kind of ideas bar perfectly qualified men and women from attaining the careers they're suited for. 



#56 Hanabi

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 01:02 PM

 

BOOM. 

 

This is not only a problem with Naruto, but with anime overall. The males are the useful ones, the females are the supporters. I mean, as far as female-empowering manga/anime, we have Sailor Moon, and.... and.... and.... we have Sailor Moon....

wait wat

<- look at my fav anime/manga


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#57 KonaKonaFan

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 01:09 PM

wait wat

<- look at my fav anime/manga

 

Never seen it, so I can't judge.


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#58 Hanabi

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 01:17 PM

 

Never seen it, so I can't judge.

there's a lot of other female-empowering manga/anime, if you want i can recommend you some


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#59 shadow_Uzumaki

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 02:41 PM

 

BOOM. 

 

This is not only a problem with Naruto, but with anime overall. The males are the useful ones, the females are the supporters. I mean, as far as female-empowering manga/anime, we have Sailor Moon, and.... and.... and.... we have Sailor Moon....

Puella Madoka is basically an entire female cast....and an utterly depressing story but no relevant males whatsoever (except Kyubey but that...thing doesn't really have a "gender").  FMA has female characters that are badasses themselves (actually most of the named characters are badasses), Magical Girl Nanoha is pretty much what happens when you blend Gundam and the Magical Girl genre together, with an implicitly (possibly?) lesbian main couple.  Not to say about Black Lagoon, where EVERYONE, male and female, are badasses.  There's plenty of anime out there where males aren't always the main useful characters.

 

Of course, as I am a male, and by default a "pig," I probably wouldn't know a well-written female if it smashed me in the face.


Edited by shadow_Uzumaki, 26 June 2014 - 02:42 PM.


#60 Lucky Star

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 03:09 PM

Puella Madoka is basically an entire female cast....and an utterly depressing story but no relevant males whatsoever (except Kyubey but that...thing doesn't really have a "gender").  FMA has female characters that are badasses themselves (actually most of the named characters are badasses), Magical Girl Nanoha is pretty much what happens when you blend Gundam and the Magical Girl genre together, with an implicitly (possibly?) lesbian main couple.  Not to say about Black Lagoon, where EVERYONE, male and female, are badasses.  There's plenty of anime out there where males aren't always the main useful characters.

 

Of course, as I am a male, and by default a "pig," I probably wouldn't know a well-written female if it smashed me in the face

Being a well written character doesn't equal being a "badass"

 

But essentially yes, there are plenty of animes/manga that have a well written female characters, strong female relationships etc. despite the unfortunate complicated cultural issues in Japan.(i'd also include basically every Miyazaki film and shingeki no kyojin) But that's the point. Some don't feel entirely comfortable with many of the excuses people make for certain shounen manga...

 

Also thanks for that classic "not all men" slogan in the last line, it was really effective!!! (sarcasm)


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