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TsunadexJiraiya and NaruSaku.


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#1 Sono

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Posted 13 August 2006 - 11:36 AM

This might be interesting and contribute to NaruSaku. As we all know, Naruto, Sakura and Sasuke all in a way represent their teacher, each Sannin.

Naruto - Jiraiya
Sakura -Tsunade
Sasuke - Orochimaru.


Well, I was looking around Wikipedia and I found something that may be noteworth under Tsunade's personal trvia.


* The names of Tsunade, Jiraiya and Orochimaru come from the Jiraiya Goketsu Monogatari (児雷也豪傑物語, "The Tale of the Gallant Jiraiya") from Japanese literature. The Tsunade in this story excelled in snail magic and was married to Jiraiya.
* The name "Tsunade" (綱手) can mean "Hand of Iron or Mooring Rope".
* The word "Hime" (姫, "Princess") is attached to Tsunade's name, because she is the granddaughter of the First Hokage. However, the real reason people call her Tsunade-hime might be the sense of awe and fear they have for her, or it could even be a tongue-in-cheek mocking of Tsunade's inflated opinion of herself.
* Tsunade is known for her ample chest. Ironically, as children, Jiraiya referred to her as "Flat-Chested Tsunade", thus issuing a scolding and/or beating (this happened twice in two separate episodes). Many fans argue that her figure is attributed to her expert use of Henge no Jutsu, and another theory is that she used herbal supplements due to her medical expertise, while others theorized that she underwent a growth spurt during puberty. However, it is most likely the latter as flashback sequences showed she was big-busted and had already developed quite the figure when she was with her little brother, Nawaki and her boyfriend, Dan. Her Henge no Jutsu simply made her look younger.
* The symbol on the back of her coat, 賭 ("kake"), means "gamble," or "wager," as gambling is one of her favorite past-times.
* Even though she and Naruto don't always get along, they do care about each other. Tsunade thinks of Naruto as a younger brother, much like her deceased brother Nawaki. Also, Naruto is quite loyal to Tsunade. She is referred to by Naruto as "Tsunade-baa-chan" or "Granny Tsunade/Old Lady Tsunade", a sign of his affection towards her. She is aware of this but was only angered by it until recently, and now no longer minds it.
* Tsunade is the first female Hokage.
* So far Tsunade's original appearance has not been shown, except during that time where she ran out of her chakra after she and Jiraiya battled Orochimaru, she turned back into her original form; although her face was not revealed.
* Fans have pointed out that Tsunade, along with Orochimaru and Jiraiya, follow a trio trend. In a sense, Tsunade was the "Sakura" of her group, while Orochimaru and Jiraiya were the "Sasuke" and "Naruto". Interestingly, during the time jump, she trains Sakura, while Orochimaru trains Sasuke and Jiraiya trains Naruto. The same trend follows in Kakashi's original team with him as the "Sasuke", Rin as the "Sakura", and Obito as the "Naruto". After Obito's death, though, Kakashi takes a role between that of Sasuke and Naruto's depending on the circumstances.
* Masashi Kishimoto was asked if he were to be able to be someone's voice he replied saying Tsunade.


Now, I mainly focus on the main point which says, "The names of Tsunade, Jiraiya and Orochimaru come from the Jiraiya Goketsu Monogatari (児雷也豪傑物語, "The Tale of the Gallant Jiraiya") from Japanese literature. The Tsunade in this story excelled in snail magic and was married to Jiraiya."

-Was married to Jiraiya-
Furthermore, since most of team seven mimicks their teacher in a way, would that mean that Naruto and Sakura mimick Jiraiya and Tsunade?

Though it may sound trivial, the story of 'The Tale of the Gallant Jiraiya' was focused entirely on Jiraiya defeating his nemisis, Orochimaru. However, Jiraiya found it proved difficult to fight him alone, so together with his wife they defeated him.


Jiraiya, literally `Young Thunder', was the scion of a powerful clan from Kyushu. When the family fell on hard times he went to Echigo province, now Niigata Prefecture, became a freebooter and rose to the position of chief of a chivalrous band of robbers. He was initiated into toad magic by an immortal who resided on Mount Myoko, popularly known as Echigo Fuji. He failed to overcome and kill a hated rival, an older man named Sarashina, who was the cause of his family's ruin.

Jiraiya fell in love and married Tsunade, a beautiful young woman who was skilled in snail magic. Later, one of Jiraiya's followers, Yashagoro, was overcome by the spell of a serpent and became skilled in serpent magic. He took the name Orochimaru (Orochi means `monstrous snake') and attacked Jiraiya. Together with his wife, Jiraiya did battle with this magician, but they were infected with the serpent's venom and fell unconscious. Fortunately another of Jiraiya's followers, whose life he had once saved, came to his rescue. At this point, without conclusion, the tale abruptly ends.

Toad, serpent, bird, spider, and snail magic were the principal types of magic practiced by thaumaturges in old Japan. They were supposed to be incompatible with each other, but in this story, at least, love found a way.

All this is recounted in a serial novel titled Jiraiya Goketsu Monogatari (The Tale of the Gallant Jiraiya) written by different hands and published in 43 installments from 1839 to 1868. Kunisada, among others, provided the illustrations. The playwright Kawatake Mokuami composed a drama based on the first ten parts of the novel, which was produced, under the same title, at the Kawarasaki Theater in Edo in the 7th month of 1852 with Ichikawa Danjuro VIII in the leading role.

The character of Jiraiya is said to have been modeled after that of Prince Mitsuuji in the play Genji Moyo Furisode Hinagata (see Chapter 5 on Prince Genji), in which the same actor, Ichikawa Danjuro VIII, had scored a big hit the preceding year. It is interesting to note that Danjuro committed suicide by cutting his throat in a hotel room the night before the opening of Jiraiya Goketsu Monogatari in Osaka in 1854.



And yet, if you switch around the names from Jiraiya to Naruto, Tsunade to Sakura and Orochimaru to Sasuke, it sounds somewhat like our story does it not?
Discuss.


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#2 PhantomNinja

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Posted 13 August 2006 - 03:20 PM

I had actually read up on this, and my friend and I were discussing this yesterday because we were watching the eppsodes right be fore the fillers start, and reading the second part of the manga againg.

One can not deny the similarties between each Sannin and their pupil i.e.: Jiraiya and Naruto (the failure at the beginning,perversion) Tsunade and Sakura (beauty, medical skills, monsterous strenght), and Orochimaru and Sasuke (calm, the smart one at the beginning, the lust for power).

Now with this in mind, another question came up. If the 3 sannin and Team 7 are interlinked like that, did Tsunade have a crush on Orochimaru in the beginning? O.O something we pondered upon.

But if Kishi based his characters on the tale (which he had to... there's too many similarities...) then perhaps we might see JiraiyaxTsunade in the near future? Which would also mean the comming of NaruSaku?

And as for Sasuke and Orochimaru... does that mean they will both die?

Very interesting point Sono, glad you posted it.



#3 GoNeKr@zY

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Posted 13 August 2006 - 04:28 PM

Though I hate to take away your steam this topic has already been discussed THOUROUGHLY! I'm not exactly sure but check out the "Training for the Job" Discussion thread. It was Desaix that brought up the legend numerous months (almost a year) ago. The detailed discussion SHOULD be in there somewhere...

#4 Hopestar

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 01:34 AM

well we can't be for certain because I honesty dont see Tsunade & Jiraiya as a couple though would be hircalous to see. I dont know....

From what I hear on the SSvs.NS if NaruSaku were to happen it would have to be after the Sasuke retrival time period, by then we would know where everyones head is at especially Sakura's since its up to her of choosing who she wants.

Either the man who had ingore her and will go through such lengths in retrieving power for vengence in selfish reqirements or the man who had been by her side and remaining to be her protector and hope through the eyes of others.
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#5 MTEk

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Posted 15 August 2006 - 10:21 PM

QUOTE (Hopestar @ Aug 13 2006, 06:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
well we can't be for certain because I honesty dont see Tsunade & Jiraiya as a couple though would be hircalous to see. I dont know....

From what I hear on the SSvs.NS if NaruSaku were to happen it would have to be after the Sasuke retrival time period, by then we would know where everyones head is at especially Sakura's since its up to her of choosing who she wants.

Either the man who had ingore her and will go through such lengths in retrieving power for vengence in selfish reqirements or the man who had been by her side and remaining to be her protector and hope through the eyes of others.

i dont see em getting together either, but i do maybe seeing something like a little filler where tsunade talks about jiraiya and how she liked him for like a day or something because maybe he couldve saved her during a mission and showed his true colours or something.. anyway something about SS vs NS thats been worrying me.. lately all the manga and anime i've read and watched.. the main male hero never goes out with the one he likes.. they always 'realise' the one they truely like are the women who like them back and stuff like that.. but it's also argueable because sakura is actually showing signs of liking naruto back

#6 Hopestar

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 03:25 AM

See that's what I mean its very debatable and confusing. Though Sakura is showing signs that she likes him its could be as a friend or something, Kishi leaves her feelings very vague to figure. We know Naruto is still interested since he continues asking her out the only difference is that she isnt rejecting him. I still if they get together it will be tragic since that's where most of their moments in part 2 has been.

For Kishi making NaruHina would be very sudden if not develop carefully. I really doupt this coupling because I believe Hinata may actually idolize Naruto which can be mistaken for love.
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#7 No WhereMan

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 07:47 AM

Well that's the thing, and yes this has been discussed in this own forum section none the less, but thats neither here nor there. Anyway, from what we gathered the original amazing sannin were failures in their own right. Look, Orochimaru defected and is now one of Konoha's greatest enemies. Tsunade, fled Konoha after the event with Dan, she's now an alone woman that wouldn't have come back to Konoha if not for the great lengths of Naruto's interventions. Jiraiya, also left Konoha. Also probably wouldn't have returned if not for Naruto's appearance.

In a sense I get the feeling that the majority of the Sannin, have to do the "please don't do what we did," view when speaking to their students. Orochimaru not included because he thinks he's god or something. But the other two couldn't help bring back their fallen team mate.

Now for the Tsunade/Jiraiya thing, didn't Jiraiya ask her out before when they were younger and she flatly refused her. So if there is any affection between them, its one-sided with Jiraiya, but even he's not too pressed to get with her anymore. He probably believes he has a greater chance with gaining the attention of a youg girl then going after Tsunade. (flawed as that logic is) But as for the pairing having a future, I think they realize its too late in the game for such things besides they have more important duties to attend to. If anything I the two of them just ending things a just good friends.

Besides not everyone has to be paired with someone in a series, too many people make that assumption.

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#8 Sono

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 11:16 AM

QUOTE
anyway something about SS vs NS thats been worrying me.. lately all the manga and anime i've read and watched.. the main male hero never goes out with the one he likes.. they always 'realise' the one they truely like are the women who like them back and stuff like that.. but it's also argueable because sakura is actually showing signs of liking naruto back


That's a double edged sword because Sakura liked Sasuke that way as well which also says that Sakura wont pair up with Sasuke in that logic. Also, it's cliche for the main character and leading female role to have the female not like the main character but later up pair up with them.


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#9 MTEk

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 12:45 PM

QUOTE (Sono @ Aug 17 2006, 04:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
it's cliche for the main character and leading female role to have the female not like the main character but later up pair up with them.

true, cliche indeed, althought kishimoto does come up with bullsh** surprises sometimes.

#10 Hopestar

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 04:23 PM

Wellhe's very one unpredicable author that anyone had ever seen. Which is partly why Naruto is popular and is better fair against DBZ.
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#11 No WhereMan

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 10:24 AM

QUOTE (Hopestar @ Aug 17 2006, 04:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wellhe's very one unpredicable author that anyone had ever seen. Which is partly why Naruto is popular and is better fair against DBZ.


Naruto is more popular now, because DBZ has been and do its thing. Keep in mind DB the whole series has been out since the mid 80's. It's had a very long reign as one of the most popular anime series of all time.

I mean Naruto is good and is one of my current favorite Animes/Manga. But Naruto is still a baby compared to the history DB has.

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#12 Sono

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 04:09 PM

Also realize, Naruto and Sakura getting together goes along with Naruto's whole 'Never give up on something when you have your eyes set on it.'


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#13 fallen_angel_beckons

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 03:24 AM

Hah hah, I thought I was the only one who noticed this and said it aloud.

Interesting No? :3 a_dance.gif


I just noticed... Naruto gonna turn into a pervert XD

ZOMG... cute gaara >w<
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#14 No WhereMan

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 04:56 AM

QUOTE (fallen_angel_beckons @ Aug 24 2006, 11:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hah hah, I thought I was the only one who noticed this and said it aloud.

Interesting No? :3 a_dance.gif


I just noticed... Naruto gonna turn into a pervert XD


Errr...Hello? The guy that created Harem No Jutsu, is gonna turn into a pervert? You don't say...
sleep.gif;;

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#15 Mel

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 03:05 AM

QUOTE (No WhereMan @ Aug 25 2006, 12:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (fallen_angel_beckons @ Aug 24 2006, 11:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hah hah, I thought I was the only one who noticed this and said it aloud.

Interesting No? :3 a_dance.gif


I just noticed... Naruto gonna turn into a pervert XD


Errr...Hello? The guy that created Harem No Jutsu, is gonna turn into a pervert? You don't say...
sleep.gif;;


Don't you see who he had as teacher! It's Jiraiya!! He's the biggest pervert in all Konoha and he's writing the stupid series of books, which Kakashi love so much... hum... but it's could be funny to see how the female populations of Konoha will react... lol...

#16 Hopestar

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 04:13 AM

Also almost all (except Iruka) his teachers are perverts so that doesn't helps the case. Who knows if he gets with Sakura he'll be straighten up besides I think she's the jealous type. With her jealous it be a presnt site to see and Naruto may find this way the hospital and possibilty a broken relationship.
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#17 No WhereMan

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 11:36 PM

QUOTE (Hopestar @ Sep 17 2006, 12:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Also almost all (except Iruka) his teachers are perverts so that doesn't helps the case. Who knows if he gets with Sakura he'll be straighten up besides I think she's the jealous type. With her jealous it be a presnt site to see and Naruto may find this way the hospital and possibilty a broken relationship.


Didn't Iruka react also to the Harem No Jutsu, so doesn't that mean he's a pervert as well?

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#18 Random Nobody

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 11:51 PM

QUOTE (No WhereMan @ Sep 17 2006, 06:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Hopestar @ Sep 17 2006, 12:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Also almost all (except Iruka) his teachers are perverts so that doesn't helps the case. Who knows if he gets with Sakura he'll be straighten up besides I think she's the jealous type. With her jealous it be a presnt site to see and Naruto may find this way the hospital and possibilty a broken relationship.


Didn't Iruka react also to the Harem No Jutsu, so doesn't that mean he's a pervert as well?


Actually it means he's straight ( Take that Kakashi x Iruka fans tongue.gif ) since I doubt anyone could resist that jutsu (with obvious exceptions)

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#19 Shadow0fabandit

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Posted 18 September 2006 - 07:20 PM

QUOTE (Random Nobody @ Sep 17 2006, 11:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (No WhereMan @ Sep 17 2006, 06:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Hopestar @ Sep 17 2006, 12:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Also almost all (except Iruka) his teachers are perverts so that doesn't helps the case. Who knows if he gets with Sakura he'll be straighten up besides I think she's the jealous type. With her jealous it be a presnt site to see and Naruto may find this way the hospital and possibilty a broken relationship.


Didn't Iruka react also to the Harem No Jutsu, so doesn't that mean he's a pervert as well?


Actually it means he's straight ( Take that Kakashi x Iruka fans tongue.gif ) since I doubt anyone could resist that jutsu (with obvious exceptions)



Well, that and I'd also like to say Naruto is interested in sakura and Sasuke cares about no one. (Take that Narusasu fans happy.gif )

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#20 IchaIcha

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Posted 19 September 2006 - 06:35 AM

Thats a really interesting connection! You do a lot of research! But Jiraiya in the story and Jiraiya in the series don't result to the same outcome. I'm pretty sure that Kishimoto just named Jiraiya's character, Jiraiya to make him sound legendary. Not to mention that Kishimoto does take a lot of influence on existing ideas and changes them, no?

QUOTE
Also almost all (except Iruka) his teachers are perverts so that doesn't helps the case. Who knows if he gets with Sakura he'll be straighten up besides I think she's the jealous type. With her jealous it be a presnt site to see and Naruto may find this way the hospital and possibilty a broken relationship.

Sakura? The jealous type? :o




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