79 replies to this topic

[redragon88]

One thing you guys should note:
Yamatos statement was a hint of romance. If we compare it with the databook, theres no way around, unless youre not sure of your feeling if its just friendship.

Not to be rude, but people who dont see the hinted romance in there are just in denial. I mean come on, yamatos grin, sakuras shocked face and the "hmpf" in the beginning if yamatos sentence. Sorry but theres no way around.

Hey, don't blame the messenger. I was merely responding to Poison's question.

I do believe it's also very obvious that what Yamato implied was also 100% romantic. It's actually one of my top reasons as to why NS not being canon would look extremely awkward.

[PhenixElite]

Hey, don't blame the messenger. I was merely responding to Poison's question.

I do believe it's also very obvious that what Yamato implied was also 100% romantic. It's actually one of my top reasons as to why NS not being canon would look extremely awkward.

Im not blaming you for it, i just took your post as general respond. It wasnt ment especially for you.

[Liu bie]

This.

Everything up to the point of the manga would be a huge plot hole.

You know what they should do, have the Naruto anime end in NH since the NH fans follow that and have the manga end in NS. Everyone wins. I don't watch the anime anyway.

If NS didn't happen in the end what do you think would feel awkward in retrospect?

I think it would not be awkward in the manga, but the in the anime yes like some people said because the fillers.

I am thinking like James, but different endings in general not, but different NS version one or NH in another.

Besides some other series have different endings like example Chibi vampire.

[PhenixElite]

If NS didn't happen in the end what do you think would feel awkward in retrospect?

I think it would not be awkward in the manga, but the in the anime yes like some people said because the fillers.

I am thinking like James, but different endings in general not, but different NS version one or NH in another.

Besides some other series have different endings like example Chibi vampire.

It would also be extremly arkward in the manga, just saying. The fillers are the smallest problem.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

It would also be extremly arkward in the manga, just saying. The fillers are the smallest problem.

Would you like to list some of things that would be awkward in the manga if NS didn't happen? The only one I can think of is Yamato's statement. All else, to me, can be explained by Naruto's onesided crush (Naruto asking Sakura out and so on) or just as plain friendship moments (the hug etc).

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Would you like to list some of things that would be awkward in the manga if NS didn't happen? The only one I can think of is Yamato's statement. All else, to me, can be explained by Naruto's onesided crush (Naruto asking Sakura out and so on) or just as plain friendship moments (the hug etc).

This is funny you said that the holdholding is purely romantic but the hug wasnt, when Sakura hugs Sasuke on the hospital was romantic but for Naruto wasnt.
Double standards everywhere.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 10 January 2013 - 11:38 PM.

[PhenixElite]

Would you like to list some of things that would be awkward in the manga if NS didn't happen? The only one I can think of is Yamato's statement. All else, to me, can be explained by Naruto's onesided crush (Naruto asking Sakura out and so on) or just as plain friendship moments (the hug etc).

The whole buildup of their realtionship would be awkeard. All kishi has done with them, like poal, showing naruto love sakira from chapter 3, showing sakura developing romantic frelings for naruto, the feeding scene, the hug(defenetly not out of friendship), naruto asking sakura about 100 dates and is shown to love her in a selfless way , all the parralells abd naruto doibg whatever he can to win sakuras affection. But in the end it was all just useless because naruto endes up with hinata who had like nearly no development with him.

If it was naruto only showing a onesided crush it would e sonething different, but why should kishi then start in part 2 wirth showing sakura developing romantic feelings for naruto and sharing a lot of time together instead of showing hin spending some time with hinata, if he then just ends it with NH out of the blue toltally undeveloped through the manga?

NS not becoming canon wouldnt just destroy naruto character and sakuras character, no it would also destroy the biggez part of the manga.

Im not expecting you to agree with me, since i know youve got a completly different view on the manga.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

If that line of Yamato truly wasn't meant to be a hint of romance then Kishi really, really, really, really, really will need to address that before the end.

Yeah. I understand that moment from the writing POV. But what, in-universe, was Yamato going say? What did he think Sakura felt for Naruto and what was he going to say? Did he think that Sakura was in love with Naruto and just was mistaken? Kishi really should include Yamato flashbacking to that moment and let him explain himself, just to ease my mind.

--

Scene:

Naruto and Hinata's wedding.

NH:

Sakura:

Yamato: Sakura, do you remember how we got interrupted that one time? Well, I was just going to say that [insert the explanation]. So now you know.

Sakura:

--
Come on, Kishi, do this!

I get what you say about red herrings, it's just a manner of opinion in the end, you're also free to have your own vision. But from our perspective the amount of tease and build up NS has gotten would make it feel weird for it to look like just a red herring. From our point of view the ones with better red herring potential are NH and SS.

SS and NH could certainly be red herrings. Though, in their moments, it's always been clear that the girls' intentions are romantic. We have always known that Sakura loves Sasuke and that Hinata loves Naruto. With Sakura --> Naruto, all we get are just hints that Sakura might be in love with Naruto and there is always room to think that she, well, might not.

One thing you guys should note:
Yamatos statement was a hint of romance. If we compare it with the databook, theres no way around, unless youre not sure of your feeling if its just friendship.
Not to be rude, but people who dont see the hinted romance in there are just in denial. I mean come on, yamatos grin, sakuras shocked face and the "hmpf" in the beginning if yamatos sentence. Sorry but theres no way around.

Yes, it was a hint. Just that. It was no confirmation, no definite romantic moment. Just a hint that could be taken as a foreshadowing for NS or, like I do, as a red herring. I haven't read the databooks so I have no idea what they say or do not say. Without any context I can't really talk about any hints in them.

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 10 January 2013 - 11:48 PM.

[PhenixElite]

Yeah. I understand that moment from the writing POV. But what, in-universe, was Yamato going say? What did he think Sakura felt for Naruto and what was he going to say? Did he think that Sakura was in love with Naruto and just was mistaken? Kishi really should include Yamato flashbacking to that moment and let him explain himself, just to ease my mind.

--

Scene:

Naruto and Hinata's wedding.

NH:

Sakura:

Yamato: Sakura, do you remember how we got interrupted that one time? Well, I was just going to say that [insert the explanation]. So now you know.

Sakura:

--
Come on, Kishi, do this!


SS and NH could certainly be red herrings. Though, in their moments, it's always been clear that the girls' intentions are romantic. We have always known that Sakura loves Sasuke and that Hinata loves Naruto. With Sakura --> Naruto, all we get are just hints that Sakura might be in love with Naruto and there is always room to think that she, well, might not.


Yes, it was a hint. Just that. It was no confirmation, no definite romantic moment. Just a hint that could be taken as a foreshadowing for NS or, like I do, as a red herring. I haven't read the databooks so I have no idea what they say or do not say. Without any context I can't really talk about any hints in them.

Read the databook and you know that this scene had a lot of romantic intent. But i think even without it ita incredible obvious.

[sushi.]

When Sakura hugged Sasuke, it was all angsty and it was like he didn't care for her compassion at all.
But when she hugged Naruto, it was like he questioned himself "is this really happening?". Much like his reaction to her attempt to feed him.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

Read the databook and you know that this scene had a lot of romantic intent. But i think even without it ita incredible obvious.

If it was available online the same way the manga is, I would. As long as it isn't, I am just going by the manga. The manga is the primary work, after all. All the databooks of the world could say that Sakura was unsure how she felt about Naruto, but if the manga never mentions this, it means nothing. The Yamato scene really isn't that obvious: if anything, it is, on purpose, vague.

[sushi.]

If it was available online the same way the manga is, I would. As long as it isn't, I am just going by the manga. The manga is the primary work, after all. All the databooks of the world could say that Sakura was unsure how she felt about Naruto, but if the manga never mentions this, it means nothing. The Yamato scene really isn't that obvious: if anything, it is, on purpose, vague.

There are so many hints in the manga, I need no direct confirmation to believe that she is confused about her feelings for Naruto.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

Okay. I took PhenixElite's "awkward moments" list and sort of countered them. Tell me what you all think, if you want.

The whole buildup of their realtionship would be awkeard. All kishi has done with them, like poal

PoaL could be considered as the moment Naruto gave up the hope of being with Sakura having now realized that she loves Sasuke that much. PoaL could very easily work in SS's (love that word) favour.

showing naruto love sakira from chapter 3

Why would this be awkward? Naruto loved Sakura but it wasn't to be and he moved on. Then he found love with someone else.

showing sakura developing romantic frelings for naruto,

There is no development of that kind. There are only possible moments that could be interpreted in romantic way. Such as the feeding scene and the hug. But these could just be Sakura being a friend to Naruto. Friends support their friends, hug them and help them out if they are hurt.

naruto asking sakura about 100 dates and is shown to love her in a selfless way

This wouldn't be awkward either. Naruto was in love with Sakura but then he just moved on.

all the parralells

If NS never happens, it still parallels ObiRin and JiraTsu. NS even has similarities to MinaKushi even if NS never happens. MinaKushi will remain a sort of example of what NS could have been if it happened.

abd naruto doibg whatever he can to win sakuras affection. But in the end it was all just useless because naruto endes up with hinata who had like nearly no development with him.

It wasn't useless: Sakura became his good and trusted friend.

If it was naruto only showing a onesided crush it would e sonething different, but why should kishi then start in part 2 wirth showing sakura developing romantic feelings for naruto and sharing a lot of time together instead of showing hin spending some time with hinata, if he then just ends it with NH out of the blue toltally undeveloped through the manga?

Well, like I said, there is no development of that kind: we don't still know if Sakura has romantic feelings for Naruto. There are only possible moments that could be interpreted in romantic way. Kishi has kept Sakura's feelings for Naruto very vague. Kishi showed Sakura and Naruto spending time together because their bond is important and a part of the manga, even if the bond is just platonic.

Im not expecting you to agree with me, since i know youve got a completly different view on the manga.

Yeah. And I don't expect you to answer me, if you don't want to. I just thought to give my POV to your examples.

There are so many hints in the manga, I need no direct confirmation to believe that she is confused about her feelings for Naruto.

Well, I do.

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 11 January 2013 - 12:31 AM.

[Slextrem]

If it was available online the same way the manga is, I would. As long as it isn't, I am just going by the manga. The manga is the primary work, after all. All the databooks of the world could say that Sakura was unsure how she felt about Naruto, but if the manga never mentions this, it means nothing. The Yamato scene really isn't that obvious: if anything, it is, on purpose, vague.

I believe this is the databook panel that Phenix is referring to:

Edited by Slextrem, 11 January 2013 - 12:36 AM.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

I believe this is the databook panel that Phenix is referring to:

Thanks. I don't really see, though, how that is supposed to confirm Sakura's feelings for Naruto. All it just says is basically what Sakura herself says in the confession to Naruto. That Naruto is a good guy and has always helped her. And the databook goes to add that Sakura is unsure how she feels, when in the confession Sakura lied about having fallen in love with Naruto because of these reasons. Was the databook published before or after the confession chapters?

[Slextrem]

Thanks. I don't really see, though, how that is supposed to confirm Sakura's feelings for Naruto. All it just says is basically what Sakura herself says in the confession to Naruto. That Naruto is a good guy and has always helped her. And the databook goes to add that Sakura is unsure how she feels, when in the confession Sakura lied about having fallen in love with Naruto because of these reasons. Was the databook published before or after the confession chapters?

I believe it was published before the confession, but I wouldn't be so quick to brush it off. The confession is a sticky mess because of the many different ways to interpret it:

a) The entire confession is a lie
b) Sakura was truthful about some things, but lied about loving Naruto
c) Sakura lied about no longer loving Sasuke, but her initial confession to Naruto was genuine
d) Sakura does love Naruto, but hasn't fully realized her feelings, so the confession comes off as fake
e) Doesn't matter either way, Naruto wants Sasuke in bed

etc, etc, etc...

Since the confession isn't solid proof of Sakura's feelings, whatever they may be, I still believe in what the databooks tell us. Sakura feels something for Naruto, but she's still unsure of what it is. I'm sure this will be brought up in the manga in due time and will either confirm or destroy NaruSaku.

There is also another panel in the databook that shows Sakura is feeling something romantic toward Naruto. It was published before the confession, but I'll throw it out here for fun:

... --Click here to view--

(Ignore the Kushina bit - I could only find this panel on a blog talking about the similarities between Kushina and Sakura. I'm referring to Naruto causing "her heart to beat faster")

Also, there is another one that was released after Hinata's confession that confirms Naruto's feelings for Sakura. This is part of why I believe 615 is just a red herring:

... --Click here to view--

The arrow that points from Naruto to Sakura still says "suki", even after Hinata's confession.
(Sorry, I couldn't get a hold of the translated copy of this panel. If anyone needs proof that Naruto's line to Sakura says "suki", compare it to Karin's line to Sasuke. We all know how she feels about Sasuke at this point in the series.)

You're right about following the manga though. What happens there is concrete and things very well could have changed since these have been published. I just like showing them off.

Edited by Slextrem, 11 January 2013 - 01:15 AM.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

I was thinking more that the databook might tease the upcoming summit arc where Sakura's feelings for Naruto did come up and were sort of talked about. The examples from other databooks are pretty vague, too. They could easily mean that Sakura is starting to fall for Naruto but are still vague enough not to confirm this.

The confession was pretty messy, yeah. I came away from it thinking that Naruto was in love with Sasuke that Sakura definitely still loved Sasuke. I see most of confession as a lie as well. Especially since right after the confession, Kakashi, Sai and Naruto talk at length how much Sakura loves Sasuke and is willing to do for him. But I guess the extent of Sakura's lies is up for debate.

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 11 January 2013 - 01:55 AM.

[Slextrem]

I was thinking more that the databook might tease the upcoming summit arc where Sakura's feelings for Naruto did come up and were sort of talked about. The examples from other databooks are pretty vague, too. They could easily mean that Sakura is starting to fall for Naruto but are still vague enough not to confirm this.

The confession was pretty messy, yeah. I came away from it thinking that Naruto was in love with Sasuke that Sakura definitely still loved Sasuke. I see most of confession as a lie as well. Especially since right after the confession, Kakashi, Sai and Naruto talk at length how much Sakura loves Sasuke and is willing to do for him. But I guess the extent of Sakura's lies is up for debate.

Ah, I understand what you mean~ They were published long before the Summit Arc took place, (at least a year beforehand; around the Tracking Itachi arc), so it's likely not a tease about her confession. That databook is simply stating that Sakura's feelings for Naruto have changed, but she doesn't know to what extent. It's not linked to any specific chapter - just her feelings in general in regard to Naruto.

Most people do see the confession as a lie. I'm a believer in option "d", Sakura does love Naruto, but hasn't full realized her feelings, so it comes off as fake.
It's complicated also because she has an ulterior motive behind confessing to Naruto: She was trying to get him to give up on Sasuke and come home with her. Then they would kill him with K11. If not, Sakura would continue with plan B and kill Sasuke herself, shouldering the burden on her own to avoid hurting Naruto and willing to take on his hatred.

What a mess... If NaruSaku is to become canon, I want a re-do confession from Sakura with no strings attached to it.



Chapter 474, eh?
...You know what I want? A chapter where we're given Sakura's perspective on her feelings. I'm tired of everyone else telling her how she feels.

"I'm the only one who knows what I'm thinking!" - Haruno Sakura, Naruto Shippuden Chapter 470

Edited by Slextrem, 11 January 2013 - 02:32 AM.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

Ah, I understand what you mean~ They were published long before the Summit Arc took place, (at least a year beforehand; around the Tracking Itachi arc), so it's likely not a tease about her confession. That databook is simply stating that Sakura's feelings for Naruto have changed, but she doesn't know to what extent. It's not linked to any specific chapter - just her feelings in general in regard to Naruto.

Most people do see the confession as a lie. I'm a believer in option "d", Sakura does love Naruto, but hasn't full realized her feelings, so it comes off as fake.
It's complicated also because she has an ulterior motive behind confessing to Naruto: She was trying to get him to give up on Sasuke and come home with her. Then they would kill him with K11. If not, Sakura would continue with plan B and kill Sasuke herself, shouldering the burden on her own to avoid hurting Naruto and willing to take on his hatred.

What a mess... If NaruSaku is to become canon, I want a re-do confession from Sakura with no strings attached to it.

Didn't someone in that arc also say that Sakura never thought that Naruto would accept her confession in the first place and alwats knew that Naruto would never give up on Sasuke? That would mean that she always meant to kill Sasuke alone, then? Messy, indeed.

Chapter 474, eh?
...You know what I want? A chapter where we're given Sakura's perspective on her feelings. I'm tired of everyone else telling her how she feels.

"I'm the only one who knows what I'm thinking!" - Haruno Sakura, Naruto Shippuden Chapter 470

I want this, too. It would clarify so much.

To try to steer this back to the original subject, Sakura's perspective has the potential to avoid many of the moments that might otherwise seem awkward to NS shippers if NS does not happen. If her perspective establishes that she has never had any romantic feelings for Naruto, then all the Sakura being kind to Naruto, wanting to protect him etc become just platonic moments and so on.

[Slextrem]

Didn't someone in that arc also say that Sakura never thought that Naruto would accept her confession in the first place and alwats knew that Naruto would never give up on Sasuke? That would mean that she always meant to kill Sasuke alone, then? Messy, indeed.

I want this, too. It would clarify so much.

To try to steer this back to the original subject, Sakura's perspective has the potential to avoid many of the moments that might otherwise seem awkward to NS shippers if NS does not happen. If her perspective establishes that she has never had any romantic feelings for Naruto, then all the Sakura being kind to Naruto, wanting to protect him etc become just platonic moments and so on.

You're right. That's why I feel the way I do about the confession. If she knew how Naruto would react, why bother giving a confession in the first place? This is why I don't use her confession as validation of anything. There is simply too much that needs to be clarified.

Sakura's perspective makes or breaks NaruSaku. From what we've been given so far, it seems she has established some feelings for Naruto but to what extent, we still don't know. That's why so many people here feel it would be awkward for them not to become canon. Her feelings for Naruto have been developing since Chapter 3, so to NaruSaku shippers, it seems like a waste to throw away all of that development. The pairing has been hinted numerous times throughout the series, even by other characters, (Konohamaru, Gamakichi, Sai, Yamato...), so it would be strange to not see them paired up at the end.

However, if it is shown that Sakura does not love Naruto, your post holds true. It would mean that we have been misinterpreting her interaction with Naruto from the get go.

Edited by Slextrem, 11 January 2013 - 03:08 AM.