62 replies to this topic

[shadow_Uzumaki]

Because of Danzo's Sharingan hax skillz??

[ciardha]

So does Naruto changing Sasuke! Yet it's still believed he will, so why not Danzou?

Because it would be like changing Hidan, Kakazu, Orochimaru, Madara some people are so messed up, they will not change no matter what. Of those four Orochimaru was the most changable, but only in the sense if a person proved strong enough he got interested enough to let that person live. The thrashing 4 tails Naruto gave Orochimaru gave him enough interest in that he was curious to see what he'd do staying alive.

Sasuke still has fragments of humanity left, the question is can Naruto reach him. Can Naruto reach the Raikage? The Tsuchikage will scoff, and not think it's likely- especially with Naruto's (and Gaara's) youth, but likely not be hardcore opposition. The Raikage will be quite difficult to convince but if Bee is alive I think Naruto will find him far easier to speak to and be listened to. If Naruto can convince Bee, then Bee can work on his older brother. Koharu and Homura (the two major elders) will be hard to convince, but I have a feeling not impossible. (Danzo always plotted against the Third and the Fifth- had to the Fourth, as well. Koharu and Homura sometimes work with the Hokage, and sometimes will compromise.)

[Dreamer]

Because it would be like changing Hidan, Kakazu, Orochimaru, Madara some people are so messed up, they will not change no matter what. Of those four Orochimaru was the most changable, but only in the sense if a person proved strong enough he got interested enough to let that person live. The thrashing 4 tails Naruto gave Orochimaru gave him enough interest in that he was curious to see what he'd do staying alive.

Sasuke still has fragments of humanity left, the question is can Naruto reach him. Can Naruto reach the Raikage? The Tsuchikage will scoff, and not think it's likely- especially with Naruto's (and Gaara's) youth, but likely not be hardcore opposition. The Raikage will be quite difficult to convince but if Bee is alive I think Naruto will find him far easier to speak to and be listened to. If Naruto can convince Bee, then Bee can work on his older brother. Koharu and Homura (the two major elders) will be hard to convince, but I have a feeling not impossible. (Danzo always plotted against the Third and the Fifth- had to the Fourth, as well. Koharu and Homura sometimes work with the Hokage, and sometimes will compromise.)

Yeah, I don't think it will be a pretty site when Tsuchikage finds out that Naruto is Yondaime's son. (Yondaime wiped out a bunch of Rock Ninja's)

[Freakazoid]

I'm waiting to see the Kage's reaction to Naruto being the Fourth's son. If Kishimoto will do something that epic.

[JABR]

The flaw with the UN comparison is that the real United Nations is also corrupt and filled with Dictators and various other immoral countries in positions of power and/or importance. Hence you have countries like China (Human rights violations) and others with major says in what happens.

So Naruto's way wouldn't work as it is currently envisioned.

Hence the final confrontation with Sasuke has to alter Naruto's dream somewhat. Focus less on the world and more on his village alone, for all the overtones and analogies between the Ninja world and ours to actually make sense and work out.

[Codus N]

The flaw with the UN comparison is that the real United Nations is also corrupt and filled with Dictators and various other immoral countries in positions of power and/or importance. Hence you have countries like China (Human rights violations) and others with major says in what happens.

So Naruto's way wouldn't work as it is currently envisioned.

Hence the final confrontation with Sasuke has to alter Naruto's dream somewhat. Focus less on the world and more on his village alone, for all the overtones and analogies between the Ninja world and ours to actually make sense and work out.

Not exactly, remember they don't have extreme ideals such as communism or whatsoever and say "your ideals are evil and we are the right ideals" and blah-blah.... When people are controlled by ideals it's a whole lot different than being controlled by hate. Basically, an ideal is like a "program" installed in your mind by the people in your community or your government. Ideals are planted in your brains from since when you were a child, which is very difficult to change or erase. While hatred is more of an emotion, it can stay in your heart or pass along. Basically the shinobi world is basically full of suspicion and hatred and that what makes it different from ours.

[harry4e]

Yeah, I don't think it will be a pretty site when Tsuchikage finds out that Naruto is Yondaime's son. (Yondaime wiped out a bunch of Rock Ninja's)

Oh that would be brilliant, the Tsuchikage see's Naruto, mistakes him for Yondaime and tries to attack him only to do his back in....kinda like the Chiyo/Kakashi scene, that was hilarious. I do wonder what would happen if he did find out that the Yondaime Hokage had sealed the most powerful of the Bijuu inside his own son, would the Tsuchikage think Minoto did it so they'd have a powerful weapon to use against his enemies or would he beleive the truth of how he had no choice in the matter.

[Cupcake-chan]

Gaara is the MAN!!! I luv him so much!
The chapter itself was okay, defenetly not my favorite.

Edited by Cecixx19, 30 August 2009 - 08:38 PM.

[ciardha]

Not exactly, remember they don't have extreme ideals such as communism or whatsoever and say "your ideals are evil and we are the right ideals" and blah-blah.... When people are controlled by ideals it's a whole lot different than being controlled by hate. Basically, an ideal is like a "program" installed in your mind by the people in your community or your government. Ideals are planted in your brains from since when you were a child, which is very difficult to change or erase. While hatred is more of an emotion, it can stay in your heart or pass along. Basically the shinobi world is basically full of suspicion and hatred and that what makes it different from ours.

Exactly.

The problem with the shinobi world is that everyone has focused only their village, their country. They have to think of the people in other countries as equal human beings with wants, needs, and ideals. That's already happened between Suna and Konoha and has created peace between them. The UN General Assembly model would work in Naruto's world, giving each country a say in decisions. And with the drop in hostility between nations the focus would become aid, trade, and mutual security. Thus Naruto brings a revolutionary change to the shinobi world that makes everyone's lives better as the prophecy said.

[Dreamer]

Exactly.

The problem with the shinobi world is that everyone has focused only their village, their country. They have to think of the people in other countries as equal human beings with wants, needs, and ideals. That's already happened between Suna and Konoha and has created peace between them. The UN General Assembly model would work in Naruto's world, giving each country a say in decisions. And with the drop in hostility between nations the focus would become aid, trade, and mutual security. Thus Naruto brings a revolutionary change to the shinobi world that makes everyone's lives better as the prophecy said.

Isn't that what the Kage Summit Meetings are suppose to be about, except that it isn't going the way it should.

[ciardha]

Isn't that what the Kage Summit Meetings are suppose to be about, except that it isn't going the way it should.

No, it's more like the G-8: where on a rare occasion for a few days only the leaders of the most powerful nations are allowed and they make decisions that effects the whole world. The UN General Assembly meets regularly, people serve terms (they are usually closely connected to their countries government but aren't the country's leader), and all nations that choose to be part of the UN get a say in the decisions. It's lead by a president who serves a term leads but not as a dictator, more like the president of the US (actually less powerful).

Edited by ciardha, 30 August 2009 - 10:27 PM.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

No, it's more like the G-8: where on a rare occasion for a few days only the leaders of the most powerful nations are allowed and they make decisions that effects the whole world. The UN General Assembly meets regularly, people serve terms (they are usually closely connected to their countries government but aren't the country's leader), and all nations that choose to be part of the UN get a say in the decisions. It's lead by a president who serves a term leads but not as a dictator, more like the president of the US (actually less powerful).

I believe the term is Secretary General....

[RyrineaHaruno]

I believe the term is Secretary General....

It is that term.


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I thought of this type of Government that ciardha is thinking of after Naruto defeated everyone. Naruto would think of something like the UN but only think that would be different is that the elected KAGE'S would agree with different terms and let their people VOTE for it. Instead, of the UN AND the Kage's Voting for it. I can also see some draw backs on this as well, but I think however that it could work out in long run.

[Nee-sama]

..... chapters like this make me want to quit reading until the whole manga is completed so I'm not always going "wah! I want to know what happens next!"

[ciardha]

I thought of this type of Government that ciardha is thinking of after Naruto defeated everyone. Naruto would think of something like the UN but only think that would be different is that the elected KAGE'S would agree with different terms and let their people VOTE for it. Instead, of the UN AND the Kage's Voting for it. I can also see some draw backs on this as well, but I think however that it could work out in long run.

Don't think Naruto wants to "defeat everyone" he's come to see talking and listening to others is better. He's not going to win everyone over that way, but he'll get some. And someone connected to the ones he has a hard time reaching will likely start thinking... Naruto didn't reach Karui or the Raikage, but Omoi is wondering about things. He didn't get through to Nagato by fighting Pain, he got through to Nagato by being willing to listen to his story and then talking with him (and by being honest about things). Heck he even got through to Itachi even before he'd figured that out, by honestly expressing how he felt. He actually got through to Gaara not through his fighting him, but from listening to Gaara's story and speaking from his heart. He got through to Tsunade and even Neiji by same way. He's gradually getting more knowledgeable about how to reach people without having to fight them. Naruto knows from Nagato how the less powerful countries have been harmed by the 5 powerful countries. I think this will make him eventually realize it can't just be the 5 most powerful Kage that make the decisions, everyone will have to have a say.

[RedDelicious]

Ciardha, to be fair, Naruto had to beat down Gaara and Naguto (Pein) first, until they would be willing to talk. Everyone in the manga, good or bad, started by thinking Naruto was a blowhard. (And some people on some of the discussion forums too.) It is after the fight, when they realize that he is serious and indomitable of will, that they stop to consider what Naruto is saying. But I agree that a fight, without the talk no jutsu as the finishing move, would not have worked.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

^ Same goes for Neji too, it is only by showing his prowess in battle that Neji's view of Fate controls all is shattered.... Naruto saying he wasn't a genius seals the deal.

[Cloud]

But as it stands now, imo... the UN is pretty much crippled by the superpowers. Anybody could veto a decision and it would screw somebody over. Not exactly the ideal system for the Naruverse.

"Let's help these people."

*VETO*

[Freakazoid]

Guess we won't get any spoilers tomorrow.

[Hopestar]

When will the next chapter be release?