160 replies to this topic

[max acorn]

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/457/00/

enjoy and discuss.

[KungFuTruffle]

What the hell, he's crying over Sasuke again?! Argh! It's stuff like this that makes me want to punch Naruto in the face! We're supposed to be on Naruto's side in this issue, but the Raikage has a damn fine point. You don't get anywhere by giving up and crying.

I just hope the other Team 7 members can knock some sense into him. Probably not, though.

[Lazy-Genius]

Yay Sai! He just shot up to #2 on my top character list (sorry, but no one can beat Shikamaru in my mind).

Maybe Sai'll start playing Mr. Matchmaker

I really hope that Sai's going to start a discussion on Sakura's feelings towards Naruto in the next chapter. I really liked that line about Naruto smiling so much because of Sakura. It makes me wonder if Naruto would've become a 2nd Sasuke without her.....Probably not, but still, it's an interesting thing to think about.

[Freakazoid]

I loved the un deniable Naruto-->Sakura bit in this chapter of course. However, Naruto stating himself Sasuke is not the same guy he knew anymore was nice for me. Raikage really layed into Naruto, I'm hoping it gets through to him before this new attitude destroys his character.

Edited by Freakazoid, 24 July 2009 - 06:04 AM.

[Mik3]

Hes acting the way plenty of people would concerning someone close to them. Hes willing to try anything to save his best friend. Hes human, Even when someone you love starts doing bad things its natural to try and hold on to a chance that there is some good is there. His character isn't getting ruined. Now begging Raikage to spare his friend is pretty dumb considering he took his brother.

[Freakazoid]

I stated my thoughts about Naruto's current attitude, and how it would ruin him trying to lead a village as Hokage in the spoiler thread. On another note, the suspense waiting for what Sai is going to talk with Sakura about is already killing me!

[NarutoNamikaze]

I stated my thoughts about Naruto's current attitude, and how it would ruin him trying to lead a village as Hokage in the spoiler thread. On another note, the suspense waiting for what Sai is going to talk with Sakura about is already killing me!

It has already killed me. I left in my will that i would like for Kishimoto to make my dream pair come true. Oh and my sister gets me car

[Mik3]

Im guessing Sai is gokng to tell Sakura all about this so she can talk to Naruto about these little acts of "friendship" hes pulling for Sasuke 's sake.

[dl316bh]

His character isn't getting ruined.

Ruined? No, that's definitely not the word I'd use. He's not coming off all that intelligently of late though.

I already stated my thoughts on this in the last post of the spoiler thread. In general, I've felt the bond was always something we were told more than actually shown. Major need for gobs of the old suspension of disbelief.

This is not to mention that I'm sure Naruto is coming off in a bad light to a lot of people in the manga about now. Rationally, there isn't much reason to hold on this much anymore. It's valid to think that Naruto isn't coming off badly here, but I think it's just as valid to think he's looking rather pathetic at the moment.

If you're supposed to be able to draw either conclusion in this, then that's cool, but if not that's a failure of the writing. Hell, maybe he's supposed to look pathetic at the moment. Who knows?

Edited by dl316bh, 24 July 2009 - 06:26 AM.

[Illmatic]

oh sleepyfans, you use the word love for hinata's confession, however you have Sai saying "like", i cant help but wonder which pairing they ship

[AnimeLeader]

Its a great chapter, I just didn't find it mature like when Naruto was crying to beg them from not killing Sasuke. I want spoilers for 458! I wanna know what Sakura says.

Also a friend and I are debating and she was like. " Kishimoto is doing the pairings slowly and he knows he has to choose between narusaku and naruhina. He knows if he chooses either or he'll loose a fanbase. So he knows he has to drop narusaku since hes a naruhina fan himself "

I asked her when did he say that and she never replied XD

edit: Why do NaruHina fans always start Kishi is a fan of NaruHina were in the world do they get this from? Their imagination?

Edited by AnimeLeader, 24 July 2009 - 07:04 AM.

[Daniee]

You gotta love Sai. He's getting to be quite a good friend. ^^
Hopefully he can give his two teammates the little push they need. I don't think he's going to tell Sakura about Naruto's feelings for her. Rather he'll talk to her about Sasuke and the lengths Naruto is going to for him. Whatever they talk about, I'm hoping it changes Sakura's thinking in a way so that the next time she and Naruto see each other will be epic.

Also, why does it it always feel like I'm the only one who understands Naruto's character and the themes of this manga? I guess I'm a little confused...just what do you all want Naruto to do regarding Sasuke? Give up? That would be a massive step back in his development and would go against a lot of the themes of the story. Chapter 237 firmly established Naruto as a person who wouldn't quit on something just because it's not "realistic." I could say more, but I don't really want to get into a mini-rant or anything.

[xTheDark3stAng3lx]

I felt really bad for Naruto this chapter... He was on his knees begging for Sasuke and he has unrequited love because of Sasuke...
Sasuke, you just love to torture poor Naruto don't you >=[?

[shadow_Uzumaki]

Hmm.....Well, I really think that Naruto handled it about as well as his character somewhat allows. While he has matured, he's still quite childish, resulting in him grovelling as others have put it. Though it'd been cool if he said all those things about preventing war between Kumo and Konoha without begging. He did make the Raikage look back, I'll give him that, regardless, I only see it as slightly OOC.

Edited by shadow_Uzumaki, 24 July 2009 - 07:52 AM.

[RRAlchemist]

edit: Why do NaruHina fans always start Kishi is a fan of NaruHina were in the world do they get this from? Their imagination?

My best guess is that it comes from this snippet of an interview Kishi did back in 2008. Watch/read from :35 to the end.

Interview --Click here to view--

With that, I see where they're coming from saying Kishi supports NaruHina. But it's just not enough to sway me away from NaruSaku even a little bit, not after all the recent developments and especially not in the face of all the evidence that's piled up since the very beginning.

Now, in regards to this chapter, I'm interested to see what will happen now that the summit has started, but I'm hoping that it doesn't consume so much of the next chapter that Sai and Sakura's "little" talk is pushed back to 459 or later because then I might just have to scream haha Naruto's begging didn't bother me as much as I thought it was going to but he really can't pull that kind of stuff anymore since it's just not going to get him anywhere. Overall, really good chapter. I'm now anxiously awaiting spoilers (while singing Sai's praises =])

Edited by RRAlchemist, 24 July 2009 - 08:20 AM.

[Verilance]

as i said after hinata's confession concerning that interview I think that was hinata's moment that kishimoto was referring too. naruto has always loved sakura from the beginning and unfortunately for other shipping fans they seem to gloss over that point or ignore it all together.

In this chapter Naruto did what he believed he had too I don't see the bowing as bad it is the way Japanese people ask for "extreme" forgiveness which he is for Sasuke'

and in case people say Sasuke isn't worth it. it doesn't matter what any other opinion of Sasuke is Naruto thinks he is

hopefully sai and Sakura will be joining them shortly lol

[Smiter]

You gotta love Sai. He's getting to be quite a good friend. ^^
Hopefully he can give his two teammates the little push they need. I don't think he's going to tell Sakura about Naruto's feelings for her. Rather he'll talk to her about Sasuke and the lengths Naruto is going to for him. Whatever they talk about, I'm hoping it changes Sakura's thinking in a way so that the next time she and Naruto see each other will be epic.

Also, why does it it always feel like I'm the only one who understands Naruto's character and the themes of this manga? I guess I'm a little confused...just what do you all want Naruto to do regarding Sasuke? Give up? That would be a massive step back in his development and would go against a lot of the themes of the story. Chapter 237 firmly established Naruto as a person who wouldn't quit on something just because it's not "realistic." I could say more, but I don't really want to get into a mini-rant or anything.

Sai is just awesome now.

I bloody spazzed at the NaruSaku part. It was beautifully done, and heartbreaking. I can't wait to see what Sakura's reaction will be to the news that Naruto has gone to beg for Sasuke's life. Will Sai also tell her about the beating he took?

Last week, I was disappointed to see Sakura left behind, and was afraid that she was being shunted to the side yet again. But this could turn out even better than I thought. Naruto practically confesses to Sai he loves Sakura, and Sakura is definitely going to be chasing after them.

The weird thing is that it's tying in so neatly with the fic I'm currently writing. This chapter is inspiring me to finish it faster! XD

Another thing I love about this chapter is that Kishimoto might be trying to make Naruto and Sakura be more realistic about Sasuke. Sai's questioned why Naruto should suffer so much, Naruto acknowledges that Sasuke's changed, and Sakura may be feeling the same way. There's nothing wrong with wanting peace and wanting everyone to be happy. But not everyone can - or wants to - be saved.

[Radon]

HOLY CRAP! How come no one is talking about how Mifune has the same eye as Madara!?

[dl316bh]

Also, why does it it always feel like I'm the only one who understands Naruto's character and the themes of this manga?

You're not. Just because the themes and direction of everything doesn't always make much sense doesn't mean we don't understand. Quite the opposite, actually.

I guess I'm a little confused...just what do you all want Naruto to do regarding Sasuke? Give up?

Not break down and cry over it in front of one of the big shots in the world out of nowhere. There was like no transition; the guy said "lets go" after the first bit and before you know it Naruto is on his knee's crying in front of a man he doesn't even know, perhaps weeping more over the loss of any dignity he had at that point than anything else. Way to go kid, great plan; let's try and convince a deadly ninja that the entire foundation of ninjustu is wrong and that a traitor should not be killed with a bunch of tears that probably wiped away any respect the man could have developed for you. This guy is supposed to take the kid seriously at this point?

I'm sorry, but I don't buy that breaking down and bawling out of nowhere was the best way to handle that. He doesn't have to break down into a sobbing mess in front of everyone every time Sasuke is mentioned to never give up. He doesn't have to act like a fool to never give up on Sasuke. He doesn't need to delude himself. I've said this time and time again. I don't think I come off as unreasonable or ridiculous. Maybe no one reads my posts; I don't know.

The whole "it's the themes/character/etc" deal whenever anyone doesn't just swallow the fed line is getting really old in general. I'm not even just talking about here and this manga, because I've been seeing that line thrown around all too much lately in regards to a lot of fiction. Something being the themes of the manga or fiction doesn't mean they suddenly don't have to hold to certain trains of logic, sense or human behavior. No matter how fantastic the surroundings, the abilities or the technology they still need to hold to those basic laws of characterization; this is one of those things that separates the wheat from the chaff when it comes to fiction and whether or not it will be taken seriously. If it's not meant to be taken even remotely serious, that's a completely different story, but Naruto does not fall under that umbrella.

I already pour on the suspension of disbelief when it comes to this manga, but that doesn't mean I'm going to just ignore anything ridiculous even within the context of the manga thanks to the themes of the manga. I know them well. I've talked about them before. I'm well aware of them. I still expect some consistency or coherency. I don't think that's too much to ask.

Maybe you don't think it's ridiculous. Fine. Cool. I do. I don't think my outlook is wrong either just because of the themes or Naruto's character. His goal is admirable. The way he's going about it makes him look like a pansy whom hasn't matured much at all. No one respects tears. Pity them maybe, maybe feel some sorrow, but not respect. This goes for fiction and in real life; the Raikage even more or less says this and he's not exactly hitting far from the bullseye.

Edited by dl316bh, 24 July 2009 - 10:17 AM.

[Daniee]

I'm sorry, but I don't buy that breaking down and bawling out of nowhere was the best way to handle that.

Sure, maybe it wasn't. Kakashi says on page 13 that Naruto isn't very good at this. He's not a perfect negotiator. He's 16 years old, and could never control his emotions well like the "calm and cool" types like Shikamaru or Gaara. That's how he is. It's pretty unfair to jump down his throat for it, and I don't see how it's foolishness or immaturity, especially since his intentions here are noble. And he's not looking for respect. He's trying to get his friend off the hook and prevent more senseless killing. Are people's lives not worth sacrificing a little dignity for? (Yeah, the way Naruto acted wasn't the best way to get through to Raikage, but it's the only way he knew how)

He doesn't have to act like a fool to never give up on Sasuke. He doesn't need to delude himself.

Well, his whole goal to save Sasuke is, in it's nature, pretty foolish. He knows it and doesn't care. But still, how is he "deluding himself"? You could say that before because he thought Sasuke was manipulated or something by Orochimaru/Itachi. But after all the stuff with Nagato, he now understands that hatred is ultimately what changed Sasuke.

Naruto is one of the most mature characters in the series. Being emotional does not make him an "immature pansy."