59 replies to this topic

[jworks]

^ No, that is incorrect. There was a shortage of MALES several thousand years ago in Europe. Therefore there was less food, and men could only support small families, so they were mostly monogamous.

Because there were so many women, the most "attractive" or "stand out" ones usually had a higher chance of finding a husband. These women, who had more unique colourings, were "selected for," resulting in the diversity among Caucasians today.

Bingo. You know, I always found it funny how traits like blue eyes and blonde hair are held as especially attractive features (in certain cultures of course) since when you look at the genes, it's actually caused by a deficiency.

I already mentioned a point about conflict/tension in the Narutoverse over nationalism which often comes from ethnicity. But another point that I just thought of is also how important kishi has made lineage in the series. Things like the theme of the new generation surpassing the old one. Also this whole deal about how naruto and sasuke are destined to clash because of their lineage (Sasuke to Madara and Naruto to Hashirama).

Anyway, I think there is definitely more ethnic diversity in Naruto than most manga I've seen and it's for a reason.

[Nefertieh]

That's much better, thanks. It's till not very clear how this ties in to the discussion though...

Jenskott's explanation is incorrect.

It ties into the discussion as to why people believe blondism is a Caucasian trait. Because it almost exclusively is.

[merryGOflava]

well only sakura and naruto seem white >:o i mean in konoha (oh wait ino too)

but everyone else seems asian.......oh wait tsunade too.

[Branden]

but the skin color...

[ciardha]

White skin has always been a mark of a nobel in many cultures, as it meant you did less labour work. Unlike Caucasians, Asians usually have a slightly darker skin colour, so there is no need to get a tan to look healthy.

Japanese people have around the most diversity in skin tone, eye color, hair color and curliness (they also have a lot of diversity in the amount body hair.) of Asian peoples. It's possible for a full blooded Japanese person to have pale skin, curly dark red hair- like a dark chestnut, and green eyes. It would be very rare, but it's within their genetic range. (which is probably why when a Japanese has children with a Caucasian their children tend to look more Caucasian than Asian.)

Pale skin was indeed a mark of nobility in pre Meiji Japan. (red hair and green eyes, however were not. There seems to be a hatred of red hair in many cultures outside of the Celtic peoples...)

Yoko Ono (when she doesn't have a tan- Japanese of her generation- who were in their teens during the US occupation are more likely, if naturally pale skinned, to have gotten into the western fad for "healthy tans" that came into Japan during that time) is an example of a pure blooded Japanese who has a very pale skin, naturally curly hair, and is also quite buxom for an Asian as well (D cup).

There's this fantastic picture in the book John Lennon: Family Album of John, Sean and Yoko with all her then living relatives in 1977. I didn't count how many people, but in just one large extended Japanese family the diversity of skin color, hair color, and hair curliness is more broad than you see in most western families until recently when biracial couples became much more common. Other than John and Sean everyone else in the picture is pure Japanese.... Yoko had cousins that basically looked Caucasian, cousins that looked Polynesian, and cousins than looked "typical Asian". Yoko's ancestry is elite- she is descended from a 9th century emperor on her father's side. Yoko's facial appearance in both youth and middle aged fit closely with the ideal of pre Meiji era aristocratic beauty- especially the Heian-Muromachi eras.

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[Sakamaki Izayoi]

well... i dont care.
leaving the thread in 3...2...1...

[kirabook]

I've always imagined them all to be japanese.... save the ones that are obviously drawn to be black.

[GlucoseGlutton]

I've always imagined them all to be japanese.... save the ones that are obviously drawn to be black.

Ditto . I usually just see them as Japenese because the manga is written/drawn by a Japenese person. When I see Kumo nin though I just go asdfghjkl they're black.. Cosplayable . Not that I cosplay but still..

[kirabook]

Ditto . I usually just see them as Japenese because the manga is written/drawn by a Japenese person. When I see Kumo nin though I just go asdfghjkl they're black.. Cosplayable . Not that I cosplay but still..

Hurr, same. XD
#1 reason I'm not into cosplay.... not very many colored peoples to cosplay!

[merryGOflava]

naruto dyes his hair!! *_* if it makes it easier to understand XD

[GlucoseGlutton]

Hurr, same. XD
#1 reason I'm not into cosplay.... not very many colored peoples to cosplay!

I know it's so annoying .

naruto dyes his hair!! *_* if it makes it easier to understand XD

That could apply to everyone in the series then . Their hair color industries must be making millions .

Edited by Bubbleyum, 07 September 2012 - 02:01 AM.

[Broken Figurine]

Well, Branden, you're asking why a majority of manga have white/pale/asian looks and I ask you to consider... Who is writing it? It's Japanese people, who tend to range in the lighter skin tones. There are some manga out there that focus on different ethnic groups-- First Girl for example is set in America and Latin countries while the main female character is Japanese. There is a manga novel called Colour that is about two slaves, one Japanese and another who's African (I don't believe it says what country he's from or where specifically) and it focuses on him, though I wasn't too impressed by the portrayal and story, it still had its good moments. People tend to write about and read about those who are similar to themselves or what their ideal is. It's similar to me looking at all these Indian female authors in Coles and Chapters and wondering why they never write about a white girl.

However, Kishimoto does add some various skin tones--though in a black and white manga it's pretty much white and black, I don't see much of an emphasis on ethnicity in the Naruto manga. It doesn't play that much of a factor like it does in our world (maybe we shouldn't). It's hard to put certain ethnicities on anime characters in the first place--since they have unnatural hair colour and all speak the same language. What would Kisame fall under?

[sushi.]

I consider the Uchihas, Sai, Shino, Kurenai, Anko, the Hyuuga and Nara clans as Asian. Maybe Akimichis too O_O
And Gaara? Ibiki? They should be OK either way.

I like the variety of these "races" (even though I don't really like that word ). It just shows that the Naruto universe is an entire world, and not a country.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

well... i dont care.
leaving the thread in 3...2...1...

...If you didn't care, you didn't need to post.


Anyway, I don't really see fictional characters in fictional worlds to be "Asian" or "Caucasian." Like someone mentioned, each country in the Naruto-verse all have different racial attributes to distinguish themselves, and much more specific, clans have racial traits that are unique to themselves. Uchiha have the pale skin, black hair color and the Hyuuga also have pale skin, purplish hair, and their distinctive eyes. While I don't doubt that fiction writers are influenced by real life racial attributes (write what you know, after all....), we can't really call them "Japanese" and such.

Another example would be the 4 nations from Avatar. Those with darker skin would probably be referred to as from Water Tribe. If you have brown hair, green eyes, and somewhat tanned skin, you'd probably be from the Earth Nation. Not Inuit and Chinese/Korean.

I don't know, that's just my two cents.

Edited by shadow_Uzumaki, 07 September 2012 - 02:37 AM.

[Branden]

I always tried to imagine that they fit in no ethnic group whatsoever, but the problem is their skin tone is always Caucasian. I just can't get that out of my head when I think about where they are from. Even when I look at some of the more obviously culturally influenced characters I still get the vibe that they are Caucasian just because of their skin tone. Now one could argue that they don't all have a strictly Caucasian skin tone as seen below, but should that mean anyone who has a slightly different skin tone is Asian?


First off there is Deidara, who obviously has a Caucasian skin tone.



Then we have Naruto who has the same affect.



Then there's Jiraiya who again has a similer skin tone.



As you can see these skin tones are getting lighter and lighter, Sakura is just past the borderline to my "that's obviously a Caucasian skin tone" list, in favor of Caucasian. Maybe it's the pink hair....



I could list more but really these are just the first ones that come to mind. If your wondering why Deidara is up there, it's because he's my favorite character

Now, back to the point. There are characters that have an obvious skin tone, and those who have a "maybe it's Asian maybe it's not" vibe. My conclusian was this : I am certain that some of the characters are Caucasian based on there skin tone. I can conclude that since no evidence suggests that the more "up for interpretation" characters are of a different nationality, they must share the same basic feature of Caucasian skin.

Anyways, I've rambled enough, I hope you get my point now. Tried to use more pictures then words if that helped.


EDIT: grammar fail

Edited by Branden, 07 September 2012 - 09:29 AM.

[Nefertieh]

Skin tone is not a good indicator of ethnicity. People with descendants who live far from the equator all have "white" skin, therefore white skin is not an exclusive Caucasian trait at all. Combined skin, hair and eye colour would be a better justification. The typical Asian has very similar skin colour to Caucasians, not to mention a person's skin colour can change due to sun exposure.

[Branden]

Skin tone is not a good indicator of ethnicity. People with descendants who live far from the equator all have "white" skin, therefore white skin is not an exclusive Caucasian trait at all. Combined skin, hair and eye colour would be a better justification. The typical Asian has very similar skin colour to Caucasians, not to mention a person's skin colour can change due to sun exposure.

well in that case, I claim lack of information!

[kirabook]

Eh, I don't really associate ethnicity with skin tone. I go more for facial traits, behavior, or culture.

Naruto is its own world and I imagine there are different races in Naruto. There isn't really "japanese", but Konoha happens to have a lot of Japanese influence. If I go by what 'races' there actually are, it would probably be Hyuuga 'race' or Uchiha 'race', etc. And for the darker skin tones, they probably have their own sections within their location that make them different 'races' as well. But overall, I imagine all the characters to be of asian decent (though there probably isn't any asians in Naruto specifically) before I consider them to be Caucasian.

You probably can't help but think of them that way because that is your world view or how you grew up to be. If someone has a light skin tone and blond hair, they must be Caucasian.

Edited by kirabook, 07 September 2012 - 03:51 PM.

[sushi.]

^yes, the Cacausian appereance is very wide, it varies.

Another example would be the 4 nations from Avatar. Those with darker skin would probably be referred to as from Water Tribe. If you have brown hair, green eyes, and somewhat tanned skin, you'd probably be from the Earth Nation. Not Inuit and Chinese/Korean.

I think the creators once said that they imagined the people from the Earth Kingdom was Chinese, Fire Nation - Japanese, Air Nomads - Tibetian and Water Tribe - Inuits.

[James S Cassidy]

1. We can't use the term "Americanized" because technically that includes Canada, Latin America, Hawaii, and South American with all having different racial profiles. Can't really say Asian either because what about Russians? Russia is apart of Asia too, so wouldn't Russians be Asians as well? What about the people from India that look more Middle Eastern?

That being said, Naruto is more of a melting pot manga. It has everything from Caucasians (Can't spell Caucasian without "asian"), Japanese, Chinese, Black (African or otherwise), Middle Eastern, etc.

Naruto is white. I am sorry, but it is not just in skin color.
Sakura is white a well. Again, not just in skin color, but other stuff
Sasuke is more Japanese.
Hinata is also Japanese or Chinese perhaps.
Gaara is definitely Middle Eastern
Killer Bee is black.

So that is how I see Naruto. Just a melting pot of cultures.

This also has come into question about Avatar: The last Airbender and how people complained that the live action version wasn't primarily Japanese. The answer is that the story has it's own rules about cultural differences, but science can help clear this up. Biology shows that people differ not by nationality, but where your genetics started. While genes can change, where did it all start?

Caucasians have smaller nasal passages, with long noses. This is because the people that started this lived in mountain ranges where air is thin. So the nose takes in less air to preserve the person and can function with it. Also, since cloud and snow storm cover is assured on mountains, they get less sun thus light skin. Darker hair is usually the norm, but remember genes get mixed over time.

Darker skin is based on location as well. Lots of sun and heat. Sun gives them darker skin, air is heavier due to heat so they need short stubby noses with big nostrils to take in the heavy air and such etc etc. Then you got many different middle ground areas and cross breeding over many generations and you got what we have today.

Also, it is quite possible for Caucasians to be born into Asian Japanese families and and middle eastern families and so on and so forth. There is many ways that biology can mess with the norm and you get many different type of people just from one cultural area. So is Naruto Caucasian? Possibly. I don't know if Kishi did it on purpose or not but he very well could be.

One could argue that all characters are Japanese simply based on that anime is made in Japan, but we know they CAN draw people more Japanese than normal. Look at Sasuke. Look at Hinata. Look at the difference between two characters like Shinji and Asuka with her being from Germany.

Look at Black Butler. It is supposed to be set in England, but they look Japanese. Is that culturally right? So, no not every anime will have Asian characters even if they look Asian.

I would really like to think that the Japanese want to make a point that the reason why their characters don't really follow a set pattern is because it is better to make up your own world with your own rules, then to follow the rules of the real world. I also like to think that Japanese have a good idea in saying that cultural, racial, and physical attributes really don't matter.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 07 September 2012 - 04:12 PM.